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Myself and a few friends want to walk the Cullin ridge sometime 2017 but arent sure whether to get a guide or not.
All of us are used to full day walks, scrambling and climbing up to VS, as a group weve walked Curved ridge in glen coe, and Im used to fell and ultra runs up to 80 miles.
How difficult is it to navigate and traverse, Ive looked at pictures and maps but dont know what its like to do.
Im sure you good folk will have some good tips for us.
All of us are used to full day walks, scrambling and climbing up to VS, as a group weve walked Curved ridge in glen coe, and Im used to fell and ultra runs up to 80 miles.
How difficult is it to navigate and traverse, Ive looked at pictures and maps but dont know what its like to do.
Im sure you good folk will have some good tips for us.
In reply to Pesda potato:
The Rockfax mini-guide http://www.rockfax.com/climbing-guides/miniguides/skye-ridge/ is a good start, there's a couple of articles on here http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1024 http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4409 and of course countless discussions on the forums.
Good info to start with.
Personally, I know that it's a great place, but it rains a lot.
The Rockfax mini-guide http://www.rockfax.com/climbing-guides/miniguides/skye-ridge/ is a good start, there's a couple of articles on here http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1024 http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4409 and of course countless discussions on the forums.
Good info to start with.
Personally, I know that it's a great place, but it rains a lot.
Post edited at 23:28
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In reply to Pesda potato:
Navigation is straight forward if the weather is clear, but a bit problematic in mist as you can't use a compass. When I did it (in 1983), the mist came in just after the TD gap, we managed on dead reckoning using the contours, but went off course a couple of times (fairly obvious - you start going down when you know you should be going up). The BMC Harveys Cullin map looks superb, I would think that with that and GPS instead of a compass, you should be fine if you're a reasonably competent navigator.
Navigation is straight forward if the weather is clear, but a bit problematic in mist as you can't use a compass. When I did it (in 1983), the mist came in just after the TD gap, we managed on dead reckoning using the contours, but went off course a couple of times (fairly obvious - you start going down when you know you should be going up). The BMC Harveys Cullin map looks superb, I would think that with that and GPS instead of a compass, you should be fine if you're a reasonably competent navigator.
In reply to Pesda potato:
There isn't anything on the mainland that compares with the Cullin for complexity and difficulty. Make no mistake, this is the most physically and mentally demanding ridge in the UK. I went to the Cullins 5 times over consecutive years before I finally cracked that nut and did it from end to end in one go. And only then after chatting and keeping up with a guide who had his own clients with him.
If you only have a limited time and don't want to return for repeated attempts then a guide will give you your best chance of completing from end to end in one go, weather permitting.
Mike Lates is the man to help you out.
http://skyeguides.co.uk/your-guides/mike-lates/
> How difficult is it to navigate and traverse, Ive looked at pictures and maps but dont know what its like to do.
There isn't anything on the mainland that compares with the Cullin for complexity and difficulty. Make no mistake, this is the most physically and mentally demanding ridge in the UK. I went to the Cullins 5 times over consecutive years before I finally cracked that nut and did it from end to end in one go. And only then after chatting and keeping up with a guide who had his own clients with him.
If you only have a limited time and don't want to return for repeated attempts then a guide will give you your best chance of completing from end to end in one go, weather permitting.
Mike Lates is the man to help you out.
http://skyeguides.co.uk/your-guides/mike-lates/
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In reply to Pesda potato:
I'll chip in with a little more, well, cautious advice.
In Mike's latest edition of the SMC Skye guide, he suggests at least 6 visits to the ridge to familiarise yourself before attempting a traverse, and I would wholeheartedly agree. I had many more than that, as well as many hundreds of Scottish mountain days, scrambling and walking in all conditions, before I attempted it. I also had done all the major sections individually, except the TD Gap and Naismith's onto the Tooth. Sections like between Bannachdich and An Dorus are a real challenge in clag, let alone Bidean to An Caisteal, and most folks haven't even heard of them!
It still took us the guidebook 16hrs, and that was with a bivvy too, and in good conditions. The concentration required is enormous, let alone the physical effort. These guys that do it in incredible times are world-class mountain athletes!
IMO, if you want to get to know the best mountain range in the UK intimately, get up here, put in the hours, pick your conditions, and it'll be in the bag. If you have limited time, may have to do it in less than optimum conditions, or just see it as a tick to be done, get a guide. The chances of you doing it un-guided first time are very slim indeed. At best, you'll be picking your way off Bannachdich, wet, knackered and wide-eyed. At worst..............
Sorry to sound dramatic, but it's simply unlike anything else you may have done (unless you have Alpine experience), and it's worth the time investment.
Good luck, and I hope it's a success - It's still one of my best ever mountain experiences
I'll chip in with a little more, well, cautious advice.
