UKC

Rant Warning:
Going for my paper at the petrol station this morning I was in a queue behind a youngish mother who looked like a very much over inflated Michelin man. She was about five feet tall and I shudder to think what she weighed. She had her arms full of bottles of Coca Cola, packets of crisps and biscuits. Her toddler was being allowed a free run on the sweet counter.

I could not help but think that the obesity and poor life style seen in some people is a generational thing and I had visions of the said toddler resembling her mother in a few years time.

It's all very well saying that it's their choice, they can lead whatever lifestyle they choose but surely, with people following such lifestyles, is one of the reasons there are problems with the health service as each successive generation puts unnecessary drain on resources.

In reply to FesteringSore:
What do you think should be done about it?

I wouldn't be against some kinds of nudges being within society, it could be seen as a kind thing to do, but some would call it 'nanny state'.

As a healthy diabetic who doesn't really drink (it just makes life easier for me), and with alcohol being 60% cheaper than during the 80's, I'd not be against a price increase to address some of it's costs to society and to help raise taxes, but I think I could be in a minority. It makes a lot of sense to me...though.

In reply to Timmd:


I think part of the problem is that society has got itself into the ridiculous situation where it is perceived as wrong or not politically correct to point out to people that they are obese and not leading a healthy life style. People need to be educated into understanding that by leading such a lifestyle they ARE at risk of serious illness and of causing further strain on the health service resources.
I think that message needs to be got across far more forcefully.

In reply to FesteringSore:

I wonder whether teaching cooking and healthy eating in schools might be as useful as maths, English etc?

In reply to FesteringSore:

But look what's happening to the NHS because people are living longer, it's dropping to its knees and probably further.
You need to bear (sp?) in mind as well, that a hell of a lot of people don't give a fukc about their health, they just want to slob on their sofas, shovelling garbage into their gobs and watch 100s of channels of shit on their TVs.

In reply to Lusk:

Most people care about their health, we unfortunately only start caring when something happens that prompts a visit to the doctor or A&E.

In reply to FesteringSore:
What makes you think people are not aware of consequences of their lifestyle? We've had education on this very subject for years. You'd have to have had your head in the sand not to have seen this advice / education. Problem is it gets ignored till the damage is done. It's a bit like young people saving for retirement just seen as an abstract thing years away and then suddenly it's upon them and too late to recover from in any significant fashion.

I'm often shocked at what people think is normal health and fitness wise for people in their 50's. No it's not normal it's a result of your lifestyle that you're falling apart.

Getting kids active is the biggest indicator they'll go on to stay healthy and active in later years. Get put off at school by sports etc. and it's a downward spiral.

In reply to FesteringSore:
I'm a bit of a bleeding heart liberal in regard to many things (you know how this going: 'I'm not a racist but...') however otherwise healthy, obese younger people do make me despair. Poverty is often used as an excuse for poor diet but I'm not sure about that, if you were in a petrol station queue then it's likely that the person you were behind is a car owner, so not exactly destitute, and I'd guess that those crisps, biscuits, and Coca Cola cost more than the ingredients for the evening meal I'm cooking tonight. What chance do the fattening kids of such parents have? We'd be outraged if adults were giving pre-teens cigarettes but this isn't a whole lot different.

I think it's been noted in some quarters that age expectancy is starting to plateau in the west because of complications from obesity and lack of excersise. What's so sad about all this is that being a lard arse impacts the enjoyment and fulfillment that many will get out of their lives. A little investment in education combined with targeted taxation of unhealthy food/drink could save us a fortune in the longer term.

Impose levies on fizzy lagers and give tax breaks to indie craft ale producers and decent red wine importers and we're all winners. (Damn, I was doing so well up until then!)

In reply to FesteringSore:
As an ex smoker, I think potentially, people can know something and not always act on their knowledge. I get the impression the sugar industry has a lot of power in this country, re the labelling of foods and measures to be taken (or not once they've lobbied) to show how much sugar is in food, there's the problem of food-deserts too, where it's harder to access healthier food. A young French woman I volunteered with for a while said she found it harder to eat healthy over here (when she was living near the Climbing Works incidentally in Sheffield) compared to her home in France. I don't suppose it helps that sugar is addictive too.

I'd probably better start crossing my fingers after posting I'm healthy. One never fully knows.

In reply to FesteringSore:

When the taxpayer funded NHS model eventually collaspes - and being horribly fat cranks their health insurance premium up hugely.

In reply to FesteringSore:

My daughter plays for a couple of local basketball sides, (she also trains an under 10 side, plays 5 a side soccer, and works out at a local gym, *) I damn near peed myself recently when going along to support her, to find this sign at the stadium food outlet.

http://www.fatbeetle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/image/may%202013/healthy%2...



