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If I open my Audible app, choose my audio book, plug in earphones, play, then start driving, am I (in the eyes of the law) using my mobile phone while driving? Assume I don't look at or change settings on the phone while driving and stop the book only when I stop driving.
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
In my mind that counts as hands free and would therefore be fine. I could never imagine driving with ear phones in, though I see people doing it. I feel it would hinder my spacial awareness but I've never tried it! Doesn't your car have an aux socket or bluetooth?
In my mind that counts as hands free and would therefore be fine. I could never imagine driving with ear phones in, though I see people doing it. I feel it would hinder my spacial awareness but I've never tried it! Doesn't your car have an aux socket or bluetooth?
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In reply to elliot.baker:
sounds ok apart from the earphones. even if it wasn't covered under the mobile phone law if you had an accident I would think they could get you for driving without due care and attention .
sounds ok apart from the earphones. even if it wasn't covered under the mobile phone law if you had an accident I would think they could get you for driving without due care and attention .
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In reply to elliot.baker:
It would technically be hands free but if the police think you're distracted they can still pull you over, the earphones may count as a distraction. As suggested above, get an auxiliary cable or blue tooth adapter.
It would technically be hands free but if the police think you're distracted they can still pull you over, the earphones may count as a distraction. As suggested above, get an auxiliary cable or blue tooth adapter.
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
That would be legal. In fact, if you had downloaded the audiobook to your phone, then you could legally (from the point of view of the mobile phone law) operate the controls of the app whilst driving. If you were streaming the audiobook, then it would be illegal to operate the phone whilst you were driving. Sounds odd, but that is the way the law is written. I have had a fine for using gmaps on my phone when it would have been legal to hold a hand-held GPS or an offline map.
> If I open my Audible app, choose my audio book, plug in earphones, play, then start driving, am I (in the eyes of the law) using my mobile phone while driving? Assume I don't look at or change settings on the phone while driving and stop the book only when I stop driving.
That would be legal. In fact, if you had downloaded the audiobook to your phone, then you could legally (from the point of view of the mobile phone law) operate the controls of the app whilst driving. If you were streaming the audiobook, then it would be illegal to operate the phone whilst you were driving. Sounds odd, but that is the way the law is written. I have had a fine for using gmaps on my phone when it would have been legal to hold a hand-held GPS or an offline map.
Post edited at 21:21
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
How do you cope with people tooting you, ambulances and police cars if you can't hear any of them?
Chris
> If I open my Audible app, choose my audio book, plug in earphones, play, then start driving, am I (in the eyes of the law) using my mobile phone while driving? Assume I don't look at or change settings on the phone while driving and stop the book only when I stop driving.
How do you cope with people tooting you, ambulances and police cars if you can't hear any of them?
Chris
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
I think we'll see a clarification of the law re-headphones ere too long. After all, cutting yourself off in your own aural world of experience while driving a car is setting up a mental and sensory barrier to normal stimuli.
I think we'll see a clarification of the law re-headphones ere too long. After all, cutting yourself off in your own aural world of experience while driving a car is setting up a mental and sensory barrier to normal stimuli.
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In reply to Chris Craggs:
It's an audio book not Metallica. Not too different from listening to Radio 4. I can clearly hear police etc. The headphones are the little in-ear jobs and not noise cancelling so spacial awareness is not really affected.
> How do you cope with people tooting you, ambulances and police cars if you can't hear any of them?Chris
It's an audio book not Metallica. Not too different from listening to Radio 4. I can clearly hear police etc. The headphones are the little in-ear jobs and not noise cancelling so spacial awareness is not really affected.
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In reply to MarkJH:
Thanks for that. Audible books are downloaded. Good to know where I stand given that fines and points are due to be doubled soon.
> That would be legal. In fact, if you had downloaded the audiobook to your phone, then you could legally (from the point of view of the mobile phone law) operate the controls of the app whilst driving. If you were streaming the audiobook, then it would be illegal to operate the phone whilst you were driving. Sounds odd, but that is the way the law is written. I have had a fine for using gmaps on my phone when it would have been legal to hold a hand-held GPS or an offline map.
Thanks for that. Audible books are downloaded. Good to know where I stand given that fines and points are due to be doubled soon.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
I should add, of course, that there is still a high chance that you would be given a fixed penalty notice if the police see you using a phone under any circumstances. Getting it dropped would probably involve going to court and a lot of effort and expense, so definitely best to get a hands free kit rather than relying on the letter of the law.
> Thanks for that. Audible books are downloaded. Good to know where I stand given that fines and points are due to be doubled soon.
I should add, of course, that there is still a high chance that you would be given a fixed penalty notice if the police see you using a phone under any circumstances. Getting it dropped would probably involve going to court and a lot of effort and expense, so definitely best to get a hands free kit rather than relying on the letter of the law.
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In reply to wercat:
Will that clarification cover turning your car stereo up to a level past 'audio book'? I think listening to loud music is far more of a barrier than an audio book listed to at normal speaking level.
After all, you can drive if you are deaf (or hearing impaired) as long as DVLA know.
I find that listening to an audiobook relaxes me and makes me a less aggressive and therefore safer driver.
