UKC

When I was new to climbing, Font 7A was a grade that I looked up to and thought 'one day.' It was a grade that heroes climbed and I'd only ever met a handful of people that had reached the mythical level. Once I had reached that level myself, I was chuffed and reflected that actually, it's a very achievable aim for people with some dedication and motivation. 

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In reply to UKC Articles:

Is Dog Eat Dog 7a?

Anyhow, surely the right answer is to look around for one of the many, many soft touches.

In reply to UKC Articles:

I remember distinctly the day that the picture of Ben on Narcissus was taken - the group had been trying the problem for a while, I'd rocked up and taken advantage of their impressive stack of pads to despatch Oedipus and had one failed attempt on Narcissus.

Ben rocked up with a hangover and proceeded to flash the problem with disgusting ease.

Needless to say, we all sent within the next couple of attempts.

In reply to Lemony:


I hope so, because then it means I've already climbed 7A and have no need to read the article!

In reply to UKC Articles:

I set myself the target of climbing two F7A problems over a year ago and I don't think it is possible that everyone can climb a genuine F7A (*1)

I've been putting a lot of effort in and it's tough for me.

I have to work really hard to get some of the F6A, F6A+, F6B and a few F6C problems - many taking many sessions, in optimal conditions. An example would be Fork Lightning Crack F6B at Caley - that took me about 120 attempts. Forked Lightning Crack (f6B)

Admittedly, I'm older than many climbers, I don't bend like I used to but there are plenty of climbers and I could eat less pies If I'd have been trying this when I was 20 years old, it would have been easy.

(*1) Getting a soft or overgraded problem doesn't count in my mind. Nor does starting on the wrong holds, using stuff that's not in etc. It has to be genuine, so known problems at high traffic areas make sense to me (Stanange, Caley, Almscliff)

In reply to MischaHY:

Which goes to show that a key point missed by the article is to climb with people who can already climb grade x y or z and learn from their movement, tactics and the like.

In reply to afx22:

Do you have the chance to climb with people who can already do 7a or harder?

In reply to Robert Durran:


Hmm... I've climbed 7B but still feel I need all the help I can get. These days I'll grab every last piece of insight or advice I can lay my grubby little mitts on.

Mick

In reply to afx22:

I managed to climb Font 7a nearly a year ago (Lost Decade, Cuttings Boulderfield, Portland), after about 5 years of pushing my grade up from about Font 6a.

I don't think the problem was "soft", but it did really suit my style and body shape. The problem itself took me about 4 hours over 3 sessions. I've done quite a few 6c's, but the 7a had to be perfect for me. I tried to make sure it was a well known problem with an established grade, what I termed a "monument".

For the record I am 48, 6ft, 85Kg. I am climbing about 4 times a week and have been climbing for over 15 years now, but it has been hard work to increase my body strength and get my weight down a bit (I used to be over 95Kg!). I think most people could get to Font 7a, but it is a real achievement and takes lots of work and time. It is certainly worth reading Dave Macleods "9 out of 10" if you haven't already, and really thinking about what you need to do to get better. All I can say is that every breakthrough grade has been an amazing feeling, and makes all the effort worthwhile. For the record these were Marie Rose (6a), Arachnee (6b) and Duel dans la Lune (6c), all in Font.

I am working on Nicotene Alley (Font 7a, Bowles rocks), and have now done it in two halves, so I think it will go this summer with enough work .

Good luck with your 7As!

Robert

In reply to RobertHepburn:


This. 95% of people (hell, probably 99.9%) have the potential to climb 7A given modern day boots and the security of good pads. You just have to put the commitment in. This may be different levels for different people - some may be lucky enough to reach this level without much effort, some may need to do a lot of intelligent, regular training and micro-manage other aspects of their life (primarily diet).

In reply to UKC Articles:

I think if you're going to make a target out of x grade then it's a really good idea to pick a few really good problems of that grade and make your target climbing one of those.

For one thing it stops you ending up on some rubbish overgraded problem that you don't like but want to tick because it's 6, 7 or 8a or whatever.

It also makes for a much more satisfying achievement because you know you you've got a quality tick at the grade rather than just scraped past it.

In reply to RobertHepburn:

.I am working on Nicotine Alley (Font 7A, Bowles rocks), and have now done it in two halves, so I think it will go this summer with enough work



Hey, this is my project at the moment and will be my first 7A. It's no soft touch and I've had about 4 sessions on it. I reckon it could go next trip. I fell from the gaston move last time so looking good!

