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I got some Paramo Cascadas last November to replace ancient Gore Tex hardshells for Scottish winter hillwaking and they haven't made it through the season without falling to pieces. Right now they are covered in Tenacious tape and Gore Tex repair tape, including along a couple seams which have become unstitched. I haven't been winter climbing, just hillwalking with a wee bit of scrambling, nothing crazy, nothing hardcore. Every time I sit on a rock or scrape against one, they seem to get a new hole and the stitches pull apart. I'm not sliding down mountains here -- just doing normal hillwalking stuff. My partner bought some Montane softshells at the same time and they look as good as new.
Like a fool, I didn't keep the receipt, and I didn't get around to registering it with Paramo. I guess I'm accustomed to decent gear being pretty indestructable and not worrying about it. The one time I had an issue, the gear company in question (hi, Osprey) sorted it out without any fuss. Wrong move here: Paramo says they will repair them but they will charge me for it. I'm trying to work out whether there is anything I can do or if I'm going to have to eat at least £40 (according to their website).
Yeah, I know should have registered, but hindsight is 20/20. The damn things still fell apart!
Post edited at 15:17
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
Depending on circumstances so not sure it helps, but you do not necessarily have to have a proper receipt nowadays to go back to the retailer. You usually have to show or convince them that you bought the trousers from them - internet online records/email record/CC statement or CC receipt, etc. Have you anything to allow you to go back to them (still well within the six months rule)?
Also, I have not registered most of my Paramo gear with Paramo themselves. This, however, has never affected how Paramo has dealt with me when I have contacted them direct. I have only had to contact them on three occasions over many years IIRC, but all were free of charge repairs. Maybe I was lucky - it was all quite a few years ago now. Most of my gear now is old and I do wonder if materials are lighter/not as tough as they once were. My gear has survived well overall to relatively hard use and general wear and tear. Once through a slip on the gabbro of the Cuillin did I actually rip the trousers!
As previous poster says though ...! Maybe they are just not up to what you are needing from them? I have Cascadas, but I always thought the stitching was a bit too exposed on the legs given the soft fabric nature and would be more prone to damage (even though mind have not actually suffered much) such that I would not for many many years through choice use them for anything being too close to rocks; more general hillwalking only. Sorry, probably not any help.
Depending on circumstances so not sure it helps, but you do not necessarily have to have a proper receipt nowadays to go back to the retailer. You usually have to show or convince them that you bought the trousers from them - internet online records/email record/CC statement or CC receipt, etc. Have you anything to allow you to go back to them (still well within the six months rule)?
Also, I have not registered most of my Paramo gear with Paramo themselves. This, however, has never affected how Paramo has dealt with me when I have contacted them direct. I have only had to contact them on three occasions over many years IIRC, but all were free of charge repairs. Maybe I was lucky - it was all quite a few years ago now. Most of my gear now is old and I do wonder if materials are lighter/not as tough as they once were. My gear has survived well overall to relatively hard use and general wear and tear. Once through a slip on the gabbro of the Cuillin did I actually rip the trousers!
As previous poster says though ...! Maybe they are just not up to what you are needing from them? I have Cascadas, but I always thought the stitching was a bit too exposed on the legs given the soft fabric nature and would be more prone to damage (even though mind have not actually suffered much) such that I would not for many many years through choice use them for anything being too close to rocks; more general hillwalking only. Sorry, probably not any help.
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
If they haven't even made it through a season of standard hill walking without falling apart, why do you want them repaired? Do you expect the repaired product to hold up well afterwards? From what you describe, I'd expect it to start falling apart again after a couple of months.
I'd suggest either trying to find a way to get a free repair/exchange/refund, or ditch them and buy something else.
> I'm trying to work out whether there is anything I can do or if I'm going to have to eat at least £40 (according to their website).
If they haven't even made it through a season of standard hill walking without falling apart, why do you want them repaired? Do you expect the repaired product to hold up well afterwards? From what you describe, I'd expect it to start falling apart again after a couple of months.
I'd suggest either trying to find a way to get a free repair/exchange/refund, or ditch them and buy something else.
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
I'm forever fulminating against this lightweight gear fad (usually get plenty of dislikes for it too!). It has its place- backpacking in particular- but my Aspira trousers of ancient vintage have stood up to everything thrown at them with no tears or holes yet. Older Cascadas also seemed to last well to go by pairs owned by friends. I wonder if Paramo, like many other makers, have fallen into the trap of equating 'good' with 'light'?