In Mike's latest edition of the SMC Skye guide, he suggests at least 6 visits to the ridge to familiarise yourself before attempting a traverse, and I would wholeheartedly agree. I had many more than that, as well as many hundreds of Scottish mountain days, scrambling and walking in all conditions, before I attempted it. I also had done all the major sections individually, except the TD Gap and Naismith's onto the Tooth. Sections like between Bannachdich and An Dorus are a real challenge in clag, let alone Bidean to An Caisteal, and most folks haven't even heard of them!
It still took us the guidebook 16hrs, and that was with a bivvy too, and in good conditions. The concentration required is enormous, let alone the physical effort. These guys that do it in incredible times are world-class mountain athletes!
IMO, if you want to get to know the best mountain range in the UK intimately, get up here, put in the hours, pick your conditions, and it'll be in the bag. If you have limited time, may have to do it in less than optimum conditions, or just see it as a tick to be done, get a guide. The chances of you doing it un-guided first time are very slim indeed. At best, you'll be picking your way off Bannachdich, wet, knackered and wide-eyed. At worst..............
Sorry to sound dramatic, but it's simply unlike anything else you may have done (unless you have Alpine experience), and it's worth the time investment.
Good luck, and I hope it's a success - It's still one of my best ever mountain experiences
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In reply to Pesda potato:
The Cicerone scrambles in Skye guide is very detailed and relatively foolproof.
That said, although I've been on the ridge plenty of times, they are probably the only hills in Britain that I wouldn't bother with in bad weather.
The Cicerone scrambles in Skye guide is very detailed and relatively foolproof.
That said, although I've been on the ridge plenty of times, they are probably the only hills in Britain that I wouldn't bother with in bad weather.
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In reply to alan moore:
Absolutely. If doing the ridge is a big deal for you, doing it in poor visibility would seem a bit pointless.
> That said, although I've been on the ridge plenty of times, they are probably the only hills in Britain that I wouldn't bother with in bad weather.
Absolutely. If doing the ridge is a big deal for you, doing it in poor visibility would seem a bit pointless.
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In reply to Pesda potato:
I echo the comments about the Ridge being a tough proposition. Certainly the hardest (in terms of effort) long mountaineering expedition I've done in the UK, but fantastically satisfying.
The biggest factor is being there when the right weather window of opportunity occurs.. I had about half a dozen attempts aborted by bad weather over the 20 years or so before I finally did it, not helped by the fact that living in the South of England meant I had to take pot luck on the weather when booking holidays in advance.
The technical sections should be within your comfort zone, but they are serious, particularly when you are carrying a pack. All of your party needs to be comfortable with exposure and able to keep moving at a good pace solo a lot of the time on Diff to V Diff rock. We only roped up for the few technical pitches such as the TD Gap, Inn Pin etc
Navigation is not always straightforward, there are subsidiary ridges from time to time which can lead you off the main route, and a magnetic compass doesn't work. Navigation becomes particularly testing if the clag comes down.
It's very satisfying to self guide, which is what my mate and I did, but as others have said you will increase your chances by employing a guide, although even he/she won't be able to control the weather! As John Stewart says "it's a great place, but it rains a lot"
I don't know Mike Lates, but he posts on here from time to time and comes across as a good sensible bloke. I've read good reports from those who have used him.
I echo the comments about the Ridge being a tough proposition. Certainly the hardest (in terms of effort) long mountaineering expedition I've done in the UK, but fantastically satisfying.
The biggest factor is being there when the right weather window of opportunity occurs.. I had about half a dozen attempts aborted by bad weather over the 20 years or so before I finally did it, not helped by the fact that living in the South of England meant I had to take pot luck on the weather when booking holidays in advance.
The technical sections should be within your comfort zone, but they are serious, particularly when you are carrying a pack. All of your party needs to be comfortable with exposure and able to keep moving at a good pace solo a lot of the time on Diff to V Diff rock. We only roped up for the few technical pitches such as the TD Gap, Inn Pin etc
Navigation is not always straightforward, there are subsidiary ridges from time to time which can lead you off the main route, and a magnetic compass doesn't work. Navigation becomes particularly testing if the clag comes down.
It's very satisfying to self guide, which is what my mate and I did, but as others have said you will increase your chances by employing a guide, although even he/she won't be able to control the weather! As John Stewart says "it's a great place, but it rains a lot"
I don't know Mike Lates, but he posts on here from time to time and comes across as a good sensible bloke. I've read good reports from those who have used him.
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In reply to Pesda potato:
It basically boils down to:
-do it in good weather. Yes, there is good weather on Skye. You just have to be flexible enough to travel up to Skye. Both times I did it this summer we made the call on the Thursday based on forecast and shot up to Skye.
-do it over two days. Yes a one day traverse simplifies things and is easy going but any mistakes may cost you the traverse in terms of time.
-don't do it at the height of summer where you're gonna need to drink lots.
- you definately don't need a guide if you do your research. Rockfax mini guide is very handy to have on the day.
It basically boils down to:
-do it in good weather. Yes, there is good weather on Skye. You just have to be flexible enough to travel up to Skye. Both times I did it this summer we made the call on the Thursday based on forecast and shot up to Skye.