*Yes, I am proud/boasting.

In reply to FesteringSore:

It might be pointed out that what you went to was actually a sweet shop that does a sideline in petrol, the majority of small shops and garages look more like willy wonkas chocolate factory, will power will not be enough without education and legislation, banging on about will power just plays into the food industries hands because they know that's not how we are programmed.

In reply to FesteringSore:

I think them old myths about it 'being genetic' / 'having a weird metabolism' / 'having a wonky thyroid' or whatever might still play a part in peoples psyche, you know.

It's a very old argumetn I know, but at it's very very basic fundamental level, it's got to be down to a energy in / energy out balance, hasn't it? I appreciate there are many many societal / psychological issues which might play a part in how a person fuels their body...but it still gets down to the calorific intake.....right?

There are some extremely overweight people where I work who maintain that they have tried every single diet on the earth, eat relatively healthily, yet still cannot lose weight. I don't understand how this is physically possible. I understand completely the depressive cycle of trying a diet for a week, sneaking in odd bits of sugar laden food along the way, and then getting stressed at not losing weight and giving in.....I see these people eating all day, using the lifts, getting cabs to work, avoiding any type of lunchtime walks around some of the great bits of land around the offices...

I've commented on the 'calories in / calories out' simplification before and been shouted down for simplifying a very complex problem. I wonder if this is part of the problem? That there are so many excuses out there that simply taking responsibility for ones own lifestyle is too easily avoided amidst the plethora of easy ways of avoiding a bit of effort?.

I'm not speaking as some stick thin Adonis by the way. 6 Foot 4, 21 stone. I wish most of it was muscle, but it isn't. Horrifically overweight at the moment because I love beer, cheese, food in general and haven't really worked up a sweat in over 6 months except from when I'm loading the car with groceries.

In reply to Big Ger:

That handwriting is terrible

In reply to Tony Jones:


Unfortunately poverty also causes a lot of quantifiable and qualitative changes in attitude. When I was a student, I was quite poor (the maximum loan I could receive didn't even cover my rent, let alone bills, food, transport, books and god forbid - a treat). This 'money anxiety' combined with a stressful life of other demands grinds you down, and eventually you adopt a sort of 'everything is futile' approach where your energies are spent on simply existing. I cannot imagine trying to navigate such a state without my intelligence and family support, and without light at the end of the tunnel (good job in a few years). That would REALLY feel futile wouldn't it? If everything is futile - why do you need to plan for the future?

Agree with the rest of what you wrote though

In reply to SenzuBean:


Hits the nail on the head.

In reply to SenzuBean:

Haha, that's got to be biggest load of complete bullshit I've ever read on these forums.
Lose the the bleeding heart poverty stricken student thing, we've all been there.
Then there's you, from NZ, UK and what is it now, Canada? It's a hard life, eh?

In reply to Lusk:


My point is that even though I did have a bright future in the near future and shedloads of other advantages, I still fell into the mental trap - therefore it must be even harder to not fall into / escape from the mental trap without any of the advantages I had.
It was a particularly hard time of my life - and that gives me a greater appreciation for the struggles of others. Even though it is now in the past, I'm allowed to remember it and use it as a basis for my judgement.

Good day, sir.

In reply to ThunderCat:


If you have a facebook account and want a sane but quite sweary view on diets, have a look at someone called Rebelfit. His views, in a nutshell, are that you need to avoid diets, eat less processed food and be more active. Diets cause yo-yo weight loss and gain.

There's a programme on Channel 4 on Tuesday evening (I think) about how the 'slimming industry' isn't a help to people seeking to lose weight and keep it off.

And on a related note: snacks; snacking. WTF? There is an aisle in the local Tesco devoted not to meat or fish, fruit or vegetables, but to 'snacking'. When did 'snacking' become so important that it became a verb?

OK, it might be a gerund, or a present, past or future participle, or some other goddam grammatical thing. Don't interrupt me, I'm 'ranting' and it's about time Tesco devoted an aisle to that so its customers can let off some steam about the state of the nation we're in when supermarkets can devote a whole aisle to a selection of over-produced, over-promoted, unhealthy chemical 'only 90 calories and not one of them natural' shite designed to 'keep you on the go' in the breaks between your over-produced, over-promoted, unhealthy chemical (etc; see above) breakfast substitute and your over-produced, over- (see above again) lunch replacement.

