UKC

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone else gets really knackered in their triceps when climbing? When I'm on anything steeper than vertical I get a really pumped feeling in my triceps way before any forearm pump sets in. I try and climb straight armed where possible so not sure if this is a technique thing or a weakness.
I'm not bad at press ups for a girl but struggle with chin ups (can only manage 3). Wonder if anyone else gets this and has any tips? Thanks!

In reply to EmSB:

I think you answered your own question, go work those triceps! I would suggest dips off bars, drop to your armpits as there's no real way to escape out of using these muscles whereas depending on the speed, width of hand placement and how you drop and rise on the push up you could be targeting your chest, shoulders and back muscles. If the dip is too hard to begin with hold a theraband between the bars then put your weight on it to take some of the load off. You can use this band holding trick to stabilise gymnastic rings when learning a new skill or breaking into an exercise.

With regards to pull ups, work up to do 5-6 in a row, then if you can do 3-5 sets like this you need to add weight. If your shoulders are up by your ears like uncle Fester or you stick your head/neck forward or you swing/kip during the exercises you need to work your scapula and core strength. Again a light band or pulley to take off weight if you cant do the full set/reps is useful, you want to reach failure but not immediately on your first or second rep, aim to fail around 3-5 set in.

In reply to EmSB:

What sort of grade are you talking?

In reply to EmSB:

While tricep work will help, but it does sound like you could do with some better footwork technique. I'm certainly not mega strong in the triceps, but they are very rarely my weakness - 99% of the time it's forearm pump or poor body shape/footwork.

I have a couple of female climbing partners that like you struggle to do more than a few pulls ups, but they never complain of tricep pump, they do seem to glide balletically up the wall - I've learnt a huge amount from watching their technique over the years.

Another absolute essential on steep stuff is to be able to read the route well. If you know where you are going you don't waste energy having a look/feel around/trying a move twice etc

In reply to EmSB:

Do you mean triceps, or biceps? Biceps are the ones that normally get tired on steep ground where you are pulling. triceps get tired when you are pressing down.
Pull ups target biceps, press ups target triceps.
Sounds like you are asking about the wrong muscle group and the advice given is aiming at biceps but calling them triceps.

In reply to johncook:

Well spotted. Biceps makes much more sense.

In reply to EmSB:

Sounds like your strength is your finger strength and your weakness is upper arm and pulling strength then.

I find I get a bit of upper arm fatigue on really steep routes on relatively large holds. The larger holds for me means my finger strength doesn't give out before my arm strength. My arms tire because they are then the weakest link in the chain.


Chin ups are a much harder exercise than press ups so it's to be expected you can't do as many. If you work on these on a regular basis chin ups (palms facing you) and pull ups (palms facing away) are great way to improve that type of strength. If you've got a bar or fingerboard you can do these on then that'll help a great deal.

I've just been reading about the greasing the groove method to improve strength really quickly. Basically it involves doing as many pull ups in a day every day, whilst staying as fresh as possible. For you this would involve doing one or two reps with at least 5 minute rest between sets throughout the day or when you can.

In reply to stp:

Thanks everyone for the replies! I definitely mean triceps which is why I posted as I know it seems weird as I think this is unusual as I wouldn't think they're used that much generally when climbing. Any ideas if there might be something I'm doing with my arm position when climbing which is tiring this muscle group more than usual? Don't think footwork's the issue as delicate slabs if anything are my strong point (climbing 6s to 7a) and it's on the steeper ground I have the tricep problem. Thanks for the tips on training upper arm strength- I think that's definitely something to work (and I definitely do an uncle fester on pull ups)! I'll give these training tips a go!

In reply to EmSB:

I've recently had some soreness in my triceps which feels quite akin to them being pumped whilst climbing, so you're not the only one! Even though most climbing moves don't require you to use your triceps for difficult movements, they will have a stabilising effect whenever you use your bicep, so perhaps you have a disparity in strength between these muscles? Also, I'm not sure if push ups are a great measure of tricep strength as if your chest muscles are strong then I guess they could cover for relative tricep weakness.

The biggest thing that strikes me in your last post is about your shoulders being up by your ears when doing pull ups. About half of all of my injuries in the past have originated from poor shoulder stability. I don't know anatomy well enough to know how they could be related, but it wouldn't surprise me if doing some should stabilisation would help resolve problems further down the chain.

I came across this video yesterday which may be of help:

https://www.epictv.com/media/podcast/training-for-climbing---stability/6058...

Hope it resolves soon

In reply to EmSB:
If you do dips to build strength and stamina in your triceps, don't lower all the way down, as the last bit can get you badly injured.

If you have access to a fitness gym, there is often a machine that enables you to do assisted dips, and pull ups.

But press ups, and shoulder press with dumbbells will be great both for triceps, and building essential shoulder stability, warding off common shoulder injuries.
Resistive bands could be used for triceps too, ( and for rotator cuff exercise... Shoulder stability again).

Don't hang fully extended on your shoulders doing pullups (injury potential)

This Robbie Philips series is helpful too... https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7969

In reply to stp:

Perhaps not, if the arm is bent in the chicken wing position the triceps would be firing to oppose and stabilise the bicep, brachialis and brachioradialis. The chicken wing is the body's way of shortening the lever to reduce the strain, the root cause may likely be at either the finger or shoulder end. The bicep muscles as far as I understand from an evolutionary perspective is an endurance muscle, it's designed for hauling back a kill or for carrying kids so would perhaps expect other muscles to give up first.

Interesting, never heard of tricep pump whilst climbing steep stuff before, could be the first roof mantle?

In reply to stp:

What's greasing the Groove method...... It's on ere?.... Gorra link please?

In reply to EmSB:

Sounds like a curious problem though Alx suggestion of chicken winging sounds plausible. Hard to say for certain though without seeing you climbing. The triceps extend (straighten) the arm or hold it statically in such a position so maybe you can figure where and which moves you must be doing that.

In reply to Rock to Fakey:

Some stuff below. The guy behind it, Pavel Tsatsouline, seems well regarded elsewhere. His ideas are based on Russian research - he is a Russian now living in the US I believe. He has written a number books too you can find on Amazon. He's also the person that popularized the use of kettlebells in training too a number of years ago.

Not tried any of it myself as I've only been reading about it for the past few days. Did make wonder though if it's related to the reason some top climbers now train several times a day. I know Alex Megos was training 2 or 3 times per day whilst over here recently. And Shauna Coxey also said she trains twice day on four days per week (out of a total of six training days).

youtube.com/watch?v=JmOEgK5o2yg&

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2016/01/20/get-stronger-by-greasing-the-groov...

https://humanmachine.wordpress.com/2007/06/22/grease-the-groove-for-strengt...

http://cbass.com/Synaptic.htm

Also see: cbass.com/Pavel'sLadders.htm

In reply to EmSB:

You say about straight arms but is this in its natural state i.e relaxed, or are you "pushing" or locking your arms straight? This could be why your triceps are activating and causing them to pump out? Don't know if this helps, but sometimes I find if I have a "rule" I follow this to it's logical extreme to the detriment of natural body awareness. Might be worth getting a coach with a physio background to watch you and suggest improvements? But they will no doubt mention shoulder stability and get you on those theraband exersises if you don't already do them...

In reply to Rock to Fakey:

It's basically neurological adaptation like learning to play a musical instrument, you do a bit each day, every day and this becomes the 'new normal' after a while. Works well for compound movements where lots of joints need to bend in a certain order at a certain time to be mechanically efficient.

Leah Crane used to do this every day for one arm pull ups from what I remember....

Pavels books are quite good, I have his stretching book which is hilarious!