-do it over two days. Yes a one day traverse simplifies things and is easy going but any mistakes may cost you the traverse in terms of time.
-don't do it at the height of summer where you're gonna need to drink lots.
- you definately don't need a guide if you do your research. Rockfax mini guide is very handy to have on the day.
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In reply to Pesda potato:
It would be a decent plan a recce trip at least to do a couple of test pieces up there, say Pinnacle Ridge on Sgurr nan Gillean or the circuit of Coire Lagan from Sgurr Sgumain taking in An Stac (which is a magnificent scramble if used to reach the In Pin doing the circuit anti clockwise) and the In Pin on the way round.
These would give you a flavour of the place and give you more information as to whether you want to explore more before doing the entire ridge or just go for it.
It would be a decent plan a recce trip at least to do a couple of test pieces up there, say Pinnacle Ridge on Sgurr nan Gillean or the circuit of Coire Lagan from Sgurr Sgumain taking in An Stac (which is a magnificent scramble if used to reach the In Pin doing the circuit anti clockwise) and the In Pin on the way round.
These would give you a flavour of the place and give you more information as to whether you want to explore more before doing the entire ridge or just go for it.
In reply to Trangia:
met him many times on the Ridge to speak to and his clients have always looked as if they're having a good day. top bloke, once we met on the ridge and combined ropes and did the free space descent from the Tooth which is unforgettable
met him many times on the Ridge to speak to and his clients have always looked as if they're having a good day. top bloke, once we met on the ridge and combined ropes and did the free space descent from the Tooth which is unforgettable
In reply to Pesda potato:
Do it yourself, is one of the best adventures in the UK and you get the most from doing it yourself!
Trying to get up for a weekend is possible, but there is so much to do in that area that a week or two wouldn't be wasted, I'd be looking at May, before the wee gits come out and there are blue sky days...
I'd recommend it from loch coruisk, is better than the walk in the morning and doubling back that you do from Glen brittle.
Do it yourself, is one of the best adventures in the UK and you get the most from doing it yourself!
Trying to get up for a weekend is possible, but there is so much to do in that area that a week or two wouldn't be wasted, I'd be looking at May, before the wee gits come out and there are blue sky days...
I'd recommend it from loch coruisk, is better than the walk in the morning and doubling back that you do from Glen brittle.
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In reply to Pesda potato:
Don't get why people want to do it in a "oner" seams like you'll not have chance to enjoy it for what it is just to compleat a challenge that someone else has come up with
Don't get why people want to do it in a "oner" seams like you'll not have chance to enjoy it for what it is just to compleat a challenge that someone else has come up with
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In reply to Mark Kemball:
Yes you can use a compass. It's accurate in at least 90 percent of occasions, and way better than guessing. Just be cautious of what it says. I've never had a duff reading in corries and slopes, really only on summits. And if you move position and watch whether the compass shifts, plus holding it away from the rock, then it works fine. But I wouldn't say the navigation is straightforward even in the clear.
> Navigation is straight forward if the weather is clear, but a bit problematic in mist as you can't use a compass.
Yes you can use a compass. It's accurate in at least 90 percent of occasions, and way better than guessing. Just be cautious of what it says. I've never had a duff reading in corries and slopes, really only on summits. And if you move position and watch whether the compass shifts, plus holding it away from the rock, then it works fine. But I wouldn't say the navigation is straightforward even in the clear.
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In reply to the power:
some good advice there all, i expected a mixed response but its all useful thanks.
The Power - first, learn to spell and second just because you dont understand why somebody wants to do something different to you doesnt mean its not something others would enjoy.
some good advice there all, i expected a mixed response but its all useful thanks.
The Power - first, learn to spell and second just because you dont understand why somebody wants to do something different to you doesnt mean its not something others would enjoy.
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In reply to JohnnyW:
For some incautious advice - just have at it, man.
My first attempt on the ridge was October 2015, was going for a 7 hour solo traverse but only made it about as far as Sgurr Alistair. Route finding is the real challenge, plus the drive up from Manchester and about 3 hours sleep probably didn't help much.
Can't wait to go back.
> I'll chip in with a little more, well, cautious advice.
For some incautious advice - just have at it, man.
My first attempt on the ridge was October 2015, was going for a 7 hour solo traverse but only made it about as far as Sgurr Alistair. Route finding is the real challenge, plus the drive up from Manchester and about 3 hours sleep probably didn't help much.
Can't wait to go back.
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In reply to Pesda potato:
You can always plan doing it over 3 days if the weather is good. Much less time pressure. That's how I used to guide it. Easier for bivvying near water sources and you barely need any extra equipment compared to 2 days. If there's a big group of you, a guide will limit the number, otherwise the ropework doesn't work (or have 2 guides). The problem with a guide is that you fix the days ahead of the weather forecast (and if it's wet, you won't get along), but otherwise your chances increase a lot.
