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How often to do have to go to maintain at a steady level?
How long if you want to increase climbing grade from say a 5b to 6b?
Do you do a mix of bouldering & routes of just stick to one? Plus any training on top of that?
Just that really 😀
How long if you want to increase climbing grade from say a 5b to 6b?
Do you do a mix of bouldering & routes of just stick to one? Plus any training on top of that?
Just that really 😀
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Why don't you tell us how long it takes you to climb 6b
It's all various degrees of separation, enjoy climbing.
Why don't you tell us how long it takes you to climb 6b
It's all various degrees of separation, enjoy climbing.
Post edited at 18:11
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In reply to zimpara:
I can't.
I can top rope it, at a push but it has to be technical. Can't do overhanging stuff.
I can't.
I can top rope it, at a push but it has to be technical. Can't do overhanging stuff.
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
How long is a piece of string?
Down to the individual. No hard, fast or general rules.
Go as much as you like, push as hard as you like. Reap what you sow.
How long is a piece of string?
Down to the individual. No hard, fast or general rules.
Go as much as you like, push as hard as you like. Reap what you sow.
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3
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
When I'm 'on it' I'll go 4x a week, say 2 route sessions 2 bouldering. But then this goes in fits and starts over the winter, punctuated by bouts of colds, flu, despair, apathy and other illnesses.
I'd say you can stay where you're at with 1 session per week. Improve slowly with 2, used wisely, and (theoretically) get somewhere with 3 or 4.
When I'm 'on it' I'll go 4x a week, say 2 route sessions 2 bouldering. But then this goes in fits and starts over the winter, punctuated by bouts of colds, flu, despair, apathy and other illnesses.
I'd say you can stay where you're at with 1 session per week. Improve slowly with 2, used wisely, and (theoretically) get somewhere with 3 or 4.
8
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
About an hour?
> How long if you want to increase climbing grade from say a 5b to 6b?
About an hour?
3
7
In reply to planetmarshall:
Hardest worked indoor route "Indoor - 6b+" Have you been at the wall for what? 1h 10m now?
> About an hour?
Hardest worked indoor route "Indoor - 6b+" Have you been at the wall for what? 1h 10m now?
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1
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
I improved a lot in 2016 without going to walls...but suspect that there's a level at which some training is required. But to lead 6b on plastic really isn't hard at all unless you're massively overweight or missing limbs. And I recently spent 2 weeks ice climbing with a bloke with a prosthetic leg and he's led E2...
In terms of maintaining performance for me I need to do some sort of training or climbing a minimum of once a week, whether that's trad, fingerboard or a solid pull-up session.
I improved a lot in 2016 without going to walls...but suspect that there's a level at which some training is required. But to lead 6b on plastic really isn't hard at all unless you're massively overweight or missing limbs. And I recently spent 2 weeks ice climbing with a bloke with a prosthetic leg and he's led E2...
In terms of maintaining performance for me I need to do some sort of training or climbing a minimum of once a week, whether that's trad, fingerboard or a solid pull-up session.
5
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In reply to JackM92:
Thanks Jack. Realistically I can go 2 days a week, now my 3yr old had started school. But that's on my own, so bouldering.
But due to childcare restraints I can only get to the wall with a partner probably once a month
Thanks Jack. Realistically I can go 2 days a week, now my 3yr old had started school. But that's on my own, so bouldering.
But due to childcare restraints I can only get to the wall with a partner probably once a month
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
These seem rather different questions (and yes, I know you asked a third one!)
Could I ask you a few questions:
How long have you been climbing?
What grade are you onsighting at the moment?
What grade do you want to onsight - and why?
Mick
> How often to do have to go to maintain at a steady level?
> How long if you want to increase climbing grade from say a 5b to 6b?
These seem rather different questions (and yes, I know you asked a third one!)
Could I ask you a few questions:
How long have you been climbing?
What grade are you onsighting at the moment?
What grade do you want to onsight - and why?
Mick
1
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
That was at AW Sheffield. I haven't yet managed a 6a in Belgium or Holland...
> Hardest worked indoor route "Indoor - 6b+"
That was at AW Sheffield. I haven't yet managed a 6a in Belgium or Holland...
1
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Climbing twice a week is enough to improve at that level.
Don't worry about lack of regular routes - as long as it's a decent wall, bouldering is fine. (I climbed an 8a this year. I probably haven't climbed a route indoors since my max grade was 7b or 7b+, 4 or 5 years ago.)
You might struggle a little psychologically on your occasional route sessions if you aren't climbing outside as well. Depends also what grades your partner is climbing.
Climbing twice a week is enough to improve at that level.
Don't worry about lack of regular routes - as long as it's a decent wall, bouldering is fine. (I climbed an 8a this year. I probably haven't climbed a route indoors since my max grade was 7b or 7b+, 4 or 5 years ago.)
You might struggle a little psychologically on your occasional route sessions if you aren't climbing outside as well. Depends also what grades your partner is climbing.
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
The length of time thing isn't really going to help but I imagine most people get into the 6's at 3-6 months.
If you train at the wall (rather than just going climbing you're likely to see improvement with two sessions a week, especially if you supplement those sessions with training at home. This is more likely to be of use to you when you're a bit better tbh.
What you can do now to see improvement is work on your weaknesses. Every climber should do this, every climber knows they should do this, very few climbers actually do this. If your footwork is shit, practice it. If your nervous on overhanging stuff, climb on it more often.
Ignore Planetmarshall, very few climbers would get into 6b territory straight away.
