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Best Layering System Discussion

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 TomAlford 31 Jan 2017
I reckon this might cause a bit of a debate, but what do you guys think is the best system for layers and why for summer mountaineering/Scottish winter/colder days etc?

Personally I like to have a Patagonia R1 midlayer, an Arctyrex Atom synthetic for cold starts and shady belays, and a decent shell for when things get really grim, with a pair of Arcteryx Gamma pants and a merino base layer.

Please, criticise, compliment, discuss, and what do you guys reckon is the best combination?
 GrahamD 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

I can't comment on the specifics of your system (I don't run to Patagonia / Arctyrex prices) but I would say that it takes a long time to hit your own personal preferred compromise (as it always is).
 bouldery bits 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

No layers

Buffalo active or full weight buffalo.
 d_b 31 Jan 2017
In reply to bouldery bits:

I am a heretic, and use a thin base layer with my buffalo big face. It helps take the edge off when I have the vents open and there is a wind.

I only wear the thing when it is well below freezing so it doesn't cause dampness problems.
 bouldery bits 31 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

I sometimes pop a smelly Hansen dry layer underneath (tell no one!)
 d_b 31 Jan 2017
In reply to bouldery bits:

It's OK. I'm sure our secret is safe with, er, everyone who reads this thread.
 MonkeyPuzzle 31 Jan 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

I also confess to wearing a patagonia capilene base layer under my Buffalo. Just to intercept some of the stink plus it just feels nice to have a top layer tucked into my trousers.

I keep a windshirt in my bag for if I get too warm, and a Rab Generator insulated jacket if I'm going to be hanging around anywhere cold and exposed for any length of time. Fjallraven Barents pants (with or without Helly Hansen leggings underneath, weather-dependent) complete the fisherman-lost-in-the-hills look.
Dheorl 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:
My full system comprises of:
Base layer, currently from a random selection I've built up over the years)
Mid-layer, currently mountain equipment fleece but will be grabbing an R1 next time I go to USA
Rab Vapour-rise
Gilet, currently down, swapping for synthetic as soon as I find one I like at the right price

Then if the weather is really shite I have my Beta LT Jacket, and if it's really cold/stationary then belay jacket, again, currently down but swapping for synthetic.

As you may be able to tell, I'm not a warm person, although this is for starting out over glaciers at altitude before the sun comes up.

Once the sun comes up I'll often go right down to just base layer and vapour-rise depending on conditions.
 Billhook 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:
My layering 'system'.

Well I don;'t have one. When its hot I take something off and when Its cold I just put something more on. If the conditions are a little colder I just put a bit more on and if warmer a little more bit off.

Generally, thicker stuff for cold and thinner stuff for warm/hot.

Its what everyone did in the olden days.
Post edited at 15:09
 nniff 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

Something thinnish (base layer) - Decathlon
Something thicker (thin fleece) - Decathlon
Montane featherlight smock if its windy on the walk in
Windproof, warm, water resistant soft shell - Decathlon.
belay jacket - blue-ish ME thing

Change any of the Decathlon stuff for a big name brand if you wish. The Decathlon stuff is at least as good as branded gear three to four times the price

Legs - Decathlon cold weather running tights and Rab windproof water resistant trousers.

Hardshell only ever gets worn if it's raining. I therefore have the lightest, sale-bought Goretex jacket available when the old one died. Hardshell trousers worn even less than hardshell jacket and similarly lightweight and usually left behind unless it's raining and taken off at the earliest opportunity.

I do spend money on gloves and socks. BD Punisher with liners and the thickest Bridgedale or Smartwool socks. Sore or cold fingers and feet is the path to misery
 BnB 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:
I never go out without my seamless azure baselayer in purest fast-wicking nylithene. On top of that piece and, in a contrasting vermillion, I layer my Patiteryx gigapuff in miraculous insubreathe fabric. To ward off the most impudent precipitation there's nothing can match the shelter of my duroproof shell from RABME. It's light brown with a contrasting purple helmet hood. My friend says I look tooled up. At least I think that's what he said.


