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Beta Climbing Designs have long been known for by sport climbers for their famous clipstick; now the Project Brush Stick marks their entry into the world of bouldering. UKC's Rob Greenwood takes a look at how it performs.Read more
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In reply to UKC Gear:
I like the way you've preempted the inevitable forum comments pointing out that you just reviewed a brush on a stick.
I'm still going to point it out, though. It's a brush on a stick.
I like the way you've preempted the inevitable forum comments pointing out that you just reviewed a brush on a stick.
I'm still going to point it out, though. It's a brush on a stick.
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In reply to UKC Gear:
I can see that £39 could be a fair price but surely not when the telescoping mechanism fails half the time and one of the angles the brush is supposed to sit at is finicky too?!
For a basically pretty simple product, those seem like quite major failings. Strange not to mention them in your summary.
I can see that £39 could be a fair price but surely not when the telescoping mechanism fails half the time and one of the angles the brush is supposed to sit at is finicky too?!
For a basically pretty simple product, those seem like quite major failings. Strange not to mention them in your summary.
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In reply to planetmarshall:
I figured it was inevitable, so may as well embrace it
Besides, there's no fighting it really really because you're quite right - we are fundamentally dealing with a brush on a stick (albeit quite a techy stick).
The world continues to rotate of its axis etc...
I figured it was inevitable, so may as well embrace it
Besides, there's no fighting it really really because you're quite right - we are fundamentally dealing with a brush on a stick (albeit quite a techy stick).
The world continues to rotate of its axis etc...
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In reply to UKC Gear:
Nobody is ever going to make money off of a brush stick like this. Everyone knows they can buy a £5 telescopic pole and tape a brush to it. Being able to take the brush on and off of the stick easily won't make it much more appealing because even if you permanently leave a brush on a telescopic pole, it's still cost a tenner.
Some sort of replaceable head that screws onto a standard telescopic pole is the only thing I could see being marketable.
Nobody is ever going to make money off of a brush stick like this. Everyone knows they can buy a £5 telescopic pole and tape a brush to it. Being able to take the brush on and off of the stick easily won't make it much more appealing because even if you permanently leave a brush on a telescopic pole, it's still cost a tenner.
Some sort of replaceable head that screws onto a standard telescopic pole is the only thing I could see being marketable.
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In reply to cha1n:
This is an interesting line of argument and one I thought a lot about whilst writing the review (hence the many references to my own homemade wooden stick). I bet people said the same thing about brushes a few years back though: why buy a £6-12 climbing specific brush when you could simply use an old toothbrush?
Answer: because people - rightly or wrongly - want to buy something specific, 'off the peg', and ready to go. When you go out climbing, be that at the wall or crag, you see very few people using old toothbrushes, despite the fact that they are fundamentally very similar. Not only do you see these people with one brush, but maybe two or three different brushes. This may not be you, but that isn't to say it isn't happening and won't happen with the Project Brush Stick.
All that said, I actually agree with your initial sentiment. I don't think Beta Climbing Designs - who are a small Sheffield based company - have any illusions of retiring off the proceeds of this product...
This is an interesting line of argument and one I thought a lot about whilst writing the review (hence the many references to my own homemade wooden stick). I bet people said the same thing about brushes a few years back though: why buy a £6-12 climbing specific brush when you could simply use an old toothbrush?
Answer: because people - rightly or wrongly - want to buy something specific, 'off the peg', and ready to go. When you go out climbing, be that at the wall or crag, you see very few people using old toothbrushes, despite the fact that they are fundamentally very similar. Not only do you see these people with one brush, but maybe two or three different brushes. This may not be you, but that isn't to say it isn't happening and won't happen with the Project Brush Stick.
All that said, I actually agree with your initial sentiment. I don't think Beta Climbing Designs - who are a small Sheffield based company - have any illusions of retiring off the proceeds of this product...
Post edited at 11:55
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In reply to UKC Gear:
It's more frustrating that all this effort has gone into putting this onto the shelves and it seems like a missed opportunity to get something really good out there.
It's like their clip sticks. It's a good idea and I use mine a lot if I'm sport climbing but it's got a fair few flaws. The telescopic pole is prone to jamming, the plastic grips for unscrewing the pole regularly come unglued, there's no proper system for attaching to your harness (does anyone actually use the plastic clip for this? The first and only time I did I dropped it and nearly took out someone below me), the metal clips for keeping the gate open on the carabiner doesn't work with a petzl spirit unless you put some finger tape around them. If you use the stick with a M16 brush (or whatever it's called) like they indicate you can, it just unscrews the smallest telescopic arm and makes brushing near impossible.
All that aside, it's the best thing available but if a new company comes along and puts some actual thought into designing a new one it I think they'd lose their market pretty quickly.