The length of time thing isn't really going to help but I imagine most people get into the 6's at 3-6 months.
If you train at the wall (rather than just going climbing you're likely to see improvement with two sessions a week, especially if you supplement those sessions with training at home. This is more likely to be of use to you when you're a bit better tbh.
What you can do now to see improvement is work on your weaknesses. Every climber should do this, every climber knows they should do this, very few climbers actually do this. If your footwork is shit, practice it. If your nervous on overhanging stuff, climb on it more often.
Ignore Planetmarshall, very few climbers would get into 6b territory straight away.
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
As others have said, if you can manage twice a week at the wall bouldering you should have no problem getting from 5b to 6b (assuming you mean sport grade not U.K. Tech grade).
Try to focus a bit more on crimpy problems when bouldering rather than larger hold problems. Also throw in some endurance circuits into your bouldering to help when you do get chance to do some leading. Loads of stuff on line, but walls with circuit boards, traverse walls or auto-belays are all good to help improve endurance in tandem with bouldering to improve your finger strength.
The above is very simplistic but if you're climbing effectively twice a week you'll soon get to 6b. Have fun.
As others have said, if you can manage twice a week at the wall bouldering you should have no problem getting from 5b to 6b (assuming you mean sport grade not U.K. Tech grade).
Try to focus a bit more on crimpy problems when bouldering rather than larger hold problems. Also throw in some endurance circuits into your bouldering to help when you do get chance to do some leading. Loads of stuff on line, but walls with circuit boards, traverse walls or auto-belays are all good to help improve endurance in tandem with bouldering to improve your finger strength.
The above is very simplistic but if you're climbing effectively twice a week you'll soon get to 6b. Have fun.
1
In reply to deacondeacon:
Well I wasn't really serious, but that's neither here nor there. The point is that the OP may as well ask how long is a length of rope.
If the real question is 'how do I improve', that very much depends on where you currently sit. Generally speaking, you're unlikely to improve much, if at all, with only 1 session per week.
2-3 sessions per week, you should see rapid improvement, though indoors you will rapidly run out of choices if you avoid overhanging routes.
I know many advanced climbers who no longer bother with climbing routes indoors, and just use the bouldering wall. There's definitely something to be said for this.
> Ignore Planetmarshall, very few climbers would get into 6b territory straight away.
Well I wasn't really serious, but that's neither here nor there. The point is that the OP may as well ask how long is a length of rope.
If the real question is 'how do I improve', that very much depends on where you currently sit. Generally speaking, you're unlikely to improve much, if at all, with only 1 session per week.
2-3 sessions per week, you should see rapid improvement, though indoors you will rapidly run out of choices if you avoid overhanging routes.
I know many advanced climbers who no longer bother with climbing routes indoors, and just use the bouldering wall. There's definitely something to be said for this.
Post edited at 21:20
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In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Ok, personally. Not intentionally being rude, just re read it and it does sound a little curt.
I haven't climbed since early November, except 2 days ago, went indoors. I was at the wall for 5 routes, stopped due to injury niggles. Climbed 6a to 6c sport on lead on sight.
In early November I climbed mid 7s indoors, hadn't climbed much for 2 months prior either. This is when I picked up my injury, probably due to lack of climbing prior to this and jumping on too much too soon.
last year outdoors. 26 trad routes. 11 sport routes. Sport average 6c, trad doesnt count to sport fitness besides stamina.
I probably climbed indoors once a month last year on average, let's say twice a month to be generous. Uninjured I expect to on sight indoors 7a sport.
Willy waving? No, what you miss from this is the 20 years climbing, prior to last 2 years I was climbing 100s of routes a year, indoors at least once a week, and to higher standards. Getting consistently better at climbing takes time and effort. Snap shots are not reliable.
Most people from starting improve to what their body allows. Then plateau. Breaking that plateau takes time and effort, to get better technique. The progress tends to be slower. Then they plateau again. This is where improvement really takes dedication. Que obsession, train plans, coaching, cross training etc etc.
Good luck, have fun, climb safe.
Ok, personally. Not intentionally being rude, just re read it and it does sound a little curt.
I haven't climbed since early November, except 2 days ago, went indoors. I was at the wall for 5 routes, stopped due to injury niggles. Climbed 6a to 6c sport on lead on sight.
In early November I climbed mid 7s indoors, hadn't climbed much for 2 months prior either. This is when I picked up my injury, probably due to lack of climbing prior to this and jumping on too much too soon.
last year outdoors. 26 trad routes. 11 sport routes. Sport average 6c, trad doesnt count to sport fitness besides stamina.
I probably climbed indoors once a month last year on average, let's say twice a month to be generous. Uninjured I expect to on sight indoors 7a sport.
Willy waving? No, what you miss from this is the 20 years climbing, prior to last 2 years I was climbing 100s of routes a year, indoors at least once a week, and to higher standards. Getting consistently better at climbing takes time and effort. Snap shots are not reliable.
Most people from starting improve to what their body allows. Then plateau. Breaking that plateau takes time and effort, to get better technique. The progress tends to be slower. Then they plateau again. This is where improvement really takes dedication. Que obsession, train plans, coaching, cross training etc etc.
Good luck, have fun, climb safe.
2
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
It depends on many factors, your age, weight, natural strength and fitness levels etc. But assuming you're average across the board I'd say twice a week (and actually put some effort in while you're there) will get you steadily up to leading that grade indoors within 6 months or so as long as you stay committed. You could go more often if you wanted but at 5b level 3 times a week or more will probably just burn you out.