> I think we'll see a clarification of the law re-headphones ere too long. After all, cutting yourself off in your own aural world of experience while driving a car is setting up a mental and sensory barrier to normal stimuli.
Will that clarification cover turning your car stereo up to a level past 'audio book'? I think listening to loud music is far more of a barrier than an audio book listed to at normal speaking level.
After all, you can drive if you are deaf (or hearing impaired) as long as DVLA know.
I find that listening to an audiobook relaxes me and makes me a less aggressive and therefore safer driver.
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In reply to MarkJH:
I have just ordered a Belkin Tunecast which will allow me to play my iPhone through my radio.
I have just ordered a Belkin Tunecast which will allow me to play my iPhone through my radio.
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
true, but an audio book on a speaker allows external noise to penetrate
someone without hearing would have adapted over many years to driving with different sense balance
true, but an audio book on a speaker allows external noise to penetrate
someone without hearing would have adapted over many years to driving with different sense balance
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
and yes, nothing better than a good book/play to listen too, but I know that I'll miss bits if my attention is absorbed elsewhere
and yes, nothing better than a good book/play to listen too, but I know that I'll miss bits if my attention is absorbed elsewhere
In reply to wercat:
On lighter note I could say I have listened to audio books through headphones for many years and also have developed a heightened sense balance.
Seriously, I wonder how much it does affect safe driving. I've been driving for 32 years and average 400 miles each week and have never had a point on my licence or been involved in an accident. I really don't feel that headphones disadvantage me when listening to audio books. I think it would be different if I were listening to music, but speech has so many silences and gaps that I think my overall awareness is still ok.
On lighter note I could say I have listened to audio books through headphones for many years and also have developed a heightened sense balance.
Seriously, I wonder how much it does affect safe driving. I've been driving for 32 years and average 400 miles each week and have never had a point on my licence or been involved in an accident. I really don't feel that headphones disadvantage me when listening to audio books. I think it would be different if I were listening to music, but speech has so many silences and gaps that I think my overall awareness is still ok.
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In reply to wercat:
As do headphones
> true, but an audio book on a speaker allows external noise to penetratesomeone without hearing would have adapted over many years to driving with different sense balance
As do headphones
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Sometimes i find that chatting to my wife on the phone relaxes me and makes me less aggressive while driving.
Sometimes it has the opposite effect.
Sometimes i find that chatting to my wife on the phone relaxes me and makes me less aggressive while driving.
Sometimes it has the opposite effect.
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In reply to Chris Craggs:
Doesn't matter. I drive a Beemer.
> How do you cope with people tooting you, ambulances and police cars if you can't hear any of them?Chris
Doesn't matter. I drive a Beemer.
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In reply to MarkJH:
I was wondering what the score was with Google maps. I set it up before leaving home and sit it in a doocot in the car where some cars have in built GPS, and don't touch it. Is this the scenario that you were in when you got a fine?
> I have had a fine for using gmaps on my phone when it would have been legal to hold a hand-held GPS or an offline map.
I was wondering what the score was with Google maps. I set it up before leaving home and sit it in a doocot in the car where some cars have in built GPS, and don't touch it. Is this the scenario that you were in when you got a fine?
In reply to wercat:
When on my motorbike I wear SNR 32 ear plugs to protect my hearing but I can still hear sirens and horns.
Recently I have gone over to fitted plugs with built in audio drivers and with music on I can still hear sirens and horns.
When on my motorbike I wear SNR 32 ear plugs to protect my hearing but I can still hear sirens and horns.
Recently I have gone over to fitted plugs with built in audio drivers and with music on I can still hear sirens and horns.
In reply to girlymonkey:
No, you should be OK doing that. I got a fine because I was holding it on the steering wheel. My reasoning was that it would be less distracting if I didn't have to look away from the road to check it. To be fair to the police, I failed to recognise a large and clearly marked police car coming in the opposite direction, so it must have been more distracting than I thought!
> I was wondering what the score was with Google maps. I set it up before leaving home and sit it in a doocot in the car where some cars have in built GPS, and don't touch it. Is this the scenario that you were in when you got a fine?
No, you should be OK doing that. I got a fine because I was holding it on the steering wheel. My reasoning was that it would be less distracting if I didn't have to look away from the road to check it. To be fair to the police, I failed to recognise a large and clearly marked police car coming in the opposite direction, so it must have been more distracting than I thought!
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In reply to MarkJH:
I'm a bit confused by this. Is it ok to stream something via your phone and car's stereo if the phone is set up before commencing the journey and the controls aren't touched whilst driving?
> That would be legal. In fact, if you had downloaded the audiobook to your phone, then you could legally (from the point of view of the mobile phone law) operate the controls of the app whilst driving. If you were streaming the audiobook, then it would be illegal to operate the phone whilst you were driving. Sounds odd, but that is the way the law is written. I have had a fine for using gmaps on my phone when it would have been legal to hold a hand-held GPS or an offline map.
I'm a bit confused by this. Is it ok to stream something via your phone and car's stereo if the phone is set up before commencing the journey and the controls aren't touched whilst driving?
In reply to Tony Jones:
A senior police officer with responsibility for this was on 5 Live this morning. As I understand her, the new penalties and the offence relate to using a device for communication. Therefore calls and texting.