On a more serious note, drop the merino. It's good for static sports like skiing and snowboarding but once you run up a sweat it drains the warmth out of you. Itchy too. Instead try your R1 as a baselayer in winter. Works well.
Post edited at 19:38
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 Dave the Rave 31 Jan 2017
In reply to bouldery bits:

> No layers

> Buffalo active or full weight buffalo.

Yee haa!
 Dave the Rave 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

It depends on your free cash and how much you buy into the hype of advertising.
I've tried a lot of the new fangled, lightweight stuff and to be fair it's ok but won't last. Examples Rab Latok Alpine, 2 years wear then useless. Icebreaker merino. Lovely then fell to bits.
Marmot Driclime windshirt. Excellent after 12 years, a little ripped but still functional.
So, I now wear a 25 yr old smelly Helly or similar Lowe alpine dryflo with the Marmot Driclime over the top for walk ins. If it's cold and windy I will add a Paramo Fuera windshirt to give the Driclime a hood. Once I'm up high enough and no longer sweating, I bin the first lot, chuck on a Buffalo Special Six shirt 23 years old. Back up is a 16 year old Goretex with a good hood.
 Rich W Parker 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

Still working on it after 30 years.
In reply to TomAlford:

It depends...

But my thoughts on layering systems can be found here:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=377801#x5471096
 Billhook 31 Jan 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

So there you have it Tom! :-

When cold put on more clothes. (Or do you're zips up). When cold take a few off (or open a zip or two). Anything else is rubbish.

None of us crumblies do 'clothing systems'. We were all taught by our parents - and then experience!

Oh, and even though you;re somewhat younger than most of us, don't give in and waste your scarce money on some Acryretx F8 Hurricane VIII hybrid jacket. It isn't much different from the one I wear. Except mine is probably no longer made, and the company has almost certainly gone bust and the colour? "So last year". And it was far cheaper than whatever you're going to buy.
Dheorl 01 Feb 2017
In reply to Dave Perry:

I would have said your principle of "take stuff off put stuff on" is pretty much the definition of a layering system. Unless you take off one thing before putting the other one on

In the olden days it is what everyone did, but that doesn't mean they didn't have some sort of logic to it. They wouldn't go walking around with the wool shirt on-top of the tweed jacket, hence a layering system.
 Paul Troon 01 Feb 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

Ok i use bam and icebreaker base then rab power stretch then depending on activitie down or waterproof. Look at bam clothing I have found there products quite effective and not over priced.

I haven't used my 250 icebreaker for 3 year's as it is to warm some winter days used icebreaker tea or synthetic s never cotton

Yes I will use s
 MG 01 Feb 2017
In reply to Dheorl:

> hence a layering system.

Otherwise known as "clothes".

1
 Pyreneenemec 01 Feb 2017
In reply to TomAlford:


Early 70's, red Army & Navy boots, cheap, red, over the head cagoule, red or blue ckecked shirt, again from Army & Navy ( made in Roumania and still got one ! ) and a thick, Herdwick natural wool, hand knitted pullover ( still wearing this, thanks mum ! ). I later progressed to a couple of Damart Thermolactyl t-shirts and a pair of Moac moleskin breeches !
Dheorl 01 Feb 2017
In reply to MG:

Well, no. Clothes are merely pieces of fabrics sown together. A layering system is, as Dave so eloquently puts, is taking someones off when you're hot and putting something on when you're cold. More importantly it's wearing or carrying clothing that enables you to do this.
 d_b 01 Feb 2017
In reply to MG:

I remember an early 00s [redacted] catalogue referred to tents as "portable light weight shelter solutions."

10 points to the first person to name the shop.
 Mark Haward 01 Feb 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

The best layering 'system' in my opinion is one that can cope with the widest range of expected temperatures / conditions and activity with the least amount of taking on and off that suit you. At some stage we are likely to get too hot, too cold, damp so the system has to keep you at a reasonably comfortable state for as much time of the time as possible. Different temperatures / conditions / activity will require tweaks or changes to the 'system'.
For example I often use a lightweight hooded softshell. Sleeves can roll up, full length zip opened, pocket zips open to vent ( assuming nothing to fall out ). When temperatures / conditions become cooler and or activity reduces I can roll sleeves down, do zips up, put hood on, cinch drawcords closer etc. It can cope with showers.
Underneath I will have a light weight high wicking layer that is also adaptable. This may be a long sleeved one with a deep venting zip, sleeves I can roll up and thumb loops for when I feel colder or possibly a short sleeved, zipped version.
For me these work well most of the time when walking, scrambling or climbing in the UK and also summer alpine. I might use a different weight base layer or softshell depending on the activity / conditions and temperature range such as for UK winter climbing. However, sometimes I will need to take hard shell clothing or a belay jacket. Sometimes I judge it wrong and get too hot, too cold, too wet but that kind of goes with the territory.