You can always plan doing it over 3 days if the weather is good. Much less time pressure. That's how I used to guide it. Easier for bivvying near water sources and you barely need any extra equipment compared to 2 days. If there's a big group of you, a guide will limit the number, otherwise the ropework doesn't work (or have 2 guides). The problem with a guide is that you fix the days ahead of the weather forecast (and if it's wet, you won't get along), but otherwise your chances increase a lot.
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In reply to the power:
Why do you climb? Wouldn't it be more sensible to just walk round to the top?
> Don't get why people want to do it in a "oner" seams like you'll not have chance to enjoy it for what it is just to compleat a challenge that someone else has come up with
Why do you climb? Wouldn't it be more sensible to just walk round to the top?
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In reply to Pesda potato:
Sorry my spelling isn't up to your standards and also I'd like to apologise for having a opinion different to yours
> The Power - first, learn to spell and second just because you dont understand why somebody wants to do something different to you doesnt mean its not something others would enjoy.
Sorry my spelling isn't up to your standards and also I'd like to apologise for having a opinion different to yours
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In reply to Andy Nisbet:
I went without a compass as it couldn't be relied on. My brother, who spent a lot of time up there in the 80s, thought it would be a good idea to take a compass up to try and map the local magnetic variations. He found it impossible - massive variations over a small distance.
I've only done the ridge once, back in '83, but we went for it without doing any prior checking out. The mist came in but we managed to complete the traverse. I'm OK at navigating but not brilliant, so on that basis, I don't think navigation can be that tricky.
I went without a compass as it couldn't be relied on. My brother, who spent a lot of time up there in the 80s, thought it would be a good idea to take a compass up to try and map the local magnetic variations. He found it impossible - massive variations over a small distance.
I've only done the ridge once, back in '83, but we went for it without doing any prior checking out. The mist came in but we managed to complete the traverse. I'm OK at navigating but not brilliant, so on that basis, I don't think navigation can be that tricky.
In reply to Pesda potato:
If you're fit, competent and realistic then go and have an explore. You might be successful, you might not. Either way you'll have a grand time.
As mentioned above, a good weather window makes for an infinitely more relaxed and enjoyable time.
If you're fit, competent and realistic then go and have an explore. You might be successful, you might not. Either way you'll have a grand time.
As mentioned above, a good weather window makes for an infinitely more relaxed and enjoyable time.
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In reply to gavmac:
I think this is the best thing said on the whole thread.
You might manage it first try, you might not.
As long as you're careful, you're unlikely to regret getting out on it; weather permitting, you should manage to get something great done.
It's different from anything else in the UK, more like an easy Alpine rock ridge, I'd say (but with better rock and no glaciers!)
> If you're fit, competent and realistic then go and have an explore. You might be successful, you might not. Either way you'll have a grand time.
I think this is the best thing said on the whole thread.
You might manage it first try, you might not.
As long as you're careful, you're unlikely to regret getting out on it; weather permitting, you should manage to get something great done.
It's different from anything else in the UK, more like an easy Alpine rock ridge, I'd say (but with better rock and no glaciers!)
Post edited at 12:13
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In reply to Mark Kemball:
All I can say is that I've used a compass on the Ridge a lot and find it very useful.
All I can say is that I've used a compass on the Ridge a lot and find it very useful.
> I went without a compass as it couldn't be relied on. My brother, who spent a lot of time up there in the 80s, thought it would be a good idea to take a compass up to try and map the local magnetic variations. He found it impossible - massive variations over a small distance.
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In reply to Mark Kemball:
It doesn't really require much navigation (as usually thought of), rather route finding ability.
> I don't think navigation can be that tricky.
It doesn't really require much navigation (as usually thought of), rather route finding ability.
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In reply to Pesda potato:
The SMC Skye Scrambles is worth it's weight in gold if you decide to bail on a tricky section (like I did!), descending a grade 2/3 scramble is much nicer when you have a map and description of the route!
Good luck!
The SMC Skye Scrambles is worth it's weight in gold if you decide to bail on a tricky section (like I did!), descending a grade 2/3 scramble is much nicer when you have a map and description of the route!
Good luck!
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In reply to the power:
I certainly didn't consider that I was beating myself up when I did the Ridge. It was a challenge. OK it wasn't a walk in the park, but I enjoyed every minute of it, and if I was younger I'd love to do it again. I learned a few lessons on it, in particular take more water and/or a straw to suck water out from crevices in the rock.
Isn't our sport all about setting personal challenges, and enjoying them?
> I'm not saying to not do the ridge but why beat your self up ?
I certainly didn't consider that I was beating myself up when I did the Ridge. It was a challenge. OK it wasn't a walk in the park, but I enjoyed every minute of it, and if I was younger I'd love to do it again. I learned a few lessons on it, in particular take more water and/or a straw to suck water out from crevices in the rock.
Isn't our sport all about setting personal challenges, and enjoying them?
In reply to Pesda potato:
>"arent sure whether to get a guide or not"
In view of your limited general experience, absence of specific knowledge of the route, size of group, and the vagaries of the weather, I'd say your chances of a successful single day push, unguided, are pretty low. Guided, your chances will increase considerably but even then you still need to be lucky with the weather.