You can be done with other legislation for not having "both hands on the wheel". So people have been done for drinking coffee, eating a sandwich, shaving, reading etc.
Though I suspect there was something about the offenders driving style that initially attracted attention to them.
A young lady in a volvo caught my eye on the M60 by the Trafford centre yesterday, when the weather so so bad the snow was settling on Barton Bridge. She twice drifted half a car width into another lane and eventually set up her own rolling road block in the middle lane. As I eventually passed her I could see her frantically typing on her phone
A senior police officer with responsibility for this was on 5 Live this morning. As I understand her, the new penalties and the offence relate to using a device for communication. Therefore calls and texting.
You can be done with other legislation for not having "both hands on the wheel". So people have been done for drinking coffee, eating a sandwich, shaving, reading etc.
Though I suspect there was something about the offenders driving style that initially attracted attention to them.
A young lady in a volvo caught my eye on the M60 by the Trafford centre yesterday, when the weather so so bad the snow was settling on Barton Bridge. She twice drifted half a car width into another lane and eventually set up her own rolling road block in the middle lane. As I eventually passed her I could see her frantically typing on her phone
In reply to Tony Jones:
Technically yes.
But I wouldn't want to try and argue that if pulled over and asked why your phone is 'being used'!
Technically yes.
But I wouldn't want to try and argue that if pulled over and asked why your phone is 'being used'!
In reply to ClimberEd:
If it's in your pocket it isn't a "hand held mobile phone", just like it isn't if it's in a cradle.
> Technically yes.But I wouldn't want to try and argue that if pulled over and asked why your phone is 'being used'!
If it's in your pocket it isn't a "hand held mobile phone", just like it isn't if it's in a cradle.
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In reply to Neil Williams:
Not quite (according to the letter of the law). The definition is:
"a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function"
For the phone in the pocket, it still counts as hand-held, even if it is not held in the hand whilst driving, whilst the phone in the cradle is not. The offence is 'using' a hand-held device whilst driving. Whether listening is counted as 'use' I don't know, but you do get the impression that the law was written in a way which is ambiguous towards some of the functions of modern phones.
> If it's in your pocket it isn't a "hand held mobile phone", just like it isn't if it's in a cradle.
Not quite (according to the letter of the law). The definition is:
"a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function"
For the phone in the pocket, it still counts as hand-held, even if it is not held in the hand whilst driving, whilst the phone in the cradle is not. The offence is 'using' a hand-held device whilst driving. Whether listening is counted as 'use' I don't know, but you do get the impression that the law was written in a way which is ambiguous towards some of the functions of modern phones.
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
You wear earphones?! Why? Just use speakers like someone that is less likely to be a nuisance on the road.
You wear earphones?! Why? Just use speakers like someone that is less likely to be a nuisance on the road.
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In reply to MarkJH:
That's because it was written in the days of Nokia dumbphones. Had they been more generic it'd have banned you using your satnav feature in a cradle (because it's part of a phone that could be handheld) which would have been rather stupid, as satnav has many positive road-safety features (as long as you don't prat about with it while driving).
> Not quite (according to the letter of the law). The definition is: "a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function"For the phone in the pocket, it still counts as hand-held, even if it is not held in the hand whilst driving, whilst the phone in the cradle is not. The offence is 'using' a hand-held device whilst driving. Whether listening is counted as 'use' I don't know, but you do get the impression that the law was written in a way which is ambiguous towards some of the functions of modern phones.
That's because it was written in the days of Nokia dumbphones. Had they been more generic it'd have banned you using your satnav feature in a cradle (because it's part of a phone that could be handheld) which would have been rather stupid, as satnav has many positive road-safety features (as long as you don't prat about with it while driving).
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
Interesting topic - I use my phone and bluetooth speaker as a music device in my van. It essentially no different to an i-pod in this use.
Interesting topic - I use my phone and bluetooth speaker as a music device in my van. It essentially no different to an i-pod in this use.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Although wearing headphones while driving is not explicitly illegal, the practice is dangerous and could result in prosecution if deemed to be the cause of an accident. A distraction, including wearing headphones emitting loud music while driving, could come under NSW Road Rule 297(1).
Although wearing headphones while driving is not explicitly illegal, the practice is dangerous and could result in prosecution if deemed to be the cause of an accident. A distraction, including wearing headphones emitting loud music while driving, could come under NSW Road Rule 297(1).
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
The BBC have an article with some examples at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39118523
The BBC have an article with some examples at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39118523
In reply to rockcatch:
And from the linked BBC article: "You can use your phone to listen to music and podcasts but only if your phone is in a hands-free holder or connected by Bluetooth. "
So a cable from the headphone socket of the phone to the aux socket on the radio and the phone in the cupholder isn't a legal arrangement. However if I get one of those cradle thingies it is apparently okay. I'm a bit confused by all this.
> The BBC have an article with some examples at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39118523
And from the linked BBC article: "You can use your phone to listen to music and podcasts but only if your phone is in a hands-free holder or connected by Bluetooth. "
So a cable from the headphone socket of the phone to the aux socket on the radio and the phone in the cupholder isn't a legal arrangement. However if I get one of those cradle thingies it is apparently okay. I'm a bit confused by all this.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Let's be honest - the reason we choose to listen to something - be that a book, a podcast, a CD - is because it is a way of passing the time whilst driving.