FFS. Supermarkets already have aisles devoted to 'snacking'; they're the ones full of fruit and veg. And don't get me started on the hypocrisy of a food retailer that makes a big thing about offering kids a free piece of fruit while their mother (or father, or nominated guardian for the duration) shops whilst simultaneously peddling over-produced (etc, you know the drill) meal replacements and between-meal snacks that could be replaced with greater effect, better well-being and at lower cost to the purchaser by a banana, or an apple, or even a carrot?

Harrumph, etc.

T.

In reply to hairyRob:

Does that work for the Yanks?

In reply to SenzuBean:

I've lived in several 'student; cities and it is not often one sees an obese youngster around the campuses. Often in the evenings and mornings the majority of joggers are young folk. Many students (even the party loving ones) seem to be very health conscious nowadays.
Now head to the local ASDA/Tesco etc and you'll see numerous obese folk getting in and out of their stupidly huge cars so what you say about poverty doesn't really ring true if you bother to look around. The fat/obese folk are usually either middle aged folk or young mothers pushing prams (shocking amount of fat mums in the town I now live).
I agree about the stress, and believe that obesity problems for many probably start after leaving education and getting a job (or no job as in many cases).
What the answer is I don't know but saying poverty is the cause just doesn't seem true.

In reply to mack:


Maybe that's when it starts for some but it seems that the problem may be starting sooner for the current generation.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/03/child-obesity-rising-again-...

In reply to FesteringSore:

suger tax?

In reply to Duncan Bourne:


Really, really, really heavy cutlery. Effort used to eat cancels out the calories consumed.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:


Exactly....but it's not news! The website I used to lose 3 stone on has been going for about 15 years and has always worked to that philosophy. It's mainly a huge database of foods with calories and nutritional information about each one, plus a database of exercise and how many calories each activity will burn at various levels for people of various ages and sizes. The extra exercise you do above your "normal" activity level gives you extra calories to consume.

The idea is that you can eat anything you like as long as you log it, so you know how many calories you're eating. You set a goal and input your age, sex, height, weight and activity level and it gives you an allowable calories per day limit which you can achieve anyway you like. When you reach your goal you move onto "maintenance calories". So you're never dieting, you're re-educating your eating habits over time.

I was amazed to see how closely my actual weightloss tracked my "goal curve" as long as I logged everything I ate and all the exercise I did. I'd set 2lb a week as my goal and in 23 weeks my actual loss was 47 lb. I'm still overweight by about 1.5 stones according to BMI charts (which are actually a bit crap as a true indicator) but I "feel" happiest at about 7lb lighter than I am now, so it's back to logging calories for me for 3-4 weeks until it drops. It's amazing what just logging them does in terms of focusing your mind (ie to have a basic white coffee at 35 calories rather than a latte at 200).

In reply to ThunderCat:


But you don't need cutlery to stuff your face with pizza, pasties and pies!

In reply to FesteringSore:

I have no idea what the answer is, except through education or taxes - a bit like the battle against smoking it may take a generation.

Yesterday we had the mother in laws funeral and wake, at which we played a dvd of her village fetes (East Sussex country village) from 1954 and 55. There were many interesting things to observe about that generation, like all men wearing jackets and ties etc. but I don't recall a single overweight person there, couple of hundred people, and I'm talking overweight not obese.
They were only a couple of years out of wartime rationing (but loads of food at the fete and everyone scoffing their faces with cake ) and I'm guessing a high proportion were still in manual labour. A good cross section of society were there, but I think predominantly working class.

How times have changed in a generation, about the only downside was that nearly every male had a fag in his mouth!

In reply to ceri:


^this^ basic life skills should be made part of the curriculum, every subject can play a part in why you should look after yourself, eat healthy and exercise.

In reply to Lusk:


Have you got a camera hidden in my house?!?! How did you know

In reply to FesteringSore:
Shit food should be sold like cigarettes are now.

Highly taxed, unbranded and emblazoned with pictures of potential health outcomes.

I can imagine the images now:

Honey Monster in a motobility scooter
Tony The Tiger having his feet amputated
Colonel Sanders with a guide dog
Sexy Cadbury's Caramel rabbit having a gastric band fitted
Ronald Macdonald shopping at High & Mighty

In reply to SenzuBean:


No Future!!!!! Better go climbing every day then.

In reply to FesteringSore:

It's really not that bad in the UK. Or rather it could be a lot worse.

I remember going to Florida as a youth in the late 90s. It was pretty common then to see people on their 20s and 30s who were so obese that they used a Zimmer frame for mobility. Most public restrooms had oversized toilets in one or more of the stalls. Being morbidly obese had apparently been completely normalised.

I've no idea what it's like now, 20 years later. I never went back.

