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Thinking about an ascent this summer and just wondered for those of you that have done it, how was it? Would you do it again?
Reading various reports on the internet and they seem to range from ‘its just a long scramble with a bit of exposure’ to ‘it’s a bloody serious and dangerous undertaking’.
Seems like booking a local guide might make it more enjoyable and give first dibs on the route from the Hornli hut in the morning. Anyone done this? How was it?
Are the slow traffic and bottlenecks as bad as I’ve heard? Was there anything you wish you’d have known beforehand? Anything you’d have done differently looking back?
Hardest biggish mountain I've climbed at present is Alpamayo in Peru. From glacier camp to summit and back in a fairly respectable 8hrs with a local guide. Sound okay experience for the Matterhorn?
Andy
Reading various reports on the internet and they seem to range from ‘its just a long scramble with a bit of exposure’ to ‘it’s a bloody serious and dangerous undertaking’.
Seems like booking a local guide might make it more enjoyable and give first dibs on the route from the Hornli hut in the morning. Anyone done this? How was it?
Are the slow traffic and bottlenecks as bad as I’ve heard? Was there anything you wish you’d have known beforehand? Anything you’d have done differently looking back?
Hardest biggish mountain I've climbed at present is Alpamayo in Peru. From glacier camp to summit and back in a fairly respectable 8hrs with a local guide. Sound okay experience for the Matterhorn?
Andy
One of the good things about climbing so many peaks around Zermatt is the views of the dramatic steep pyramid of the Matterhorn from different angles.
The Matterhorn summit is unique in _not_ offering that special view.
Would I do it again (Hoernli ridge route)?
No.
The Matterhorn summit is unique in _not_ offering that special view.
Would I do it again (Hoernli ridge route)?
No.
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In reply to Northern Star:
I think many people would regard climbing Alpamayo as a rather more serious and technically difficult enterprise than the Matterhorn, probably a whole division higher, though its quite a different enterprise altogether, one is an ice route the other a rock climb.
I've never climbed the Hornli, the tales of crowds and loose rock put me off but I have climbed the Italian ridge which is generally considered to be a better route anyway and I also prefer the Italians to the Swiss
On the Italian (Lion) Ridge the rock is generally very good with only one short, quite easy section on poor rock. Rockfall risk is minimal and there should be fewer people. Its essentially a lot of moving together over scrambling terrain with a few steps of Mod/Diff/V.Diff and a couple of steeper bits with in situ chains or rope ladders which you will probably pitch. Its mostly very protectable with a modest rack.
It does get a lot harder with snow on it so climbing it after a dry spell makes it easier.
I'd certainly climb it again, in fact I intend to this summer!
I think many people would regard climbing Alpamayo as a rather more serious and technically difficult enterprise than the Matterhorn, probably a whole division higher, though its quite a different enterprise altogether, one is an ice route the other a rock climb.
I've never climbed the Hornli, the tales of crowds and loose rock put me off but I have climbed the Italian ridge which is generally considered to be a better route anyway and I also prefer the Italians to the Swiss
On the Italian (Lion) Ridge the rock is generally very good with only one short, quite easy section on poor rock. Rockfall risk is minimal and there should be fewer people. Its essentially a lot of moving together over scrambling terrain with a few steps of Mod/Diff/V.Diff and a couple of steeper bits with in situ chains or rope ladders which you will probably pitch. Its mostly very protectable with a modest rack.
It does get a lot harder with snow on it so climbing it after a dry spell makes it easier.
I'd certainly climb it again, in fact I intend to this summer!
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In reply to pec:
So did you descend the Lion ridge as well? I was under the impression that its descent was quite a serious undertaking, so you finished up suffering "Hell on the Hornli" anyway, going down.
> I have climbed the Italian ridge which is generally considered to be a better route anyway
So did you descend the Lion ridge as well? I was under the impression that its descent was quite a serious undertaking, so you finished up suffering "Hell on the Hornli" anyway, going down.