In reply to MischaHY:

Is this what the youth of today would describe as a 'humble brag'?

In reply to UKC Articles:

You missed out establish your own '7A' on a feature soon to fall down
jk

In reply to galpinos:
Narcissus is also what I would describe as the world's worst choice for your first Font 7a

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Agreed, given that a certain kipper-handed chatty man managed to miss all 17 pads that day and hurt his back. He definitely didn't send the problem that day!

In reply to UKC Articles:

So then, what are people's suggestions for the world's softest 7s then?

I'd start with Slapper at Shaftoe* - Probably 6B - and Swastika Eyes (7B?!) at Swastika Stones - probably 6B.


*My first 7A, I'm still taking it

In reply to galpinos:


You're right, too much humility. It was piss and we all cruised it in between cake breaks.

Font 7a over a pile of pads is nothing to brag about. Tbh I wish I'd saved it until I could do it properly.

In reply to Lemony:

I was trying to kid myself into believing that I was on fire the day I did that...

Saying that, I did start to suspect something when I failed on the 6B just to the left (the one off the undercuts) which seemed around 12 grades harder. Still, it was nice to feel on form for five seconds - even if it did involve lying to myself.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I think The Long Reach stand start is ok at 6A if you allow yourself a bit of a bounce. I think going 5 yards the other way to the scrittly, slopey, technical 6A arete with a comically terrifying top out is an even more damning comparison.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Not getting out to boulder. How much does an indoor 7a count?

In reply to RobertHepburn:

<<I am working on Nicotene Alley (Font 7a, Bowles rocks), and have now done it in two halves, so I think it will go this summer with enough work . Good luck with your 7As!Robert

Hi Robert, I'm in a similar position, similar desire, aged 48. Probably see you at Bowles this year. Best of luck mate.

In reply to Lemony:

Nowhere near. Hard 6C, maybe soft 6C+ if one has no technique. Nice problem though.


Definitely the wrong answer, as is any form of grade chasing for the grade alone (although your point does usefully demonstrate the futility of aiming for the number).

If you want to climb 7A (or whatever grade), just look for climbs around that standard that really personally inspire you for the quality, beauty, challenge, etc, and work towards them. If you try to aim just for the number it's going to be a lot harder, a lot less likely to be successful, and not nearly as an enjoyable process even if you do "tick" that number.

In reply to afx22:

Good work mate but you know your own solution. I'm 50 next year and unfortunately (very fortunately actually) didn't find climbing until I was 42. If you're older, then you have to make sacrifices, i.e. pies are a once in a blue moon treat and conditioning the body is paramount, every bit as much as climbing itself.

Example: Today, I woke at 6.30am, got into town where my contract is and did a reasonably intense day (mentally at least but sat on my arse which as you know isn't great). I got home around 7pm, got changed and did an hour TRX session, then made a quality meal from scratch to help maximise my efforts and recover. I'm just sitting down with a drink for the first time today at 9pm and will hit the hay in an hour or so. Point? You have to sacrifice and that leaves no room for excuses. You either want it bad enough or you don't. Every day is similar, whether it's fingerboarding or other types of training to develop various types of static and dynamic strength or balance and mobility, getting to the wall or outdoors at the weekend or week if you're not cursed by living in the south east (which makes it harder still! (welcome to disagree, but we ain't got much rock and what we have is rarely in condition until spring).

On top of that, us older guys don't recover like teens, 20's and 30 somethings. You have to research to understand how you can get yourself through it all safely and in one piece. Touch wood, my research has ensured I'm injury free so far.

Observe protein synthesis. 20g of protein every 3 hours. No old school 3 square meals a day.

I do benefit from not having family to consider and respect that weighs heavily for most but you still have windows and opportunity to maximise your situation. I think it's about being honest with yourself. How badly do you want it? The whole journey and not just a 7A, 7B or 7C tick. My goal? To be an 8A boulderer by the time I'm 55. I'll damn well do it or shit a gasket trying. Best of luck making your decision.

Ps. The journey is easy if you want to be on it. And yes, my efforts are translating to climbing performance..... so far (said quietly

In reply to Flinticus:


Full value if it's on a moonboard

In reply to LakesWinter:

I sometimes do get to climb with others, who are better than me but not many that can hit F7A. Most of the time I'm out on my own which means I have to work it all out myself. That's both good and bad.

