UKC

Hi all

New here

Sorry if the above has already been asked.

Me and my dad are aiming to walk up Mount Snowdon in February. It will be our first time walking it.

We have already done Scar fell and Ben Nevis. Plus other varying walks around the lakes.

Me myself I have been on quite a few map and compass / camping courses

We are planning on taking the pyg route. from Pen y pass.

Does anybody know what the ground conditions are like. Is there deep snow or risks on the Zic Zac bit of walk.

There is deep snow would walking poles be ok. Or would you recommend crampons.

Please feel free to ask question and give advise.

Thanks

In reply to mountaingoat42:

Conditions in the UK vary almost daily and so predicting conditions for February is impossible. Sometimes paths are dry and clear. What I would say is that deep snow isn't usually a big issue - what very quickly becomes a problem on popular paths is where snow is compressed by many feet and becomes icy. Under these conditions crampons are definately useful.

I think you almost need to make a decision on equipment and clothes on the day of the ascent.

In reply to mountaingoat42:

Welcome to the Forum.

February is mid winter, and it's impossible to predict conditions other than just before. The weather might be mild right now, but that can change overnight. I wouldn't embark on a winter ascent of any British mountain withot carrying an ice axe and crampons. If you find you don't need them fine, it just means you have ha to carry a slightly heavier pack. If you do need them, then you wont be frustrated by not having them. I think the golden rule is to err on the safe side in winter.

Do you know how to use an ice axe and crampons? Do you know how to do an ice axe arrest if you slip? If not I seriously suggest that you go with someone more experienced or hire a guide.

Navigating the Pyg Track can be tricky, and if snowed up very difficult. Sadly there have been a lot of fatalities amongst inexperienced walkers on the zig zags.

In reply to mountaingoat42:

Thanks for the reply's and advise

Me and my dad have not used ice axes before and have not used crampons.

I was always thinking that it may be a step too far.

I will look into a guide and speak to him about it.

In reply to mountaingoat42:






Or maybe just wait a few months and do a summer ascent? No need for a guide and you will probably have a more enjoyable experience? Can always return in winter another year.

In reply to Babika:

Hi

Just spoke to my dad we are going to call it off till another time.

Thanks once again

If i where you, id keep plans in place and check the weather before setting off.

if it sound like their will be compact snow/ice then you can rent crampons and axes from PYB down the road from pen y pass:

http://www.pyb.co.uk/equipment-hire.php

its very hit a miss, one day its very snowy and icy and the next it can be clear. though you need to be careful as sometimes its clear at the bottom, but snow higher.

if in doubt check the ground conditions tab on the met office site:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/mountain-forecasts/snowdonia#?ta...

In reply to Trangia:

I'd reitterate what you say about crampons in winter conditions especially.

Navigation wise, though, its likely follow the crowds at weekends and I didn't think the zig zags were exceptionally dangerous (although I haven't been able to unearth accident statistics, I'm surprised you say "a lot of fatalities amongst inexperienced walkers on the zig zags"). I'd have said its one of the more amenable winter mountain objectives around.

In reply to mountaingoat42:
There were several there about 15 or 20 years ago, including one where my then climbing partner came upon a young lad crying on the path saying "My dad has just fallen down there" He climbed down and found the father dead about 50 ft below. The path was very icy and the pair had gone off route - easily done in poor vizability where there are some false paths that went nowhere.

In reply to Trangia:

Still fatalities compared to participation rates are very low. For instance no fatalities reported in winter in the whole of N.Wales in winter 2014. Its worth pointing out the dangers for sure, but the Pyg track in winter really isn't a death trap for the reasonably prepared.

In reply to GrahamD:

Death trap is exactly what the top of the zig zags on the Pyg topping out onto bwlch glas can become in winter conditions. Any snow can quickly become compacted due to traffic (and the unprepared adding to this with additional bum shuffling smoothing), and is above a not particularly nice runout, which is steep enough to allow a long accelaration, interspersed with nice bits of rockiness to hit along the way. It is one of the accident blackspots on Snowdon in winter, even if people don't die on it EVERY year. I guess you still have to be a bit unlucky for it to actually happen, but being there illequipped in the wrong conditions can quickly become a serious problem.

It is also at a psychologically dangerous point on the mountain, very close to the summit, with a short section of difficulty, that makes the top feel easily within reach after a long walk to get there. This makes it tempting for those who are 'just giving it a go, we'll turn back if it gets too hard', to go for it, even if doing so without the appropriate gear would be a bad idea. And wanting to get back down the same way after....

It is relatively bening when there is no snow, but once there is there is it can become a very different proposition. Suitlably trained and equipped (with spiky metal bits - not poles), even if it gets like this it is easy enough to overcome with little effort.

To the OP: like others have said, it could be anything from a straightforward day in the hills to full on winter adventure (and potentially dangerous for the unprepared), depending on the conditions leading up to, and on the day itself.