I boulder about 3 times a week, occasionally 4 and that's enough for me, much more and I'd be starting the next session still recovering and I'm not training focused enough to be dividing it up into working different muscle groups etc.
It depends on many factors, your age, weight, natural strength and fitness levels etc. But assuming you're average across the board I'd say twice a week (and actually put some effort in while you're there) will get you steadily up to leading that grade indoors within 6 months or so as long as you stay committed. You could go more often if you wanted but at 5b level 3 times a week or more will probably just burn you out.
I boulder about 3 times a week, occasionally 4 and that's enough for me, much more and I'd be starting the next session still recovering and I'm not training focused enough to be dividing it up into working different muscle groups etc.
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Twice a week should be enough to get to 6b and beyond but it's also important to focus on technique as there can be some easy gains there. Get to know some better boulderers, ask them for tips and watch them climb.
I climb twice a week indoors, sometimes only once a week. Seems to be enough to maintain but not to improve. I also climb outdoors both days most weekends, all year round (different types of climbing through the year). That's probably as important as the indoor training.
Twice a week should be enough to get to 6b and beyond but it's also important to focus on technique as there can be some easy gains there. Get to know some better boulderers, ask them for tips and watch them climb.
I climb twice a week indoors, sometimes only once a week. Seems to be enough to maintain but not to improve. I also climb outdoors both days most weekends, all year round (different types of climbing through the year). That's probably as important as the indoor training.
1
In reply to Mick Ward:
About 14 years. On and off, less since the children came along 8 years ago.
I used to onsight 6c in the wall, but now it's 5+. I have no strength anymore and my head wobbles when leading.
I now have the opportunity to go to the wall more often so i was just interested in what other people's routines were.
About 14 years. On and off, less since the children came along 8 years ago.
I used to onsight 6c in the wall, but now it's 5+. I have no strength anymore and my head wobbles when leading.
I now have the opportunity to go to the wall more often so i was just interested in what other people's routines were.
3
In reply to Kevster:
My husband us similar to this. He can avoid a climbing wall for months and then jump on a 7a.
But, like you he has a lot of hard consitent climbing years under his belt.
I've always been a bit more adhoc.
My husband us similar to this. He can avoid a climbing wall for months and then jump on a 7a.
But, like you he has a lot of hard consitent climbing years under his belt.
I've always been a bit more adhoc.
In reply to planetmarshall:
Amen to this, binned off routes indoors as it always just felt like going through the motions year after year. Though I'm not advanced but just bouldering has quickly got me back to my previous high points of performance in sport, trad and bouldering. Feel fitter than I ever have just messing about bouldering basically.
Indoor routes are incredibly boring and not at all like any climbing outside I've ever done. And you need someone to climb with.
> I know many advanced climbers who no longer bother with climbing routes indoors, and just use the bouldering wall. There's definitely something to be said for this.
Amen to this, binned off routes indoors as it always just felt like going through the motions year after year. Though I'm not advanced but just bouldering has quickly got me back to my previous high points of performance in sport, trad and bouldering. Feel fitter than I ever have just messing about bouldering basically.
Indoor routes are incredibly boring and not at all like any climbing outside I've ever done. And you need someone to climb with.
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Thank you for the information. There's tons of good advice on here but what's going to work best for you is probably what's most targeted to your particular situation.
Bringing up kids seems just about the most knackering thing imaginable (I haven't got any) so good effort. Knackering things take it out of us in all kinds of ways, obvious and subtle.
Climbers tend to be intensely self-critical. Most people making comebacks will think of their best previous performance as the baseline and their present situation as falling beneath it. Two problems:
1. Their present situation is perceived as negative.
2. The 'baseline' was never a baseline. It was the summit of a pyramid!
Why not just start another pyramid - a different one this time. Wobbly when leading - I know the feeling! Find the easiest routes you can, F4, F3, whatever and lead them. Lead, lead, lead. You won't need physical strength. Concentrate on breathing, good technique, 'flow'. Practise falling (safely!!!) Do more leading. And more practice falling. And more leading. You'll start to relax.
Let's say your onsight grade is F5. Build up a base of F5 leads, two, five, ten.
Have a worked grade, say F6a+. Play around on a top-rope. Have fun. Use it to analyse weaknesses. Is your lack of strength, finger strength, arms, what? Learn to link sections and redpoint the lot. Replicate the weakness situations on boulders, so your bouldering is focused.
Don't compare now with before. Live in the now. And the now is a different type of pyramid, a different situation.
With time and patience (avoid injury!) it's highly likely that you'll gain and surpass your previous level. Just think what your first F7a would feel like.
Don't think you've run out of time. I'm focused on (absolute) improvement - after 50 years. Yes, you read that right!
Good luck.
Mick
> About 14 years. On and off, less since the children came along 8 years ago.
> I used to onsight 6c in the wall, but now it's 5+. I have no strength anymore and my head wobbles when leading.
> I now have the opportunity to go to the wall more often so i was just interested in what other people's routines were.
Thank you for the information. There's tons of good advice on here but what's going to work best for you is probably what's most targeted to your particular situation.
Bringing up kids seems just about the most knackering thing imaginable (I haven't got any) so good effort. Knackering things take it out of us in all kinds of ways, obvious and subtle.
Climbers tend to be intensely self-critical. Most people making comebacks will think of their best previous performance as the baseline and their present situation as falling beneath it. Two problems:
1. Their present situation is perceived as negative.
2. The 'baseline' was never a baseline. It was the summit of a pyramid!
Why not just start another pyramid - a different one this time. Wobbly when leading - I know the feeling! Find the easiest routes you can, F4, F3, whatever and lead them. Lead, lead, lead. You won't need physical strength. Concentrate on breathing, good technique, 'flow'. Practise falling (safely!!!) Do more leading. And more practice falling. And more leading. You'll start to relax.