In reply to afx22:

Agreed, checking out videos of similar problems can prove useful. I think Mick said above, use whatever you can get your hands on.

In reply to Fishmate:

You put me to shame

I'm 46 and have been indoor bouldering indoors for 8 years - less than 2 years outdoors. I climb as much as I can but find I get all sorts of injuries if I do more than 3 times a week. I have a reasonable catalogue of injuries, due to many years of downhill mountain biking, bmx and snowboarding. Some days I have to do yoga just to get my socks on in a morning

In reply to Lemony:

Papa Lazarou at Buckstones near Huddersfield is F7A on UKC, Yorkshire Gritstone Vol.I and Kirklees Climbing.

It's possibly 6B'ish.

In reply to afx22:

Fair do's fella, they are some demanding disciplines I cycle raced to an elite level and broke my spine in a race crash in my early twenties. As such, part of the craft is piecing together all that glut of information that we are all told we should do and find the bits that work for you. What will work your weaknesses? How often whilst allowing for good recovery whilst making healthy gains. It's a massive learning curve and the more I learn, the more I realise how much more I can learn to better my chances.

I'm becoming an expert only in Fishmate but if I can offer you any thoughts pm me any time. Happy to learn alongside anyone willing to try hard. Whilst we have to do the same type stuff as Matt Cousins and Shauna Coxsey we have to do it differently at our ages. Lots of TLC required

What's the hardest grade you've given for putting socks on? sounds rough!

In reply to afx22:


Actually it's in Yorkshire Gritstone Vol 2 and graded 6B.

In reply to Fishmate:
An elite level roadie - nice. I used to know a few of those. Broken spine - ouch.

The thing about training is that it seems to be mainly about strength. I usually feel pretty strong so it feels like the last thing I need to work on. Because I climb mainly on grit, footwork (technique) and body position (flexibility) is where I think I have the greatest opportunity for improvement.

Bravery / confidence is a factor too but I think I do ok on that.

In reply to webbo:

You're right. I stand corrected. It's definitely still wrong on UKC.

In reply to Fishmate and afx22:

Aw, bromance

In reply to Fishmate:


Good luck wit´h that. I've climbed 7A's relatively easily in my 30's and 40's and ones I'm familar with I can still knock off routinely now in my 50's, but it gets harder as the years pass. I've done a handful of 7B's with a real struggle but now see 7C slipping out of my grasp. I think the sheer power needed once you start to get above 7A, which is where bouldering starts to get hard, makes it very tough for those not in their youth, or born strong. I've had a 7C project for 15 years or so with 1000's of attempts... still hoping.

In reply to afx22:
Your strength and head game sounds good and you are doing yoga, you acknowledge movement is a weakness.

The best non climbing kit I've bought is a TRX. A massive weakness men have compared to women is hip mobility. I've worked hips for a year or so now and it has made a massive difference. To the point, I'm doing moves with ease that hard crushers half my age struggle on.

Side Lunge, Hip Pinge even regular non weighted squats etc are simple but powerful exercises you can do without equipment. Look them up. I'd say 10 mins every other day could benefit you. Start slow and the results will show. I don't think it's just strength that gets you ahead.

I'm in awe at how quickly youngsters progress. It's like they go straight up and punch 7A in the teeth. We need to sneak around the back and kick it's arse

In reply to Dave:

Maybe it's time UKC had a section for old farts to trade knowledge. Our dreams are no less worthy than anyone else's.

With the wealth of experience and knowledge some of the older boys have (looking at Mick Ward etc) we could all help each other get closer to those goals?

It might also help prevent good climbers from slacking off in later years or inspire the bumblers due to a lack of understanding of their changing requirements. Just a thought

In reply to Dave:

Dave, the problem isn't per se the grade... it's the rock. Our local granite is just darn tricky (and painful).

Out of curiosity, which 7C it is? Something in Luolavuori?

Oh, and have you been to Valkeavuori? E.g. Taikasormi (7C+) and Lucifer (also 7C+) seem completely doable, if a bit core intense and sharp. Last (and only) time I was there, I also eyed up Nokipolvi (8A) which seemed pretty darn hard, but so did the neighboring line of Noitapiiri (7B).

In reply to Dave:

Sounds impressive to me. Are you training in any sense or just relying on experience?

