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Co-op to expand?

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 Big Ger 28 Dec 2016
This seems very odd. Most high street retailers are cutting back physical stores.

> The Co-operative Group is planning to create 1,500 jobs in the new year by opening 100 stores across the country. The group will invest £70m in the new shops, which will be spread throughout London, south-east England, Yorkshire and Scotland. The Co-op is expecting to open five stores in London by the end of March.

> The company is entering the final stretch of a three-year turnaround programme following a period of turmoil mainly involving its banking group. Stuart Hookins, property portfolio and development director at the Co-op, said: "Whilst other retailers are scaling back their expansion plans, the Co-op continues to open new convenience stores.

Thoughts?
3
 BnB 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

Most likely playing catchup!!
 wbo 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger: not everybody likes to buy online so presumably they see an opening for competitively priced walk in stores.

If it doesn't work they'll need a new chief exec so there'll be a job opening for you there

1
Moley 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

Im pleased to see Wales is not included in their expansion programme, I wish they would look to improve their current stores before opening new ones.
1
 Indy 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

How the Co-Op is still in business beggers belief..... the prices they charge would make Waitrose blush yet they aim for the lower income sector.
4
In reply to Indy:

> How the Co-Op is still in business beggers belief..... the prices they charge would make Waitrose blush yet they aim for the lower income sector.

I would say it's because they have a lot of local shops, many in areas that don't have a massive supermarket just down the road, they stay open until late every night and wait for it . . . . . some people have a conscience and are prepared to support an organisation that benefits good causes rather than just thinking of their own wallet.
 Indy 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Hugh J:

Yes, that seems to be a big theme in the Co-Op's business strategy..... no competition so hike the prices, it's not like people have others options.

Not convinced? look at the Co-Op's treatment of people that are forced to use energy pre-payment meters due to lack of money or poor credit ratings compared to richer people on normal payment terms...

"Co-operative Energy had the largest gap between its cheapest online dual-fuel tariff and its cheapest prepayment dual-fuel tariff, at £405"

Talk about targeting the helpless poor! It was ONLY AFTER Citizens Advice got involved to shame them did they reduce there prices.

"Following contact with Citizens Advice, we have taken the opportunity to review our dual-fuel prepayment tariff and will be reducing it to match the cheapest of the big six rates immediately.”

Or 'shit we got caught!'
Moley 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Hugh J:

Totally agree, we have the co-op or nothing basically - alternative being 50 mile round trip or on line shopping with home delivery (Tesco & Asda), which we also use. Our co-op is appalling with high prices and low quality, plus the shelves are often empty with no restocking taking place. I have not heard a good word for the store from locals.

I can think of little good to say about it, but the town school shut down recently (another story of local rural doom and gloom) and the site has allegedly been bought by another supermarket, possibly Aldi and I foresee an empty co-op.
In reply to Indy:

As usual Indy you are totally missing the point.

> The Co-operative Group, commonly known as the Co-op, is a British consumer co-operative with a diverse family of retail businesses including food retail; electrical retail; financial services; insurance services; legal services and funeralcare, with in excess of 4,500 locations. It is the largest consumer co-operative in the UK and owned by more than 4 million active members. Membership is open to everyone aged 16 and over, provided they share the values and principles upon which the group was founded. Members are democratically involved in setting business strategy, decide how social goals are achieved, and share in its profits - in the last quarter of 2016 over £15m was returned to members and their chosen local community causes.

Perhaps you should also look up the meaning of the word "philanthropy" because you obviously have no idea what it means.
 Yanis Nayu 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

Is it becoming the Co-operative?
 Indy 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Hugh J:

> As usual Indy you are totally missing the point.

> Perhaps you should also look up the meaning of the word "philanthropy" because you obviously have no idea what it means.

WTF.... rob the poor to give to the poor but only after taking a cut.
2
In reply to Indy:

i wonder what the overheads of running lots of very small, widely scattered stores, which keep long opening hours, including the supply chain to restock these, are...? more than a smaller number of centrally located hypermarkets, i imagine.

and why, if they are so overpriced, do other players just not come in and wipe them out?

our local one is pretty good, if you just want to restock basics between 'big shops'.
 Indy 28 Dec 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Tesco's and Sainsbury's manage it..... come to think of it come down to Trafalgar Square and you'll find all three but the Co-Op is hugely more expensive. Tourists being taken advantage of.
In reply to Indy:

> WTF.... rob the poor to give to the poor but only after taking a cut.

