UKC

When scrambling on the weekend, I realised how much of my fast/slick ropework depends on my wearing a harness. Although I was able to improvise a safe solution, I'm sure there are better ones (probably requiring me to learn more knots, which is always useful) - so a question for the experts:

You have one HMS carabiner and a rope, and are standing by a large, bomber spike which is too large (with constrictions at the back) to let a rope run freely behind it. How do you a) Make yourself safe, and b) Provide a belay to others coming up the slippery step below you? Ideally a quick and re-usable solution, as it's cold and several people want protection up the step.

In reply to Paul Baxter:

Not sure I understand the question. If there is no way to get the rope around the back of the spike then it's no a usable anchor so move on and find a usable anchor.

In reply to Paul Baxter:

I'm finding it hard to visualise a "bomber spike" that you couldn't get a rope around. When you say the rope can't run freely, are you thinking of using it for a direct belay?

From your first paragraph I'm assuming you're not wearing a harness and have the rope tied around your waist. It should be possible to loop the rope over a spike and tie it back to the waist tie (or the tie-in loop to your harness) with a fig-8 or round-turn and 2 half-hitches. That would make you safe, and you can then bring up your companions with an Italian hitch. Or you could use the HMS and a clove hitch to tie in and bring them up with old-fashioned waist belay.

If you can't get the rope around the spike I might look at placing a rock as a chockstone or even a jammed knot, although when scrambling this might be more faff than it's worth. If you have a good stance do you actually need a belay?

In reply to Paul Baxter:

How bad is the step up

Can you just sit down brace against something and use a body belay

In reply to Paul Baxter: I'd stop faffing around and grab a large sling and a second srewgate out of my rucsac.

Seriously, if you're going scrambling, just carry enough kit to make things easy. "ML" style ropework, as in just using the rope and nothing else works but is only really intended for emergencies.

These days I'd never carry even a fairly short, light rope without carrying at least a couple of slings (120 + 240cm) and a few HMS.

In reply to Paul Baxter:

Hi Paul, it really depends how steet the ground is. If its just slippery sloping ground I'd just brace myself behind the spike and body belay.

If you really need to belay, big loop (FOE) in rope over spike, HMS to that, Italian hitch from that.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

This was pretty much the actual solution used -spike was just small enough for the 240cm sling to go over well. It was close enough to not fitting that I started thinking about what-if scenarios - if it was just that bit bigger the sling wouldn't work, so I'd be back to building something from the rope.

In reply to Howard J:


Exactly - I could get the rope around it with a bit of effort, but it wouldn't run freely, so direct belaying off it wasn't on.



The difficulty I was having was imagining tying either of those two knots with the 30m or so of rope on the long end. The rope would be tied round me, then go round the rock, with a 30m(ish) end remaining. When in my climbing harness, I'd have a HMS on my belay loop - clove hitch to this and job done.

In reply to Paul Baxter:
If you are too short of rope to tie back into the line once its been passed around the spike, you can use its friction to your advantage. Simply fling a loop of rope behind the spike, tie a small alpine butterfly into the free end, clip in your HMS and italian hitch folk up on that. Any fall would try to pull your bodyweight uphill and around the spike (with friction, never going to happen). Just make sure the spike is truly bomber!

Or as mentioned above, always keep a couple of long slings and screwgates in yer pack, especially if you are leading less confident scramblers!

In reply to Paul Baxter:

You thread a bight of rope through the waist tie (or tie-in loop on a harness) and tie the knot with the doubled rope. No need to thread 30m of rope through! Or you could just clip the HMS to the waist tie and clove hitch to that, and use a body belay to bring them up.

These are old-school techniques familiar to anyone who began climbing before harnesses were thought of, but they're still worth knowing, especially when scrambling with minimum equipment (although it's always worth taking a slings and a few nuts as well).

In reply to GrahamD:


This is what sprung to my mind. Simple and quick (assuming you've not gone down the Ex-Engineer's route....)

In reply to Howard J:


That's exactly what I was missing - thanks a lot. I could've just done a round turn and two half hitches on the bight of rope.


I'm always keen to lean new (old) techniques. You never know when you might need them.

In reply to Paul Baxter:

Dig out the breeches. Next weekend maybe a perfect opportunity for some old school mountain routes.

By the way tying directly back to the harness using two half hitches in a bite of rope is exactly how a few of your older climbing partners tie in regularly

In reply to Paul Baxter: The issue of harnesses for scrambling is an interesting one. It certainly makes everything easier both for leaders and seconds when you have them.

One cunning trick I'll share that people might not have thought of for larger groups without harnesses. The first time I used it was with a group of 8 in marginally Winter conditions on Stac Pollaidh at the awkward traverse.

Sling over spike, TWO hms on it, throw both ends of the rope down, put each end on a seperate Italian hitch on seperate krabs. That way, one person can climb whilst the next person gets the rope adjusted around their waist. With multiple people seconding a short section it can cut down the time a fair bit. It works whether using bowlines around the waist or an adjustable loop.

It is only applicable to a few situations but it's a useful option to bear in mind to slightly speed up what may be a bit of a bottleneck.

In reply to Paul Baxter:
Coulple of options if you just have a rope.
1) In the end of the rope tie a big loop, big enough to go over the spike. Move yourself to a safe position above your team, preferably where you can see them. Run the rope from the boulder and throw the other end down to your team. Sit down. Tie a slightly smaller loop in the rope , just big enough for you to step into and pull up to your waist. The loop should be in a position such that if you lean forward the rope between you and the spike/anchor is tight. Have the person who is climbing tie into the end of the rope (Let us assume s/he is very confident at this and knows what s/he is doing, if not then you are going to have to tie a loop in before you throw the rope down). Pull up all the slack between you and the climber. Create a 'waist belay'. Google waist belay for the pictures.

2) If the spike is quite close to the edge then when you make the loop to go over the spike then make it a little bigger. The you can also get in that loop as well. Belay as 1.

The anchor, as in all belay situations, is paramount here. The anchor has to be solid. Kick it, tap it, feel for vibration, is it part of the bedrock or is it just a boulder sat on top, is the rock heavily crack all around it? If you don't trust it then look for another.
The rope needs to sit well onto the anchor, no chance of it rolling off. A good way to check this is to gently 'saw' the rope side to side. If it works its way up and off the anchor then its no good.

Hope this helps a little.

In reply to Paul Baxter:

I don't know why you're messing around with unnecessary krabs. Just tie an overhand knot in your rope and wedge it in the constriction behind the block, then you can quickly get on with waist belaying.

In reply to Jim Walton:

Thanks for the reply - another interesting answer. Your solution has me in a different position along the rope, which is interesting. Attach rope to spike first, then yourself to the long end and waist belay - that could've worked, the hard bit would have been guessing how large to make the first loop - as the spike was about Smart Car size. Other than that the alignment would have been very good - belaying in front of the spike was needed to a) see the climber, but also to b) to get the rope back down to the next person.

In all this I had no worries about the quality of the anchor - it was amazing.

In reply to Paul Baxter:

Tie a bowline around your waist. Pass the rope around the spike and tie it off around your waist loop with two or three half hitches (or a clove hitch onto the HMS if you prefer). Body belay them up, or use the HMS and an Italian hitch for more faff