In reply to Northern Star:
It's such a beautiful and iconic peak that I think it's hard to resist getting on it once you've been to Zermatt and stared upwards. Of course, the difficulty is very conditions dependent. We tried the Hornli route under a significant coating of snow and verglass when there were only two other teams on the mountain. Crampons and axes most of the way. We were still pretty inexperienced and moved so slowly that we had to turn back at the Solvay (no bivvy gear), but it was a privileged experience looking back down and seeing only a couple of tracks in the snow. Went back the next year and luckily got on it just as it was coming into reasonable summer condition: boots most of the way. I'd guess there were probably around 60 other people on it, but you could probably get 200 at peak time. No major hold ups. I'd say it's a very long scramble with a lot of exposure and a couple of bits you might want to pitch. Obviously you need to watch out for loose stuff - but this is the Alps. I had a big chunk come off in both hands and was very lucky we had roped up by then. A soloist a few minutes ahead of us slipped at the Shoulder and fell to his death.
We didn't bother with a guide. Scoped out the first part of the route the afternoon before, having made sure we arrived at the hut early. But in the early morning darkness there are so many guided parties on a good conditions day that if you solo and move fast you shouldn't get lost.
I'd do it again, though I'd go for another route for the sake of variety. I know some people say it's a circus, but I didn't feel that. We were lucky enough to do it on Swiss National Day, so when we got back to the chairlift there was a party going on and they plied us with free food and drink while we watched looked down on a firework display over Zermatt. Magical.
It's such a beautiful and iconic peak that I think it's hard to resist getting on it once you've been to Zermatt and stared upwards. Of course, the difficulty is very conditions dependent. We tried the Hornli route under a significant coating of snow and verglass when there were only two other teams on the mountain. Crampons and axes most of the way. We were still pretty inexperienced and moved so slowly that we had to turn back at the Solvay (no bivvy gear), but it was a privileged experience looking back down and seeing only a couple of tracks in the snow. Went back the next year and luckily got on it just as it was coming into reasonable summer condition: boots most of the way. I'd guess there were probably around 60 other people on it, but you could probably get 200 at peak time. No major hold ups. I'd say it's a very long scramble with a lot of exposure and a couple of bits you might want to pitch. Obviously you need to watch out for loose stuff - but this is the Alps. I had a big chunk come off in both hands and was very lucky we had roped up by then. A soloist a few minutes ahead of us slipped at the Shoulder and fell to his death.
We didn't bother with a guide. Scoped out the first part of the route the afternoon before, having made sure we arrived at the hut early. But in the early morning darkness there are so many guided parties on a good conditions day that if you solo and move fast you shouldn't get lost.
I'd do it again, though I'd go for another route for the sake of variety. I know some people say it's a circus, but I didn't feel that. We were lucky enough to do it on Swiss National Day, so when we got back to the chairlift there was a party going on and they plied us with free food and drink while we watched looked down on a firework display over Zermatt. Magical.
4
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In reply to Andy Clarke:
Yes that's what I thought having snowboarded underneath it a few times, looking upwards in awe.
Lion Ridge sounds very exciting, will look into that, however quite fancy having a bash at the traditional route first due to all the history and talk about it.
So Hornli Route, in good conditions would you compare it to an extra long exposed grade 3 scramble, (perhaps like a longer mid season tower ridge) with the odd short rock pitch and patch of snow/ice to negotiate? Of course the descent looks like it would require a bit more care!
> It's such a beautiful and iconic peak that I think it's hard to resist getting on it once you've been to Zermatt and stared upwards.
Yes that's what I thought having snowboarded underneath it a few times, looking upwards in awe.
Lion Ridge sounds very exciting, will look into that, however quite fancy having a bash at the traditional route first due to all the history and talk about it.
So Hornli Route, in good conditions would you compare it to an extra long exposed grade 3 scramble, (perhaps like a longer mid season tower ridge) with the odd short rock pitch and patch of snow/ice to negotiate? Of course the descent looks like it would require a bit more care!