Let's say your onsight grade is F5. Build up a base of F5 leads, two, five, ten.
Have a worked grade, say F6a+. Play around on a top-rope. Have fun. Use it to analyse weaknesses. Is your lack of strength, finger strength, arms, what? Learn to link sections and redpoint the lot. Replicate the weakness situations on boulders, so your bouldering is focused.
Don't compare now with before. Live in the now. And the now is a different type of pyramid, a different situation.
With time and patience (avoid injury!) it's highly likely that you'll gain and surpass your previous level. Just think what your first F7a would feel like.
Don't think you've run out of time. I'm focused on (absolute) improvement - after 50 years. Yes, you read that right!
Good luck.
Mick
13
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
I find once a week if some thought is put into what you actually do.
Dave Macleod says the same in his book (in the section about fitting climbing into a busy life)
> How often to do have to go to maintain at a steady level?
I find once a week if some thought is put into what you actually do.
Dave Macleod says the same in his book (in the section about fitting climbing into a busy life)
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Great reply from Mick. I'm in a similar boat having hovered around high 6s/low 7s in a previous fitter life. Currently going to the wall less than once a week and making slow progress and starting to bother the 6bs. Bouldering I'm just getting mileage and not really projecting anything (need to watch out for underlying joint problems flaring up, plus caution, plus laziness). Lead wall, again mileage (on the lead) and getting on one or two things a session where I'm failing. After switching mainly to running years ago all my fitness has headed south into my legs. Upper body strength has wilted and struggle on anything powerful, in particular. Technique still seems to be there somewhere, covered in dust. Still running and looking to capitalise on climbing gains without tons of effort. Enjoying the journey.
Great reply from Mick. I'm in a similar boat having hovered around high 6s/low 7s in a previous fitter life. Currently going to the wall less than once a week and making slow progress and starting to bother the 6bs. Bouldering I'm just getting mileage and not really projecting anything (need to watch out for underlying joint problems flaring up, plus caution, plus laziness). Lead wall, again mileage (on the lead) and getting on one or two things a session where I'm failing. After switching mainly to running years ago all my fitness has headed south into my legs. Upper body strength has wilted and struggle on anything powerful, in particular. Technique still seems to be there somewhere, covered in dust. Still running and looking to capitalise on climbing gains without tons of effort. Enjoying the journey.
2
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
I climb twice a week at the wall, (AW Sheffield), and boulder at least twice at the Works.
I think if I just went once I would maintain my grades but going this often I'm seeing a gradual improvement.
Having said that I've never bettered a 7a and that's on the roof, I've never managed that on a wall or slab.
The climbing on the roof thing is down to a good power to weight ratio, if this isn't at least 'good', then all the technique in the world won't get you there.
I would say that if you once on sighted 7a then enough regular wall time would see you there again.
I climb twice a week at the wall, (AW Sheffield), and boulder at least twice at the Works.
I think if I just went once I would maintain my grades but going this often I'm seeing a gradual improvement.
Having said that I've never bettered a 7a and that's on the roof, I've never managed that on a wall or slab.
The climbing on the roof thing is down to a good power to weight ratio, if this isn't at least 'good', then all the technique in the world won't get you there.
I would say that if you once on sighted 7a then enough regular wall time would see you there again.
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
It is really simplistic advice on the number of sessions for optimum progress, but in the 7 years since I first heard it on a Neil Gresham coaching course I've never come across anything that really contradicts it:
Sport grade 5s > 2 times per week
Sport grade 6s > 3 times per week
Sport grade 7s > 4 times per week
Sport grade 8s > 5 or more times per week
It is really simplistic advice on the number of sessions for optimum progress, but in the 7 years since I first heard it on a Neil Gresham coaching course I've never come across anything that really contradicts it:
Sport grade 5s > 2 times per week
Sport grade 6s > 3 times per week
Sport grade 7s > 4 times per week
Sport grade 8s > 5 or more times per week
Post edited at 14:53
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In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Personally I go 1 or twice a week if my climbing partners up for it. I would love to go more if I had the time!
I have been doing this for about a year and I have slowly improved. Just try and enjoy yourself, and try your best not to think about grades (however tempting it is!)
Personally I go 1 or twice a week if my climbing partners up for it. I would love to go more if I had the time!
I have been doing this for about a year and I have slowly improved. Just try and enjoy yourself, and try your best not to think about grades (however tempting it is!)
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Hmmm... aside from booked-off holiday time, I have only climbed at weekends for 5-6 years, during which time I went from sport 7a to 8s. No regular midweek climbing sessions - the odd exception just exacerbated my elbow niggles or made me too tired for my weekends at the crag (I started doing some midweek fingerboarding last year, but I was already climbing at pretty much my present level by then). Admittedly I had a decent base of finger strength from almost solely bouldering for 5 years beforehand, but I suspect if I had followed Mr Gresham's advice I would be utterly broken.
Hmmm... aside from booked-off holiday time, I have only climbed at weekends for 5-6 years, during which time I went from sport 7a to 8s. No regular midweek climbing sessions - the odd exception just exacerbated my elbow niggles or made me too tired for my weekends at the crag (I started doing some midweek fingerboarding last year, but I was already climbing at pretty much my present level by then). Admittedly I had a decent base of finger strength from almost solely bouldering for 5 years beforehand, but I suspect if I had followed Mr Gresham's advice I would be utterly broken.
