UKC

Climbing magazines and clubs on their way out?

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 Chris Sansum 15 Feb 2017

With 'Vertical' magazine ceasing production last year, and both 'Climb' and 'Climbing' magazines switching to just bimonthly issues, has the printed word had its day as far as climbing magazines go? Maybe some climbers are less willing to part with cash for a publication now that there is so much free online stuff around?

Another potential casualty of the virtual world I guess.

Another one may be climbing clubs - the membership numbers are harder to maintain as people find new online ways of getting in contact with like-minded individuals, with no cost involved (forums, Wh@tsapp, F@cebook etc).

The new mentality seems to be why pay for these kind of things when they are available online for free? I guess the world is changing. Life is more expensive and people are less willing or able to part with money. The online alternatives offer free convenience, although sometimes at the expense of quality and the overall experience.

Maybe one day soon we will only be able to look back nostalgically and remember these kind of things.
Post edited at 17:06
 mrphilipoldham 15 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

..and yet Private Eye is at it's highest circulation since it's beginning. Print isn't dead.. but many publications need to embrace change.
 Doug 15 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

Vertical is still published in French (http://www.vertical-magazine.com/magazine ). Slightly different market but aren't book sales starting to rise again ?
 pebbles 15 Feb 2017
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

I agree. I don't think it's just about changing technology, it's also about formulaic content. I stopped subscribing to a popular climbing mag because after a while it felt the articles were getting very repetitive. - the same old gear review/crag portrait/introduction to x formula. but I still buy climbing mags when they've got interesting content...a really inspiring photo article, a well written article about somewhere off the beaten track (not just half a dozen photos and a quick summary of the crags at a sports venue) or a thoughtful article about someone with an interesting story to tell or argument to put ....I'd buy that.
 Shani 15 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

I think that cutting edge climbing is a bit boring. How inspired can you get about "the worlds 5th 9b"? In contrast, look at the attention Dawn Wall got. Also, climbing seems to lack characters and general 'craziness'. Alex Hannold would be another who isn't climbing the hardest stuff, but clearly his mind-blowing solo stuff resonates hugely.

Adventure sells. Fear of falling sells. I'm sure good photographs (drone shots?) and well written articles by mad climbers would still sell.... Andy Pollitt's book seemed to tick a few of those boxes and he's not climbed for 20 years!

Of course this could be me just being middle aged. Perhaps the next big thing in climbing is already planning that onsight solo of Indian Face from a party in a field in Bethesda....
 mrphilipoldham 15 Feb 2017
In reply to pebbles:

It's interesting you say that. Publishing in Germany for example is different to the UK in this respect, and you can buy such publications.. they do very well too, by all accounts. Unfortunately too many UK publications are run by bean counters today, who cut back on photography budgets. Coupled with enough folk happy to give away pictures for a credit (sh*t but free...) it's a recipe for a decline in quality and as a direct result, circulation.
1
 stp 15 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

I think one of the problems with print is that by the time something comes out now it's already old news. I haven't bought climbing mags for many years. When I was younger they seemed too expensive. But now there's not enough content to keep me interested. I'll probably only be interested in one or two articles so it's doesn't seem worth buying one for that. It's probably down to the fact that climbing is a very diverse activity these days so a general mag trying to cover everything doesn't really grab anyone that much. There's bouldering, sport, trad, alpine, big wall, competitions and just indoor.

Maybe 'The Circuit' has the right idea. It only covers competition climbing and there's only one issue per year. I think it's going to expand to cover performance climbing (rock) as well but whatever it's basically carving out it's own niche.


Not sure about the internet replacing clubs though. I think it's surely a bit of risk meeting up with someone you don't know to go climbing with them for the day. Might be a total nutter, unsafe etc. I imagine that could happen in club situation too but because you meet the people first it doesn't seem so committing.
 summo 15 Feb 2017
In reply to pebbles:

> I agree. I don't think it's just about changing technology, it's also about formulaic content.

Exactly the same in mags like runners world.

 mrphilipoldham 15 Feb 2017
In reply to stp:

I think that's the crux of the matter.. publications need to change their remit. They can't keep up with 'live' news, the newspaper struggle enough.. let alone monthlies! If they changed their coverage to digging out decent features of which time isn't an issue then I think there'd be more interest. Go deeper into whatever the subject, show us something we might not stumble across covered by the free online media etc.
 pebbles 15 Feb 2017
In reply to mrphilipoldham:
yup. gear reviews, "how to make a belay" and "the climbing at crag Y" articles are the sort of stuff that people tend to look for online. but it's not the sort of stuff that makes me pick up a mag and think "That looks good, I'll buy that this month" . now a well written article on gwen Moffat say, or somebody's first hand account of big walling in the antarctic, or a funny article about a near epic, or just a good argumentative rant...now I can feel the moths in my wallet starting to get a bit nervous. I go online for factual information, but I want a magazine to be enjoyable or inspiring reading
Post edited at 21:10
 airborne 15 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

A few thoughts, not necessarily linked...