1
In reply to Northern Star:
I misread that for a moment as "having snowboarded it a few times" and was well impressed!
Yes, though with a great deal of mayhem in good conditions from the circus. Also very sustained.
A great deal of care.
It is more or less continuous climbing/scrambling, there is virtually no strolling along with hands in pockets bits, just a very long interval of not very difficult but still serious movement over not very nice ground, right up to when you get back to the hut.
> Yes that's what I thought having snowboarded underneath it a few times, looking upwards in awe.
I misread that for a moment as "having snowboarded it a few times" and was well impressed!
> So Hornli Route, in good conditions would you compare it to an extra long exposed grade 3 scramble, with the odd short rock pitch and patch of snow/ice to negotiate?
Yes, though with a great deal of mayhem in good conditions from the circus. Also very sustained.
> Of course the descent looks like it would require a bit more care!
A great deal of care.
It is more or less continuous climbing/scrambling, there is virtually no strolling along with hands in pockets bits, just a very long interval of not very difficult but still serious movement over not very nice ground, right up to when you get back to the hut.
1
In reply to Simon4:
A good description.
Have a strategy for protecting yourselves on the fixed rope sections in descent.
One of the most distressing moments I have had in the hills, was to watch and listen to a French lady just below me, when, unroped, she lost her footing and was hanging on for her life. I had to look away because I calculated it would be futile and probably counter productive to try to reach her in time. Fortunately she regained her footing but I will never forget the screaming.
It might be better for more recent descenders of the Hornli to comment of the state and diameter of the fixed ropes and anchors.
> A great deal of care.
> It is more or less continuous climbing/scrambling, there is virtually no strolling along with hands in pockets bits, just a very long interval of not very difficult but still serious movement over not very nice ground, right up to when you get back to the hut.
A good description.
Have a strategy for protecting yourselves on the fixed rope sections in descent.
One of the most distressing moments I have had in the hills, was to watch and listen to a French lady just below me, when, unroped, she lost her footing and was hanging on for her life. I had to look away because I calculated it would be futile and probably counter productive to try to reach her in time. Fortunately she regained her footing but I will never forget the screaming.
It might be better for more recent descenders of the Hornli to comment of the state and diameter of the fixed ropes and anchors.
In reply to Northern Star:
The Hornli route is very easy technically but is very steep and, subject to your ability, can be done solo (just don't trip over). It is stupidly packed in summer. In winter it is a huge and serious challenge. I've done the route a few times in summer and winter. It is easy to stray off route on the 'scrambly' bits in poor weather but you soon become aware of your error. The main snag being it all adds to your time and effort. When you get off early and are ahead of the crowds there is payback on the way down when you come across the inevitable queues coming up plus irritable guides. Then you have the pleasure of all the crap being dislodged onto you. Depends on luck/good judgement how you plan your start time. For an unguided first attempt You could choose to follow a guide with their client at a respectful distance. Get up to the Hornli hut at a reasonable time and check the start of the route out first to save time in the darkness. Don't be afraid to 'bail' out if the queues are too large and have a second objective. Get as fit as you can and then some more. Enjoy it.
The Hornli route is very easy technically but is very steep and, subject to your ability, can be done solo (just don't trip over). It is stupidly packed in summer. In winter it is a huge and serious challenge. I've done the route a few times in summer and winter. It is easy to stray off route on the 'scrambly' bits in poor weather but you soon become aware of your error. The main snag being it all adds to your time and effort. When you get off early and are ahead of the crowds there is payback on the way down when you come across the inevitable queues coming up plus irritable guides. Then you have the pleasure of all the crap being dislodged onto you. Depends on luck/good judgement how you plan your start time. For an unguided first attempt You could choose to follow a guide with their client at a respectful distance. Get up to the Hornli hut at a reasonable time and check the start of the route out first to save time in the darkness. Don't be afraid to 'bail' out if the queues are too large and have a second objective. Get as fit as you can and then some more. Enjoy it.
