UKC

No match for crag id:16859i see someone logged sharp edge on Saturday under a winter ascent. This could be confusing to others considering it was in summer condition. No snow anywhere. I have put a photo up in the scramble section if you want a look.

In reply to nicjbuk:
This happens all the time in the logbooks especially on those 'do them in any nick' routes. Someone logged D Gully Buttress on the Buchaille on Saturday and the Aonach Eagach on Sunday.

In reply to nicjbuk:

I was on sharp edge on Saturday, an I have witnessed colder spring days.
sharp edge itself was bone dry and not a spec of ice on it.

In reply to nicjbuk:

Someone even logged Crest Route (V 7) on Wednesday! (Summit of the Buachaille was wet and snowless). Unsurprisingly they kept it "anon" and "dnf".

The conditions page is very subjective and thus fundamentally flawed. Despite the wish-fulfilling blurb it does not tell you "what's in nick" nor "what the prospects are"... you need a weather forecast for that!

In reply to Jamie B:

Presumably dnf because they got there, hoped there'd be ice somewhere, realise there wasn't, and lowered off. Nothing wrong with logging that if so, though a comment would be nice!

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Except that if you're skimming through you'll just see it as logged. It's a snowed-up rock route, there was no snow and it was well above freezing- struggling to think why they attempted it far less logged it?!

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I don't think anyone would expect to find much ice on Crest Route, in any season! I can understand deciding not to attempt it but it seems strange to actually start up the thing.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

I'd kind of assumed that the Crest Route one was more of a DNS than a DNF.

A little bit of reading between the lines is required when using the Winter Conditions page and a comment often helps to clarify.

In reply to DaveHK:


Perhaps, but why would anyone log a route they didn't even start?

In reply to nicjbuk:

Happens the other way round as well, people logging scrambles / easy routes under their winter entries due to the names being the same. For scrambles in particular the grades might look the same as well.

In reply to nicjbuk:

I see that Ueli Steck has logged an ascent of Dorsal arete, does that mean the winter has officialy started, get in.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Can't believe you got four likes for such a dumb post.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


As a reminder for themselves? Some people use logbooks as a way to tell other people what they've done. But some (most?) use them as a personal record.

In reply to nicjbuk:

You are a moaning ......beep. Until you moved up from Essexville you had never even seen snow. Apart from Artic warfare in Norway that is. So get a life. Oh and I'll see you next Saturday night, unless you can't get down from Arbroath because of the deep snow. LOL

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


I can understand keeping a personal record which includes failures (which can be as interesting as successes). I would have no desire to keep a record of every route I walked away from because it wasn't in nick! (but each to their own)

In reply to nicjbuk:

Somebody logged Green Gully on the Ben yesterday. Having walked past it today and basically seen nothing there, this feels barely credible. The conditions page is liable to get someone killed, please end it.

In reply to Jamie B:

I like it. All you have to do is use your common sense, if someone is killed - it won't be the conditions page to blame.

Granted, there are some very odd entries but generally it gives quite a good gauge of what's going on. I must confess it's generally the lower grade entries I have a bit more scepticism for.

In reply to Jamie B:


An engineer's solution is to add 'thresholding' before any winter logs are shown. I.e. if only 1-2 winter logs are done, it's probably anomalous. If it was 30 - it's probably legit.

In reply to Jamie B:

Is the problem loose rock?

In reply to Jamie B:
Hmmm this was me, there was snow/ ice all the up the 4/5 pitches (though thin in places). However... we could have been on the wrong route? Everything seemed to match up though.

In reply to guy127917:


You'd have to be a total Muppet to mistake Green Gully for something else. Plus, I can't imagine you could or would want to climb it without ice so it sound like fair game to me.

In reply to Jamie B:

That's a wee bit melodramatic Jamie. It's just another source of info and the key with all the info we get about the hills is knowing how to use it. Even a detailed and accurate avalanche forecast can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

Edit: in fact I've proven I can't be trusted to use that info properly!

In reply to SenzuBean:


Wouldn't work for the North West!

In reply to DaveHK:

Haha I'm 95% sure (first time climbing on Ben Nevis)

In reply to SenzuBean:


What about perfectly legit but obscure routes that don't get climbed very often? Can't see that kind of system working for anything but the popular routes.

I do agree that changes probably need to be made to the logbook system for winter routes, though.

In reply to guy127917:

Got any photos? Not trying to start a trial by UKC but it would be interesting to see. Former editor of UKC posted pics yesterday of him and his partner ice climbing on the Little Brenva Face (they are on the British mountain guide's training) so there seems to be some ice to climb on the Ben if you look in the right places.

In reply to TobyA:

Yep no worries, though it dumped yesterday (at least in the gorms) so maybe not so relevant now. Not great photos I'm afraid all from the top and none of the real ice sections.

https://goo.gl/photos/zKuf93PseVuH191KA
https://goo.gl/photos/VrwXkBnAryNuTUDG6
https://goo.gl/photos/iF8RxKbF3nfGLgxs6

In reply to guy127917:

I stand corrected! Good effort - was the first pitch complete or did you traverse in from the right?

In reply to Jamie B:

The first pitch was complete but by far the sketchiest, there was enough ice to tempt me into doing it but not enough to be particularly secure. Surprisingly sparse protection as well given the rock was mostly exposed.

In reply to guy127917:
its quite typical in Scotland that gullies are low on rock gear, although obviously some locations are better than others in this regard. I tend to assume rock protection won't be that good (especially without pegs) - its better to be pleasantly surprised there is some than the other way around anyways...

Good effort climbing GG when even the local guides / instructors thought it wasn't in BTW.

In reply to guy127917:

Well done for a) going for a look and b) getting your just rewards.

In reply to nicjbuk:
Winter returns
http://www.mwis.org.uk/pdf/weather-forecasts/WH-MWI-WM11094_2017-02-03_1255...
http://weather.unisys.com/gfs/gfs.php?inv=0&plot=850®ion=eu&t=9p

In reply to DaveHK:


I know, I meant in general. I.e. if only 2 routes are being done a day in the whole country, it's pretty much safe to assume nothing is in.

In reply to SenzuBean:

Not if those 2 routes are high on ben nevis.

In reply to joem: There was an inch of snow on Scafell first thing this morning...

In reply to johnt:
Been really warm in lakes during last week, 11c at valley level and warm nights, most likely soggy under the snow

In reply to John Kelly: It rained most of last night whilst we were camping out but as it got colder it turned to snow for the final few hours... it was a pleasant sight to wake up to snow but you are right, tbe ground was sodden...