UKC

Entered a beginners triathlon, fine except I cant really swim.

I can manage a length or two of breast stroke, would I be better sticking to that and getting better at it (and able to do the distance) for that or just learn the front crawl from scratch and do the tri in that?

The swim will be in a swimming pool if that makes any difference to the answers.

I'm just entering the thing to give me a goal to train for, albeit if I enjoy it I may do others.

And, assuming I am able to get up to the required distance, what sort of times should a length of a 25m pool take?
(although I only want to finish the tri I don't want to be last)

In reply to subtle:

I've only done one triathlon and I had similar concerns to you. I stuck to breaststroke in the end and I'd say about 30% of the other entrants did too (although I'm sure at the hardcore events everyone is front-crawling).

In reply to subtle:

Front crawl is much more efficient. I couldn't do front crawl until I was about 25, when I had a 1:1 lesson and then practiced on my own. Although I was a confident swimmer beforehand I never did the stroke with my face in the water properly. a one off lesson is recommended. You will be much faster with front crawl.

For a sprint triathlon I guess the distance is about half a mile - that would take 20 minutes in a pool maybe? 15 minutes if open water downstream?

If you get a light bike then in a beginners triathlon you can make up a lot of time on the cycle, as many will be on MTB, and this will be about 25km.

In reply to subtle:
Also from personal experience, and my wife's experiences (she's keener than me) I doubt you have much to worry about. I'm crap at running, swimming and cycling, didn't train and finished about middle of the pack.
There is likely to be lots and lots of people in the same boat as you, there was at the event I did.
Obviously your event could be different but as you stated 'beginners' I'm sure it won't be.
Good Luck

In reply to subtle:
How far is the swim?

Breast stroke is probably fine up to about 400m, but will be slow. Friend of mine was doing it for a 300m swim (sprint tri), but she can't do crawl - she's a good cyclist and made up the time on the bike.

Further than that, and you're much better off with crawl.

30 seconds a length is not a bad time to aim for - decent club swimmers will be low 20s.

In reply to subtle:

sounds like you get tired as easily as I do in the water - I reckon a length takes me about a minute.

In reply to subtle:

Depends how long you have to train but if its a month or more I'd say crawl is well worth the investment. Once you have a length wired, 2, 4, 8 lengths come progressively easier.

The position in a tri is very rarely decided by the swim so don't get fixated on the swim time. Just concentrate on breathing !

In reply to subtle:
Learn sidestroke. Much easier if you aren't a good swimmer and a much more useful stroke to know.

In reply to subtle:

Breast stroke is less strenuous and slower. I used to swim breast stroke all the time until I discovered it wasn't doing my knees any good - I've since been informed by more than one physio that knee problems are common in people not swimming b/s properly.
I forced myself to swim only crawl, it takes a little practice to master the breathing and is more strenuous, but worth the effort.
I no longer have knee trouble, and my shoulders seem to have grown!

Off the top of my head I think it takes me about a minute to do 2x 25m lengths of the pool as I do a mile in about 35 mins.

In reply to subtle: If you're reasonably fit, then the difficult bit with front crawl is getting the breathing properly synchronised. Once you got that done then you can keep going for ages (because you're now getting enough O2 in) at a relaxed pace and start to concentrate on improving your technique.

In reply to subtle:

One of the main benefits of swimming crawl in a triathlon is that it doesn't tire your legs out as much as breaststroke does and leaves them fresher for the bike and run, especially if you're wearing a wetsuit.

If it is a short distance beginners tri you're doing and you swim decent breaststroke I'd stick with that for this one. You'll definitely not be the only one swimming breaststroke! If you enjoy it and fancy training for another, I'd have some lessons for crawl.

In reply to subtle:

Why bother to enter if you don't want to win it? Come on, have some lessons with front crawl! Don't be an 'also ran'!

In reply to Michael Hood:
I'd welcome any tips on how to breathe properly.

I've tried breathing alternate or every third stroke, swimming slowly or quickly but still I'm unable to sustain front crawl and find myself out of breathe after 4 or 5 lengths.....

In reply to wobble:

It took me a long time to get the hang of breathing in front crawl. I felt I was getting out of breath, but in the end I realised I wasn't breathing out enough. I have to make a conscious effort to push the breath out to overcome the resistance of the water. Also keeping the head low and breathing to the side into the bow wave created by a low forehead to enable a reasonably clean breath in without taking on any water.
Now i have to make a conscious effort to slow down, relax and breath out fully for the first 3 lengths or so. I find that once I get to 4 lengths without gasping I am then in a breathing rythem and I can increase the effort a bit.

In reply to mountain.martin:
Thank you very much. I'll be trying out this advice next time I go.

Breathing out harder may well be what I need to do.

In reply to wobble:

Experiment with how you breath. If I just blow out it seems I only expel air from the top of my lungs. So sometimes I have to concentrate on doing a deeper breath out using my diaphragm, to expel stale air.