In reply to Fishmate:


Bad idea. I strongly believe that once you start making allowances for age, it is effectively giving in to it and you're on a slippery slope to mediocrity - I've seen it happen to too many people. If I fail on something it's because I'm too weak, unfit or didn't try hard enough, not because I'm in my fifties. I treat younger people as my equals and expect to be treated as their equal - that way I will continue to think young and, hopefully, climb young.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Thanks for your thoughts Robert. Unfortunately you've clearly failed to read the message. A 50 year old has a different set of rules to observe than a 20 year old. I am not making excuses I'm creating reasons to succeed. Dig deep fella and you'll see that.

If you've taken the time to educate yourself in physiology and nutrition you would understand this. As such you've ignorantly compared apples with oranges. A punter mistake

Many people my age don't understand the requirements of reasonably high level performance so I stand by my suggestion that a section for old boys and girls is highly relevant.

All the best

In reply to Fishmate:

Not sure what a TRX is but I'll look that up. Thanks for the heads up.

In reply to Fishmate:

I climbed my first font 7a at age 42 after years of bumbly trad climbing. Done a couple more since, but definitely in a rut and have picked up bad habits. I like beer and like training if it involves climbing - anything else is a hard sell. Knowing some specific exercises or regimes that are known to be particularly useful for the older climber would be more likely to attract my attention - most of my friends are much better and younger than me and I simply can't train the same way as them. So Mr Randall if you're listening, there is a market for us old gits, you could call it the Old Grey Lattice Test or something.

In reply to afx22:

It's a suspension training device where you initially use your own bodyweight to exercise but can add a weight vest etc as you progress. It's safer and kinder to your body and not a soulless experience that I find gyms to be. It doesn't have to be TRX (other brands exist).

In reply to Fishmate:

Feel free to observe any self-imposed rules you like

In reply to UKC Articles:

The softest-touch 7A must be Trackside at Curbar, because I've done it, and I'm rubbish (but tall).

In reply to Robert Durran:

Do you believe that science and human experience is wrong when it observes our ability to recover declines with age?

I impose no rules. I'm creating possibility Robert. Now on a positive note, what can you contribute?

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

Funnily enough, I've done many font 7As (mostly limestone, not that many on grit actually) but couldn't do Trackside. Admitelly I only spent about 20 minutes on it, but seemed akward and I was missing something in the movement.

Strawberries nextdoor was a bit frustrating first time round, but then actually proved my highlight of the day! :p

In reply to Fishmate:


My post at 9.19. Continue thinking young, don't give in to age, and refuse to make an age an excuse.

Yes, I know physiology changes with age (I sometimes feel the effects myself), but I'm not going to let it affect my dreams and attitude.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Basically, you are agreeing with me then?

I'm observing reality and taking steps to offset that through an educated approach.

See my post at 7.00am. I acknowledge the inferiority of the male hip configuration compared to womens. I took action and outperform many younger climbers as a result. I refuse to accept boundaries should prevent progression. Instead, I accept they exist and seek to change them. Hope that makes sense.

In reply to Fishmate & Roberto Duran:

Let's get you two in the ring together.

In reply to zmv:

Trackside is piss compared to Strawberries

Beta alert:





There is a definite trick to trackside. When you rock up on that left heel go much further left than you think you should. Get your bum to be pretty much touching your heel, then push a bit further so that your knee drops.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Interesting! Thanks for the beta. I will try it out next time I'm at Curbar.

In reply to danm:

Hi Dan, nicely stirred down below

Good going on the 7's you've ticked. What issues do you find with training? I can do a couple of sessions a day but not consistently like the young 8a crushers at my wall. But in terms of conditioning I find no difference, it's just taken longer to get there. I.e. planching, front levers etc.

That said a first class core isn't a first class climbers core but it helps. Being patient and taking baby steps has helped.

In reply to afx22:


A bit of tat suspended from the ceiling with a loop to put your extremities through, given a fancy name and a website and sold for a small fortune.

Ever see the episode of Red Dwarf with the 'tension sheet'? - basically a sheet of bubble wrap, painted red with 'Tension Sheet' printed on it which made its fictional inventor a millionaire. It's basically like that.

In reply to Fishmate:


No, you're agreeing with me

In reply to planetmarshall:

That's another way of looking at it

Like I said other versions available. Probably start at £30. There, that was more useful for our man.