I sort of agree with the guys who say, take more time.
I suppose depends on how much time you are willing to spend on the project.
If you were there for the week, then you could recky sections, install water/food dumps and have a few days weather wise to pick from, for the actual push.
If you only have time to be on Skye for a few days, then I'd suggest you set out expecting to take two full days with a bivi.
To give you an idea, I took a day and a half (29 hrs inc bivi, glen brittle to slig), in perfect weather, with lots of climbing/scrambling experience behind me, and having previously done what must add up to about 70% of the ridge, while ticking all it's munros and most of the technical sections.
Though expect your hill running might be more advantageous than my sport climbing, fitness wise.
As others have said, route finding is more of an issue than navigation, particularly if you are tooled up with GPS.
>"arent sure whether to get a guide or not"
In view of your limited general experience, absence of specific knowledge of the route, size of group, and the vagaries of the weather, I'd say your chances of a successful single day push, unguided, are pretty low. Guided, your chances will increase considerably but even then you still need to be lucky with the weather.
I sort of agree with the guys who say, take more time.
I suppose depends on how much time you are willing to spend on the project.
If you were there for the week, then you could recky sections, install water/food dumps and have a few days weather wise to pick from, for the actual push.
If you only have time to be on Skye for a few days, then I'd suggest you set out expecting to take two full days with a bivi.
To give you an idea, I took a day and a half (29 hrs inc bivi, glen brittle to slig), in perfect weather, with lots of climbing/scrambling experience behind me, and having previously done what must add up to about 70% of the ridge, while ticking all it's munros and most of the technical sections.
Though expect your hill running might be more advantageous than my sport climbing, fitness wise.
As others have said, route finding is more of an issue than navigation, particularly if you are tooled up with GPS.
Post edited at 14:25
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In reply to Trangia:
The once I've used a compass on the Cuillin was at the top of Sron na Ciche to locate the Sgumain Stone Shoot in clag. With a map, and guidebook, and concentration to hand the compass was useful, taken with caution. It swung around by up to 90 degrees in short sections, only to then bounce back to normal shortly after. Pretty stunning.
Rest of the time I've just been up in essentially clear conditions.
The once I've used a compass on the Cuillin was at the top of Sron na Ciche to locate the Sgumain Stone Shoot in clag. With a map, and guidebook, and concentration to hand the compass was useful, taken with caution. It swung around by up to 90 degrees in short sections, only to then bounce back to normal shortly after. Pretty stunning.
Rest of the time I've just been up in essentially clear conditions.
In reply to kwoods:
I once tried to do exactly that with a compass. After half an hour or so we found ourselves back exactly where we had started! I've not bothered carrying one since.
> The once I've used a compass on the Cuillin was at the top of Sron na Ciche to locate the Sgumain Stone Shoot in clag.
I once tried to do exactly that with a compass. After half an hour or so we found ourselves back exactly where we had started! I've not bothered carrying one since.
In reply to petestack:
and also like 'arent' , 'weve', Ive, 'Im', 'dont', 'its' and 'glen coe'!?
> What, like 'Cuillin'?
and also like 'arent' , 'weve', Ive, 'Im', 'dont', 'its' and 'glen coe'!?
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In reply to the power:
Andy Hyslop (link to guide above) recommends the traverse in a day because of poor bivvy sites, changeable weather, and travelling light.
> Don't get why people want to do it in a "oner" seams like you'll not have chance to enjoy it for what it is just to compleat a challenge that someone else has come up with
Andy Hyslop (link to guide above) recommends the traverse in a day because of poor bivvy sites, changeable weather, and travelling light.
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In reply to Jim Hamilton:
Lots of perfectly good bivi sites and I would say a bivi adds to the pleasure, both in itself and to take time pressure off. Minimal summer bivi kit does not add all that much weight.
> Andy Hyslop (link to guide above) recommends the traverse in a day because of poor bivvy sites, changeable weather, and travelling light.
Lots of perfectly good bivi sites and I would say a bivi adds to the pleasure, both in itself and to take time pressure off. Minimal summer bivi kit does not add all that much weight.
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In reply to Jim Hamilton:
No matter will you hire a guide or not it will mostly depend on the weather. On my first visit to the area for 10 days it was literally pissing rain every day and clouds were so low it was a no go. It took me 3 years to decide to give Sky another try and I got 5 rain days out of 7.
GPS helps a lot. Compass as mentioned by many is useless because of iron. In sunny weather it's easy to navigate with just a map. But it can change super fast.
A day before climb you can stash bivi gear midway. Requires a bit of logistics, but nothing extraordinary.
However I would go for a day traverse personally if the party is used to 14 - 16 hour days.
No matter will you hire a guide or not it will mostly depend on the weather. On my first visit to the area for 10 days it was literally pissing rain every day and clouds were so low it was a no go. It took me 3 years to decide to give Sky another try and I got 5 rain days out of 7.