Why don't we just listen to whatever is on the radio? Because it doesn't engage us.
Why do we want to be engaged? Because the journey passes faster.
Why does the journey pass faster? Because we are distracted.
If we are distracted are we driving better or worse than if we are focussed on the road....?
> I find that listening to an audiobook relaxes me and makes me a less aggressive and therefore safer driver.
Let's be honest - the reason we choose to listen to something - be that a book, a podcast, a CD - is because it is a way of passing the time whilst driving.
Why don't we just listen to whatever is on the radio? Because it doesn't engage us.
Why do we want to be engaged? Because the journey passes faster.
Why does the journey pass faster? Because we are distracted.
If we are distracted are we driving better or worse than if we are focussed on the road....?
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In reply to off-duty:
On a 4-5 hour drive can anyone focus 100% on the road for the duration? Really? 100%?
Are you also saying that it's not possible to listen to something and focus on the road? That's not even multi-tasking, it's dual-tasking.
And yes, it's better to be awake and alert, if aided by an audio book, than to be staring ahead in silence pretending to be focused on the road.
On a 4-5 hour drive can anyone focus 100% on the road for the duration? Really? 100%?
Are you also saying that it's not possible to listen to something and focus on the road? That's not even multi-tasking, it's dual-tasking.
And yes, it's better to be awake and alert, if aided by an audio book, than to be staring ahead in silence pretending to be focused on the road.
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In reply to JayPee630:
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding your post. My phone (not a prehistoric relic but an iPhone 6) has a tiny speaker and it's quite difficult to hear it unless I slip it into my short pocket. If you are referring to my car speakers you are clearly missing the point. My car is 6 years old and doesn't have bluetooth or any other wireless based technology. Do you really think I would wear earphones if I could play my audio book directly through my car stereo?? Really? Really??? FFS REALLY?????
> You wear earphones?! Why? Just use speakers like someone that is less likely to be a nuisance on the road.
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding your post. My phone (not a prehistoric relic but an iPhone 6) has a tiny speaker and it's quite difficult to hear it unless I slip it into my short pocket. If you are referring to my car speakers you are clearly missing the point. My car is 6 years old and doesn't have bluetooth or any other wireless based technology. Do you really think I would wear earphones if I could play my audio book directly through my car stereo?? Really? Really??? FFS REALLY?????
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In reply to Tony Jones:
Can't see why a cable wouldn't be OK, nor can I see that Bluetooth would be OK if you physically had to pick it up to choose a track.
Perhaps they mean you're remote controlling it from Bluetooth and thus don't have to hold it.
IOW, it's only permitted to touch it with your hands if it's held in a cradle. You can use any control method you like that doesn't involve touching it.
> And from the linked BBC article: "You can use your phone to listen to music and podcasts but only if your phone is in a hands-free holder or connected by Bluetooth. "So a cable from the headphone socket of the phone to the aux socket on the radio and the phone in the cupholder isn't a legal arrangement. However if I get one of those cradle thingies it is apparently okay. I'm a bit confused by all this.
Can't see why a cable wouldn't be OK, nor can I see that Bluetooth would be OK if you physically had to pick it up to choose a track.
Perhaps they mean you're remote controlling it from Bluetooth and thus don't have to hold it.
IOW, it's only permitted to touch it with your hands if it's held in a cradle. You can use any control method you like that doesn't involve touching it.
Post edited at 00:10
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Does it have an aux socket? If it has a cassette in the radio you can get adapters to connect to the earphone socket of the phone.
Does it have an aux socket? If it has a cassette in the radio you can get adapters to connect to the earphone socket of the phone.
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In reply to wercat:
I find all the variables in this quite facinating. We have a deaf driver at work who gets around fine in his truck. But there are many other distractions that we have that people don't pick up on. Namely other passengers. Whenever we go away together my wife and I tend to have interesting discussions rather than listen to the radio but that is not nearly as distracting as a "friend" who monologues an inane stream of consciousness when ever he is in the vehicle with me. He also constantly asks questions. "What do think of what that bloke did?" "Where is Denmark?" "How do you spell inflammation?" "What's a wombat?" Ask him to stop and it is but a momentary blip then he starts up again. Usually with a fresh monologue about how he doesn't think he talks too much, people are trying to oppress him, do I really think he talks too much, etc, etc, etc. Wearing earplugs would be an oasis of calm
I find all the variables in this quite facinating. We have a deaf driver at work who gets around fine in his truck. But there are many other distractions that we have that people don't pick up on. Namely other passengers. Whenever we go away together my wife and I tend to have interesting discussions rather than listen to the radio but that is not nearly as distracting as a "friend" who monologues an inane stream of consciousness when ever he is in the vehicle with me. He also constantly asks questions. "What do think of what that bloke did?" "Where is Denmark?" "How do you spell inflammation?" "What's a wombat?" Ask him to stop and it is but a momentary blip then he starts up again. Usually with a fresh monologue about how he doesn't think he talks too much, people are trying to oppress him, do I really think he talks too much, etc, etc, etc. Wearing earplugs would be an oasis of calm
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In reply to Duncan Bourne:
certainly true. I tend to mention that I need to pay more attention if someone is talking too much and suggest they listen to something on the radio (you can tell I've done a lot of driving on my own!) if I don't feel like talking at that time.