2
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Ah, a lady with children.
A friend of mine was touching 7a regularly. She had children, suddenly her head went and became far more risk adverse. Killed her climbing, now does tri's. I know this happens with gents too, but it was very pronounced in the only example I know personally. though not scientific, maybe an indicator.
Maybe some of your potential hurdles run deeper than just lack of practice? You say above that you're a little "wobbly".
With respect to ladies, I think they find the initial plateau at a lower grade than gents. And 6a/b can be quite tough to achieve. I also think this may be a strength & mentality thing, simple sex linked differences. But after a while the ladies become such better climbers, they are forced to use technique and imagination, alongside sometimes unbelievable flexibility. Then their fitness/strength catches up and while men are still beefcake and wondering why they can't pull through a stopper move, the ladies gracefully take the lead.
Again, have fun, climb safe, Kev.
Ah, a lady with children.
A friend of mine was touching 7a regularly. She had children, suddenly her head went and became far more risk adverse. Killed her climbing, now does tri's. I know this happens with gents too, but it was very pronounced in the only example I know personally. though not scientific, maybe an indicator.
Maybe some of your potential hurdles run deeper than just lack of practice? You say above that you're a little "wobbly".
With respect to ladies, I think they find the initial plateau at a lower grade than gents. And 6a/b can be quite tough to achieve. I also think this may be a strength & mentality thing, simple sex linked differences. But after a while the ladies become such better climbers, they are forced to use technique and imagination, alongside sometimes unbelievable flexibility. Then their fitness/strength catches up and while men are still beefcake and wondering why they can't pull through a stopper move, the ladies gracefully take the lead.
Again, have fun, climb safe, Kev.
3
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Well, I have been going 1-2 times per week for 20 years.
I'd say
1x per week gets me to sport 6a+ and hold it there.
2x gets me to 6b+ and holds it there.
Outside, climbing 1x/week gets me to E1
2x gets me to E2.
BUT, my weight and general fitness are just as influential
Well, I have been going 1-2 times per week for 20 years.
I'd say
1x per week gets me to sport 6a+ and hold it there.
2x gets me to 6b+ and holds it there.
Outside, climbing 1x/week gets me to E1
2x gets me to E2.
BUT, my weight and general fitness are just as influential
2
In reply to Kevster:
Thanks Kev,
Yes there's certainly an increased level of risk awareness since having children.
I've always been better at technical climbs as I have never had enough brute stregth to power up things, so always been better on verticle 6+, even when climbing verticle 6+ easily I couldn't get up a 5b overhang!
Thanks Kev,
Yes there's certainly an increased level of risk awareness since having children.
I've always been better at technical climbs as I have never had enough brute stregth to power up things, so always been better on verticle 6+, even when climbing verticle 6+ easily I couldn't get up a 5b overhang!
1
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Hmmm. I managed my first couple of 7b's last year and only get to a wall 1-2/ WK + a fingerboard session. I've found it more useful to focus indoor sessions on what I'm trying to achieve outside and go with people who push/critique me.
(Including a day at Brean with you!!)
Chris
Hmmm. I managed my first couple of 7b's last year and only get to a wall 1-2/ WK + a fingerboard session. I've found it more useful to focus indoor sessions on what I'm trying to achieve outside and go with people who push/critique me.
(Including a day at Brean with you!!)
Chris
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
I listened to a podcast by one of the Anderson brothers a while back who said having checked back into his logs that he had made slow but steady progress off 5-6 hours per week. I'm not sure if it's the one who has now climbed 9a or the one who is "only" in the 8s still but it does make you realise how much focus, tactics and good planning can do.
For myself I've not done more than a fingerboard session and a wall session midweek regularly since Easter and don't exactly feel like I'm going backwards. No big ticks but a 7c respectably quickly and progressed well on the 2 8as I've tried, one of which (cider soak) is definitely a step up from anything I've tried before...
I listened to a podcast by one of the Anderson brothers a while back who said having checked back into his logs that he had made slow but steady progress off 5-6 hours per week. I'm not sure if it's the one who has now climbed 9a or the one who is "only" in the 8s still but it does make you realise how much focus, tactics and good planning can do.
For myself I've not done more than a fingerboard session and a wall session midweek regularly since Easter and don't exactly feel like I'm going backwards. No big ticks but a 7c respectably quickly and progressed well on the 2 8as I've tried, one of which (cider soak) is definitely a step up from anything I've tried before...
In reply to AJM:
If you're also climbing at weekends, that regime still comprises 50% more regular climbing than I've had for 6 years - so I would not worry about the effects of your diminished commitment! Personally, I've hardly gone backwards with my "weekend warrior" ways.
I speak to so many folk at Malham / Kilnsey who spend their weekends complaining about tiredness / soreness from midweek training and never seem to actually tick anything because they are always nursing injuries. Each to their own, but personally I find slow progress but always being fresh for the RP and rarely injured more to my taste (not that I have much choice with my work schedule).
> For myself I've not done more than a fingerboard session and a wall session midweek regularly since Easter and don't exactly feel like I'm going backwards.
If you're also climbing at weekends, that regime still comprises 50% more regular climbing than I've had for 6 years - so I would not worry about the effects of your diminished commitment! Personally, I've hardly gone backwards with my "weekend warrior" ways.
I speak to so many folk at Malham / Kilnsey who spend their weekends complaining about tiredness / soreness from midweek training and never seem to actually tick anything because they are always nursing injuries. Each to their own, but personally I find slow progress but always being fresh for the RP and rarely injured more to my taste (not that I have much choice with my work schedule).
