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Training for long routes.

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 d_b 24 Jan 2017

I have a route on my wish list for this year which looks fairly feasible technically (UIAA IV+), but at 900m is about twice as long as anything I have done in the last 10 years.

Are there any particular approaches for training for this kind of thing beyond maintaining general hill fitness and doing lots of multi pitch routes?
Post edited at 13:27
 SenzuBean 24 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

If you recall, Pete Whittaker recently did some kickass ascents in Squamish and on Yosemite - all extremely fast. If you read his interviews, he emphasizes that visualization was a key aspect of his success. In my own vastly limited experience, I've found spending the time thoroughly imagining the route, the climbing, the belaying, the faff and how to minimize it - were a major increase in speed.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item/70610/interview_pete_whittaker_on_rope...

When I left for Squamish I was confident at leading single pitch routes, but I'd never done more than one pitch in a row.
I'm pretty good at visualising how things will work, so before going to Squamish, my rope soloing multi pitch training was all done in my head. I just basically visualised how I would do every single bit of the process, down to the point of working out which order all the screw gates would be open and closed. I tried to create the most efficient system I could think of, adapting what I had read and incorporating some of my own ideas as well. When I was happy with my system, I repeated it over and over and over again in my mind. When I left to get on the plane I could climb a multi pitch route really well...in my head.


I think that little paragraph is golden
1
 GrahamD 24 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

Time spent with your partner to get the level of understanding needed to make communication almost wordless
OP d_b 24 Jan 2017
In reply to SenzuBean:

I will try that. I have always been a bit poor at the visualisation thing, but people who are good at it always seem to do well out of it.
OP d_b 24 Jan 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

Yes. Nothing like climbing with someone when you know exactly how they are going to react to any given situation.

 GridNorth 24 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

As long as you don't stand there at the base of a 900 metre route, moving your hands about in such a way as to suggest that you can work out where the holds are "a la visualisation at the wall"

Al
 Michael Gordon 24 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

I think it will come down more to efficient systems, quick changeovers etc, rather than overall fitness (I presume you do plenty multi-pitch anyway). That and being sufficiently comfortable at the climbing level that no one section takes very long on lead or second.
 beardy mike 24 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

I think it's a bit like marathon running really. IKf you are capable of doing a 450m route at the level you're at, you're most likely capableof doing a 900m route if you're preparedto suffer a bit and keep pulling. That said, whenever I'm going to be doing something long I will often spend time climbing at the intended grade doing long days. Avon and wye for you is a great resource as you can easily rack up 450m days there at the grade you're talking about. Sure you'll know the routes, but it will give you the sort of cardio workout you'll need to expect. That and doing endurance stuff at the wall... a round of all the green core routes at Redpoint should do it...
 Rick Graham 24 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

At 4+, a lot of the route may be easier and suitable for simuclimbing, if you have the skills and ability.

Get the right partner.

Learn how not to faff, pace yourselves and carry a headtorch.

Do as much climbing as possible at the grade of the route, to get your head round what a 4+ looks like, this will help your routefinding.
 AlanLittle 24 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

You need to be quick & slick with ropework & belaying, and if the route is in the sun carry as much water as you think you can manage. Energy bars & stuff too, but they're no use if you're out of water.

(Unless the route is the Fedele in the Sass Pordoi, in which case by all accounts running out of water won't be an issue)
 Tobes 24 Jan 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:
Train/climb leading in blocks - 2 or 3 pitches at a time. Cuts down all the faff of swopping gear after every pitch, gets you physically warmed up and mentally 'on' for your leads. You then know after your block you're 'just' seconding the next few pitches which can give your head a break.

Know as much about the route as possible, especially route finding. Cross reference topos, pictures, descriptions etc to prevent time lost 'going off route'.

Start early! If it's got quite an approach know exactly where the start of the route is and how long the walk in will take 'you and your partner', not just guide book time.

Good luck!
Post edited at 22:01
OP d_b 24 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

Thanks all. Some really good advice here!

OP d_b 25 Jan 2017
In reply to Tobes:

Fortunately in this case there is a bivouac hut just below the face, so we can walk in the afternoon before and do a detailed recce of the approach and lower section.
 danm 25 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

The block leading tip given above has proven very useful in the past for myself on longer routes, it really does make a difference, but it needs a slick and well-practiced system otherwise the changeover will be a faff and slow you down. I find it works best on routes with fixed belays, as you can clip in with a sling and swap ends by untying (the rope should already be stacked and ready to go). On long routes as physical and mental fatigue become an issue, I find that using a buddy-check system becomes vital whenever tying back in, making sure you're back on belay etc.

Good luck and have an amazing trip!
 stp 25 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:
What you're really training is recovery. I find that improves quickly with lots of volume. So long sessions, lots of pitches, and lots of days on. So if you love climbing it's perfect because you get to do loads. Keep the intensity fairly high but submaximal. Aim to get fairly pumped on each pitch but so not much that you're not recovered for the next pitch a short time (say 10 minutes) later. I would aim to do about 10 pitches per session excluding warm ups.
Post edited at 16:57
 Tyler 25 Jan 2017
In reply to danm:

> The block leading tip given above has proven very useful in the past for myself on longer routes, it really does make a difference, but it needs a slick and well-practiced system otherwise the changeover will be a faff and slow you down. I find it works best on routes with fixed belays, as you can clip in with a sling and swap ends by untying (the rope should already be stacked and ready to go).

I've never used block leads as I've never worked out a quick method to change over but surely but surely there's got to be a more efficient (and safer) way than this. If using double ropes that's about 40 tying and untying of ropes per person on a route of this length
 Tyler 25 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

What's the route?
OP d_b 25 Jan 2017
 C Witter 25 Jan 2017
In reply to Tyler:

Yes - there are only two issues that I can see in leading consecutive pitches: 1) anchoring your partner and unachoring yourself; 2) the ropes being piled upside down. So, build the belay in a way that allow you to do point 1 efficiently - typically using a sling to build a power point, but there are other methods. With regard point 2, you simply flip the rope pile over so the leader's ends are on top. This isn't as usually difficult, especially if the ropes are stacked fairly neatly/thoughtfully as you belay your second. I don't see the necessity, practicality or advisability of untying and retying; as danm himself suggests, it creates a real potential for error when you get tired and are trying to be quick...
 danm 25 Jan 2017
In reply to Tyler:
You'd be surprised how efficient it is - the rope is already stacked so it's better than reversing them on a cramped stance with two or three of you there. Once you have a system locked down you can be switched over, racked up and off, maybe snaffling a gel on the way in a couple of minutes. Put it this way, I'm a punter but I've never been benighted on an Alpine route, we did the Badile N.Ridge as a 3 in 3.5 hours, overtaking all the guided parties after we slept through our alarm at the bivvi. Abbing down took far longer!

Edit to add: each to their own, there is no best way. I buddy check all the time anyway, so untying doesn't feel like an issue. I'd rather do a mechanical easy task than flip the rope and deal with the faff when it does tangle - and it will at some point, no matter how neatly you try.
Post edited at 19:57

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