In reply to Northern Star:
Check the first thrid of the route out at the start, absolutely essential. We didn't as we got to the hut late after our warm up climb, and we were way too slow as a result.
Be aware of others - two unguided parties in front of us climbed the wrong way up after the first couloir crossing. A ledge collapsed under them, sending a large number of big blocks tele sized blocks down the gully as we were about to enter. I dread to think what would have happened if I had not stopped to adjust my boots earlier on. Quite a wake up call to the loosness when you stray from the route.
Check the first thrid of the route out at the start, absolutely essential. We didn't as we got to the hut late after our warm up climb, and we were way too slow as a result.
Be aware of others - two unguided parties in front of us climbed the wrong way up after the first couloir crossing. A ledge collapsed under them, sending a large number of big blocks tele sized blocks down the gully as we were about to enter. I dread to think what would have happened if I had not stopped to adjust my boots earlier on. Quite a wake up call to the loosness when you stray from the route.
In reply to Simon4:
Yes we descended the Lion the way we'd come. Logistically this is easier because you can base yourself in Cervinia and don't have problems getting back to your starting point.
I wouldn't say descending was any more serious or harder than the climb up other than you're more tired but then its not dark for some of it (hopefully!).
In descent you can abseil the Echelle Jordan and Corde Tyndall, otherwise you move together placing gear as you did in ascent.
We, and the other parties that day, took about the same time in ascent as descent so its not an "easy" descent, but not serious either, essentially you repeat the climb. We also spent both the night before and after the climb in the Carrel Hut as everybody else did, you'd have to be quite fast to get all the way down the same day.
Of course getting to the Carrel is a climb in its own right.
> So did you descend the Lion ridge as well? I was under the impression that its descent was quite a serious undertaking, so you finished up suffering "Hell on the Hornli" anyway, going down. >
Yes we descended the Lion the way we'd come. Logistically this is easier because you can base yourself in Cervinia and don't have problems getting back to your starting point.
I wouldn't say descending was any more serious or harder than the climb up other than you're more tired but then its not dark for some of it (hopefully!).
In descent you can abseil the Echelle Jordan and Corde Tyndall, otherwise you move together placing gear as you did in ascent.
We, and the other parties that day, took about the same time in ascent as descent so its not an "easy" descent, but not serious either, essentially you repeat the climb. We also spent both the night before and after the climb in the Carrel Hut as everybody else did, you'd have to be quite fast to get all the way down the same day.
Of course getting to the Carrel is a climb in its own right.
2
In reply to Simon4:
Its stuff like that, crowds and loose rock, that made me opt for the Lion Ridge. Its harder climbing (though not hard), and sustained but other than one short section (100m perhaps) of shaley rock which can't be protected but which is quite easy, the rock is all very good and well protectable.
> . . . . a great deal of mayhem in good conditions from the circus. Also very sustained. >
> . . . . not very difficult but still serious movement over not very nice ground, right up to when you get back to the hut. >
Its stuff like that, crowds and loose rock, that made me opt for the Lion Ridge. Its harder climbing (though not hard), and sustained but other than one short section (100m perhaps) of shaley rock which can't be protected but which is quite easy, the rock is all very good and well protectable.
1
In reply to pec:
If it's as loose as people are saying then it might be worth getting a guide (if my regular climbing buddies don't fancy it). That way at least I'll be roped to someone or something should something give way. Either way sounds like I need to practice some short roping. Cneifion Arete here we come (perhaps followed by Yr Esgair to get the full loose rock experience)!
Pec, guessing the Lion ridge is no where near as busy?
If it's as loose as people are saying then it might be worth getting a guide (if my regular climbing buddies don't fancy it). That way at least I'll be roped to someone or something should something give way. Either way sounds like I need to practice some short roping. Cneifion Arete here we come (perhaps followed by Yr Esgair to get the full loose rock experience)!