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
I get the feeling you are able to get more consistent project time than me (amongst other things a larger number of distinct crags for people to choose from and fickle sea level conditions or tidal considerations for some) which is something I wish I had.
If the crag is your performance time it does seem odd to turn up tired - peaking for "crag later" or "trip elsewhere" could be the main priorities I suppose.
I'm just clinging onto the idea that maintenance or progress can be achieved off low numbers of focused training sessions given I'm about to severely restrict my time in almost every aspect!
I get the feeling you are able to get more consistent project time than me (amongst other things a larger number of distinct crags for people to choose from and fickle sea level conditions or tidal considerations for some) which is something I wish I had.
If the crag is your performance time it does seem odd to turn up tired - peaking for "crag later" or "trip elsewhere" could be the main priorities I suppose.
I'm just clinging onto the idea that maintenance or progress can be achieved off low numbers of focused training sessions given I'm about to severely restrict my time in almost every aspect!
In reply to AJM:
True - I live in Ilkley and generally climb both Saturday and Sunday at Malham or Kilnsey, every weekend, from March/April to October/November. The prospect of those weekends is what sustains me through the working week.
For me, resting all midweek (of late, maybe fingerboard session when in full project mode) to guarantee getting the most from those weekends seems a reasonable schedule. I don't enjoy indoor climbing enough (and I am fed up of it by Spring, as it's pretty much all I do all Winter) to add a midweek session that might risk my weekends, and I don't feel it would greatly aid my progress: weekends only has been enough so far. The main factor for me is actually getting time on my projects. That said, the routes are necessarily getting harder, so perhaps a greater push will be needed this year.... we'll see (although, I thought that last year and it ended up being my best yet - 14 Yorkshire sport routes of 7c+ and above).
> I get the feeling you are able to get more consistent project time than me (amongst other things a larger number of distinct crags for people to choose from and fickle sea level conditions or tidal considerations for some) which is something I wish I had.
True - I live in Ilkley and generally climb both Saturday and Sunday at Malham or Kilnsey, every weekend, from March/April to October/November. The prospect of those weekends is what sustains me through the working week.
For me, resting all midweek (of late, maybe fingerboard session when in full project mode) to guarantee getting the most from those weekends seems a reasonable schedule. I don't enjoy indoor climbing enough (and I am fed up of it by Spring, as it's pretty much all I do all Winter) to add a midweek session that might risk my weekends, and I don't feel it would greatly aid my progress: weekends only has been enough so far. The main factor for me is actually getting time on my projects. That said, the routes are necessarily getting harder, so perhaps a greater push will be needed this year.... we'll see (although, I thought that last year and it ended up being my best yet - 14 Yorkshire sport routes of 7c+ and above).
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose and AJM: Turning into quite an interesting discussion.
There is always a real tension between training and performance. The comments about people at the crag not ticking their project due to being tired from training perfectly encapsulates that. You are definitely going to climb better in the short and medium term only climbing at the weekend well rested so it definitely makes sense to sack off midweek training if you have perfect outdoor conditions for long term projects. Most climbers understand the concept of training cycles and peaking but I think struggle with implementing it well. Avoiding the whole issue and being content with steady, slow progress certainly keeps things simple.
My issue for most of the last decade has been consistency. Basically, I spend perhaps 4-5 months out of 12 doing lots and then life gets in the way and I let things slip. This means that whenever I am training and climbing the first 6-8 weeks is just spent getting back to where I was previously so it feels like I'm only getting possibly 3 months worthwhile progress in any calendar year. If I ever manage to string together 12+months of consistent climbing them I'm sure my grade would jump considerably.
On that basis I think it is very clear that climbing twice a week 12 months of the year, beats climbing four times a week for 6 months of the year hands down!
There is always a real tension between training and performance. The comments about people at the crag not ticking their project due to being tired from training perfectly encapsulates that. You are definitely going to climb better in the short and medium term only climbing at the weekend well rested so it definitely makes sense to sack off midweek training if you have perfect outdoor conditions for long term projects. Most climbers understand the concept of training cycles and peaking but I think struggle with implementing it well. Avoiding the whole issue and being content with steady, slow progress certainly keeps things simple.
My issue for most of the last decade has been consistency. Basically, I spend perhaps 4-5 months out of 12 doing lots and then life gets in the way and I let things slip. This means that whenever I am training and climbing the first 6-8 weeks is just spent getting back to where I was previously so it feels like I'm only getting possibly 3 months worthwhile progress in any calendar year. If I ever manage to string together 12+months of consistent climbing them I'm sure my grade would jump considerably.
On that basis I think it is very clear that climbing twice a week 12 months of the year, beats climbing four times a week for 6 months of the year hands down!
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In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
That's definitely something I dont have - there's a relatively consistent Cuttings season in the winter but then outside that it all gets a bit jumbled, there's Wallsend/coastguard, the swanage sea level stuff, its always easy to get sucked into dws (immense fun but you don't objectively speaking get that much dome because of the regular soakings, the ground up approach etc) and then there's trying to fit in any bouldering and trad too (again enjoyable, but lowers sport focus). It all jumbles the training focus compared to your steadier approach.
That's definitely something I dont have - there's a relatively consistent Cuttings season in the winter but then outside that it all gets a bit jumbled, there's Wallsend/coastguard, the swanage sea level stuff, its always easy to get sucked into dws (immense fun but you don't objectively speaking get that much dome because of the regular soakings, the ground up approach etc) and then there's trying to fit in any bouldering and trad too (again enjoyable, but lowers sport focus). It all jumbles the training focus compared to your steadier approach.