Perhap's that a lifestyle choice of the poor Indy?
In reply to Indy:

No sainsbury or tesco round here. ...

But a coop in every village up to the top of the valley.
 imkevinmc 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

Borrow a student with an NUS card, 10 % off all products, get a membership card, get 5% off all CoOp products, regular coupon at till for 10% off £10 or £15 spend, lots of products on offer, like all other supermarkets. I don't find them that expensive at all, just play the game.
 The New NickB 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

They are presumably areas where they are under represented. They have always done well in the convenience market.

They have stores in every postcode in the UK already. Go to many small communities across the UK and they are the only food retailer.
 The New NickB 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Indy:

> Tesco's and Sainsbury's manage it..... come to think of it come down to Trafalgar Square and you'll find all three but the Co-Op is hugely more expensive. Tourists being taken advantage of.

Not really, I've got a couple of Tesco Metro and three Co-op stores within a couple of miles and I don't see much difference.
 The New NickB 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Moley:

They do seem to be spending on existing stores, two of my three local stores have had a recent refit.

Admittedly the co-op stores I use regularly are either in Rochdale (birthplace of the co-op) or the two stores closest to their headquarters in Manchester.
OP Big Ger 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

I used to use the St Just branch a bit, but only as a fallback when I couldn't be arsed driving to Penzance. Not good choice or quality, and high prices.
1
 marsbar 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Hugh J:
I'm going to break with tradition and agree with Indy. Certain Co op groups have been behaving badly recently. I have heard a number of stories, including one where the local shop started selling something they previously hadn't and the only other local shop in the area had a mysterious "accidental" order cancellation that day.

Not to mention this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10466936/Paul-Flowers-arrested...
Post edited at 22:09
 Wsdconst 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

I have two near me, I only use one though as the staff at the other one are unbelievably rude,the final straw came when I called for a bottle of wine, they asked me for ID(I'm 35) but that's fine, no problem, showed them my drivers license, then they asked my 11 year old daughter if she had ID, then when I informed them she was my daughter the assistant said" but she's black". At that point I asked to see the manager(who was about 13) who was also a moron, so I left and never returned. The staff in the other one are quite nice though. But the breads always hard.
OP Big Ger 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Wsdconst:

> then they asked my 11 year old daughter if she had ID, then when I informed them she was my daughter the assistant said" but she's black". At that point I asked to see the manager(who was about 13) who was also a moron, so I left and never returned.

Dear god, I admire your restraint. There wouldn't have been a shelf left standing in the place if they'd have said that to me.
 bouldery bits 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:
BG

Theyre obviously expanding when no one else is in an attempt to beat the market.

Won't work mind.

Hope you had a great Christmas and that,

BB
Post edited at 00:00
OP Big Ger 28 Dec 2016
In reply to bouldery bits:

I did, many thanks, and compliments of the season to you and yours.
 pass and peak 28 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

To anyone that think having a coop come into their village is a good idea your an idiot. i remember when in my village we had the co,op and a Spar, The spar was a franchise run by a family that had to constantly compete with the corporate co,op, unfortunately the family split under the relentless pressure. Inevitably selling out to the Co,op who left it derelict till the could rent it out as a wool shop. withing a month of the Spar closing the Co'op prices went up 40% at this current time they stand a an average of 50% higher than the Morrisons in the next town 17 miles away. I've shopped in Scotland a lot when winter climbing and they dominate the area, how locals afford the price I'll never know. They Co'op is not about the people that it was originally founded for and has been for many years just about profit, stealing from the rich tourist/commuter at the expense of the locals to pays for the excesses of their incompetent directors!!
Gone for good 29 Dec 2016
In reply to pass and peak:

Incompetent directors is true enough. Where I live there are 2 CO-OPS that are literally 20 metres apart only separated by the Post office. The bigger store is OK but expensive and the smaller of the 2 is poor in choice and quality and expensive.
The coop bank is a complete shambles costing the group hundreds of millions in lost revenues.
Pass and peak is right. The group isn't about the people it was originally run for. It's member scheme is a pale imitation of other loyalty schemes and to be frank it's an unpleasant shopping experience compared to the larger retailers.
 pencilled in 29 Dec 2016
In reply to pass and peak:

I'm not sure about that, but I am sure that, like any other key multiple operator, they run price tiers and ranging options according to various data sets. I am also certain that the Coop has enjoyed positive YOY growth like for like and have taken a bigger slice of the retail universe from a relatively static estate. Coop also shed many large stores - they didn't really work, a grocery sized shop with effectively a convenience range. All the trends show that more people buy more stuff in convenience shops than supermarkets which looks likely to continue. I think it sounds like a sensible move for Coop.
 pencilled in 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Gone for good:
Coop bank is nothing to do with Coop any more.
Gone for good 29 Dec 2016
In reply to pencilled in:

20% owned by the coop group....it's largest stakeholder and customer.
 pencilled in 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Gone for good:
Ah, so they do, I stand corrected. It is an investment and not part of the business however, my misunderstanding, hardly costing Coop group hundreds of millions though is it?

We have several joint venture arrangements with other parties, most notably a 20% stake in the Co-operative Bank and a 30% stake
in a travel joint venture with Thomas Cook. The income statement includes a loss of £11m (2014: £3m loss) in respect of joint ventures.
Post edited at 00:33
 Wsdconst 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

> Dear god, I admire your restraint. There wouldn't have been a shelf left standing in the place if they'd have said that to me.

I knew that whatever I said wouldn't make any difference and only escalate the situation, The only thing that's stops me throwing a massive tantrum these days is the fact I need to keep my dbs clean for my livelihood.
Gone for good 29 Dec 2016
In reply to pencilled in:
It's still struggling and has cost the group hundreds of millions in lost revenues over the past 5 or 6 years trying to prop up the poorly performing bank.

http://news.sky.com/story/co-op-bank-sheds-windfarms-and-pfi-loans-in-fresh...
 pencilled in 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Gone for good:

No, that's the bank, of which you pointed out that Coop Group is a shareholder. Coop Group revenues come from food funerals energy etc., not banking.
Gone for good 29 Dec 2016
In reply to pencilled in:

Well not any longer but was doing so as recently as 2014 when it sold a large stake to US hedge funds.


 pencilled in 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Gone for good:
But it was never hundreds of millions in lost revenues was it?
Anyway, back to the thread, Coop food business is chasing the growth of convenience shopping by opening more smaller stores.
 Indy 29 Dec 2016
In reply to pencilled in:

I'm guessing all the prime sites are gone so they'll have to make do with sub-prime and little/no competion and very high prices coupled with poor quality. Oh well its a tried and trusted model for them.

I'm not surprised that I'm not the only one that sees this with the Co-Op.
1
 pencilled in 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Indy: The way I understand it, the sites that have been sold did not fit terribly well with a purely convenience model - managing and ranging outlier poor performers is of itself time consuming and expensive. Some Coop Societies retain 3000sq ft + sites but not TCG, the largest. The bizarre thing is that prices have actually gone down in relative terms; that coupled with increased offers and more own brand offerings, the model would seem to be working. Grocery channel as we know it is on its way out - Asda's market share eroded by discounters like Aldi and Lidl which generally run smaller sites too. Waitrose and, to a certain extent Sainsbury's seem to be enjoying a drive for higher quality produce,
It doesn't help rural customers grumbling about prices, but the alternatives seem less palatable to me. I'm not sure what the fuss is about - smaller shops carry more operating costs relative to revenue, a grocery pricing model is unsustainable in rural areas, which is backed up by the vast number of independent failures to compete.

In reply to Big Ger:

I used to live near a local co op and there was also a sainsburys local a hundred yards away.

Probably 30% (a whole aisle) dedicated to large bags of crisps and fizzy soda drinks. Also disproportionately large booze section, and aisle ends all featuring reduced deals on sweets.

Inbetween was a Greggs for your hot food, plus a dominos, indian, chinese, kebab, fish and chip shop. A mobile phone shop , a hair dressers plus a couple of charity shops.

Sound familiar....?


 johnjohn 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

...sounds ideal.