Pec, guessing the Lion ridge is no where near as busy?
In reply to Northern Star:
>You jest! Suffered 120 at the Carrel hut one unfortunate day in July last summer (space for 40). It wasn't even a nice day up there - bitter cold, strong northerly wind and iced up on all northern aspects. Not a lot of fun. It was a good forecast though.
Such a contrast from when I did it in 1992 - fabric boots (KSBs), a thermal and a fleece. Left crampons behind, axe a token gesture.
>You jest! Suffered 120 at the Carrel hut one unfortunate day in July last summer (space for 40). It wasn't even a nice day up there - bitter cold, strong northerly wind and iced up on all northern aspects. Not a lot of fun. It was a good forecast though.
Such a contrast from when I did it in 1992 - fabric boots (KSBs), a thermal and a fleece. Left crampons behind, axe a token gesture.
> Pec, guessing the Lion ridge is no where near as busy?
Post edited at 17:52
1
In reply to Northern Star:
Based on my experience of it versus other people's experience of the Hornli it certainly seems that way. It also has a reputation for being less busy but a better climb, though harder. Generally far fewer people approach the Pennine Alps from the Italian side than the Swiss and I'd imagine most people using guides go for the Hornli because its an easier climb.
> Pec, guessing the Lion ridge is no where near as busy? >
Based on my experience of it versus other people's experience of the Hornli it certainly seems that way. It also has a reputation for being less busy but a better climb, though harder. Generally far fewer people approach the Pennine Alps from the Italian side than the Swiss and I'd imagine most people using guides go for the Hornli because its an easier climb.
In reply to Tim Sparrow:
Blimey, that's mad. There were only 5 or 6 parties the day we did it which was in August so peak season.
Was it a weekend or Italian public holiday when it was that busy?
> >You jest! Suffered 120 at the Carrel hut one unfortunate day in July last summer . >
Blimey, that's mad. There were only 5 or 6 parties the day we did it which was in August so peak season.
Was it a weekend or Italian public holiday when it was that busy?
1
In reply to pec:
It was a Friday, so they went up on the Thursday. No national holiday either, no idea why there were so many. The few who sumitted got up at some unearthly hour - 1am onward (at least giving us a bit of bed space!). We slept in (left at 7am) and didn't! Spent a lot of time going against the flow of those who just went to Pic Tyndall. I have never had to wear that warm jacket in the bottom of the sack in 30 yrs of summer alping, this year it was all on and still not enough!
It was a Friday, so they went up on the Thursday. No national holiday either, no idea why there were so many. The few who sumitted got up at some unearthly hour - 1am onward (at least giving us a bit of bed space!). We slept in (left at 7am) and didn't! Spent a lot of time going against the flow of those who just went to Pic Tyndall. I have never had to wear that warm jacket in the bottom of the sack in 30 yrs of summer alping, this year it was all on and still not enough!
In reply to Tim Sparrow:
There's part of the answer, then. Peaks like the Matterhorn are always notably busier at the end of the week as they are usually climbers' ultimate goal for the week. But 120 in the Carrel is a bit much!
When I did it there were probably 30ish in the Carrel. We, however, 'slept' in the Savoia garden shed which was just above the Carrel. http://www.guidedelcervino.com/content.asp?ID=25 Rarely have I endured such a cold wet night in a hut. So much so that we were up and out before anyone else from the Carrel and first on top arriving with the first from the Hörnli, which we then descended. Looks like the old hut was lifted off in sections and taken down to the valley where it was reassembed and placed in front of the Cervinia guides' office where it stands as a sort of museum.
> It was a Friday, so they went up on the Thursday.
There's part of the answer, then. Peaks like the Matterhorn are always notably busier at the end of the week as they are usually climbers' ultimate goal for the week. But 120 in the Carrel is a bit much!