In reply to wintertree:


Florida has mostly sunk.

In reply to mack:


Again - you have totally missed what I said. I never said students are going to end up obese. What I said, was that when I was a student - I was very poor, and that led to money anxiety, and that led to making many bad decisions. I only got a taste of what it was like - not a buffet. A taste is enough to let you know what shit tastes like.

In reply to SenzuBean:

In a slightly more convoluted way, I think being really poor as a kid helped to shape me into over eating. I remember getting tastes of nice food and thinking 'f*ck me, this is amazing', but of there never being enough money around to ever buy enough of it to really satisfy my hunger. I always wanted more. Always.

Fast forward 30 odd years and lots of disposable income, I always seem to feel the need to eat until I'm full...and then eat some more. Funny how those little habits get under your skin and fester for decades innit.

In reply to SenzuBean:

And you missed my point, you said 'poor' and I said many of the obese drive big expensive cars... There are probably many reasons for obesity but to blame it on being poor isn't right...

In reply to ThunderCat:


It does seem to be a common theme, that strategies developed while young take a very long time to try and change.

Here's a nice article written by someone who grew up poor: http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-develop-growing-up-p...

In reply to ThunderCat:

There has to be some truth in the genetic / environmental causes for obesity though.
I'm one of those annoying people who stuffs their face with cake and never gets fat. I actually have to force myself to eat more in order to keep my weight up. There is no way I could get as fat as many people I see every day, however hard I tried. My 9 year old daughter on the other hand is a bit overweight. She appears to feel constantly hungry, especially when stressed. On the bright side she will eat anything, so we ensure that she eats healthily, but we just can't get her weight down to a good level. She had a tough start to life, and there is good evidence that this can lead to self control problems such as overeating and substance abuse.
I'm not saying that fat people are blameless, it's just that it's a lot easier for some of us to maintain a healthy weight than others. The only solution I can see is a nanny state that makes it much harder and more expensive to eat unhealthily.

In reply to mack:


I never said poverty was the only reason people are obese - I just said it was one of the biggest reasons.

In reply to SenzuBean:

Blaming obesity on poverty is just lazy thinking. Where's the evidence it is the biggest cause?

In reply to SenzuBean:


That's a good article. I've heard it all before, but it's very well put.
It's important for us privileged people whose early years had enough food, warmth and care from attentive loving parents to try and understand how tough it is for people who missed out on one or more of those things. The poor decision making and destructive behaviour get ingrained at a very early age, and take a lifetime to escape.

In reply to FesteringSore:

Ive just come back from a week in New Orleans. We in the UK are by comparison a bunch of skinny health freaks. Whilst I had a whale of a time, the whole ststem is f*ckrd over there with the portion sizes that they are.

In reply to Hooo:


(Bastard)

You're side of the equation I can understand. Shovel food in but never gain weight.

It's the other side - "I barely eat, yet I'm 20 stone". It's simply not possible, is it? Creating fat and stored energy from a prolonged calorific deficiency is impossible.

In reply to FesteringSore:

Another thought comes to mind, reading some posts linking poverty with obesity.

How does one become obese if living in poverty? Surely if a person has enough money to maintain an obese lifestyle then they are not in poverty, which moves on to our interpretation of poverty. Is our westernised idea of poverty far removed from actual poverty?

In my mind, the words obese and poverty do not belong together.

In reply to Moley:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/29/unemployed-more-likely-to-b...

In reply to SenzuBean:


That brainwashing by our parents goes very deep, and it's understandable. My grandad was a miner, very little food (grew his own tomatoes, cucumbers, leeks, cabbages, onions). |To leave food on your plate was frowned upon ("there are starving kids in the world, you know!!!"). As a result, I find it bloody hard to leave food on a plate, even when I'm not hungry.

I often test myself when having a meal...I try to leave a little bit (even a couple of forkfuls) on the plate at the end of a meal if I've actually sated my hunger. I fail pretty much every time.

In reply to Moley:


It's an interesting one, It's easy to make the assumption that "if you are poor, how can you afford to buy enough food to eat enough to be obese"...but I guess if the demographics prove that facts, then there is something else at play....You are in a poorer demographic, therefore you tend towards the cheaper, less healthy foods, drink more perhaps? Exercise less? More sedentary lifestyle perhaps?

(all assumptions here - just thinking aloud)

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

And the sugar in EVERYTHING!

In reply to ThunderCat:


No, of course it's not possible. Put them on a 1000 calories a day and they'd lose weight rapidly. The thing is that they are eating an amount that would see me losing weight, but makes them put it on. It's just not fair!