*** EDIT *** Having used these at the climbing works and they seem to be in use in most world cup comps, I'd much rather have one of these; http://www.dewoodstok.nl/order/ (no affiliation obviously, just a happy user).
It's more frustrating that all this effort has gone into putting this onto the shelves and it seems like a missed opportunity to get something really good out there.
It's like their clip sticks. It's a good idea and I use mine a lot if I'm sport climbing but it's got a fair few flaws. The telescopic pole is prone to jamming, the plastic grips for unscrewing the pole regularly come unglued, there's no proper system for attaching to your harness (does anyone actually use the plastic clip for this? The first and only time I did I dropped it and nearly took out someone below me), the metal clips for keeping the gate open on the carabiner doesn't work with a petzl spirit unless you put some finger tape around them. If you use the stick with a M16 brush (or whatever it's called) like they indicate you can, it just unscrews the smallest telescopic arm and makes brushing near impossible.
All that aside, it's the best thing available but if a new company comes along and puts some actual thought into designing a new one it I think they'd lose their market pretty quickly.
*** EDIT *** Having used these at the climbing works and they seem to be in use in most world cup comps, I'd much rather have one of these; http://www.dewoodstok.nl/order/ (no affiliation obviously, just a happy user).
Post edited at 12:25
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In reply to UKC Gear:
This looks like an absolute must for all the geardos with the brand new, barely used kit to rock up to the boulders with....geardos love gucci kit and this looks like it fits the bill and will go great with their collection of different sized, climbing specific brushes.
This looks like an absolute must for all the geardos with the brand new, barely used kit to rock up to the boulders with....geardos love gucci kit and this looks like it fits the bill and will go great with their collection of different sized, climbing specific brushes.
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In reply to BernieMac:
I think that's a pretty sweeping generalisation...
To date my experiences of this are completely the opposite too, as it's been the die-hard boulderers I've seen out/about with them. In fact, when I was over at Porth Talfarach the other week we had three of them between us (although I'm not sure whether I should actually admit to that, it was a big group - thus completely justified - I promise!!).
postscript: it was clearly in no way, shape, or form justified...
I think that's a pretty sweeping generalisation...
To date my experiences of this are completely the opposite too, as it's been the die-hard boulderers I've seen out/about with them. In fact, when I was over at Porth Talfarach the other week we had three of them between us (although I'm not sure whether I should actually admit to that, it was a big group - thus completely justified - I promise!!).
postscript: it was clearly in no way, shape, or form justified...
Post edited at 13:48
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In reply to cha1n:
Mine came with some cord around it that is perfect for attaching a snap gate to. Works well for all sport climbing I've done.
I've heard a lot of people say this but never experienced this myself. I've only ever used spirits with it too. Just give the clip a little squeeze at the base so it's slightly tighter before using it, et voila.
In general I agree that it's just a brush on a stick, but at the same time there will be people that buy it and therefore there's a market for it. It just depends what money you have spare I suppose.
> there's no proper system for attaching to your harness (does anyone actually use the plastic clip for this? The first and only time I did I dropped it and nearly took out someone below me)
Mine came with some cord around it that is perfect for attaching a snap gate to. Works well for all sport climbing I've done.
> the metal clips for keeping the gate open on the carabiner doesn't work with a petzl spirit unless you put some finger tape around them.
I've heard a lot of people say this but never experienced this myself. I've only ever used spirits with it too. Just give the clip a little squeeze at the base so it's slightly tighter before using it, et voila.
In general I agree that it's just a brush on a stick, but at the same time there will be people that buy it and therefore there's a market for it. It just depends what money you have spare I suppose.
In reply to James Malloch:
>Mine came with some cord around it that is perfect for attaching a snap gate to. Works well for all sport climbing I've done.
The chord with the push toggle on? I've had the toggle come off and the chord come undone and the plastic handle has also come off completely and the chord then slid off. Now I've sacked the toggle off, it's how I attach my stick to my harness too but I don't have much faith in it.
>I've heard a lot of people say this but never experienced this myself. I've only ever used spirits with it too. Just give the clip a little squeeze at the base so it's slightly tighter before using it, et voila.
The obvious thing to try but it's more of a friction/size mismatch issue. The tape is the only thing that's resolved the issue for me. Perhaps the older spirits have stronger springs in the gate.
>In general I agree that it's just a brush on a stick, but at the same time there will be people that buy it and therefore there's a market for it. It just depends what money you have spare I suppose.
I seem to remember that this isn't their first crack at a brush stick. I recall seeing something behind the counter at a wall many, many years ago which had the same colour scheme, though correct me if I'm wrong. It was crap, nobody used it. I've seen people using the brush stick feature of the clip stick one or two times in the 7 years I've been climbing and they weren't very successful with it. This thing certainly looks flimsy and I guess they're trying to use parts that also use in the clip sticks as that would make sense. They're barely up to their function of clipping bolts, let alone pushing hard with a brush. If this thing takes off I'll make a promo video for it myself in the nude.