GPS helps a lot. Compass as mentioned by many is useless because of iron. In sunny weather it's easy to navigate with just a map. But it can change super fast.
> Andy Hyslop (link to guide above) recommends the traverse in a day because of poor bivvy sites, changeable weather, and travelling light.
A day before climb you can stash bivi gear midway. Requires a bit of logistics, but nothing extraordinary.
However I would go for a day traverse personally if the party is used to 14 - 16 hour days.
Post edited at 16:20
In reply to Robert Durran:
We ended up doing it over two separate days, a Wednesday and a Friday, due to weather, and although both days were brilliant, I was pretty disappointed to miss out on bivvying up there, would be pretty special I think.
> Lots of perfectly good bivi sites and I would say a bivi adds to the pleasure, both in itself and to take time pressure off. Minimal summer bivi kit does not add all that much weight.
We ended up doing it over two separate days, a Wednesday and a Friday, due to weather, and although both days were brilliant, I was pretty disappointed to miss out on bivvying up there, would be pretty special I think.
In reply to Pesda potato:
'Not' I'd say but that's my personal preference . To do the ridge requires huge self-reliance and confidence in your mountaineering skills to do what is probably the best mountain expedition in the country. For me using a guide would be handing over hard bits like route finding, planning, the climbing bits ie the self-reliance bits and I wouldn't feel that I'd achieved what I set out to do.
'Not' I'd say but that's my personal preference . To do the ridge requires huge self-reliance and confidence in your mountaineering skills to do what is probably the best mountain expedition in the country. For me using a guide would be handing over hard bits like route finding, planning, the climbing bits ie the self-reliance bits and I wouldn't feel that I'd achieved what I set out to do.
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In reply to Pesda potato:
It sounds like you have a lot of the right things going for you. If you can make multiple trips up next year why not plan a n early summer trip to familiarise yourself (it sounds like you have not visited the ridge before). If you can reach some of the main summits and climb or even just get close to some of the pitches you might need to rope up on - then you will know what it's about. And hopefully later in the year once the midges relent a bit, you'll get a clear spell and can make a proper attempt with or without a guide. Hope you manage it as it's a great project to try.
It sounds like you have a lot of the right things going for you. If you can make multiple trips up next year why not plan a n early summer trip to familiarise yourself (it sounds like you have not visited the ridge before). If you can reach some of the main summits and climb or even just get close to some of the pitches you might need to rope up on - then you will know what it's about. And hopefully later in the year once the midges relent a bit, you'll get a clear spell and can make a proper attempt with or without a guide. Hope you manage it as it's a great project to try.
1
In reply to Bulls Crack:
I'm glad someone said that. We wanted the interesting bits of the ridge (nav and climbing) effectively onsight so waiting for a weather window was key (having been temporarily lost in clag around the top of Sron na Ciche too often with a whirling compass).
A day traverse was our only option.... too many injuries to carry extra weight. We couldnt run, so got fit by climbing volumes of lower grade stuff. It was telling the day we did it there were lots of aspirants we overtook who had bivied on a two day attempt and when we slowed to a snails pace near the end, due to my knackered knee, no one came back past us even though it was dark by the end. Anyone telling you the extra weight isn't important with all that complex ascent and descent is a bit weird in my view: I was worried enough with the weight I had with some of the loose scrambling descents.
Bob Wightman's advice was spot on.
http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/gear.php?p=skye_ridge_gear_tips etc...
Nav is dreadful up there in clouds and in such conditions a compass is useful but maybe needs the experience of an Andy Nisbet to get things right.
I'm glad someone said that. We wanted the interesting bits of the ridge (nav and climbing) effectively onsight so waiting for a weather window was key (having been temporarily lost in clag around the top of Sron na Ciche too often with a whirling compass).
A day traverse was our only option.... too many injuries to carry extra weight. We couldnt run, so got fit by climbing volumes of lower grade stuff. It was telling the day we did it there were lots of aspirants we overtook who had bivied on a two day attempt and when we slowed to a snails pace near the end, due to my knackered knee, no one came back past us even though it was dark by the end. Anyone telling you the extra weight isn't important with all that complex ascent and descent is a bit weird in my view: I was worried enough with the weight I had with some of the loose scrambling descents.
Bob Wightman's advice was spot on.
http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/gear.php?p=skye_ridge_gear_tips etc...
Nav is dreadful up there in clouds and in such conditions a compass is useful but maybe needs the experience of an Andy Nisbet to get things right.
In reply to Bulls Crack:
I'm glad someone said that. We wanted the interesting bits of the ridge (nav and climbing) effectively onsight so waiting for a weather window was key (having been temporarily lost in clag around the top of Sron na Ciche too often with a whirling compass).
A day traverse was our only option.... too many injuries to carry extra weight. We couldnt run, so got fit by climbing volumes of lower grade stuff. It was telling the day we did it there were lots of aspirants we overtook who had bivied on a two day attempt and when we slowed to a snails pace near the end, due to my knackered knee, no one came back past us even though it was dark by the end. Anyone telling you the extra weight isn't important with all that complex ascent and descent is a bit weird in my view: I was worried enough with the weight I had with some of the loose scrambling descents.