I'm forever fulminating against this lightweight gear fad (usually get plenty of dislikes for it too!). It has its place- backpacking in particular- but my Aspira trousers of ancient vintage have stood up to everything thrown at them with no tears or holes yet. Older Cascadas also seemed to last well to go by pairs owned by friends. I wonder if Paramo, like many other makers, have fallen into the trap of equating 'good' with 'light'?
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
Hi.
I'll second the suggestion that you take your money to another supplier...
I've had my Cascada coat since 1999. After 18 years of UK summers & winters the whole thing is finally fraying. it's had new velcro & new elastic and that's all. The matching trousers fell apart three years ago (heavily patched seat and one new leg zip).
On the other hand, the replacement Cascada trousers are cut completely differently so they were a tad short of space where it really counts (unisex = cost-cutting design). The knee ripped and a seam popped within a year ( = cost cutting materials).
I guess quality has plummeted. I was about to buy another Cascada coat but having read your post I guess I'm not alone. I'll be looking around too.
Regards,
D
Hi.
I'll second the suggestion that you take your money to another supplier...
I've had my Cascada coat since 1999. After 18 years of UK summers & winters the whole thing is finally fraying. it's had new velcro & new elastic and that's all. The matching trousers fell apart three years ago (heavily patched seat and one new leg zip).
On the other hand, the replacement Cascada trousers are cut completely differently so they were a tad short of space where it really counts (unisex = cost-cutting design). The knee ripped and a seam popped within a year ( = cost cutting materials).
I guess quality has plummeted. I was about to buy another Cascada coat but having read your post I guess I'm not alone. I'll be looking around too.
Regards,
D
Post edited at 16:54
In reply to Emily_pipes:
How did you pay for it? I never pay for expensive items with cash these days, if you used a debit or credit card, you have evidence of purchase.
How did you pay for it? I never pay for expensive items with cash these days, if you used a debit or credit card, you have evidence of purchase.
In reply to Emily_pipes:
The thing about the whole 'proof of purchase' etc. stuff is that technically none of that applies to the manufacturer, unless you bought it directly from them. When it comes to your legal rights, they are with the retailer, not the manufacturer. So technically you would take your item to wherever you bought it, and the retailer would then decide whether to a) contact the manufacturer for repair, b) replace it, or c) refund you.
In recent years more and more manufacturers have taken to accepting warranty requests from customers directly, but that doesn't change the fact that technically you'd have to go through the retailer. And it also means that if Paramo themselves are refusing to honour your warranty, you are still able to go to the retailer.
The thing about the whole 'proof of purchase' etc. stuff is that technically none of that applies to the manufacturer, unless you bought it directly from them. When it comes to your legal rights, they are with the retailer, not the manufacturer. So technically you would take your item to wherever you bought it, and the retailer would then decide whether to a) contact the manufacturer for repair, b) replace it, or c) refund you.
In recent years more and more manufacturers have taken to accepting warranty requests from customers directly, but that doesn't change the fact that technically you'd have to go through the retailer. And it also means that if Paramo themselves are refusing to honour your warranty, you are still able to go to the retailer.
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In reply to The New NickB:
I bought them on my OH's Go Outdoors card. He says Go Outdoors should have a record of it. Apparently they won't do anything themselves but will send them to the manufacturer. I was hoping to cut out the middle man.
A refund would be nice at this stage -- then acquiring something less delicate.
I bought them on my OH's Go Outdoors card. He says Go Outdoors should have a record of it. Apparently they won't do anything themselves but will send them to the manufacturer. I was hoping to cut out the middle man.
A refund would be nice at this stage -- then acquiring something less delicate.
Post edited at 17:23
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
Go to Go Outdoors, the obligation is with them.
> I bought them on my OH's Go Outdoors card. He says Go Outdoors should have a record of it. Apparently they won't do anything themselves but will send them to the manufacturer. I was hoping to cut out the middle man.A refund would be nice at this stage -- then acquiring something less delicate.
Go to Go Outdoors, the obligation is with them.
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
In that case you could contact Go Outdoors - if they consider the damage to fall under warranty, then they will deal with it, even if Paramo doesn't agree with them.
Alternatively, if they agree that it is a warranty case and agree to have it repaired, but you would prefer another product, you could probably tell them that you have lost faith in the item, but would like to purchase another pair of trousers from them, and suggest they just subtract the price of the Paramos from whatever new pair you are buying.
Who knows, might work
In that case you could contact Go Outdoors - if they consider the damage to fall under warranty, then they will deal with it, even if Paramo doesn't agree with them.