>Mine came with some cord around it that is perfect for attaching a snap gate to. Works well for all sport climbing I've done.
The chord with the push toggle on? I've had the toggle come off and the chord come undone and the plastic handle has also come off completely and the chord then slid off. Now I've sacked the toggle off, it's how I attach my stick to my harness too but I don't have much faith in it.
>I've heard a lot of people say this but never experienced this myself. I've only ever used spirits with it too. Just give the clip a little squeeze at the base so it's slightly tighter before using it, et voila.
The obvious thing to try but it's more of a friction/size mismatch issue. The tape is the only thing that's resolved the issue for me. Perhaps the older spirits have stronger springs in the gate.
>In general I agree that it's just a brush on a stick, but at the same time there will be people that buy it and therefore there's a market for it. It just depends what money you have spare I suppose.
I seem to remember that this isn't their first crack at a brush stick. I recall seeing something behind the counter at a wall many, many years ago which had the same colour scheme, though correct me if I'm wrong. It was crap, nobody used it. I've seen people using the brush stick feature of the clip stick one or two times in the 7 years I've been climbing and they weren't very successful with it. This thing certainly looks flimsy and I guess they're trying to use parts that also use in the clip sticks as that would make sense. They're barely up to their function of clipping bolts, let alone pushing hard with a brush. If this thing takes off I'll make a promo video for it myself in the nude.
Post edited at 14:21
In reply to cha1n:
Yeah that's the one - mine had what seemed a pretty secure knot in it and has lasted many trips over the last 4 years so has never been an issue. Though I can see why there wouldn't be much confidence if yours came off!
Maybe I've been lucky!
That's my main thought about it (though I've not actually looked at one). Given I just keep pads in the car I'm going to get a big industrial thing as I don't need to worry about it being small etc. If it looked like it would last a bit longer (and it may well do) I'd go for one of these for convenience though.
> The chord with the push toggle on? I've had the toggle come off and the chord come undone and the plastic handle has also come off completely and the chord then slid off. Now I've sacked the toggle off, it's how I attach my stick to my harness too but I don't have much faith in it.
Yeah that's the one - mine had what seemed a pretty secure knot in it and has lasted many trips over the last 4 years so has never been an issue. Though I can see why there wouldn't be much confidence if yours came off!
> The obvious thing to try but it's more of a friction/size mismatch issue. The tape is the only thing that's resolved the issue for me. Perhaps the older spirits have stronger springs in the gate.
Maybe I've been lucky!
> This thing certainly looks flimsy and I guess they're trying to use parts that also use in the clip sticks as that would make sense. They're barely up to their function of clipping bolts, let alone pushing hard with a brush. If this thing takes off I'll make a promo video for it myself in the nude.
That's my main thought about it (though I've not actually looked at one). Given I just keep pads in the car I'm going to get a big industrial thing as I don't need to worry about it being small etc. If it looked like it would last a bit longer (and it may well do) I'd go for one of these for convenience though.
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In reply to UKC Gear:
The dewoodstok brush http://www.dewoodstok.nl/order/ looks better made and with a large, bike lever type action instead of that tiny wheel for tightening it up.
It would have been good if the review had compared these together.
The dewoodstok brush http://www.dewoodstok.nl/order/ looks better made and with a large, bike lever type action instead of that tiny wheel for tightening it up.
It would have been good if the review had compared these together.
Post edited at 16:08
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
I have a clip stick and it sounds like I need this one too, being really short and all. I also have another stick for crag combat, namely fending off chavs and dogs at shipley glen, and whilst not being climbing specific does have a DMM sticker on it to make me look cool. So it is a climbing stick if you ask me.
Do love a good stick me. What next? perhaps: Adidas - TerraStick Gen II - £199.99 - the Olympic Model.
I have a clip stick and it sounds like I need this one too, being really short and all. I also have another stick for crag combat, namely fending off chavs and dogs at shipley glen, and whilst not being climbing specific does have a DMM sticker on it to make me look cool. So it is a climbing stick if you ask me.
Do love a good stick me. What next? perhaps: Adidas - TerraStick Gen II - £199.99 - the Olympic Model.
In reply to UKC Gear:
This was my solution: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2126549
This somehow seems like the perfect time to share it with the world...
I see no sense in carrying a stick around a forest. Cost me 15p plus the (found) brush. And mine says "Metolius" on it. Have that.
This was my solution: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2126549
This somehow seems like the perfect time to share it with the world...