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
How hard were you bouldering?
> Hmmm... aside from booked-off holiday time, I have only climbed at weekends for 5-6 years, during which time I went from sport 7a to 8s.... ...Admittedly I had a decent base of finger strength from almost solely bouldering for 5 years beforehand, but I suspect if I had followed Mr Gresham's advice I would be utterly broken.
How hard were you bouldering?
In reply to snoop6060:
Do you think going on a euro sport climbing trip every fortnight might help too?
> just bouldering has quickly got me back to my previous high points of performance in sport, trad and bouldering. Feel fitter than I ever have just messing about bouldering basically.
Do you think going on a euro sport climbing trip every fortnight might help too?
1
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
That probably assumes no actual time on rock during the week. That's the trouble with some of these coaching programmes, they say go and climb x times a week at the wall doing x y z exercises / routines but they never seem to factor in actually getting on your outdoor projects once or twice a week! Allowing for two decent days on the rock each week most weeks, or even two quality evening sessions, you can get away with two indoor sessions a week up to mid 7s. Don't know beyond that.
That probably assumes no actual time on rock during the week. That's the trouble with some of these coaching programmes, they say go and climb x times a week at the wall doing x y z exercises / routines but they never seem to factor in actually getting on your outdoor projects once or twice a week! Allowing for two decent days on the rock each week most weeks, or even two quality evening sessions, you can get away with two indoor sessions a week up to mid 7s. Don't know beyond that.
In reply to Misha:
>Allowing for two decent days on the rock each week most weeks, or even two quality evening sessions, you can get away with two indoor sessions a week up to mid 7s. Don't know beyond that.
Personally, I've found that just "two decent days on the rock each week" has been sufficient to get to my level - without any extra sessions - outdoors during the spring-autum period, indoors when forced by bad weather. Two sessions per week is plenty if you are pretty dedicated and go at those days in a determined fashion. My main problem is not getting too disprited by my inability to do more than 6 moves in succession at the start of the routes season, after a winter spent bouldering on plastic.
In reply to sebastian dangerfield:
When I was a dedicated boulderer, I did a fair few font7b+s (and the odd 7c that massively suited me). But I then had a bit of a medical issue that reduced my bouldering strength to more like 7a+/b, and I moved to Ilkley - so I took up sport climbing (more for variety than anything else - the prospect of hanging round the same bouldering venues but being unable to even repeat stuff I had done previously, let alone tick anything new, was a bit depressing).
>Allowing for two decent days on the rock each week most weeks, or even two quality evening sessions, you can get away with two indoor sessions a week up to mid 7s. Don't know beyond that.
Personally, I've found that just "two decent days on the rock each week" has been sufficient to get to my level - without any extra sessions - outdoors during the spring-autum period, indoors when forced by bad weather. Two sessions per week is plenty if you are pretty dedicated and go at those days in a determined fashion. My main problem is not getting too disprited by my inability to do more than 6 moves in succession at the start of the routes season, after a winter spent bouldering on plastic.
In reply to sebastian dangerfield:
When I was a dedicated boulderer, I did a fair few font7b+s (and the odd 7c that massively suited me). But I then had a bit of a medical issue that reduced my bouldering strength to more like 7a+/b, and I moved to Ilkley - so I took up sport climbing (more for variety than anything else - the prospect of hanging round the same bouldering venues but being unable to even repeat stuff I had done previously, let alone tick anything new, was a bit depressing).
Post edited at 19:10
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
Whatever snoop's actual climbing history (I don't know him), you can indeed get perfectly good for routes just by bouldering.
Last time I did any routes regularly was 2014, when I managed one 7c and failed on a couple more. Then I went bouldering (and fingerboarding of course) for 18 months and did not clip a single bolt either indoors or out. The next two routes I did, this summer, were my first 7c+ and my first 8a (plus a warm-up before the 7c+). I had plateaued for a few years previously and focussing on bouldering was what got me out of that plateau.
I didn't do any circuits indoors either. I had done a lot of boulder traverses as well as short up problems, so I had ok short term power endurance, and i supplemented that with 3 weeks of foot on campus training to get my aerobic performance up after the first couple of sessions on the 7c+. Doing routes as training is completely unnecessary.
In reply to moose/ajm/mischa/engineer et al:
The other interesting bit of this thread about days per week hard climbing... I definitely agree with Mischa about training plans being set up for people who don't want to perform outside every week. I have found a reasonable approach for me has been to have two evening sessions and a weekend session each week, ideally tues/thurs/sunday. The evening sessions can be training or outdoor bouldering. That way I am fit enough for them to have a decent ish session, and fit enough on the Sunday (after two clear rest days) to perform to my max, but still manage 3 sessions in a week, which is enough to keep improving. If timings don't work out one week, then I'll skip a training session rather than only have one day rest if I'm close to a hard project.
It's funny how others' approaches vary - I don't think I could manage two hard performance days evry weekend like moose, I'd always be crap on the Sunday. I'm also lucky in that I have lots to go at as projects in the Peak but also that there is stuff I want to do year round, so my approach stays the same in winter as long as it's dry (I just need a lantern occasionally!)
> Do you think going on a euro sport climbing trip every fortnight might help too?
Whatever snoop's actual climbing history (I don't know him), you can indeed get perfectly good for routes just by bouldering.
