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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38368144
Disgraceful, the fine should not be paid. Fifa should get their own house in order before handing out punishments like this.
Disgraceful, the fine should not be paid. Fifa should get their own house in order before handing out punishments like this.
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In reply to icnoble:
"political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images".
How do they get around nations with religious symbols on their flags?
I'm not having a go, but Israel have the star of David on their flag, isn't that a religious symbol?
I dare say there are other flags around the world with other religious symbols on them, I just can't think of any offhand.
Actually there are loads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_national_symbols
"political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images".
How do they get around nations with religious symbols on their flags?
I'm not having a go, but Israel have the star of David on their flag, isn't that a religious symbol?
I dare say there are other flags around the world with other religious symbols on them, I just can't think of any offhand.
Actually there are loads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_national_symbols
Post edited at 14:09
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In reply to icnoble:
How is it disgraceful that a fine has been implemented? You (well, the respective FAs) know the rules, had them reiterated and yet still broke them. Ergo, are punished.
If they have an issue with the rule then simply choosing to breaking it is not the solution. For example, I disagree with many speed limits near to where I live. Yet if I break them, I still expect to get punished and do not expect this to change the rule.
How is it disgraceful that a fine has been implemented? You (well, the respective FAs) know the rules, had them reiterated and yet still broke them. Ergo, are punished.
If they have an issue with the rule then simply choosing to breaking it is not the solution. For example, I disagree with many speed limits near to where I live. Yet if I break them, I still expect to get punished and do not expect this to change the rule.
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In reply to icnoble:
The FA lists one charity partner on its site and it's not the British Legion, I find that strange considering how important it obviously is to them. I also thought their claim that it is not a political symbol is undermined when every year the Tory press use Jeremy Corbyn's appearance at the Cenotaph as a stick to beat him with and also Theresa May using this particular issue as a chance to whip up some popular support.
The FA lists one charity partner on its site and it's not the British Legion, I find that strange considering how important it obviously is to them. I also thought their claim that it is not a political symbol is undermined when every year the Tory press use Jeremy Corbyn's appearance at the Cenotaph as a stick to beat him with and also Theresa May using this particular issue as a chance to whip up some popular support.
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In reply to krikoman:
It's all covered in here, enjoy.
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/51/54/30/equipment_r...
It's all covered in here, enjoy.
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/51/54/30/equipment_r...
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In reply to Tyler:
The poppy was used as a political symbol long before the current players got involved. In N.Ireland during the troubles most noticeably. I don't see how FIFA could have done anything else - its not as though the various FAs weren't warned.
The poppy was used as a political symbol long before the current players got involved. In N.Ireland during the troubles most noticeably. I don't see how FIFA could have done anything else - its not as though the various FAs weren't warned.
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They should donate the 'fines' to the United States Department of Justice prosecution team Christmas party fund.
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In reply to Tyler:
That's fair enough for the players (perhaps) but why should they have been fined for the fans wearing tee shirts and poppies.
Especially considering that most national flags appear to have some religious symbolism on them.
> It's all covered in here, enjoy.
That's fair enough for the players (perhaps) but why should they have been fined for the fans wearing tee shirts and poppies.
Especially considering that most national flags appear to have some religious symbolism on them.
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In reply to icnoble:
It's pretty stupid in it's entirety IMO, but FIFA did lay out the rules and the teams chose to ignore them so I guess they have to face the consequences.
Saying this I think it's pretty tight that Wales is being treated similarly to the rest of the home nations when the team wasn't wearing poppies but, they were drawn into it because the crowd were displaying poppies.
It's pretty stupid in it's entirety IMO, but FIFA did lay out the rules and the teams chose to ignore them so I guess they have to face the consequences.
Saying this I think it's pretty tight that Wales is being treated similarly to the rest of the home nations when the team wasn't wearing poppies but, they were drawn into it because the crowd were displaying poppies.
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In reply to icnoble:
Now that all their bribery and corruption has been unveiled, they've got to get their little perks wherever they can at the moment.
Now that all their bribery and corruption has been unveiled, they've got to get their little perks wherever they can at the moment.
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In reply to icnoble:
What's amazed me is that it is seemingly OK to fine 4 different countries completely different amounts for the same offence. More to the point why in the same match are 2 sides treated so differently?
The FAs should all say yep that's fine and pay their fines to the british legion
What's amazed me is that it is seemingly OK to fine 4 different countries completely different amounts for the same offence. More to the point why in the same match are 2 sides treated so differently?
The FAs should all say yep that's fine and pay their fines to the british legion
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In reply to krikoman:
How about the cross of St George (England, Northern Ireland)? Or the cross of St Andrew (Scotland)?
To name but 2 or 3
Turkey and Pakistan spring to mind as well.