I see no sense in carrying a stick around a forest. Cost me 15p plus the (found) brush. And mine says "Metolius" on it. Have that.
Post edited at 18:02
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:
Two things about that. One, 90% of bouldering isn't in forests. Two, your solution looks a bit crap, it can turn, slide or ping off. Slightly less good than just taping the brush in place as far as I can see...
Two things about that. One, 90% of bouldering isn't in forests. Two, your solution looks a bit crap, it can turn, slide or ping off. Slightly less good than just taping the brush in place as far as I can see...
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In reply to Lemony:
I wasn't really looking for notes, but since you mention it:
i) 99% of mine is in Font
ii) It doesn't
I wasn't really looking for notes, but since you mention it:
i) 99% of mine is in Font
ii) It doesn't
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In reply to UKC Gear:
I think there is definitely a market for this (all sorts of home made contraptions are out there and extremely useful for some problems) but £40 is too expensive.
The de Woodstock looks much better. I'd buy it if it was £20.
I agree with all of Chain's comments about beta sticks in general. From the experience I've had with all my climbing partners' sticks I think their quality assurance is so poor that I've refused on principle to buy one myself at the price they charge. I've been waiting for a competitor to come along for 5 years but unfortunately none has.
I think there is definitely a market for this (all sorts of home made contraptions are out there and extremely useful for some problems) but £40 is too expensive.
The de Woodstock looks much better. I'd buy it if it was £20.
I agree with all of Chain's comments about beta sticks in general. From the experience I've had with all my climbing partners' sticks I think their quality assurance is so poor that I've refused on principle to buy one myself at the price they charge. I've been waiting for a competitor to come along for 5 years but unfortunately none has.
In reply to Op:
I have no idea how much I payed for my clip stick , £35ish ? I think it's a great bit of kit for the money , which seems like a reasonable amount for what it is. I'm sure some-bright spark will find cheaper but I just had a quick look and couldn't find a telescopic aluminium pole for less than £20. So add on the clever bit at the end for £15. I use it almost every time I go sport climbing and think the buisness end is well designed and With BD wire gates it works almost every time . The two evenings and one afternoon a week I get to go climbing I want as little faf and as much climbing as possible and it often helps. I'm sure it's possible with lots of practice to use finger tape and a long twig to achieve the same but my many many attempts resulted in mostly failure or all sorts of comedy, often not that funny when it's getting dark . It does however rely on a long stick being conveniently to hand . If I ever get back in to bouldering a lot , unlikely but possible, i will buy one of these . All the long sticks at st bees got used up a "few" years ago.
Heaven forbid that beta designs should design, manufacture and market something that some people find usefull and make a bit of profit. How very dare they.
I have no idea how much I payed for my clip stick , £35ish ? I think it's a great bit of kit for the money , which seems like a reasonable amount for what it is. I'm sure some-bright spark will find cheaper but I just had a quick look and couldn't find a telescopic aluminium pole for less than £20. So add on the clever bit at the end for £15. I use it almost every time I go sport climbing and think the buisness end is well designed and With BD wire gates it works almost every time . The two evenings and one afternoon a week I get to go climbing I want as little faf and as much climbing as possible and it often helps. I'm sure it's possible with lots of practice to use finger tape and a long twig to achieve the same but my many many attempts resulted in mostly failure or all sorts of comedy, often not that funny when it's getting dark . It does however rely on a long stick being conveniently to hand . If I ever get back in to bouldering a lot , unlikely but possible, i will buy one of these . All the long sticks at st bees got used up a "few" years ago.
Heaven forbid that beta designs should design, manufacture and market something that some people find usefull and make a bit of profit. How very dare they.
Post edited at 07:40
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In reply to mike123:
I'm out in Mallorca with the tech (fishing rod type) and small beta sticks, and have already been v useful where first bolt hangers are missing. Been using them for years, In hand luggage on trips to Spain. Got an XL at home for if we're traveling in the car to the Crags.
Never had a single issue with them since they came out.
S'Cape in Font sell an extending bouldering brush stick for 29 euros, doesn't have rotating joint and consequently is pretty robust. As I get older, they double up as a walking pole to the crag which is nice.
I'm out in Mallorca with the tech (fishing rod type) and small beta sticks, and have already been v useful where first bolt hangers are missing. Been using them for years, In hand luggage on trips to Spain. Got an XL at home for if we're traveling in the car to the Crags.
Never had a single issue with them since they came out.
S'Cape in Font sell an extending bouldering brush stick for 29 euros, doesn't have rotating joint and consequently is pretty robust. As I get older, they double up as a walking pole to the crag which is nice.
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In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
Well done for keeping your face straight, even as your pole flexed.
In reply to cha1n:
Agree about the clipstick. I'd happily pay beta's price if it worked consistently well but it doesn't and I haven't.
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