In reply to GerM:

Personally I think hyperbole like "death trap" just isn't helpful when clearly it isn't given the reported number of deaths and given how many people use that path. But in icy conditions crampons definitely

In reply to mountaingoat42:

As has already been said, conditions in February could be anything form spring-like to Arctic. Be prepared to change your plans as the weather requires.

I am probably not alone on here in having gone up a hill without proper equipment (when I was young enough not to know better!). In fact I've been up the PyG track in winter conditions with no crampons. We got away with, and felt like heroes, but probably not something you want to do beyond your teenage years!

In those conditions, PyG is not one of the routes you want to be on. As has been noted, the combination of compacted ice, and a steep run off, makes things a bit high stakes.

If ticking off Snowdon really is your thing, then why not look at the Llanberis route? It is longer, and more boring, and conditions underfoot could still be challenging, but at least a slip will not result in a long, deadly slide (unless of course you've also navigated badly!).

PS It's Snowdon, not Mount Snowdon. Or preferably, and more properly, Yr Wyddfa.

In reply to HTPumlumon:


Hi

Thanks once again for all your advise on here from everybody.

We are diffidently going to call it off. I just think it would be more enjoyable to do it in the spring or summer. Plus get a view from the top. Then try again in the winter.

We have got plenty more trips planned for walking.

I am still learning and have been meaning to go on a winter skill course. At some point.

Snowdon will always be there.

In reply to mountaingoat42:

There are plenty of lower, less serious hills you could do instead, that are less likely to have snow and ice. Cnicht for instance, or the Moelwyns. Always subject to conditions of course!

In reply to adam06:
But as the OP mentioned, they have never used ice axes or crampons before. So hiring equipment of which you have little or no experience is not really a sensible idea. They might not be needed, but you can't tell at the PYB car park.

There are easier alternatives worth doing and you will be gaining valuable experience.

Have fun.

In reply to GerM:
I was particularly stupid on the zig zags a few years ago and narrowly avoided a serious/ fatal accident.
Was walking up zig zags about 10 years ago in February. I had crampons and an axe in my rucksack and the knowledge to use them. I was on my own and the conditions were poor I hadn't seen another soul on the mountain. Low mist spitting with rain, temp around zero.
I reached a section of the zig zags which were covered in thick compact undulating ice. It was only about 15 meters long, the path was ice free the other side.
The right hand side of the path was rock wall and scree. The left hand a vertical drop of about 5 ft then steep scree disappeared into the mist.
I knew I should have put crampons on but didn't want faff and cold hands. I thought it would be ok if I was careful.

I set out slowly and somewhere about the middle felt my feet sliding out from under me on the undulating ice. Bit embarrassing I thought, but no problem as sitting on path on my arse. I slowly stated sliding towards the drop and as my legs and waist went off I got my hand into a gap melted around a rock in the path. I stopped the fall, calmed down a bit, then slid on my stomach back the way I had come using my poles to chip the ice enough to pull myself with my arms.

Really stupid thing to do!

In reply to Dorchester:

I think most of us have been there at some time, so don't beat yourself up about it. I applaud your honestly.

In reply to mountaingoat42:

I walked this last weekend, and ran in early Jan last year.

To give you and idea on what the conditions can be like, here are my photos from last weekend:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10154072235881021.1073742040.6196...

And a video from early Jan last year:
youtube.com/watch?v=ZwolWQW7cjM&

As the posts above have said, conditions vary dramatically on a daily basis.
Prior to our visits we monitor daily two key websites to judge conditions:

1) Summit weather forecasts:
http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Snowdon/forecasts/1085
This gives 6 day and 9 day forecasts on summit conditions. This is really key as summit conditions can vary hugely from those at the foot of the mountain. Understanding and preparing for conditions at the summit is critical.

2) Ground condition reports:
http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting/walking/ground-conditions?name
Some very kind and helpful Snowdon rangers (plus helpers) walk up Snowdon every few days and post details and photos of the conditions under foot. This is just as important as the forecasts. As it might not be forecast to snow, but knowing what is already on the ground already is equally important.

I echo the comments about the need to be cautious and be prepared to carry crampons/ice axes.
Last year I only had microspikes (https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3268) and vowed I would not do it again without full crampons/ice axe. This year we had the gear packed in the car ready, but based on the forecast and ground conditions reports decided to stick with just microspikes in the end. And it was quite sufficient.

For maximum enjoyment, my recommendation would be to do it in summer first, and enjoy the mountain whilst learning the route. Then return in winter and deliberately plan a trip when there is good snow. And having bought the right kit (ice axe/crampons) and learnt how to self arrest. You'll see the mountain in a completely different light, but without taking undue risks.

Paul.

In reply to mountaingoat42:

It really depends. A week can make it a summer walk. There's plenty of lower peaks like Moel Eilio.

In Feb I've done it in everything from shorts and T-shirt to full on winter conditions. It's probably going to be pretty rough, could be deadly without an axe and crampons, could be Ok and summer conditions.

In reply to mountaingoat42:


That's arguably the wisest thing I've ever read on these forums. You're dead right - it will!

Hope you have a great day out when you do go up.

We're all learning...

Mick