How about the cross of St George (England, Northern Ireland)? Or the cross of St Andrew (Scotland)?
To name but 2 or 3
Turkey and Pakistan spring to mind as well.
Post edited at 17:16
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In reply to icnoble:
The poppy has nothing whatever to do with politics or religion, it transcends all of those petty issues, it is worn to honour the memory of the dead who died fighting for our freedom.
I hope home countries fans all wear poppies to every international match in the future, en masse! What would be better than thousands of England (or Wales, Scotland N.I) fans wearing national team shirts with a huge poppy where the number should be?
UP YOURS FIFA!
The poppy has nothing whatever to do with politics or religion, it transcends all of those petty issues, it is worn to honour the memory of the dead who died fighting for our freedom.
I hope home countries fans all wear poppies to every international match in the future, en masse! What would be better than thousands of England (or Wales, Scotland N.I) fans wearing national team shirts with a huge poppy where the number should be?
UP YOURS FIFA!
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In reply to cragtaff:
Self evidently not. Fans can do what they like but the representative bodies should respect the rules and concentrate on organising the football.
> The poppy has nothing whatever to do with politics or religion, it transcends all of those petty issues...
Self evidently not. Fans can do what they like but the representative bodies should respect the rules and concentrate on organising the football.
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In reply to cragtaff:
1. Thousands of England (or Wales, Scotland N.I) giving a couple quid to the British Legion instead of buying a new replica shirt.
2. The FA giving the proceeds of the match to the British Legion
3. The FA making the Red Cross a charity partner and using the celebrity of its players to educate many on the suffering that war is still visiting on people 70 years after WWII ended
4. A statement by the football family that it doesn't want to use a decent charity as a proxy to promote a xenophobic argument with other FIFA members .
> What would be better than thousands of England (or Wales, Scotland N.I) fans wearing national team shirts with a huge poppy where the number should be?
1. Thousands of England (or Wales, Scotland N.I) giving a couple quid to the British Legion instead of buying a new replica shirt.
2. The FA giving the proceeds of the match to the British Legion
3. The FA making the Red Cross a charity partner and using the celebrity of its players to educate many on the suffering that war is still visiting on people 70 years after WWII ended
4. A statement by the football family that it doesn't want to use a decent charity as a proxy to promote a xenophobic argument with other FIFA members .
> UP YOURS FIFA!
A fine sentiment with which to promote peace, well done.Post edited at 19:02
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In reply to Cú Chullain:
Or maybe to the Royal British Legion.....?
> They should donate the 'fines' to the United States Department of Justice prosecution team Christmas party fund.
Or maybe to the Royal British Legion.....?
In reply to Trangia:
I had not realised that it was originally an American custom later adopted over here.
> Or maybe to the Royal British Legion.....?
I had not realised that it was originally an American custom later adopted over here.
In reply to cragtaff:
Most wars are started by politicians.
> The poppy has nothing whatever to do with politics.
Most wars are started by politicians.
In reply to Jim C:
And it's done and finished by innocent men and women who sacrifice their lives, their livelihoods, their physical and mental states, and their families regardless of race, religion, age or gender.
The poppy is above politics
And recognises the lose of lives from a Great War, a war to end all wars and in conflicts since, because we just can't seem to learn from our mistakes.
Banning it is the political agenda.
> Most wars are started by politicians.
And it's done and finished by innocent men and women who sacrifice their lives, their livelihoods, their physical and mental states, and their families regardless of race, religion, age or gender.
The poppy is above politics
And recognises the lose of lives from a Great War, a war to end all wars and in conflicts since, because we just can't seem to learn from our mistakes.
Banning it is the political agenda.
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In reply to Bootrock:
... and therefore it is not, whatever naive idealists believe, above politics. Just associating the poppy with the 'Royal British Legion' politiscises it for many. Just because you don't think something is right don't make it so.
> The poppy is above politics
> Banning it is the political agenda.
... and therefore it is not, whatever naive idealists believe, above politics. Just associating the poppy with the 'Royal British Legion' politiscises it for many. Just because you don't think something is right don't make it so.
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In reply to GrahamD:
It's not what I think is right. It's the very idea behind it. The poppy doesn't represent the countries, the political parties, or the victors. It represents and stands for each life lost, associating it to a person. It's about putting a face to the cost of war.
You and the regressive left, tree hugging, special snowflake, limp wristed left are twisting it and making it political, you are making it to fit your own agenda.
> ... and therefore it is not, whatever naive idealists believe, above politics. Just associating the poppy with the 'Royal British Legion' politiscises it for many. Just because you don't think something is right don't make it so.
It's not what I think is right. It's the very idea behind it. The poppy doesn't represent the countries, the political parties, or the victors. It represents and stands for each life lost, associating it to a person. It's about putting a face to the cost of war.