In reply to wobble:
Breathe out fully when your head is under

Don't look forward but down

Breathe by looking sideways over your shoulder rather than up, you should be able to breathe in the pocket of the wave that forms behind your head and you only need half your mouth out the water

If you're getting out of breath you're probably kicking too much. Long distance swimmers barely kick at all, certainly not for propulsion but just to keep position. Try using a pull buoy, you shouldn't really be any slower.

In reply to subtle:
I was in exactly the same position as you when I got goaded into doing a local sprint tri.
It's true that the swim is the shortest section, and swimming time has very little impact on te final places - all you have to do is survive it with energy left over.
My experience: distances were 400m (16 lengths), 20k, 5k, with intense hills on the ride and run (it was the Milltown to Moors event in Oldham).
I was last out of the pool by some margin, in fact the second last got out while I still had two lengths to go on my tod! Varied strokes mid-length, swallowed water, I was dreadful. On the bike, caught and Overtook the other 15 in my wave of starters, one of which caught me again on the run. Finished just in the top half overall, of my age/gender group (61 out of 130).

I wouldn't bother learning anything new just for your first go - just do whatever you're comfortable with. Sure you'll boss it!

In reply to subtle:

I'm terrible at swimming and did a sprint tri. I hated swimming so much that I didn't train it at all. Being awful at the first section turned out to be really motivating because I came out of the sea right at the back of the pack and had loads of people to chase and overtake for the rest of the event. I thoroughly recommend remaining terrible at swimming!

In reply to Luke90:

Exactly the same as me then!
Except I did practice the swim a couple of times, as I was scared that I might not even make the puny distance!

In reply to subtle:

Learn crawl and:

Pull buoy, pull buoy, pull buoy.

Get yourself one of these and use it for 80% of your sessions.

It will help your body position in the water and it will cut out your legs, enabling you to focus on getting the front end of the stroke right. This will improve your learning curve dramatically.

Good luck and have fun.

In reply to Aly:





Good advice. I had a lesson using the total immersion system and then taught myself. Well worth it. It's all about balance and streamlining, and just gently kicking for balance. I was kicking far too much and it tires you really quickly. It took me ages to get really relaxed in the water, but it's important for you breathing and buoyancy. I can swim a kilometre slowly now without getting tired.

In reply to all:

Cheers, thanks all - seems to be some difference in the advice given though :

1. Change now to front crawl, use a pull bouy and train
2. Just do it with existing breast stroke, its only a sprint tri, you will manage the distance and the swim time wont make much of a difference.

Currently managing around 1 min 10 for two lengths, when doing the full swim it slows down to around 1 min 15 on average, no sure how much I would gain by switching (and learning) a new stroke in the the next 5 weeks so may just stick with the breast stoke

With regards to the transition / bike / transition / run any tips on what to do (apart from go fast, obviously)

In reply to subtle:

Don't get too worked up about transition. Know the rules about what you can and can't have in the transition area and organise accordingly. More haste, less speed is the key to start with. Not a bad idea to have a snack ready to go on the bike, even for a sprint tri.

When I did a sprint tri I didn't have clipless pedals which was fine, but if you do don't even think about trying the rolling start thing (shoes already on pedals).

MrsD who has done fare more in the way of triathlons has easy opening triathlon cycling shoes and elastic laces in her trainers.

A tri number belt is good (an elastic belt with clips on) - as it allows you to swap your number back over to front between cycle and run very easily

In reply to Aly:
Thank you for the advice.

Looking down is a good tip, I'm conscious that as I struggle for breath, my head position changes.
I'm not kicking too hard, it's just that I am obviously struggling to get a breath into my lungs in the time available.

I'm going to focus on the breathing out fully tips from yourself and Michael and will report back.....

In reply to wobble:


Some thoughts, not gospel...

As others have said, it's the breathing out that counts. I re-learnt how to breathe (used to be able to swim a bit when I was a teenager) when I was on a 3 week holiday where I had access to a pool every day. I thought, this is crazy, I'm fit & strong, but getting out of breath swimming less than 50m. It must be technique. So I concentrated on my breathing and by the end of 3 weeks was doing 800m.

I found that breathing every third stroke suited me best. So firstly, find a pool where you're not going to bump into other people; i.e. pretty empty. That way you can keep your head down without worrying. Secondly, wear goggles unless you're really, really comfy with eyes open underwater - again, it's to allow you to relax more.

First stroke, breathe out, second stroke, breathe out more, third stroke, twist head (try not to lift it) behind arm and breathe in. Try and establish a rhythm, don't worry about speed, just concentrate on getting the breathing synchronised. Once that's done, you can keep going for ages and then you can think more about swimming technique.

Not lifting the head when you breathe; i.e. just twisting, is quite difficult. I manage it better on one side than the other. My dad, still swimming 1k 3 times a week at 93, still does it much better than I can (although finally I can swim further and faster than him if I try). Watch someone with good style to see what it looks like.

You may find breathing every 2, or every 4, better for you, but once you've sorted one out, changing to the others is pretty easy really.

Finally, get some lessons. If I was going to start swimming regularly, then I would get lessons, simply to sort out my stroke technique. If you watch a really good swimmer, it's quite incredible (and frustrating),, how they seem to go so much faster, with slower strokes and less effort. Most of that will simply be down to technique.