Last time I did any routes regularly was 2014, when I managed one 7c and failed on a couple more. Then I went bouldering (and fingerboarding of course) for 18 months and did not clip a single bolt either indoors or out. The next two routes I did, this summer, were my first 7c+ and my first 8a (plus a warm-up before the 7c+). I had plateaued for a few years previously and focussing on bouldering was what got me out of that plateau.
I didn't do any circuits indoors either. I had done a lot of boulder traverses as well as short up problems, so I had ok short term power endurance, and i supplemented that with 3 weeks of foot on campus training to get my aerobic performance up after the first couple of sessions on the 7c+. Doing routes as training is completely unnecessary.
In reply to moose/ajm/mischa/engineer et al:
The other interesting bit of this thread about days per week hard climbing... I definitely agree with Mischa about training plans being set up for people who don't want to perform outside every week. I have found a reasonable approach for me has been to have two evening sessions and a weekend session each week, ideally tues/thurs/sunday. The evening sessions can be training or outdoor bouldering. That way I am fit enough for them to have a decent ish session, and fit enough on the Sunday (after two clear rest days) to perform to my max, but still manage 3 sessions in a week, which is enough to keep improving. If timings don't work out one week, then I'll skip a training session rather than only have one day rest if I'm close to a hard project.
It's funny how others' approaches vary - I don't think I could manage two hard performance days evry weekend like moose, I'd always be crap on the Sunday. I'm also lucky in that I have lots to go at as projects in the Peak but also that there is stuff I want to do year round, so my approach stays the same in winter as long as it's dry (I just need a lantern occasionally!)
Post edited at 21:23
In reply to Si dH:
Yes, I'm sure you're right. Since indoor routes are so sustained whereas outdoor routes here tend to have hard moves and rests (so I've been told, I know nowt about sport climbing), strength training is likely to be key. But knowing snoop, I think his climbing ability has more to do with his actual route climbing than his systematic, dedicated training regime in the bouldering wall
> Whatever snoop's actual climbing history (I don't know him), you can indeed get perfectly good for routes just by bouldering.
Yes, I'm sure you're right. Since indoor routes are so sustained whereas outdoor routes here tend to have hard moves and rests (so I've been told, I know nowt about sport climbing), strength training is likely to be key. But knowing snoop, I think his climbing ability has more to do with his actual route climbing than his systematic, dedicated training regime in the bouldering wall
Post edited at 23:14
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Something that perhaps as an ex boulderer, explains why my hardest O/S at Leeds Wall is 7a, outdoors it's 7c+s!
> Yes, I'm sure you're right. Since indoor routes are so sustained whereas outdoor routes here tend to have hard moves and rests
Something that perhaps as an ex boulderer, explains why my hardest O/S at Leeds Wall is 7a, outdoors it's 7c+s!
In reply to Si dH:
That's true, but then that's probably the intention. Training plans being set up for people who want to 'peak' - presumably because the science behind this kind of planning comes from sports that have particular competitions during the year that athletes want to peak for. You can't expect to climb at your best if you want to climb every weekend - training requires overload, if you're putting the kind of physical effort in to produce a training effect, you're going to be - and should be - too tired to actually perform at the weekend.
That said, due to the large psychological component to climbing, many climbers will never be regularly performing at their physical peak.
> I definitely agree with Mischa about training plans being set up for people who don't want to perform outside every week...
That's true, but then that's probably the intention. Training plans being set up for people who want to 'peak' - presumably because the science behind this kind of planning comes from sports that have particular competitions during the year that athletes want to peak for. You can't expect to climb at your best if you want to climb every weekend - training requires overload, if you're putting the kind of physical effort in to produce a training effect, you're going to be - and should be - too tired to actually perform at the weekend.
That said, due to the large psychological component to climbing, many climbers will never be regularly performing at their physical peak.
1
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
I think the general answer is "it depends" but...
Perhaps once a week to get to around 6a and maintain it. You might even get a 6a+ or an easy 6b.
Maybe twice a week to improve to a steady 6b. Beyond 6b I think you need strength as well, so it's harder to go up levels without training.
I think the general answer is "it depends" but...
Perhaps once a week to get to around 6a and maintain it. You might even get a 6a+ or an easy 6b.
Maybe twice a week to improve to a steady 6b. Beyond 6b I think you need strength as well, so it's harder to go up levels without training.
1
In reply to planetmarshall:
Climbing is also about technique and I'd probably struggle to get better with little time on rock, even if doing plenty of indoor training.
I suspect you're right though if the training is designed to get a particularly hard project done. However training can also be used to increase the general level which you regularly climb at and then it's not so much a case of peaking. This is completely unscientific of course.
Climbing is also about technique and I'd probably struggle to get better with little time on rock, even if doing plenty of indoor training.
I suspect you're right though if the training is designed to get a particularly hard project done. However training can also be used to increase the general level which you regularly climb at and then it's not so much a case of peaking. This is completely unscientific of course.
In reply to Misha:
Yes that's definitely true. many periodized training plans such as those from my current bible "Training for the new Alpinism" assume that you already have the technical skills for your project, and the only thing holding you back is physical fitness. For many climbers, especially those operating in the lower grades, this won't be true - particularly for non-alpine goals.
> Climbing is also about technique and I'd probably struggle to get better with little time on rock, even if doing plenty of indoor training.
Yes that's definitely true. many periodized training plans such as those from my current bible "Training for the new Alpinism" assume that you already have the technical skills for your project, and the only thing holding you back is physical fitness. For many climbers, especially those operating in the lower grades, this won't be true - particularly for non-alpine goals.
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