To be clear, and I don't think listening on headphones is anything like as bad as using a phone while driving, hands free or not. I'm happiest driving with the radio on and something interesting but not too distracting. If there's only crap on then it'll be off. I once tried light, walkman type headphones but hated the sense of being cut off from the outside world, totally different from speakers. I tried cycling with headphones when I first got a Walkman in the early 80s. First time was the last time as I felt so vulnerable with one of my senses compromised. I might be an exception (if I'm alone in the hills at night I prefer not to use a headtorch till I really can't manage safely without it as the small pool of lit up area makes me feel less aware and more uncomfortable about what is in the dark behind me. with it off you're somehow more connected with everything, hopefully the ground too, provided it's safe)
I never expected to see drivers prosecuted for eating an apple at the wheel or taking a drink during a journey but this has happened so the climate has changed and that was why I made my comment about expecting the law to be clarified before too long.
certainly true. I tend to mention that I need to pay more attention if someone is talking too much and suggest they listen to something on the radio (you can tell I've done a lot of driving on my own!) if I don't feel like talking at that time.
To be clear, and I don't think listening on headphones is anything like as bad as using a phone while driving, hands free or not. I'm happiest driving with the radio on and something interesting but not too distracting. If there's only crap on then it'll be off. I once tried light, walkman type headphones but hated the sense of being cut off from the outside world, totally different from speakers. I tried cycling with headphones when I first got a Walkman in the early 80s. First time was the last time as I felt so vulnerable with one of my senses compromised. I might be an exception (if I'm alone in the hills at night I prefer not to use a headtorch till I really can't manage safely without it as the small pool of lit up area makes me feel less aware and more uncomfortable about what is in the dark behind me. with it off you're somehow more connected with everything, hopefully the ground too, provided it's safe)
I never expected to see drivers prosecuted for eating an apple at the wheel or taking a drink during a journey but this has happened so the climate has changed and that was why I made my comment about expecting the law to be clarified before too long.
Post edited at 08:58
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In reply to wercat:
The driving without due care and attention covers quite a lot. As you say people have been done for eating apples etc. (something I am guilty of on long journeys). Dash cams and mobile phones (ie those used by passengers) make it more likely that someone will be filmed doing things that in the past they wouldn't.
I am not sure what the law says about distracting passengers? In the past I have had passengers, variously, shove a paper in my face (look at this article), cover my eyes, grab the steering wheel, ask me to hold something and on one occasion let a cat out of a cat box (it was mewling) so that it ran and hid under the pedals!
Out of curiousity what is the position on using a phone when traffic is stopped? For example in road works or heavy conjestion? You haven't pulled off the road but you are not moving. I would imagine that you are still technically in control of the vehicle even though you are not posing a danger to other road users.
The driving without due care and attention covers quite a lot. As you say people have been done for eating apples etc. (something I am guilty of on long journeys). Dash cams and mobile phones (ie those used by passengers) make it more likely that someone will be filmed doing things that in the past they wouldn't.
I am not sure what the law says about distracting passengers? In the past I have had passengers, variously, shove a paper in my face (look at this article), cover my eyes, grab the steering wheel, ask me to hold something and on one occasion let a cat out of a cat box (it was mewling) so that it ran and hid under the pedals!
Out of curiousity what is the position on using a phone when traffic is stopped? For example in road works or heavy conjestion? You haven't pulled off the road but you are not moving. I would imagine that you are still technically in control of the vehicle even though you are not posing a danger to other road users.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
Then you shouldn't be using anything if you can't do it through speakers. Using earphones is not safe.
Then you shouldn't be using anything if you can't do it through speakers. Using earphones is not safe.
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
I was led to believe that using (2) earphones to listen to music was illegal, in that you cannot hear what else is going on, and that it becomes "driving without due care and attention".
I was led to believe that using (2) earphones to listen to music was illegal, in that you cannot hear what else is going on, and that it becomes "driving without due care and attention".
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In reply to fred99:
Thank you, exactly. The defence of 'my iPhone speaker is too small' is not a very strong one.
Thank you, exactly. The defence of 'my iPhone speaker is too small' is not a very strong one.
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
Yes. It's hard work though and very tiring. Try running a commentary or driving to the system as per and advanced traffic officer pursuit.
Are you also saying that it's not possible to listen to something and focus on the road? That's not even multi-tasking, it's dual-tasking.
Yes. It's not just me saying it though. Studies indicate that even having a conversation on hands-free can be as distracting as using a non hands free mobile.
And yes, it's better to be awake and alert, if aided by an audio book, than to be staring ahead in silence pretending to be focused on the road.
Obviously no-one is suggesting that you "pretend".
Awake and alert versus half asleep is also definitely the lesser of 2 evils I would guess.
But (and I'm as guilty as the next person) we are all hoping we'll be so engaged by what we are listening to that we won't notice two hours of the journey fly by.
With the emphasis on "won't notice" with the potential for distraction that implies - especially cruising at 70 mph when bad and unexpected things can happen fast.
