UKC

Yorkshire 3 peaks v UK 3 peaks......

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 r1ch79 14 Feb 2017
I have done the Yorkshire 3 peaks however the missus wants to do the national one

Im not really up for it tbh

racing up and down some of our finest then getting back in a car for a few hours then repeat doesnt sound like an enjoyable day to me

the Y3P was great as its one nice walk but the missus loves a bandwagon and fancies the UK3P.....

reagrds difficulty in terms of fitness and fatigue which is the hardest

I have always imagined that having a 3 hour break eating and sleepign in a car makes the UK3P a bit less graft

am I wrong??
 Simon Caldwell 14 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

uk3p is a driving challenge, with a few hours off while slogging up and down some hills...
 Offwidth 14 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

Worth a read for the complex issues involved.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/the-three-peaks-challenge--what-do-you-think
 Chris the Tall 14 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

As everyone else says, the UK 3 peaks (in one go) has some very negative aspects and is more of a driving challenge than anything else.

A more logical step up from the Y3P for the outdoor-lover is the welsh 3,000ers
 SouthernSteve 14 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> As everyone else says, the UK 3 peaks (in one go) has some very negative aspects and is more of a driving challenge than anything else. A more logical step up from the Y3P for the outdoor-lover is the welsh 3,000ers

Quite agree, but quite a big increase in length!
OP r1ch79 14 Feb 2017
I love the welsh 3000 as I learnt my business in Snowdonia but the missus wont do it

she aint confident on aretes and wont countenance crib goch and even so wouldnt like starting and finishing in the dark and would grimmace at the thought of sleeping rough on a mountainside..........

I really want to get her into stuff like that an think a CMD to the Ben might be better as she's not seen the CMD whereas she's yomped along the pyg track and looked up at Crib G and her head wont let her approach it and I wont force the issue

I reckon if I tell her were going the Ben and take her via CMD I mioght get her to think about the Goch but at the mo she got a head block on it and Tryffan.... I suppose you either look at them and think hell yeah lets do it.... or you look at it and think oh shit.....

anyways I am rambling (not scrambling which is a pity as I know what id rather do)

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 Tony the Blade 14 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

I'm going to agree with others, the tedium and weariness of the driving means that the UK3P is tough, but for all the wrong reasons.

As a freelancer I won't work the events due to the points highlighted in the BMC link previously given.
 Mark Collins 14 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

I'm with you, I think the UK3P would be a bit rubbish.

What about attempting the Y3P in one direction and then god forbid, having a nice rest in the valley before attempting it in the opposite direction the day after.

Alternatively, and if on the off chance you happen to be into sailing, a more manageable version of the following could be interesting:
http://www.scottishislandspeaksrace.com/
OP r1ch79 14 Feb 2017
In reply to Mark Collins:

doing it backwards would be fun.....

i mean actually walking backwards for 26 miles......

no sure how hard nav would be tho usign recipricol bearings all day whilst facing the wrong way.....

now i think about it it does sound a challenge.......
 Chris the Tall 14 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

I was going to point you in the direction of the walkers equivalent of Hard Rock - Big Walks

http://www.needlesports.com/needlesports/hardrock/walks.htm

But it appears to be out of print and the link to the list gets a 404

From memory it includes such things as Langdale Horseshoe (Pikes->Scafell Pike->Pike O'Blisco), Derwent watershed and possibly Edale Skyline
 Simon Caldwell 14 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> A more logical step up from the Y3P for the outdoor-lover is the welsh 3,000ers

Or the Lake District 3000ers? Not as good a route IMO but there aren't any worrying aretes.

Or the Old County Tops route - as per the race but without the rush.
 DaveHK 14 Feb 2017
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

> Or the Lake District 3000ers? Not as good a route IMO but there aren't any worrying aretes.Or the Old County Tops route - as per the race but without the rush.

Or the Bob Graham over 3 days? Or just stringing a couple of BG legs together.
 DancingOnRock 14 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:
Yorkshire 3 peaks gets my vote.

I'd be impressed by anyone who does it under 7 hours. If you start out at 8am you'll be in the pub by 5pm.

We managed the first 13miles in just over 3hours then my friend's knee went on the steps coming down. The second 13 took us a very leisurely 6 hours.

I may go back to attempt a sub 7 later this year.

.

Logistics is much simpler and it's a great walk.
Post edited at 16:46
 Antony Mariani 14 Feb 2017
In reply to Mark Collins:

My parents combined the UK 3 peaks with a cycling end to end challenge.....

Doing Scafell from Langdale, and Helvellyn from Thirlmere and Skiddaw from Keswick, cycling between, might provide a good challenge and avoids anything scrambly for the original poster?
abseil 14 Feb 2017
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

> uk3p is a driving challenge.....

I agree with you, so let's all be honest and rename it the M6 challenge.
 hokkyokusei 15 Feb 2017
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> Yorkshire 3 peaks gets my vote. I'd be impressed by anyone who does it under 7 hours. If you start out at 8am you'll be in the pub by 5pm. We managed the first 13miles in just over 3hours then my friend's knee went on the steps coming down. The second 13 took us a very leisurely 6 hours. I may go back to attempt a sub 7 later this year. .Logistics is much simpler and it's a great walk.