When I did it there were probably 30ish in the Carrel. We, however, 'slept' in the Savoia garden shed which was just above the Carrel. http://www.guidedelcervino.com/content.asp?ID=25 Rarely have I endured such a cold wet night in a hut. So much so that we were up and out before anyone else from the Carrel and first on top arriving with the first from the Hörnli, which we then descended. Looks like the old hut was lifted off in sections and taken down to the valley where it was reassembed and placed in front of the Cervinia guides' office where it stands as a sort of museum.
1
In reply to jon:
Jon's top tip! Ta.
They were certainly mainly guided groups. I am sure it will have put many off!
So, avoid Thursday, Friday, Saturday, go up Sunday.
Jon's top tip! Ta.
They were certainly mainly guided groups. I am sure it will have put many off!
So, avoid Thursday, Friday, Saturday, go up Sunday.
Post edited at 16:00
In reply to Tim Sparrow:
I'll bear that in mind this summer as my wife wants to climb it, so Mon or Tues it is!
Out of curiosity, do you know why so many were only going as far as Pic Tyndall? That seems completely pointless.
> It was a Friday, so they went up on the Thursday. . . . . . Spent a lot of time going against the flow of those who just went to Pic Tyndall. >
I'll bear that in mind this summer as my wife wants to climb it, so Mon or Tues it is!
Out of curiosity, do you know why so many were only going as far as Pic Tyndall? That seems completely pointless.
In reply to Tim Sparrow:
That was a grand day out eh Tim Probably one of my most enjoyable fun days out in the mountains; the fixed gear was a right laugh to use. We left the hut at 9am, back by 5pm, in KSBs.
> Such a contrast from when I did it in 1992 - fabric boots (KSBs), a thermal and a fleece. Left crampons behind, axe a token gesture.
That was a grand day out eh Tim Probably one of my most enjoyable fun days out in the mountains; the fixed gear was a right laugh to use. We left the hut at 9am, back by 5pm, in KSBs.
1
In reply to ChrisJD:
Can you tell us a bit more about that? In what way it was entertaining?
> That was a grand day out eh Tim Probably one of my most enjoyable fun days out in the mountains; the fixed gear was a right laugh to use.
Can you tell us a bit more about that? In what way it was entertaining?
2
In reply to pec:
Thanks for that info, it is JUST possible I might try the Italian ridge this Summer, as a bribe for another 2 peaks that I really want to do.
The Schreckhorn interestingly also took nearly as long in descent as ascent, making a very long and physical day overall
> We, and the other parties that day, took about the same time in ascent as descent so its not an "easy" descent
Thanks for that info, it is JUST possible I might try the Italian ridge this Summer, as a bribe for another 2 peaks that I really want to do.
The Schreckhorn interestingly also took nearly as long in descent as ascent, making a very long and physical day overall
In reply to ChrisJD:
It was a route I always wanted to do. The Echelle Jordan is obviously in an amazing position.
It was a route I always wanted to do. The Echelle Jordan is obviously in an amazing position.
1
1
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
A 2 lane ladder - one for going up, one for going down. Maybe not recommended
A 2 lane ladder - one for going up, one for going down. Maybe not recommended
1
In reply to Northern Star:
Soloed in July 1998, up and down the Hornli.
The mountain was very quiet after a longish spell of poor weather. Only 3 others summitted that day.
On reflection I think I was a bit daft to solo it, but it was my way of celebrating my 40th birthday ! It could well have been my last as you're only one slip away from death the whole time you are on the mountain.
It is a beautiful mountain ( see photo in my gallery) and I don't think I've ever felt so good as I did that day, contemplating what I had achieved.
Soloed in July 1998, up and down the Hornli.
The mountain was very quiet after a longish spell of poor weather. Only 3 others summitted that day.
On reflection I think I was a bit daft to solo it, but it was my way of celebrating my 40th birthday ! It could well have been my last as you're only one slip away from death the whole time you are on the mountain.
It is a beautiful mountain ( see photo in my gallery) and I don't think I've ever felt so good as I did that day, contemplating what I had achieved.
1
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