> On a 4-5 hour drive can anyone focus 100% on the road for the duration? Really? 100%?
Yes. It's hard work though and very tiring. Try running a commentary or driving to the system as per and advanced traffic officer pursuit.
Are you also saying that it's not possible to listen to something and focus on the road? That's not even multi-tasking, it's dual-tasking.
Yes. It's not just me saying it though. Studies indicate that even having a conversation on hands-free can be as distracting as using a non hands free mobile.
And yes, it's better to be awake and alert, if aided by an audio book, than to be staring ahead in silence pretending to be focused on the road.
Obviously no-one is suggesting that you "pretend".
Awake and alert versus half asleep is also definitely the lesser of 2 evils I would guess.
But (and I'm as guilty as the next person) we are all hoping we'll be so engaged by what we are listening to that we won't notice two hours of the journey fly by.
With the emphasis on "won't notice" with the potential for distraction that implies - especially cruising at 70 mph when bad and unexpected things can happen fast.
In reply to estivoautumnal:
My car is twice as old as yours so it doesn't have a bluetooth/Aux facility either. I'd thought about getting a battery powered Bluetooth speaker so I can listen to Podcasts. I'm pretty sure I'd feel uncomfortable (mentally, rather than physically) driving while wearing earphones.
My car is twice as old as yours so it doesn't have a bluetooth/Aux facility either. I'd thought about getting a battery powered Bluetooth speaker so I can listen to Podcasts. I'm pretty sure I'd feel uncomfortable (mentally, rather than physically) driving while wearing earphones.
In reply to Fraser:
I sometimes have in ear headphones in while listening to podcasts or audio books. My car doesnt have aux, tapedeck or cig lighter to tn an itrip thing.
Im not sure what headphone you guys are using or what volume you think i listen to audiobooks at but i can still hear traffic, police cars toots of horns etc.
I would guess my hearing is probably more impeded when listening to music through the speakers due to the wall of sound of music rather than the silence between words of spoken word
I sometimes have in ear headphones in while listening to podcasts or audio books. My car doesnt have aux, tapedeck or cig lighter to tn an itrip thing.
Im not sure what headphone you guys are using or what volume you think i listen to audiobooks at but i can still hear traffic, police cars toots of horns etc.
I would guess my hearing is probably more impeded when listening to music through the speakers due to the wall of sound of music rather than the silence between words of spoken word
Post edited at 14:35
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In reply to estivoautumnal:
I'd bet a good sum of money that your car has an amazing bit of wireless technology called an FM/AM radio. You can buy a thing that plugs into your phone that transmits (weakly) the audio on FM, which your stereo then picks up.
> My car is 6 years old and doesn't have bluetooth or any other wireless based technology.
I'd bet a good sum of money that your car has an amazing bit of wireless technology called an FM/AM radio. You can buy a thing that plugs into your phone that transmits (weakly) the audio on FM, which your stereo then picks up.
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
This is not allowed either. I'm regularly mystified that people don't know this. Most obvious when seeing someone 'just sending a quick text' in stopped traffic who doesn't realise that there is now a six-car-length gap in front of them.
I look forwards to the time when cars are not driven by people, which renders a lot of this kind of 'problem' moot. That will, of course, bring its own fresh set of unforeseen problems.
> Out of curiousity what is the position on using a phone when traffic is stopped? For example in road works or heavy conjestion? You haven't pulled off the road but you are not moving. I would imagine that you are still technically in control of the vehicle even though you are not posing a danger to other road users.
This is not allowed either. I'm regularly mystified that people don't know this. Most obvious when seeing someone 'just sending a quick text' in stopped traffic who doesn't realise that there is now a six-car-length gap in front of them.
I look forwards to the time when cars are not driven by people, which renders a lot of this kind of 'problem' moot. That will, of course, bring its own fresh set of unforeseen problems.
2
In reply to estivoautumnal:
This is the same sort of flawed reasoning that leads the majority of drivers to rate themselves as 'above average'. By definition, 50% of drivers will be below average, and - because of the numbers involved - some of those will have driven considerably more incident-free miles/hours than you.
If anything, your incident-free record could mean you are, pseudo-statistically speaking, 'due' an accident. I hope you don't have the added complexity of explaining the earphones if you're unlucky enough to have this happen.
> I've been driving for 32 years and average 400 miles each week and have never had a point on my licence or been involved in an accident.
This is the same sort of flawed reasoning that leads the majority of drivers to rate themselves as 'above average'. By definition, 50% of drivers will be below average, and - because of the numbers involved - some of those will have driven considerably more incident-free miles/hours than you.
If anything, your incident-free record could mean you are, pseudo-statistically speaking, 'due' an accident. I hope you don't have the added complexity of explaining the earphones if you're unlucky enough to have this happen.
1
In reply to Fraser:
Why not go to Halfords and get a cheap radio that does Bluetooth? You should be able to get it installed for around £100. Then you can put your phone in the glovebox and listen to podcasts as much as you like. You can fiddle with your radio perfectly legally.
If you have an iPhone, you can talk to Siri and take calls hands free.
You'll probably find a Bluetooth speaker quite fiddly and uses a lot of batteries .