Sub 7 walking would be hard, I reckon. You'd be practically running, and once you're running, it's much quicker
 stevieb 15 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

as you can see, no one on UKC is mad keen on the national 3 peaks as a challenge. But back to your original question, the walking for the national 3 peaks is significantly harder than Y3P - it involves something like 9700 feet of ascent instead of 5400 feet.
And if you do go for it, you really really should have a non walking driver.
 Rampikino 15 Feb 2017
In reply to hokkyokusei:

Superfit with my dad a few years ago we did it in not much more than 9 hours.

When I ran it in 2002 I did it in 4:59. Hoping for 4:30 this year.

As a walk it is very varied but has certain points that break up the rhythm. I agree that if you want to go Sub 7:00 then you would either have to cut out all drink/food stops and basically fast walk the whole way around.
 The New NickB 15 Feb 2017
In reply to SouthernSteve:

> Quite agree, but quite a big increase in length!

Ascent yes, length not really, it's about half as far again, maybe slightly less.
 The New NickB 15 Feb 2017
In reply to hokkyokusei:

I suspect he is talking about running. I've done it sub 5:30 as a leisurely training run, a few of the guys I ran it with will be racing it in April, targeting sub 4.

The 1969 winner is a mate of mine, I think he did it in 2:44, although he reckons the old course was faster.
 HTPumlumon 15 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

A fair amount of snobbery on here towards the poor old UK3P.

No, it’s not generally an event for experienced folk with a love of lonely places, but it can be an excellent introduction to the mountains, and a great way to make friends.

My first company out of Uni had a tradition of doing the UK3P annually, as part of an organised charity event. I was only beginning my love affair with mountains then, so training weekends in preparation were a great way to start exploring new scenery, whilst also meeting new people from different parts of the company.

Yes, the driving element is definitely a major component, but the careful logistical planning, down to picking which roads to take in and out of the Lake District, all added to sense of adventure and expedition.

Whilst yes, you’re on a timetable, and yes, the routes aren’t necessarily the most exciting lines, they’re still wonderful mountains, which you get to enjoy at hours of the day when you might not otherwise be there. The sun setting as we descended Scafell Pike, and then summiting Snowdon at dawn the following day are memories that will stay with me for a long time.

Finally, whilst I’ve never done Y3P, so can’t compare, I would guess the UK3P is more of a challenge. The height gain is significantly more, and the 5&6 hour road breaks can actually be a hindrance – if you’ve not done any training, then 6 hours on the Ben, followed by 6 hours cramped in a minibus are likely to leave you as stiff as a poker!

The Welsh 3000s (in 24 hours), which I did they year after I did the 3 peaks, are a big step up again in comparison though.
My advice - grin and bear the UK3P, and use it as a way of getting your wife more into the outdoors.
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 hokkyokusei 15 Feb 2017
In reply to Rampikino:

> ... When I ran it in 2002 I did it in 4:59. Hoping for 4:30 this year.

You mean the actual Fell Race? I entered last year, but didn't run due to injury, but I'm in again this year. I've run around before, with others, for fun, in about 6 hrs, but I;m not sure who was holding who back. Realistically I'm just hoping to make the cut-offs.

 DaveHK 15 Feb 2017
In reply to hokkyokusei:

I'm in for this year too.
 Rampikino 15 Feb 2017
In reply to hokkyokusei:

Yes - the fell race.

I'm also running it in June as a group, more for fun and without the pressures of cut offs.
 patrick_b 15 Feb 2017
In reply to DaveHK:

The Wharfedale 3 Peaks is a nice day out if you're local to the area - Birks Fell, Buckden Pike and Great Whernside, from Kettlewell. It's like a quiet Y3P.

If feeling keen, you can also add on the normal Y3P to make the Yorkshire 6, as a linear route ending at Ribbleshead. Similar in length to the Welsh 3000s.
 DaveHK 15 Feb 2017
In reply to patrick_b:
> The Wharfedale 3 Peaks is a nice day out if you're local to the area - Birks Fell, Buckden Pike and Great Whernside, from Kettlewell. It's like a quiet Y3P. If feeling keen, you can also add on the normal Y3P to make the Yorkshire 6, as a linear route ending at Ribbleshead. Similar in length to the Welsh 3000s.

Hadn't thought of either of those. Might do that when I'm down at Easter. Cheers.
Post edited at 16:25
 DancingOnRock 15 Feb 2017
In reply to The New NickB:

Yes.

I meant 7:00 hours is about on the limit for walking. Anyone who does it quicker is doing very well - running or walking.

But 8:00-17:00 (9hours) should be easily possible for a good day out.
 DaveHK 15 Feb 2017
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> Yes. I meant 7:00 hours is about on the limit for walking. Anyone who does it quicker is doing very well - running or walking. But 8:00-17:00 (9hours) should be easily possible for a good day out.