Alternatively, if they agree that it is a warranty case and agree to have it repaired, but you would prefer another product, you could probably tell them that you have lost faith in the item, but would like to purchase another pair of trousers from them, and suggest they just subtract the price of the Paramos from whatever new pair you are buying.
Who knows, might work
In reply to Emily_pipes:
Tell them that you're going to Feckbook the feckers and that you are a guide with lots of guide friends!
Tell them that you're going to Feckbook the feckers and that you are a guide with lots of guide friends!
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
Go Outdoors will be able to trace your transaction through the discount card assuming you have a rough date of purchase (just the month will probably do). Also they should return them fairly easily as after one season they should still be under guarantee through the store. It is fairly usual to be handed an item to exchange so that should be fine as well.
Go Outdoors will be able to trace your transaction through the discount card assuming you have a rough date of purchase (just the month will probably do). Also they should return them fairly easily as after one season they should still be under guarantee through the store. It is fairly usual to be handed an item to exchange so that should be fine as well.
In reply to Francisr5811: ...I'm trying to work out whether there is anything I can do or
I have used that Gorilla glue on a few things, the hardest of the uses I have experienced is shoe soles which had parted from the uppers for walking through fairly rough ground (similar to moorland tufts) & it has never budged, I would have more confidence one of their glues than anything else I know.
I have used that Gorilla glue on a few things, the hardest of the uses I have experienced is shoe soles which had parted from the uppers for walking through fairly rough ground (similar to moorland tufts) & it has never budged, I would have more confidence one of their glues than anything else I know.
In reply to Emily_pipes:
I've not noticed any decline in quality. In your place I'd return for a replacement and give them another go.
I've not noticed any decline in quality. In your place I'd return for a replacement and give them another go.
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In reply to Simon Caldwell:
I don't know if I just got unlucky with a bad batch. The stitching coming undone along the seams is worrying. If this is going to be a regular issue, fixing them after every season is going to get old fast. My friends who use them were surprised -- they'd never seen them do that before, but they all have older ones. Either way, I'll see what I can wrangle out of Go Outdoors.
I'm open to suggestions for winter mountaineering trousers that have sizes fitting petite females. That was the main attraction of the Paramos.
I don't know if I just got unlucky with a bad batch. The stitching coming undone along the seams is worrying. If this is going to be a regular issue, fixing them after every season is going to get old fast. My friends who use them were surprised -- they'd never seen them do that before, but they all have older ones. Either way, I'll see what I can wrangle out of Go Outdoors.
I'm open to suggestions for winter mountaineering trousers that have sizes fitting petite females. That was the main attraction of the Paramos.
In reply to Emily_pipes:
Decathlon/Simond seem to have very decent, affordable mountaineering trousers. In my experience (with baselayers and fleece, not trousers) their sizes are always on the small side, i.e. I'm wearing Decathlon Ms where usually I would go for S.
So you could give them a shot. Their alpinism softshells seem to be universally adored around this forum
> I'm open to suggestions for winter mountaineering trousers that have sizes fitting petite females. That was the main attraction of the Paramos.
Decathlon/Simond seem to have very decent, affordable mountaineering trousers. In my experience (with baselayers and fleece, not trousers) their sizes are always on the small side, i.e. I'm wearing Decathlon Ms where usually I would go for S.
So you could give them a shot. Their alpinism softshells seem to be universally adored around this forum
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
''Go Outdoors wont refund''
WONT???????????????...they have no darned choice, the goods were not fit for purpose or suitable for purpose intended..the HAVE to give you a refund in full >thats the law
Which Guidelines
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/l/returns-and-refunds?gclid=CJ-xuJuS...
''Go Outdoors wont refund''
WONT???????????????...they have no darned choice, the goods were not fit for purpose or suitable for purpose intended..the HAVE to give you a refund in full >thats the law
Which Guidelines
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/l/returns-and-refunds?gclid=CJ-xuJuS...
Post edited at 20:22
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In reply to Removed UserAvaunt:
Where in her posts does she say that 'Go Outdoors wont refund' ?
She said that Go Outdoors will not do anything themselves but would return the items to the supplier for their opinion. Thats quite different to refusing to refund the goods. Until she has actually tried returning the items to Go Outdoors its all rather speculative.
Where in her posts does she say that 'Go Outdoors wont refund' ?
She said that Go Outdoors will not do anything themselves but would return the items to the supplier for their opinion. Thats quite different to refusing to refund the goods. Until she has actually tried returning the items to Go Outdoors its all rather speculative.