(I'm happy to pay for convenience and clearly am not alone. I'd rather saw off a leg than spend two hours of my evening or weekend traipsing round a big supermarket. The online option's never quite worked either.)
 bouldery bits 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> I used to live near a local co op and there was also a sainsburys local a hundred yards away.

> Inbetween was a Greggs for your hot food, plus a dominos, indian, chinese, kebab, fish and chip shop. A mobile phone shop , a hair dressers plus a couple of charity shops.

> Sound familiar....?

No bookies?
 Indy 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> Sound familiar....?

I'm guessing only if you have to sign for your 'wages' every fortnight.
 Chris Harris 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Indy:

> Yes, that seems to be a big theme in the Co-Op's business strategy..... no competition so hike the prices, it's not like people have others options.

Our local co-op used to charge prices that would make Harrods blush.

Then a Tesco local opened up a couple of hundred yards away.

All of a sudden they were miraculously able to sell stuff for rather less......

Moley 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:

My wife has just returned from our local Co-op to buy some milk, predictably the milk shelves were virtually empty with only organic left.

But what made her chuckle was this hand written notice on their sweet trolly (for wheeling round and restocking the shelves).

"Please do not dump on the sweet trolly".

Says it all really
 The New NickB 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

> Our local co-op used to charge prices that would make Harrods blush.

> Then a Tesco local opened up a couple of hundred yards away.

> All of a sudden they were miraculously able to sell stuff for rather less......

Co-op pricing appears to be national, although they have recently been engaged in price cutting. Certainly in my experience there does not appear to be a differential between prices in stores with lots of competition and those with none.
 pencilled in 29 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:
Exactly. Price tiers and ranges are not infinite. Coop operates 6 tiers I believe, split into pairs.
 Alan M 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Big Ger:
The Co-Op by mine closed down after 3 x Asda, 1 x Tesco, 3 x Aldi and 2 x Lidl moved in to the area (by area I mean max 15 minute drive from my house. Throw in the 1 x Spa, 2 x One Stop and several small independent convenience stores the Co-Op was more expensive and became uneconomical to keep open. That is on top of the Morrisons and Sainsburys in the next town over still within the 15 minute drive away.

What is funny is that when the big names moved in to the area it was stated that the small shops would die a death. We have more small convenience stores in walking distance of my house now than we did 10 years ago.
Post edited at 17:50
 Dax H 29 Dec 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

I can't speak for the entire country but I work all over Yorkshire and certainly find the prices on the things I buy to be stable.
Co-op tends to be my last resort though because they are normally expensive.
 Duncan Bourne 29 Dec 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

I have to say I have never noticed any major price difference between Co-op & the rest. I use our local Co-op store if I want to get something for the evening and can't be arsed to take the car to Sainsbury's. But Co-op are now just a corner shop type store in our local now. I tend to shop at Tesco or Sainsbury's for the regular weekly shop and Waitrose for anything I fancy that they don't sell.
 Offwidth 30 Dec 2016
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
There are no huge differences, just what you might expect from a large group running small shops that need to make a profit. This talk of 40% higher prices from someone above is pure fantasy. The standard discounts for regular customers and the membership benefits have also been highlighted above. In contrast to another poster above I like their bread. They usually have the best selection of ethical products for smaller stores. They do sell a lot of junk food and booze but they are not a public health outlet and guess what convenience shoppers buy most.

If people want fairer detail than the oddly vitriolic weight of the comments above, then look at the comparison sites and organsiations like Which who survey them (details behind their pay wall)
http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/supermarkets/article/best-and-worst-supermar...
Post edited at 09:41
 Dave Ferguson 30 Dec 2016
In reply to pass and peak:

> To anyone that think having a coop come into their village is a good idea your an idiot. The Co'op is not about the people that it was originally founded for and has been for many years just about profit, stealing from the rich tourist/commuter at the expense of the locals to pays for the excesses of their incompetent directors!!

that's quite a rant. I'll put my hand up and say I'm an idiot.

Our village has a co-op and very good it is too. Without it we wouldn't have much else and the place is too small for a big supermarket. We also have a greengrocer and a butcher who can compete with the co-op. (they wouldn't with Aldi or Lidl). As someone said further up the thread, play the game with vouchers and discounted products, don't buy expensive branded food and its not overly expensive. I'm certainly glad of the Co-op, saves driving 25 miles for a loaf of bread and a pint of milk.



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