In one of the older Yorkshire walking guides my dad has the author said his record was about 4:30 and that he had 'run sections of it'. I always thought this must be a misprint in some regard as 4:30 is fairly speedy and would require one to run all but the steepest parts of the climbs.
 Tony the Blade 15 Feb 2017
In reply to HTPumlumon:

It's not snobbery my friend, mine's an opinion based on doing both (the Y3P many times, the UK3Ps once).

Have a read of this, and tell me if you still think it's an excellent introduction to the mountains.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/three-peaks-challenge
 DancingOnRock 15 Feb 2017
In reply to DaveHK:

Pen-y-Ghent to Whernside is about 15miles and easy running. The other 10miles is a bit more challenging.
 DaveHK 15 Feb 2017
In reply to DancingOnRock:

I know, I've done it. It was the fact that the writer was suggesting he did 4.30 with some sort of walk/run approach. That doesn't really add up.
 SouthernSteve 15 Feb 2017
In reply to The New NickB:

Yes I should have used better English!
llechwedd 15 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

I did the national 300 peaks in 2012, cycling between them.
My time was about April- July
 HTPumlumon 16 Feb 2017
In reply to Tony the Blade:

What a myopic, one-sided article.
For something a bit more balanced, have a read of this, also from the BMC, and already linked once in this article https://www.thebmc.co.uk/the-three-peaks-challenge--what-do-you-think

The crucial point for me is that an estimate of UK3P participants is 30,000, compared with 700,000 overall who climb these hills.

Of course, you can go about it the wrong way, and I'm sure there plenty of "Johns" out there, but generally, if you've entered an event with a reputable charity, they will provide a lot of guidance and advice on training, will have liaised with local MRTs etc, and will also typically have some strict criteria around kit, timings and toilets etc (eg, being forced to use the closest public WC to Wasdale as a road checkpoint).

I have seen, from personal experience, how the training for UK3P allows people to build up their mountain-craft from small hills upwards, often helped by more experienced friends, and who, post UK3P have started enjoying the hills on their own. That's why I think it can be an excellent introduction to the mountains.

Frankly a bit baffled why you think 300 people in 15 minibuses, with proper kit, often supervised by experts, raising money for charity, is somehow worse than 300 members of the public in 100 cars, with God-knows what kit, often with no idea what they're doing, doing it for the hell of it.

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 katyc 16 Feb 2017
In reply to wannabeagoat:

I've done both. A few years ago for the N3P. I've walked the Y3P several times over the years, with friends, with my mum and also ran it last year in just over 5 hours. Whilst the man made path from PYG to Whernside detracts a little from the fun of running through bogs - I guess they had to do something to decrease the erosion (I appreciate you can still access the traditional route).

The Y3P is by far the easiest and I would say by far the most enjoyable. I'm afraid when I did the N3P I was a bit naive to the impact etc. and wanted to do the challenge as it was, under 24 hours. I found it very stressful, tiring for the drivers (dangerously so- id recommend a driver (or 2) that weren't also walking) and, despite the 'rest and eating inbetween', it was horrendously difficult to drag yourself out of a warm car after muscles had seized up from the previous walk to start another. Having said that, I remember enjoying the the sense of achievement at the end, though I'd never ever want to do it again. Don't underestimate how physically fit you need to be for this challenge.

I guess though, ultimately, enjoy whatever you choose, be respectful to the environment and always remember how fortuante we are to have such great scenery and challenges around us.



 The New NickB 16 Feb 2017
In reply to katyc:

My only experience of National three peakers, was a few years ago when after bivvying on Snowdon with a plan to walk the Welsh 3000ers in the day, we encountered four lads trying to shelter from the cold, not knowing how to get off the mountain and getting progressively colder (it was April, but had snowed overnight on high ground). We escorted them to a point were they could safely follow the Llamberis path and returned to our walk. Dread to think what sort of state they would have been in if they had stayed for a few more hours until the first train / opening of the cafe.
 DancingOnRock 16 Feb 2017
In reply to HTPumlumon:
I don't think anyone thinks it's 'worse'.

The over riding feeling from anyone who spends times in the hills is that there are better quieter hills than the three big ones.

That could be fairly snobby I suppose.

My feeling is that anyone doing them singularly would be staying local and spending their money locally. Most doing the N3P would be selfsufficient and purchased supplies in their home town supermarket. Although would probably stay local for the first night and last night.
Post edited at 14:44
 The New NickB 16 Feb 2017
In reply to The New NickB:

*Llanberis*
 GrahamD 16 Feb 2017
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> I don't think anyone thinks it's 'worse'.The over riding feeling from anyone who spends times in the hills is that there are better quieter hills than the three big ones.

Also, Scafell Pike isn't particularly big on the UK scale of things. Its only claim to fame is being the highest point in the flattest country in the UK
 Simon Caldwell 16 Feb 2017
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> there are better quieter hills than the three big ones.

I like all three. But in each case, the quickest way up (ie the one usually taken by the 3 peakers) is the dullest available.

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