> My car is twice as old as yours so it doesn't have a bluetooth/Aux facility either. I'd thought about getting a battery powered Bluetooth speaker so I can listen to Podcasts. I'm pretty sure I'd feel uncomfortable (mentally, rather than physically) driving while wearing earphones.
Why not go to Halfords and get a cheap radio that does Bluetooth? You should be able to get it installed for around £100. Then you can put your phone in the glovebox and listen to podcasts as much as you like. You can fiddle with your radio perfectly legally.
If you have an iPhone, you can talk to Siri and take calls hands free.
You'll probably find a Bluetooth speaker quite fiddly and uses a lot of batteries .
Post edited at 16:19
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In reply to PM:
This so reminds me of the time I gave someone a lift to Wales many years ago.
"Have you ever had an accident?" they asked.
"one", I said. "on my own time"
"On your own time?"
"I wasn't counting work driving."
"How many have you had at work then?"
"God knows! Loads," replied.
I should clarify that all of them were low impact accidents. Mainly the result of giving double wheel base trailers to van drivers with no experience of driving a trailer and then expecting them to successfully manoever them down narrow side streets and crowded depot yards. This was in the days before training was compulsory.
I smashed hell out of it that first year. They practically had accident forms with my name on as a template
This so reminds me of the time I gave someone a lift to Wales many years ago.
"Have you ever had an accident?" they asked.
"one", I said. "on my own time"
"On your own time?"
"I wasn't counting work driving."
"How many have you had at work then?"
"God knows! Loads," replied.
I should clarify that all of them were low impact accidents. Mainly the result of giving double wheel base trailers to van drivers with no experience of driving a trailer and then expecting them to successfully manoever them down narrow side streets and crowded depot yards. This was in the days before training was compulsory.
I smashed hell out of it that first year. They practically had accident forms with my name on as a template
In reply to fred99:
correct. It comes under driving without due care or attention.
The exception being ear defenders for drivers of vehicles such as tractors and similar without soundproof cabs on health and safety grounds
correct. It comes under driving without due care or attention.
The exception being ear defenders for drivers of vehicles such as tractors and similar without soundproof cabs on health and safety grounds
Post edited at 17:45
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In reply to off-duty:
I think that also the radio or music may keep us awake on long journeys.
My way of dealing with it is to sing to myself whilst driving
I think that also the radio or music may keep us awake on long journeys.
My way of dealing with it is to sing to myself whilst driving
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
If you think you might fall asleep while driving if you didn't have the radio on… prrrrrrobably shouldn't be driving!
If you think you might fall asleep while driving if you didn't have the radio on… prrrrrrobably shouldn't be driving!
2
In reply to PM:
Ah but you don't think you will fall asleep when you set off. The monotony of motorway driving can have a soporific effect on me. The radio keeps me going to the next service station if I am driving alone where I can have a coffee and a rest up
Ah but you don't think you will fall asleep when you set off. The monotony of motorway driving can have a soporific effect on me. The radio keeps me going to the next service station if I am driving alone where I can have a coffee and a rest up
Post edited at 21:11
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In reply to Duncan Bourne:
or like James, "I sing myself to sleep...."
> I think that also the radio or music may keep us awake on long journeys.My way of dealing with it is to sing to myself whilst driving
or like James, "I sing myself to sleep...."
1
In reply to estivoautumnal:
I've always been curious:
How do pilots stay awake on long journeys? Do they listen to podcasts and the radio? It seems that flying in a straight line and constant speed would be very boring, with perhaps even nothing to look at.
Does anyone know ?
I've always been curious:
How do pilots stay awake on long journeys? Do they listen to podcasts and the radio? It seems that flying in a straight line and constant speed would be very boring, with perhaps even nothing to look at.
Does anyone know ?
1
4
In reply to Jimbocz:
On very long flights there are several of them, so they can take turns sleeping, and there are lots of 'bleep bleep!' alarms which go off when they need to do something, so they don't need to pay as constant attention as a motorway driver. Although they're going 5-600mph, they're unlikely to have to react in half a second to a broken-down lorry in the fast lane, and will probably have a few minutes between something 'bad' happening and hitting anything.
On very long flights there are several of them, so they can take turns sleeping, and there are lots of 'bleep bleep!' alarms which go off when they need to do something, so they don't need to pay as constant attention as a motorway driver. Although they're going 5-600mph, they're unlikely to have to react in half a second to a broken-down lorry in the fast lane, and will probably have a few minutes between something 'bad' happening and hitting anything.
1
In reply to Toerag:
Pilots, of course, being all male? And stewardesses being ... ?
I would hope that UKC could be better than this.
> BJs from the stewardesses?
Pilots, of course, being all male? And stewardesses being ... ?
I would hope that UKC could be better than this.
3
In reply to Jimbocz:
when they went to the moon they all slept at once.... but they did at least have a sextant so they could see where they were when they woke up
when they went to the moon they all slept at once.... but they did at least have a sextant so they could see where they were when they woke up
1
In reply to Toerag:
I think this is highly unlikely. As another poster recognised, you post is overtly sexist and makes a number of lazy generalisations regarding gender stereotypes.
Also the removal of tadpole yoghurt from avionic equipment is time consuming and expensive.
> BJs from the stewardesses?
