UKC

Does anyone know if the 'original' way of climbing the groove above 5th bolt has been repeated after there was a hold breakage? (Nov 2014, I think).
If so, is it still reckoned to be 8a following the groove?

In reply to innes:

The logbooks are a bit unspecific but some of the comments definitely suggest to me going up the groove? I played on it a few weeks back but think the moves left felt a lot more doable on first acquaintance.....

In reply to AJM:

Yeh. I've heard that a lot of people go up the Arete, and not being local I've never seen anyone on it, so it's hard for me to tell what 'the done thing' is these days or what's happened to the grade, if anything.
The groove definitely still goes, as I eventually got a full sequence sorted, but it felt hard... maybe a bit too much for 8a that way?
But then again, I have been eating a lot of Mince Pies this week, so maybe it's not that bad really

In reply to innes:

It was my first try on it so I was trying both sequences and also probably some hybrid things too so not that much time on each but I definitely didn't feel like I was making much impression on going rightwards. Be interested to watch someone on it to see how it goes that way as it felt like sidepulls with no feet at all and all very unlikely...

In reply to innes:

The moves in the groove are a bit harder than they used to be. I redpointed FT in 2004 via the groove and had a play on it earlier this year when my son was working it. The difference I found via the groove was that some of the little footholds just above the overlap were missing making the move to the top of the flowstone shield harder. Once the hold on top of the flowstone shield has been caught, the moves left across the groove into the hard press are about the same in my opinion.

So, to answer your question, I personally think FT, via the sequence in the groove, is harder than when I did it. Is it still 8a? I would need to go back to the 2004 version of Jazz Butcher, which sadly ain't happnin' in this dimension

However, doing the sequence up the arete is about the same as the old sequence via the groove. Just a little reachier and slappier (not real words but hey...) and that is the method my son used who was about 5'8'' at the time.

Good luck on FT.

Cheers,

TJB.

In reply to innes:

It used to be that the arête version was 7c+ and effectively cheating, but as is the way with these things, that has been forgotten and now most people use the left version and claim the 8a tick.
I never managed the tick but I used the grove squence, not using the arête after the big jug after the traversey bit and it felt fine at 8a... could have been before the break you mention, although the hard move is from the undercuts over the lip so unless they've gone I doubt it makes much difference.

In reply to La benya:

I think the broken hold is a left foot you would use to press across from the good hold on the right hand flowstone to the rounded flowstone stuff right by the bolt?

How did you get to the undercuts if you didn't use the pocket by the arete and things to get up there? I thought everyone used the holds by the arete up until the undercuts and then diverged from there.

I can see why people might find left easier (although my friend who did it pre break went via the groove because he couldn't do the arete, so maybe it's horses for courses), but to me it feels like a sequence improvement (and potential regrade if 7c+ were the accepted view) not cheating - I'm not sure your right hand is ever off the line of the bolts and your torso is very close, it certainly felt no further to the bolts than looping out rightwards onto the shield of flowstone on the right.

In reply to innes:

I did it in 2012 (I think) via the groove and again this summer and found one foot hold was missing but there is another poorer one slightly higher so used the same sequence just slight foot adjustment.

It took a good bit of effort first time and took two goes this year.... I think I'm stronger though so can't really compare.

Maybe the groove is harder now.

In reply to Climber_Bill:

Thanks TJB - that was exactly the kind of answer I was fishing for.
Interesting thing is, I found the moves from the undercut to the top of the flow stone to be steady - the easiest bit of the crux for me.
However, once I had my hands sorted on the good bit, the press back left, and then getting stood up with both feet in the groove felt like the living end. I was having real problems working the moves though, as the rope tension is real PITA just there.
It's a great sequence though, and I for some reason I find the groove a compelling feature - I'd like to climb it that way.
Cheers!

In reply to sam.sam.sam.ferguson:

Thanks Sam. Good effort!
It took me ages to conceive that that foothold was in fact a foothold. I had no idea what I was doing, and the style of climbing is quite unique in the UK. The harder stuff at the Cuttings are really good IMO.

In reply to AJM:

You are correct sir! Use the large pocket to get to the undetcuts. The disputed line is definitely off the line of the bolts and is more around the arête rather than just using it for your left hand. When you've seen someone climb it like that, you see why people turn their nose up at it.
It's a great route whatever the grade although I would say breathing method has a better crux sequence and under duress too, the latter probably being the hardest of the 3 (with pish climbing either side)

In reply to La benya:

Interesting - a further left method?

(The sequence I was thinking of as the left hand sequence went straight up to a sharp crimp in the groove from the undercuts, then a long move left to a good hold on the arete, and then basically bumping the right hand up the left side of the groove on the poor flowstone to get to the good lump of flowstone just above the bolt. I'm not sure if that's different from what you're thinking of as "around the left arete"?)