In reply to Fishmate:

I find I'm OK with a regime of bouldering one day, followed by the next day doing fingerboard repeaters and power-endurance on the circuit board, then a rest day. Anything above this and I get tired and injured. I find gym work really boring, managed to stick with yoga for a year and found it very good for my climbing, but basically, anything other than climbing I struggle doing motivation wise. Finger strength is a major weakness but if I do too much strength work on them I suffer, as I'm a bit arthritic in some of my finger joints.

In reply to ChrisBrooke:


love it!
done loads of 7As and I can't do it!

In reply to Fiend:
7A is a funny grade to pin down. Dog Eat Dog and Slapper are both easy for 7A if you get into the right body position but can feel impossible if you are slightly out. On both problems i either leave the crag frustrated or repeat the problem with ease. If the consensus of the majority is 7A then the grade is 7A.

IMO 7A is the grade where movement, timing and strength start to come into play . Up to that grade it is possible to get by.

The Wickerman at Shafto, hardest 6B in the north?

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

I've not been anywhere near getting Trackside. I can't get the left foot up at all. A regular excuse that I pull from 'big list of lame excuses' is the scar tissue in my left hip means I struggle to get the left foot high and close in to my body.

Strawberries is one that eludes me but I know I'll get that. It's a high'ish left foot near the start so I need to catch it on a good day. The last two trips out there, specifically to do Strawberries and it's rained as I arrived, despite a dry forecast. It's a hour and twenty minutes each way

In reply to afx22:

Oh well, maybe it's just me then. I'm 6'1" and have very flexible hips, so I don't find it too desperate Did it second go last time I tried. It's in my list of "I can do it, so it can't be hard" things. Funnily enough, I can't get off the ground on Strawberries! I think you need finger strength for that one...not for me then.

In reply to danm:

I have to admit, I did find anything that didn't directly address climbing progression that involved an aspect of climbing did deter me for some time, but I had to concede to the importance of general conditioning. What that has done for me is enable me to recover more effectively and also do more and it will reduce the likelihood of injury. Once I saw this, my attitude changed and now I look forward to these type of sessions as much as fingerboarding etc and of course, climbing itself. I haven't been to a gym for nearly 30 years and have no intention of returning. I find them rather dull, uninspiring environments, but fortunately you can do most things at home that gyms have you believe you need them for.

In reply to Robert Durran:

In reply to danm:

So Mr Randall if you're listening, there is a market for us old gits, you could call it the Old Grey Lattice Test or something.

Genius. You win the internet today.

Andy F

Another vote for Trackside. It really is quite easy.

I got it done as my first 7A a few years ago and my training regime involved:

1. going on a diet (from BMI of 30->24)
2. once or twice a week at the Matrix (small sheffield uni bouldering wall)
3. giving it some beans

Compared to the effort that went into ticking 7B the training routine and effort required was trivial.

In reply to Fishmate:


Is it really different as a 50 year old than a 20 year old or just more difficult? I don't think the sort of things you need to improve (strength, power endurance) to progress as a 50 year old as being and different. Also the excercises you need to get, stronger, fitter etc are the same.

In reply to Tyler:


That's how I feel. Obviously you do need to be more aware of injury management and recovery does take a bit longer, but my point was that a lot of people seem to all too easily fall back on the age excuse rather than pulling their finger out and getting stuff done. The only thing which I think holds me back more on rock at 53 than it did at 20, is my attitude to risk, but I find looking back on some of the stuff I did in my twenties a bit sickening, so I think that is entirely a good thing!

In reply to HeMa:


Mata Hari, the top out over the lip, scary and cannot reach the hold on the slab no matter what. Some yeras its closer, others further..


>Oh, and have you been to Valkeavuori?
Nope. I'm a bit blinkered, but with more time I should try somewhere, and something, else. Thanks for the tip

In reply to Fishmate:


Boulder regularly indoors and out but don't train, I'm not disciplined enough. I've just been doing it a reasonably long time.

In reply to Tyler:

If you read my earlier posts you are agreeing with me. Clearly you didn't. More difficult is different to less difficult! I stated very clearly that we have to do the same work as Matt Cousins or Shauna Coxsey, for example. Pay attention boy! )

In reply to Dave:

I'd say the fact you've known your climbing self for some time means you have a strong advantage in tailoring your sessions more.

Working weaknesses can be crap at first. But once you've got a little way in and see improvement and how that links to the bigger picture, it is more rewarding (in my experience) than showing up at the wall and doing problems in an unstructured way.

You may be surprised to find you can climb stuff you thought otherwise about.