Post edited at 20:28
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In reply to Removed UserAvaunt:
Yes, they have a 'darned choice', because what you describe is NOT the law. The law gives the retailer the choice to either a) repair (if possible), b) replace (with identical or equal item), or c) refund the customer.
They don't need to automatically refund you, any of the three options are THEIR choice.
> ''Go Outdoors wont refund''WONT???????????????...they have no darned choice, the goods were not fit for purpose or suitable for purpose intended..the HAVE to give you a refund in full >thats the law
Yes, they have a 'darned choice', because what you describe is NOT the law. The law gives the retailer the choice to either a) repair (if possible), b) replace (with identical or equal item), or c) refund the customer.
They don't need to automatically refund you, any of the three options are THEIR choice.
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In reply to leon 1:
Quote: ...Where in her posts does she say that 'Go Outdoors wont refund' ?
She said that Go Outdoors will not do anything themselves
.
The retailer is responsible to the consumer, the contract was between 'Emily-pipes & the seller/retailer' & if you read again what Emily wrote and what you yourself quoted > she said that ''Go Outdoors will not do anything themselves''
Do you understand what is meant when someone says ''I am not/will not doing/do anything''?......
.
Quote: ...Where in her posts does she say that 'Go Outdoors wont refund' ?
She said that Go Outdoors will not do anything themselves
.
The retailer is responsible to the consumer, the contract was between 'Emily-pipes & the seller/retailer' & if you read again what Emily wrote and what you yourself quoted > she said that ''Go Outdoors will not do anything themselves''
Do you understand what is meant when someone says ''I am not/will not doing/do anything''?......
.
Post edited at 20:46
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In reply to Removed UserAvaunt:
'She said that Go Outdoors will not do anything themselves'
But no one has as yet contacted Go Outdoors so how do you know this is the case ?.....
.
If you read it her quote in full was...
'Apparently they won't do anything themselves but will send them to the manufacturer'
The manufacturer can then advise the retailer if the fault is genuine and what their course of action could be. It is then up to the retailer to decide what action they wish to take and how to proceed with it.
'She said that Go Outdoors will not do anything themselves'
But no one has as yet contacted Go Outdoors so how do you know this is the case ?.....
.
If you read it her quote in full was...
'Apparently they won't do anything themselves but will send them to the manufacturer'
The manufacturer can then advise the retailer if the fault is genuine and what their course of action could be. It is then up to the retailer to decide what action they wish to take and how to proceed with it.
Post edited at 21:10
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In reply to leon 1:
Her quote in full was.....
Yes I know about that, she bought it last Nov, it seems to have lasted just over 3 months, how much of the 3 months was wearing time is probably a lot shorter than 3 months, >>>>>again her contract is with the seller
The potential problem is that she must have proof of some sort that she bought it from go outdooors, they may be playing on that if they think/know she has no proof of purchase there.
Her quote in full was.....
Yes I know about that, she bought it last Nov, it seems to have lasted just over 3 months, how much of the 3 months was wearing time is probably a lot shorter than 3 months, >>>>>again her contract is with the seller
The potential problem is that she must have proof of some sort that she bought it from go outdooors, they may be playing on that if they think/know she has no proof of purchase there.
Post edited at 21:22
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In reply to Removed UserAvaunt:
'The potential problem is that she must have proof of some sort that she bought it from go outdooors, they may be playing on that if they think/know she has no proof of purchase there.'
- She hasn't as yet contacted Go Outdoors so its doubtful if theyre playing on anything yet !
However Go Outdoors will have a copy of the transaction on their system if their discount card was used. Ive returned stuff to them and it was surprisingly efficient.
>>>>>again her contract is with the seller
The retailer is entitled to return the goods to the manufacturer for their advice on the fault and how they should proceed with the return.
'The potential problem is that she must have proof of some sort that she bought it from go outdooors, they may be playing on that if they think/know she has no proof of purchase there.'
- She hasn't as yet contacted Go Outdoors so its doubtful if theyre playing on anything yet !
However Go Outdoors will have a copy of the transaction on their system if their discount card was used. Ive returned stuff to them and it was surprisingly efficient.
>>>>>again her contract is with the seller
The retailer is entitled to return the goods to the manufacturer for their advice on the fault and how they should proceed with the return.
Post edited at 21:39
In reply to leon 1:
If there are signs the product (any product) has been misused & >>as a result
If there are signs the product (any product) has been misused & >>as a result
Post edited at 21:44
In reply to Removed UserAvaunt:Which is probably why Go Outdoors would send the goods back to the manufacturer to see if the manufacturer thinks that the goods have been misused or not.