Print is better for inspiration, online is better for information.

Media has gone in both directions. Look at the advent of high-quality inspirational publications such as Sidetracked, which started out online and now is in print.

There's a very brave move that publications might need to make, with ever-decreasing ad revenue and print circulation. In 2009 the London Evening Standard moved from a cover charge to being free, the theory (correctly in this case) being that circulation would rise and therefore become more attractive to advertisers, which replaced the lost revenue. If Climb or Climber became free, would you pick them up?
In reply to Chris Sansum:

> With 'Vertical' magazine ceasing production last year, Another potential casualty of the virtual world I guess.

The virtual World is a faking disaster.
Real World more interesting.
Vertical French version is a pleasure to read, free French lesson.
Not expensive.
Clubs changed with expanded mobility, not with the digital revolution.
DC
 3leggeddog 16 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

So far as clubs go, my local club is enjoying quite a purple patch, very active and attracting new members. I put this down to Facebook, people see the photos and want to join in, meets can be arranged ad hoc and changed at short notice. A real bonus compared to the old days.

The cc is seeing numbers and hut revenue rising, this may be down to the relaxation of the entry criteria.

So I don't think clubs are dying.

Magazines are a different case, with any specialist publication you tend to have around 18 months of content before you start repeating yourself. Couple this with the Internet and it is easy to see them dying out.

I miss the vertical of the 80s and early 90s though, all those pretty girls.
 Duncan Bourne 16 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

I wouldn't necessarily write off mags just yet. People are heading back to books after the Kindle fashion rage mags may do the same. A lot depends on content and readability.

Clubs are not just about finding a partner. They provide cheap accomodation, events, sense of community etc.
 john arran 16 Feb 2017
In reply to stp:

> Maybe 'The Circuit' has the right idea. It only covers competition climbing and there's only one issue per year. I think it's going to expand to cover performance climbing (rock) as well but whatever it's basically carving out it's own niche.

Thanks for alerting us to this - I hadn't come across it before. Incidentally 'The Circuit' used to be the name of my monthly Climber Magazine comps column, so it's curious to see it getting a new lease of life. Although in reality the name was a compromise right from the start, since the editor Bernard Newman was very much opposed to my preferred title 'The Podium', I think because he thought it glamorised success a little too much for his taste!
 carl dawson 16 Feb 2017
My criterion for buying magazines was if they worth keeping... and that usually meant that they had a really good destination article, critically if they had topos to places where a guidebook was not yet available. Unlike many European mags, UK mags rarely carry this type of article. Chatty articles on personalities have grown in their stead. I don't buy UK magazines any more.
 stp 16 Feb 2017
In reply to john arran:

> the editor Bernard Newman was very much opposed to my preferred title 'The Podium'

Ha . Yeah I can't imagine Bernard going for that somehow.
 Neil Williams 16 Feb 2017
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

> ..and yet Private Eye is at it's highest circulation since it's beginning. Print isn't dead.. but many publications need to embrace change.

The current political climate is certainly a big seller of that particular publication...

FWIW, UKC kind of fulfils the role of a print magazine. That's happening in other areas too.
 Andy Say 16 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

Yup. Walls are the new clubs. (Sorry: 'gyms' are the new clubs)
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 Ridge 16 Feb 2017
In reply to summo:

> Exactly the same in mags like runners world.

It's the same for the likes of TGO, Trail, the various cycling and MTB publications. Getting out and doing is better than reading about it, there needs to be really inspiring articles to maintain circulation.
 mrphilipoldham 16 Feb 2017
In reply to Neil Williams:
Exactly, and that's why if they wish to survive they need to offer something away from the latest news. Do away with it entirely, focus on being a classy magazine with well researched, well written feature articles with decent photography to back it up. Sod the latest E9 that's been climbed decked out in sponsorship gear.. I'd rather see a photo journal on say.. climbs of the pre-1900s revisited, with written interest added through some of the history.. or whatever. Something to inspire me.
Post edited at 22:11
In reply to Chris Sansum:

> The new mentality seems to be why pay for these kind of things when they are available online for free? I guess the world is changing. Life is more expensive and people are less willing or able to part with money.

I think the price of magazines these days is a big factor. £4 to £5 is far too much for a magazine especially when they're all full of adverts. I'm sure if magazines were more sensibly and realistically priced, say £1.50 to £2 they'd sell far more copies.

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 Ian Parnell 17 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

I think current times offer challenges to both clubs and magazines. But a challenge needn't be ruinous - it can present an opportunity. Over the past few years there has been a noticeable change in the magazine landscape with paper publications focusing on the things they can do better than the web - in-depth coverage, expert analysis, highest quality imagery, long form essays etc.

