UKC

In reply to Toerag:

Can't provide stats as such, but would suggest it's more or less minimal, compared to other incidents and injuries amongst the same demographic.
However the main point in the discussion should revolve around the ensuing law suit that would no doubt fall on the wall that doesn't have a helmet policy and the incident does happen!

In reply to Tomtom:

Best practice army would have a field day if under 18s did not have a helmet on and bumped their heads.

In reply to Tomtom:

So what about the instances where a climber of that demographic has fallen and sustained an injury which is directly attributed to wearing a helmet? (straps catching on hold and causing neck injury for example).

In reply to Tomtom:


One would hope that the "you take responsibilty for what you put on your head youself" policy should apply.
Requiring users to wear a harness and use ropes and belay plates competantly prevents people injuring others by falling on them but not wearing a helmet on risks your own health and you should accept responsibilty for that.

In reply to pec:


For an adult, yes. But then walls should always offer adults helmets free of charge, and they can make an informed choice as an adult. Youth can't apparently make that informed choice. It's a duty of care thing.

To pjc, very true, and it does happen. But ask insurers and lawyers about removing PPE to improve safety. As mentioned above the best practice army would have a field day! Sensible walls will enforce a no helmet policy where helmets are more likely to increase injury, or make it difficult to problem solve if one were to arise. I.e bouldering and autobelay.

In reply to Toerag:

Younger children's heads are proportionally heavier than their body and strength compared to teens and adults. They tend to flip upside down unless in a body harness. Extending it to 18yr olds seems excessive.

In reply to Tomtom:


Why should they be free of chrage? Walls don't offer the use of ropes or harnesses free.
Re youths, the groups of kids under instruction usually seem to have helmets on and they only top rope anyway which makes the chance of hitting your head about the same as it does in a game of football.
I would have thought that kids not in a group were the responsibilty of the adult accompanying them.

While helmet use is pretty clear cut outside there are concerns with helmet use indoors and there have been accidents with kids being hung by helmets that have been caught on holds. In particular, I think this is a issue with auto belay systems where the climber may not be closely attended and immediate rescue might be difficult.

Pretty much like helmets on bikes, what appears on first sight to be an obvious benefit, turns out to be more complex.

I did recently see a group of inexperienced kids climbing indoors in helmets. Judging from general air of unfamiliarity with the world of climbing I'd say that no one really understood the risk profile well and they'd just gone for the obvious, "more must be better" approach.

In reply to pec:


Shouldn't we be encouraging things like helmets? Granted most will never volunteer to wear on at a wall, but Ill always wear one outside. Set good habits early right? What problems to helmets cause that can't easily be remedied?
Harness you need or you can't climb (on routes of course) same for ropes. Helmets you don't. So why charge for something that people don't necessarily need, and will turn down. Free helmet hire will encourage use, which can only be a good thing.

Correct. I can't speak for many walls, but one I know in particular has the policy of helmets on instructed sessions. Parents supervising can make the choice. Goes back to the duty of care thing. Wouldn't surprise me if this is the standard accross the board.

In reply to Tomtom:


It isn't the standard across the board. My son (aged 6) goes to climbing club at one of our local walls. This is an instructed session with mostly top roping. People in his kids' club don't wear helmets. There are older groups too, and I have never seen anyone wear a helmet.

In reply to Toerag:

The main reason for making kids in instructed groups wear helmets is so you can pick them out easily from everyone else.

In reply to Toerag:

I don't think I've ever seen a boulderer with a helmet (maybe beanie hats protect them?) so I've always assumed crag helmets were to protect against falling rocks or hardware. Not much use an an indoor wall on this basis.

That said, kids have softer skulls, and I have whacked my head a few times, so maybe it's of benefit to protect them from getting knocks on holds?

I believe there has been a couple of injuries where the helmet has been caught on a hold and the chin strap hasnt released... contact your ABC www.abcwalls.co.uk/. Im sure they could provide you with plenty... i know there was a bad one in the US that was shared on anothrr forum had pics of marks left by chin strap digging in

In reply to Toerag:


I've never seen it happen but I saw one fall where it was really close. Someone fell on a vertical wall got flipped over by the rope, swung in and smashed against the wall with their shoulder. They were fine but there were some really big jugs on that section of wall and six inches in the other direction and the inverted fall could have resulted in head against a sticking-out jug rather than shoulder against the flat plywood.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Saw it only last weekend at a wall - climber for some reason scraped sideways down vertical wall - his harness looked too loose to me though

In reply to Toerag:

I think there's some logic in wearing one insofar that a broken leg/arm will generally heal, whereas a head injury can have life-changing consequences...

In reply to Lukem6:


There was an example on here a few months back: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=647120