You and the regressive left, tree hugging, special snowflake, limp wristed left are twisting it and making it political, you are making it to fit your own agenda.
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In reply to Bootrock:
I'm not. I wear a poppy for the reasons you stated. But I'm British and associate with the work British forces do. People like Sinn Fein do not, however, associate with the work British forces do.
All of which misses the bigger point of what the hell are personal acts of rememberence to the FA ? they are guilty of politiscising it by requiring national representatives to wear it (whatever they say it would take a man very sure of their convictions to refuse to wear it)
> You and the regressive left, tree hugging, special snowflake, limp wristed left are twisting it and making it political, you are making it to fit your own agenda.
I'm not. I wear a poppy for the reasons you stated. But I'm British and associate with the work British forces do. People like Sinn Fein do not, however, associate with the work British forces do.
All of which misses the bigger point of what the hell are personal acts of rememberence to the FA ? they are guilty of politiscising it by requiring national representatives to wear it (whatever they say it would take a man very sure of their convictions to refuse to wear it)
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In reply to krikoman:
No, it's not.
> How do they get around nations with religious symbols on their flags? I'm not having a go, but Israel have the star of David on their flag, isn't that a religious symbol?
No, it's not.
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In reply to bootrock: England or the uk might think the poppy is apolitical but noone else does. Ever been to an England match ?- dambusters march, songs about the second world war, lots of not very jolly songs about Johnny foreigners
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In reply to wbo:
I have also been to parts of Europe that wear the poppy. France also has the "le bleuet" instead of a poppy.
It's not just "England" that wears the poppy. Many commonwealth countries also wear it or display it. I have been to parts of Africa where some people wore it.
And quite frankly for it to come from FIFA? I think they need to sort themselves out and get their own corrupt, lives sorted before they start preaching.
I have also been to parts of Europe that wear the poppy. France also has the "le bleuet" instead of a poppy.
It's not just "England" that wears the poppy. Many commonwealth countries also wear it or display it. I have been to parts of Africa where some people wore it.
And quite frankly for it to come from FIFA? I think they need to sort themselves out and get their own corrupt, lives sorted before they start preaching.
Post edited at 20:30
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In reply to GrahamD:
Totally agree. I'd like FIFA to increase the fine on the FA too. The FAs behaviour from the start of this issue has been ridiculous.
> ... and therefore it is not, whatever naive idealists believe, above politics. Just associating the poppy with the 'Royal British Legion' politiscises it for many. Just because you don't think something is right don't make it so.
Totally agree. I'd like FIFA to increase the fine on the FA too. The FAs behaviour from the start of this issue has been ridiculous.
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In reply to cragtaff:
Tell that to the people who every year get accused of a lack of patriotism for not wearing one.
> The poppy has nothing whatever to do with politics or religion, it transcends all of those petty issues, it is worn to honour the memory of the dead who died fighting for our freedom.
Tell that to the people who every year get accused of a lack of patriotism for not wearing one.
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In reply to Bootrock:
Is the irony of that statement not lost on you? The "left" even manages a mention twice in the same sentence. How much more political do you want to be?
> You and the regressive left, tree hugging, special snowflake, limp wristed left are twisting it and making it political, you are making it to fit your own agenda.
Is the irony of that statement not lost on you? The "left" even manages a mention twice in the same sentence. How much more political do you want to be?
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In reply to Bootrock:
Ah. I see what's going on here. You're confusing the red poppy with the white one aren't you?
> The poppy doesn't represent the countries, the political parties, or the victors. It represents and stands for each life lost, associating it to a person. It's about putting a face to the cost of war.
Ah. I see what's going on here. You're confusing the red poppy with the white one aren't you?
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In reply to David Martin:
What the hell has patriotism to do with politics? Most football fans where a national shirt, that is patriotism, but may are making no political statement whatever by wearing one.
What the hell has patriotism to do with politics? Most football fans where a national shirt, that is patriotism, but may are making no political statement whatever by wearing one.
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In reply to deepsoup:
Not in the slightest. The White poppy is what you liberal regressive left types wear to make yourselves feel all special.
See the White poppy is like you liberals oh
Boo hoo war is bad, make all the bad things go away.
And the red poppy is for normal people who accept that bad things have happened and that we should try and learn from it and that sometimes violence is the answer but it will always come at a cost.
Not in the slightest. The White poppy is what you liberal regressive left types wear to make yourselves feel all special.
See the White poppy is like you liberals oh
Boo hoo war is bad, make all the bad things go away.
And the red poppy is for normal people who accept that bad things have happened and that we should try and learn from it and that sometimes violence is the answer but it will always come at a cost.
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