UKC

The winter conditions reporting page on here shows a number of routes done- and not just snowy ridges, but also a number of gullies, including skew gill and custs gully

Anyone got info about how much snow there was in the gullies- skew Gill in particular is pretty low altitude. With a couple of freeze/thaw cycles, is there enough to have a chance at getting some neve in place before it all melts?

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Lovely day on the tops Saturday, no realistic climbing conditions then. Running today up to 800m. I guess you could bring your surf board ..

In reply to Allovesclimbin:

Yes- I did wonder! But people have been logging stuff. .. just looking for a bit more info about what it's currently like from anyone that's been up there this weekend. ..

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

no snow left. we played in brown cove crags, limited snow,
buttress ok with some frozen turf (and some not). gullies not much snow at all
all gone now

In reply to Allovesclimbin:

Sadly that didn't seem to stop people shredding their way up routes in North Wales and the Lakes who seem to think that the turf being 'mostly frozen' is 'good enough'. I fear that it will need the threat of ban on winter climbing to make all climbers realise that our mountain crags are precious, fragile environments whose protection is more important than the fact that's they've driven four hours and want a route to show for it.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Had an optimistic plan to do something on st Sunday crag on Saturday but it was poor conditions, so gave up and went up helvellyn instead.

It was nice to be out though. Great views when the cloud broke.

In reply to sheelba:


Indeed.

Not to mention the fact that if you go up easy gulleys which are so unconsolidated that you go, quote "chest deep" in snow, you are a disaster waiting to happen. Especially if you are there with your 15 year old son.

One snowflake does not an ice-route make. Nor do routes form overnight, with no consolidation nor remotely enough snow or base to provide it.

In reply to paul_the_northerner:


Much better if everyone had the same attitude, climbing is not remotely on, so best to make a good mountain day of it.

In reply to Simon4:

I'd settle for that at this point- given the forecast for the next week, no snow at all is looking much more likely- may end up turning into a mountain biking weekend instead....

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

In contrast, however,they have at last had some snow in the Alps, after one of the driest (not necessarily warmest) Decembers on record.

Sadly without a base and with pent-up enthusiasm, I fear it is but a matter of time before we see reports of avalanche fatalities.

In reply to Simon4:

Just the idea of swimming up a gully through unconsolidated snow makes me shudder. ..

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Well I was content with a "character building" walk up Snowdon, by the route with the longest vertical interval available. But the ability of some people to convince themselves that ice-routes are there when they patently are not is continually striking, if no longer surprising. Quite apart from the damaging of classic Summer rock routes, which I feel is deeply irresponsible, but probably a lost cause.

On the other hand, the continentals can be quite good at self-deception as well, as I fear we are about to find out when hordes go ski-touring in totally unstable circumstances just because they have been deprived for so long.

In reply to Simon4:

Avalanches will not be the only thing getting them...shark teeth will as they are shredding down what looks like amazing conditions and beautiful powder fields. Limited base layer means LOTS of boulders and stumps...off-piste has not been asceptized (spelling?) like the bull-dozed pistes! Beware.

In reply to Simon4:

Not sure if they were skiers or walkers but there were some avalanche victims in the Pyrenees yesterday

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Hmmm, looking up from corridor route on sunday it wouldn't surprise me if people got up a few frozen icefalls with justification on Saturday. Ice looked blue & fatter than I was expecting. Bit fragile looking though and ice screws would be a bit of a joke I reckon. I wasn't climbing myself however, not into this chasing shadows malarkey.

In reply to French Erick:


Yup, skis will be destroyed by badly covered boulders, as will bits of people attached to them. Unless they are on pistes where the resorts will desperately bash the one dump to iron hard ice, to try to keep it for as long as possible and pretend that they are in working condition.

Looked at Meteo France this morning, they are forecasting sunshine and cold for as far as the eye can see, so just what they DONT want. Mind, last week they were forecasting a week of heavy snow and fronts for this week, so what do they know?

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

We were in the Great End area Saturday and didn't look like there was much in the gullies at all.
We met some people from the NT who were working with BMC and were busy putting a ground level temperature monitoring system in to provide info to climbers to reduce the chances of flora damage on the crag, Apparently there's quite a bit of rare stuff up there and climbing when the turf is soft does lots of damage to these.
mark

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
A report from DSM here.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=656680

In reply to MarkAstley:

Sounds great if we're going to get the same as Cwm Idwal Winter Climbing Information Project for great end!

In reply to MarkAstley:

It's great to see support for this. My girlfriend is a botanist so I'm forced to be a bit more aware than most about these things. Effectively a long history of upland grazing in our mountain areas means that often rare alpine flora of this country only survives on cliff faces which sheep could not reach. Many of these faces simply haven't been surveyed so we don't know what we might be losing.

Climbings rise in popularity has unfortunately coincided with warmer winters which encourage people to go out when it's marginal. If you've made the effort to slog up a steep ascent you're more likely to manage to persuade yourself that a route is 'in' even if it's not. You only have to go to the Northern corries in summer and stare up at the bare streaks that form up winter routes to realise what damage this can do.

We went for a walk in Snowdonia on Saturday despite my friend driving all the way from Bristol and there was a fair number of other disappointed looking climbers traipsing around the Carneddau too (and yes the surface of the turf was frozen in places). I think there is a good amount of awareness about this but I still feel there is more to be made. The default in marginal conditions if there's doubt should be a no rather than a yes. It is also of course everyone's responsibility as it's very galling if other people are out climbing when you've made a conservation minded decision not to.

In reply to French Erick:


Spelling? Im not even sure it's a word! ;O))

In reply to Rog Wilko:

His name says he is French.

I think we all know what he means.

In reply to sheelba:

Well Said.

To those that have missed it, the BMC winter project's turf temperature measuring stations results can be found here. It should be considered an essential utility to anyone wanting to swing an Axe in North Wales.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/idwal

It's great to hear a station is being installed in the Lakes as well.

In reply to lithos:
Also in brown cove on saterday and agree with the general assessment. Only a few cms of snow, but turf on buttresses was frozen where exposed and the first pitch of right buttress crack was icy. Summer step was actually a really good bet being mainly snowed up rock and espoused turf on the edge. Good day to be out. All will be long gone now though sadly

In reply to RM199:

yes i assume it was you we saw soling above us (group of 4)

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

That temperature sensor on Great End mentioned by Mark Astley in the thread above is now live.
Air temp is minus 3.65 degrees at present
See news article on front page of UKC or BMC link
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/live-lake-district-winter-conditions-monitoring

In reply to Lostsky:

And the turf isn't frozen

In reply to Dave Cumberland:
Warm and wet earlier in week followed by snow, not a great combo
Proper baltic today in the east wind through

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: Buttress routes stripped on Browncove Crags today, turf unfrozen where insulated but frozen where exposed. Ice forming but no climbable. Gullies in amazing bomber neve condition suprisinlgy enough.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10208484395124176&id=113623...

In reply to Dave Cumberland: keep it up Dave I always have and always will love your arm chair conditions reports.

In reply to Wesley Orvis:
I was solely referring to the new monitor at Great End, which shows that the turf is not frozen.
I believe the whole point of a remote monitoring station is to know what the conditions are from an armchair somewhere, not that I have been sitting in one.
Keep your abuse to yourself.
DC

In reply to Dave Cumberland:
sorry Dave I thought you were still up for a good debate I sincerely apologise if I have insulted you.