There are now many new titles, and an improvement in a lot of existing publications. Whilst some magazines are struggling others are having success - our sales at Climb Magazine are steadily increasing and we have had a substantial increase in subscriptions.

Quite a few of the posters here seem to have a strong view about current magazines - but then say they haven't looked at one for ages....

I would recommend having a good look at the latest issue of Climb - Nick Bullock's piece has elicited lots of positive feedback including " Just a note to say how much I enjoyed the quality of the writing, the use of English and the whole approach to writing about the trip. A highlight of recent magazine articles" There is also an 8 page piece on Japan - which is as revealing about its unique culture as its climbing. A look into the life of Tim Hakim, a non sponsored local hero, hoping to climb his dream route before early onset Parkinson's robs him of the chance, in-depth reporting from the likes of world authority Lindsay Griffin and photographic work of a rare quality such as Sam Bie's images, etc.

In reply to Gerry and magazine costs - cheap mags have been tried - Gravity didn't last long. At the moment you can get 6 issues of Climb with a free digital issue with your printed issue plus a screwgate and belay device worth £42 all for only £25!

I think there is very much a place for magazines alongside the impressive work that Alan and colleagues have been doing at UKC and elsewhere. We do different things well and compliment each other.
 planetmarshall 17 Feb 2017
In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

> I think the price of magazines these days is a big factor. £4 to £5 is far too much for a magazine especially when they're all full of adverts.

My Alpinist subscription works out at about £12 per issue and I consider it money well spent.
 Simon Caldwell 17 Feb 2017
In reply to 3leggeddog:

> So far as clubs go, my local club is enjoying quite a purple patch

Same with ours - our monthly hut meets have started to fill up again, and the next one is oversubscribed despite being an 8 hour drive away.

Internet based groups are all very well (and are cheap, obviously) but rely on the enthusiasm of their organisers. One near us folded when the guy running it lost interest.
 Michael Gordon 17 Feb 2017
In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

Hard to see it being possible to produce climbing magazines for sale at £2!
 Mick Ward 17 Feb 2017
In reply to Ian Parnell:

> I think there is very much a place for magazines alongside the impressive work that Alan and colleagues have been doing at UKC and elsewhere. We do different things well and compliment each other.

Agree - why UKC and mags might even complement each other too...

(Just foolin' around.)

Mick
 seankenny 18 Feb 2017
In reply to carl dawson:

> My criterion for buying magazines was if they worth keeping... and that usually meant that they had a really good destination article, critically if they had topos to places where a guidebook was not yet available. Unlike many European mags, UK mags rarely carry this type of article.

^^this
I bought the latest Climb because it has a big piece on Greece which looks well worth a visit. I'm sure Spain is full of amazing crags that get featured in Desnivel but which we never hear about. (Alas, I can't read Spanish too good.) Maybe better collaboration between the Continental media and our own would be one way forward?

 oldie 18 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

Anything magazines can do to up their game can also be done online. At the end of the day its just words and pictures. Websites can do this plus videos, immediacy, banter, communication etc. So hardcopy magazines are probably on the way out. Its even no advantage for most to buy a mag for a train journey as many have smartphones etc or can download stuff.
The club I'm in has about doubled over the past two years, mainly through recruitment at the local wall, frequent summer meets, good online communication,trip arranging and banter, associate BMC membership with discounts and good value courses, and at a fairly small financial outlay (approx £20). Oh, and above all keen, friendly people.
I know several people who appear to have joined the CC primarily for the network of huts, while remaining most active with a smaller club.
In reply to Chris Sansum:
I do think there's still a role for climbing magazines and longer, well-written articles, which are almost like essays or a book chapter, and for beautiful photography. My local wall has a collection of old magazines in the cafe area, and you can't beat sitting with a hot drink and browsing through past times. Well-written web copy is, by its nature, often in bite-sized chunks, and not the same as a meaty print article.

There's also a theory around that the internet is heavily self-selecting, in that we tend to read articles shared by friends with similar views. A magazine can put articles in front of us that we would never normally read, and at a time when we are happy to give it some dedicated attention, unlike online, when there are many other distractions.

I actually think Summit does a pretty good job of covering a range of outdoors-related articles, many of which I would never normally stumble across online.
Post edited at 16:46
 David Coley 26 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

> Another one may be climbing clubs - the membership numbers are harder to maintain as people find new online ways of getting in contact with like-minded individuals, with no cost involved (forums, Wh@tsapp, F@cebook etc).

Chris, out of interest, is this based on fact? Are membership numbers proving harder to maintain? We have 3 clubs in my part of Devon alone, and one has >120 members.
 James_Kendal 26 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

Our club in Kendal is going strong, we have 20 more members than at the same time last year.
Removed User 26 Feb 2017
In reply to Chris Sansum:

I think magazines are and I think they should be on the way out. It's an outddated business model. Instant access to literally everything they contain aside from exclusive magazine only interviews makes them redundant. I can go direct to the content I want, for nothing, ad free.

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