 MG 01 Feb 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

Cotswold?
 Robert Durran 01 Feb 2017
In reply to Dheorl:
> Well, no. Clothes are merely pieces of fabrics sown together. A layering system is, as Dave so eloquently puts, is taking someones off when you're hot and putting something on when you're cold.

But you are missing the point of a "system". "System" is a marketing term, so it can't just mean putting on enough clothes to be warm enough - it requires all the associated bollocks of marketing. Probably at least needs to be "activ".
Post edited at 12:34
1
Dheorl 01 Feb 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

No, a system is just the logical name for what people do clothing wise in the mountains. If you want to get strung along by the accompanied marketing, that's fine by me.
 d_b 01 Feb 2017
In reply to MG:

10 points to MG!

That was easy wasn't it?
In reply to Dheorl:

Agreed: a system suggests a well-thought-out set of items that perform well as a whole. Not just a few things grabbed from a cupboard.

Anyone can put together a system of items that suits them; it doesn't have to be marketing-driven bollocks.

I have systems for all aspects of basic outdoor equipment:

carry
shelter
sleeping
cooking
clothing
cleaning
walking
water
emergency
repair

It's just a handy word...
 The New NickB 01 Feb 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

I like to wear relatively little insulation under a wind shirt. The amount of insulation depends on the temperature, but if it's around zero it will probably be an R1 Hoody. My aim is to be comfortable moving. I may layer the R1 with a light thermal if it is colder, or just have the thermal if it is milder.

Next is a light synthetic layer (60g primaloft) that gets thrown on for brief stops. Then a hardshell, then a synthetic hooded belay jacket that can be thrown over everything if conditions get really nasty.
 guy127917 01 Feb 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

Saw this on the Patagonia site this morning- http://eu.patagonia.com/enGB/high-alpine-kit

Nice of the manufacturer to actually explain how their clothing layers fit together into a cohesive set.
 Dave B 01 Feb 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

Surely it needs to be a fabric solution (ref private eye).

 iksander 01 Feb 2017
In reply to TomAlford:

Fishnet Brynje and a chulo 24 x 7 x 365

Works from summer in the Empty Quarter to winter on K2
 Timmd 01 Feb 2017
In reply to TomAlford:
I suppose it depends on what's to hand? To compensate for having a Drilite (iirc) ME waterproof as my wind layer when going up Whetherlam (sp) in the awesome snow of 2010, I think I wore a merino base layer, a ME half zip synthetic mid layer (or it might have been a Howies waffle mid layer), and a cosy woollen jumper with an ultrafleece fleece on top of that, and stayed in that walking up from Coniston to around Swirl Howe close to the top, at which point I put on a thickish fleece gillet after I got too cold sitting on the snow to eat my sandwiches (rookie mistake). When we got back down again my friend noticed that there was ice on the inside of her mineral water bottle inside a pocket on the outside of her 'sack, so it was coldish.

I'm starting to wonder if merino isn't the best for being active in due to the amount of moisture it can hold onto, but I think if I'd have my XCR goretex on instead, I'd still have had less clothing on underneath due to it being a bit better at stopping heat loss caused by the wind. It only take a little bit of movement to keep warm in merino though, and it's nice to feel a bit more 'eco'.

If my fleece gillet had been a full fleece - I'd have probably overheated in it. I think gillets/body warmers can sometimes be overlooked as pieces of outdoor gear, in being quite light and a handy 'top up'. There's probably other ways of getting the same effect, my clothing approach is possibly 'old school' compared to modern gear.
Post edited at 16:14

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