In reply to Dave:

Viuhka at Valkeavuori is about the easiest 6C(+?) I've ever climbed, just clean the top before climbing. Soggy pineneedles cost me the flash.

In reply to Fishmate:


I did read your earlier posts which is why I was able to quote this from one of them "a 50 year old has a different set of rules to observe than a 20 year old" and that is what I am specifically disagreeing with. The 'rules' are the same for everyone, get stronger, get fitter etc. the rules for doing this are also the same for everyone. So you tell me which rules are different? And as a favour to me, see if you can do it without sounding incredibly patronising.

In reply to Tyler:
The exercises are the same however testosterone production which is key to building and retaining muscle mass is reduced in older men meaning you have to work harder for any gains. I would recommend adding lifting heavy weights, high load low number of reps to get the hormone kick. Older people probably carry more than a few war wounds which would make picking the right exercises really key, no ones made a new drug that grows cartilage yet (we have but it's still in testing...) so avoid grinding repeatedly away at stuff.

It's also useful to acknowledge that climbing is not simply muscle versus the rock with technique and finger tendon strength playing a major part which should be in ample supply in the older climber which could help in route selection.

Happy crushing!

In reply to Tyler:

Fair comment Tyler, so with patronisation excluded, the rules are different because our recovery phase is longer. That is scientific fact which no one can escape from. As such, and be fair here, my post only said older climbers have different considerations, so I'm confused as to why you think I have used age as an excuse.

Here is an example. I have just returned from the wall. When I arrived I bumped into one of the young Lithuanian strong boys and we briefly discussed amongst other things training. My guy climbs in the 8's. Today, he trained at the Arches in Bermondsey, London. He spent two hours in a highly structured session with another young guy in my climbing circle in the Biscuit factory. They rested for two hours, refuelled etc then crossed over to Building One for another two hours disciplined session. He got back to The Reach, rested, refuelled then came in for a Fingerboard session. This is something he does at least 3 days a week (with varied stimulus of course). He trains hard most days including allowing for what he feels is adequate and necessary recovery to ensure a) over-training doesn't occur, b) injury does not occur and c) importantly, gains are made and goals are met.

It's taken him 2 or so years to get to that level where such stimulus can be positively handled. Now, I could have taken the day off and with my current condition, I could have spent the day with them. I could not do multiple sessions each week at that intensity for too long at present. To get there will take me much longer due to the degeneration of the ageing effect. There is also other physical considerations of age a 50 year would need to take into account. This assumes a far greater emphasis on learning. This also assumes a far more intelligently structured program. So far I have given you THREE solid reasons why the needs of an older aspirational climber is different.

I could start on the psychological impact but you get where I am going. People like afx22, for example, have injuries that weigh heavy on how they might approach their training. This assumes again, a difference between young and old (Older climbers are more likely to have effects of injuries or degenerative issues. I could go on (you're probably glad I'm not .

My point being, if all you want to do, is say, get fitter, get stronger, that is one step away from saying to climb 8A, all you need to do is climb 8A. It doesn't answer anything and it doesn't help anyone who wants to understand what it might take to climb 8A, do so. So I stand by my original post that the rules for older are different to those of the younger.

I've given you the respect of a decent answer after doing limit bouldering and system board work after my long day at work and 16.5 hours on the go (if that isn't enough proof to you that I make the effort to get stronger, better and fitter and don't use age as any excuse whatsoever, tell me why). I'd love to hear your considered thoughts as to why there is no difference.

I'm an open book and have no time to waste treading the wrong path if my goals are to be realised, so if you steer me well, you'll have my very best attention. Cheers

In reply to Tyler:

That doesn't actually suggest I don't think a climber mustn't get stronger and fitter etc to climb harder, so doesn't support your opinion in any way if you feel you disagree with me.

I'm just trying to understand you. I come from a scientific research background and speak with scientists on occasion to understand how I can better what I am blessed with today and ensure my age is irrelevant. I also think all climbers experience is worth listening to until they prove me otherwise. I hope that makes sense.

In reply to Fishmate:

Thanks for the considered response. I think this is just descending into a semantic argument over the meaning of the phrase 'different rules'. I'm not doubting it's harder as you get older and that injuries are more prevalent (I know better than most!), just that what you do to get better and ways to avoid injury ('the rules') don't change.

In reply to Tyler:
We can agree on that for certain. If we ever should meet, let's agree to keep it lighter

Have a good season mate.

And thanks to Nick Brown for an inspiring article. Great insight.