In reply to Michael Hood:
Thanks again for taking the time to offer advice.

Just as you describe it seems crazy that I can go out and run 10k but put me in a swimming pool and I'm out of breath after 100m.

I breathe every third stroke and can do the twisting and breathing with my mouth half in the water bit but I think it must be as you say and I need to get rid of the breath efficiently so I can get the air back in.

I'll let you know how I get on.

In reply to BigBrother:

I second learning side-stroke. It's about the only stroke I use these days.
It's much faster than breast stroke but not tiring like front crawl and you don't have to concentrate on your breathing or put your head under water.
It also has the added bonus that if you get tired on one side you can just switch to the other side.

In reply to subtle:

Reasonably experienced triathlete here, so might as well add my 2p:
I think I'd suggest you stick with your breaststroke. I swim breaststroke really badly, but I understand that what you want to work on is a really good arm pull through the water, getting your forearms nice and vertical with your hands pointing to the back of the pool.

In terms of swim standards - our club has 4 lanes (well strictly speaking it is a joint session between 2 clubs) in a session I go to a lot - if lane 1 is the slowest I'm top end lane 2 / back of lane 3 and I'm really going well if I can do a hundred in 1:40 - that's 25 seconds per 25m. I'll be slower than that in a race. BUT in a novice sprint there will be plenty of people swimming much slower than that so don't panic!

Race-wise - what are you going to wear? If you are going to swim in shorts then you'll need to put something on your top half (this is the rules, but you'll want to anyway).

Most important (if this is the only thing you take from my rambling, do this) - before the race, do what in the jargon is known as a "brick" session - go out on your bike and ride hard, come back, get off your bike and go straight out for a run (10 -15 minutes will be enough). Your legs will feel terrible. This is to be expected, but now you know what it will feel like in the race.

In reply to fimm:

A quick question as im contemplating my first tri, admittedly a sprint. What distance do you keep that pace up over?
I swim a fair bit just for the sake of keeping fit and can do a 1km at 1:40 per hundred pace at a push but normally do 2km at somewhere around 1:50.
Also I swim front crawl as I just use it for upper body exercise and save the legs for commuting on the bike.

In reply to fimm:

cheers, very helpful

its a pool based swim I will be in - can I no just wear shorts then stick a top on afterwards for the rest or do I have to swim in a top?

tried crawl at lunch today, no good, think I will stick with the breast stroke, currently doing 50m in around 1:10 so around 32 for a 25m length - will be happy if I can improve on that in the run up to the event

brick runs - aye, will need to try a few, see how they go

its a sprint tri basically, as long as I don't end up last I will be happy - but I guess on the day the race face will be on so I guess I had better train for this thing

In reply to subtle:

Yes, you can swim in your shorts and put on a top afterwards. Pin your number to the top (this has been acceptable in most if not all of the races I've done - certainly it should be fine in a novice race).

One other thing I thought of - well two really - when you get to your bike you must push it through the transition area to the spot where you are allowed to get on your bike (the mount line) and on the way back you must dismount (almost certainly at the same spot) and push your bike back to its place. It is really good practice to "walk transition" before the race starts so you know where your bike is when you get out of the swim and even more importantly where you have to go with your bike when you get back from the cycle - a bike is relatively easy to find but a space where a bike should go is harder!

Do listen carefully to the race briefing - tri is a bit of a complicated sport! On the other had a good referee should cut an obvious novice a bit of slack so if you do do something you shouldn't they should just tell you to stop doing it - just do as you are told and you'll be fine.

Have fun!

In reply to mountain.martin:

A good test is to sit in the pool in crossed leg position and breathe out as you would during front crawl. You will find that you don't sink and still have a large amount of air left in your lungs.

I consider myself a very strong front crawl swimmer (I swim with a triathlon club indoors and outdoors) but I did this test for the first time last week and was unpleasantly surprised with how much air I wasn't breathing out!

As above...time spent getting your bilateral breathing spot on is time well spent. Beginners tend to have their head looking forwards - to the end of the pool - forcing them into a weird neck contortion to breathe sideways. You should be looking straight down at the bottom of the pool, which will allow you to breathe sideways 'under your armpits'.

In reply to subtle:
Getting the breathing right is key to swimming over distance. Some things that I found useful were getting used to 'gliding' through the water and using the rotation of my body to aid breathing. I you swim flat, without the natural rotation of your shoulders and hips as you stroke, you tend to end up thrashing about and snatching at the water. When you get the smooth rotation going, and with a bit of a push with your leading hand as you rotate to breath, you feel smoother and more controlled. As a result you find a natural rhythm. If you can't breathe bilaterally, try breathing on one side on the fourth stroke. If you have to breath on the same side after two strokes do that for a bit but then try to slow down, elongate your stroke and relax. You should glide through the water a bit better and be able to maintain breathing on the fourth stroke continuously. It's about testing it out a bit, finding a pace that suits you. Once you do this you can go for ages without stopping. You might not appear fast but over distance you will be. A thing that I found useful was to gain confidence in my natural buoyancy. Once you realise you are not going to sink it is quite liberating.

Sorry if this none of this makes any sense.