Bob Wightman's advice was spot on.
http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/gear.php?p=skye_ridge_gear_tips etc...
Nav is dreadful up there in clouds and in such conditions a compass is useful but maybe needs the experience of an Andy Nisbet to get things right.
I'm glad someone said that. We wanted the interesting bits of the ridge (nav and climbing) effectively onsight so waiting for a weather window was key (having been temporarily lost in clag around the top of Sron na Ciche too often with a whirling compass).
A day traverse was our only option.... too many injuries to carry extra weight. We couldnt run, so got fit by climbing volumes of lower grade stuff. It was telling the day we did it there were lots of aspirants we overtook who had bivied on a two day attempt and when we slowed to a snails pace near the end, due to my knackered knee, no one came back past us even though it was dark by the end. Anyone telling you the extra weight isn't important with all that complex ascent and descent is a bit weird in my view: I was worried enough with the weight I had with some of the loose scrambling descents.
Bob Wightman's advice was spot on.
http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/gear.php?p=skye_ridge_gear_tips etc...
Nav is dreadful up there in clouds and in such conditions a compass is useful but maybe needs the experience of an Andy Nisbet to get things right.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Agreed on both counts. We found a splendid grassy site just off the ridge shortly before Collies Ledge. The weight of a lightweight sleeping bag, bivy bag and three quarter length karimat was minimal compared to the extra comfort enabling me to sleep. We didn't bother with a cooker or cooking gear to keep weight down.
> Lots of perfectly good bivi sites and I would say a bivi adds to the pleasure, both in itself and to take time pressure off. Minimal summer bivi kit does not add all that much weight.
Agreed on both counts. We found a splendid grassy site just off the ridge shortly before Collies Ledge. The weight of a lightweight sleeping bag, bivy bag and three quarter length karimat was minimal compared to the extra comfort enabling me to sleep. We didn't bother with a cooker or cooking gear to keep weight down.
In reply to Trangia:
Glen Coe is correct (or would be with the capitals). It's Glen Coe for the glen and Glencoe for the village... same rule as basically any glen (or loch) with a settlement of the same name. For example:
Glen Coe (glen), Glencoe (village)
Glen Finnan (glen), Glenfinnan (village)
Loch Carron (loch), Lochcarron (village)
Loch Inver (loch), Lochinver (village)
etc.
> and also like 'arent' , 'weve', Ive, 'Im', 'dont', 'its' and 'glen coe'!?
Glen Coe is correct (or would be with the capitals). It's Glen Coe for the glen and Glencoe for the village... same rule as basically any glen (or loch) with a settlement of the same name. For example:
Glen Coe (glen), Glencoe (village)
Glen Finnan (glen), Glenfinnan (village)
Loch Carron (loch), Lochcarron (village)
Loch Inver (loch), Lochinver (village)
etc.
In reply to petestack:
And it was the capitals I was referring to.
I didn't agree with what the power's post but he is entitled to his views and I felt that Pesda potato's criticism of his spelling was rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
> Glen Coe is correct (or would be with the capitals).
And it was the capitals I was referring to.
I didn't agree with what the power's post but he is entitled to his views and I felt that Pesda potato's criticism of his spelling was rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
In reply to Pesda potato:
I agree with that, my phone changed Cuillin to cullin for some reason but anyway
My apologies to The Power for being unnecessarily tart, I had a bad moment, sorry.
I agree with that, my phone changed Cuillin to cullin for some reason but anyway
My apologies to The Power for being unnecessarily tart, I had a bad moment, sorry.
8
In reply to Pesda potato:
Your partner can make or break an attempt. Last year we had a go and a regular walking partner with little climbing experience totally went to pieces towards the first southern peak and we had to talk him down. The next day myself and the GF went back up and sideways hail beat us off the top of the Innpin. That was July last year! Can't wait for another attempt.
Your partner can make or break an attempt. Last year we had a go and a regular walking partner with little climbing experience totally went to pieces towards the first southern peak and we had to talk him down. The next day myself and the GF went back up and sideways hail beat us off the top of the Innpin. That was July last year! Can't wait for another attempt.
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
sweet! its up to my friend how many of us there will be, possibly 4, the fewer the better imo. Id be happy to do solo but its a long way from north wales to recce!
UKC is a great place I can see where all of the comments are coming from, but as most things its up to the individual. Im a bit of a masochist so these things appeal to me.
sweet! its up to my friend how many of us there will be, possibly 4, the fewer the better imo. Id be happy to do solo but its a long way from north wales to recce!
UKC is a great place I can see where all of the comments are coming from, but as most things its up to the individual. Im a bit of a masochist so these things appeal to me.
Post edited at 22:28
In reply to Pesda potato:
I have been out with Mike Lates: good experience despite the foul weather.
I have been out with Mike Lates: good experience despite the foul weather.