I think this is highly unlikely. As another poster recognised, you post is overtly sexist and makes a number of lazy generalisations regarding gender stereotypes.
Also the removal of tadpole yoghurt from avionic equipment is time consuming and expensive.
Post edited at 16:31
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In reply to Jimbocz:
I would assume that for most of the time the plane flies on autopilot. With alarms to wake the pilot if anything starts to go pear shaped
I would assume that for most of the time the plane flies on autopilot. With alarms to wake the pilot if anything starts to go pear shaped
In reply to Dorchester:
On a more practical note, isn't the cockpit* isolated in flight these days? Presumably the First Officer's duties have expanded to reflect this
*This probably doesn't help with the gender stereotyping
> I think this is highly unlikely. As another poster recognised, you post is overtly sexist and makes a number of lazy generalisations regarding gender stereotypes.
On a more practical note, isn't the cockpit* isolated in flight these days? Presumably the First Officer's duties have expanded to reflect this
*This probably doesn't help with the gender stereotyping
In reply to Dorchester:
I was being lazy - couldn't be bothered to cover all the modern options of sexuality. Besides, who honestly thinks that sort of thing goes on in the cockpit of a commercial flight?
> you post is overtly sexist and makes a number of lazy generalisations regarding gender stereotypes.
I was being lazy - couldn't be bothered to cover all the modern options of sexuality. Besides, who honestly thinks that sort of thing goes on in the cockpit of a commercial flight?
In reply to Dorchester:
I would imagine the male flight attendants are equally adept.
I would imagine the male flight attendants are equally adept.
Post edited at 09:03
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In reply to Toerag:
Yes, as unlikely as the man in the left hand seat taking selfies while working....oh but that wasn't a commercial flight so no worries.
Yes, as unlikely as the man in the left hand seat taking selfies while working....oh but that wasn't a commercial flight so no worries.
Post edited at 10:06
In reply to MarkJH:
The policeman on Radio4 this morning said, if it's in a cradle that's fine but you could still be done for driving without due care if you were seen to be driving poorly. He said exactly the same about using a GPS, if it's fixed that's fine, if you hold it then that's not. He was very clear about this and there's no way I'd chance using any hand held device while driving based on some spurious quirk as they'd just do you for driving without due care.
Re. the OP. As long as you don't touch it your fine and you have to be properly parked, preferably with the engine turned off to avoid confusion, before touching the phone. Being stopped in traffic is not good enough.
The policeman on Radio4 this morning said, if it's in a cradle that's fine but you could still be done for driving without due care if you were seen to be driving poorly. He said exactly the same about using a GPS, if it's fixed that's fine, if you hold it then that's not. He was very clear about this and there's no way I'd chance using any hand held device while driving based on some spurious quirk as they'd just do you for driving without due care.
Re. the OP. As long as you don't touch it your fine and you have to be properly parked, preferably with the engine turned off to avoid confusion, before touching the phone. Being stopped in traffic is not good enough.
In reply to gethin_allen:
I would assume your last sentence also applies to phones being used as SatNavs
I would assume your last sentence also applies to phones being used as SatNavs
Post edited at 13:53
In reply to gethin_allen:
Here's a thought that occured to me. Scenario: You are stuck in traffic, like it is not moving at all call it an accident up the road. You haven't moved in half an hour (engine turned off) and there seems no likely hood of moving any time soon. Folks are getting out of their cars and stretching their legs. You get out of the car walk over to the verge and make a call to say you are going to be late or something.
Technically is that still illegal.
Here's a thought that occured to me. Scenario: You are stuck in traffic, like it is not moving at all call it an accident up the road. You haven't moved in half an hour (engine turned off) and there seems no likely hood of moving any time soon. Folks are getting out of their cars and stretching their legs. You get out of the car walk over to the verge and make a call to say you are going to be late or something.
Technically is that still illegal.
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
They actually addressed this in the interview, the policeman stated that if you were parked in a queue in the motorway with the engine turned off you could technically be done for it but he would use his discretion in this case.
Edit. Technically in your scenario you could get done for walking on a motorway other than in an emergency but you wouldn't be done for using your phone outside the vehicle.
They actually addressed this in the interview, the policeman stated that if you were parked in a queue in the motorway with the engine turned off you could technically be done for it but he would use his discretion in this case.
Edit. Technically in your scenario you could get done for walking on a motorway other than in an emergency but you wouldn't be done for using your phone outside the vehicle.
Post edited at 16:15
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In reply to gethin_allen:
At the first school I taught in, the Head Teacher (a small but formidable woman) was delayed for over 10 hours on the M25 after an accident. She needed a wee (understandably) and climbed up an embankment to go behind a hedge. A young police motorcyclist came by and told her he could give her a ticket for abandoning her vehicle or something. She told him to stop being a silly little boy and would he rather she went in his helmet. He went on his way.
At the first school I taught in, the Head Teacher (a small but formidable woman) was delayed for over 10 hours on the M25 after an accident. She needed a wee (understandably) and climbed up an embankment to go behind a hedge. A young police motorcyclist came by and told her he could give her a ticket for abandoning her vehicle or something. She told him to stop being a silly little boy and would he rather she went in his helmet. He went on his way.
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