In reply to Pesda potato:
For me the route finding and climbing is an essential element of a traverse. So I'd say try it without a guide. You may not succeed first time, but you'll have a great experience, and if you fail it'll be a great excuse to go back to Skye.
For me the route finding and climbing is an essential element of a traverse. So I'd say try it without a guide. You may not succeed first time, but you'll have a great experience, and if you fail it'll be a great excuse to go back to Skye.
1
In reply to Pesda potato:
those last two posts, perfect counterpoints!
Either way I know Ill enjoy it, the only thing that would detract would be slower less capable members of the party, although that would allow me extra time for photography....
those last two posts, perfect counterpoints!
Either way I know Ill enjoy it, the only thing that would detract would be slower less capable members of the party, although that would allow me extra time for photography....
In reply to Pesda potato:
You have four of you, you climb up to VS, and you're wondering whether you need a guide??
In that case, you do. From what you say I would put your chances of an unescorted one-day onsight ascent at 1%.
jcm
You have four of you, you climb up to VS, and you're wondering whether you need a guide??
In that case, you do. From what you say I would put your chances of an unescorted one-day onsight ascent at 1%.
jcm
2
5
In reply to Pesda potato:
the more people the more likely something will go wrong. If it were me on my own id get the guidebook and have at it and accept failure if thats what came my way
just out of curiosity have you done the route?
the more people the more likely something will go wrong. If it were me on my own id get the guidebook and have at it and accept failure if thats what came my way
just out of curiosity have you done the route?
Post edited at 01:27
In reply to Pesda potato:
Having a weekend there in april, just two of you, ie you and your most competent partner. Td gap to bannadich on day1. An dorus to as far as you can the next.
Make a mental note of what size rock gear you used etc.. come back in May when your memory is fresh for a push in one go.
Having a weekend there in april, just two of you, ie you and your most competent partner. Td gap to bannadich on day1. An dorus to as far as you can the next.
Make a mental note of what size rock gear you used etc.. come back in May when your memory is fresh for a push in one go.
In reply to Pesda potato:
I go to Skye most summers and some years I manage to do the whole ridge and sometimes only sections of it, the critical factor being the weather because in poor weather not only is the navigation more difficult but also the wet rock, which can be very slippery, slows things down considerably.
In addition to the weather the second critical factor is the ability to solo up to Diff climbs as there are long sections of exposed Grade 2 and 3 scrambling, which is a lot harder than anything else in the UK, and catches people out who aren't use to soloing and you don't want to have to put a rope on apart from the TD Gap and the Tooth.
But the best way is just to get up there and try it
I go to Skye most summers and some years I manage to do the whole ridge and sometimes only sections of it, the critical factor being the weather because in poor weather not only is the navigation more difficult but also the wet rock, which can be very slippery, slows things down considerably.
In addition to the weather the second critical factor is the ability to solo up to Diff climbs as there are long sections of exposed Grade 2 and 3 scrambling, which is a lot harder than anything else in the UK, and catches people out who aren't use to soloing and you don't want to have to put a rope on apart from the TD Gap and the Tooth.
But the best way is just to get up there and try it
1
In reply to Pesda potato:
Why not just go and have a go? If you don't do it you'll have an idea of if it is doable on your own next go or if you'd be better with a guide.
For what it's worth when I first did it it was relatively heavyweights - 2 of us with 40l pack, bivi kit, 4l of water etc. We just started lunch time one day, kept going until it got late, went to bed, then got up the next morning and finished it by early evening. At the time I was climbing VS regulalrly, (but not much harder,) and doing some fell running, (but certainly not 80mile ultras!). I hadn't done much alpine climbing, and certainly nothing as big as the ridge.
We did have superb weather though, and as people have said, that's pretty crucial.
Why not just go and have a go? If you don't do it you'll have an idea of if it is doable on your own next go or if you'd be better with a guide.
For what it's worth when I first did it it was relatively heavyweights - 2 of us with 40l pack, bivi kit, 4l of water etc. We just started lunch time one day, kept going until it got late, went to bed, then got up the next morning and finished it by early evening. At the time I was climbing VS regulalrly, (but not much harder,) and doing some fell running, (but certainly not 80mile ultras!). I hadn't done much alpine climbing, and certainly nothing as big as the ridge.
We did have superb weather though, and as people have said, that's pretty crucial.
In reply to Woolly:
I wouldn't consider it unreasonable at all to rope up for King's Chimney and the InPinn. Both soloable yes, but pitching them as one of the four wouldn't cost much more time. That and the abs off Bidein.
> In addition to the weather the second critical factor is the ability to solo up to Diff climbs as there are long sections of exposed Grade 2 and 3 scrambling, which is a lot harder than anything else in the UK, and catches people out who aren't use to soloing and you don't want to have to put a rope on apart from the TD Gap and the Tooth.
I wouldn't consider it unreasonable at all to rope up for King's Chimney and the InPinn. Both soloable yes, but pitching them as one of the four wouldn't cost much more time. That and the abs off Bidein.
1
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