The manufacturer is better placed to inspect and comment on misuse of items than the average GO shop staff.
Dear Emily Please take these trousers back to Go and end this saga
The manufacturer is better placed to inspect and comment on misuse of items than the average GO shop staff.
Dear Emily Please take these trousers back to Go and end this saga
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In reply to leon 1:
I'll get to it in the next week or two.
My OH took some Meindl approach shoes back to Go Outdoors because they had gotten some holes in the leather. Go Outdoors returned them to Meindl, who repaired them. The whole process took about six weeks.
So I guess the jury will be out on whether or not I can talk them into a refund. I had the impression that Paramos were ideal for winter mountaineering, but if they get holes anytime you look at rock, I suppose not.
The Decathlon softshells don't fit me at all. I'm open to other suggestions!
I'll get to it in the next week or two.
My OH took some Meindl approach shoes back to Go Outdoors because they had gotten some holes in the leather. Go Outdoors returned them to Meindl, who repaired them. The whole process took about six weeks.
So I guess the jury will be out on whether or not I can talk them into a refund. I had the impression that Paramos were ideal for winter mountaineering, but if they get holes anytime you look at rock, I suppose not.
The Decathlon softshells don't fit me at all. I'm open to other suggestions!
In reply to Emily_pipes:
They don't get along very well with ice screws either...
> I had the impression that Paramos were ideal for winter mountaineering, but if they get holes anytime you look at rock, I suppose not.
They don't get along very well with ice screws either...
In reply to Emily_pipes:
The return process depends very much on the supplier/manufacturers efficiency as well. I returned a jacket to Go on a Friday. They returned it to Mountain Equipment where it was inspected and a replacement sent back out on the Tuesday for me to collect on the Thursday (or in this case I got a refund due to loss of confidence in the product - it was a proofing issue, something that the Go staff wouldnt have been able to identify, so reasonable enough to send the jacket off for manufacturers inspection)
Many tales around of Paramo blaming the customer for any misuse so be prepared to argue your case.
Good luck with it.
The return process depends very much on the supplier/manufacturers efficiency as well. I returned a jacket to Go on a Friday. They returned it to Mountain Equipment where it was inspected and a replacement sent back out on the Tuesday for me to collect on the Thursday (or in this case I got a refund due to loss of confidence in the product - it was a proofing issue, something that the Go staff wouldnt have been able to identify, so reasonable enough to send the jacket off for manufacturers inspection)
Many tales around of Paramo blaming the customer for any misuse so be prepared to argue your case.
Good luck with it.
Post edited at 13:34
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
I've not found anything clothing-wise that gets along too well with ice screws tbh...
> They don't get along very well with ice screws either...
I've not found anything clothing-wise that gets along too well with ice screws tbh...
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
It probably depends on what you class as winter walking/mountaineering and how much scrambling/bum sliding or whatever you're doing. If you're scrambling on gabbro then I can see how you'll get a lot of holes in them.
For winter climbing/mountaineering (where I'm intending my crampons to be on much of the day and I will be using my hands, one / two axes and or rope + gear etc) then I use Aspiras. These are much heavier duty than the Cascada and will stand up to a lot more abuse. They are not immune to crampon incidents or ice screw punctures but it takes a lot more to damage them as they have re-enforced knees/backside/crampon patches.
For most winter walking over the last 10 years I've used either the older model of Cascadas or Velez adventure trousers. The Velez adventure trousers are similar in weight + durability (actually possibly flimsier) to the new version of the Cascada that you have. I've had mine nearly 4 years and they are still in good condition. When winter walking I'll usually only have my crampons on for shortish sections of the whole day and I'm usually not doing much scrambling/sitting on/sliding down rocks/snow etc.
Perhaps I've been lucky but so far the only large holes my Paramo trousers have obtained have been caused by me puncturing them with crampons.
FWIW, I will happily bum slide wearing the Aspiras but not with the Cascada/Velez adventure trousers as the material simply doesn't seem robust enough. I could certainly envisage bum sliding to cause the stitching to come apart in the lighter weight models.
Fingers crossed Go Outdoors can resolve things for you
> I had the impression that Paramos were ideal for winter mountaineering, but if they get holes anytime you look at rock, I suppose not.
It probably depends on what you class as winter walking/mountaineering and how much scrambling/bum sliding or whatever you're doing. If you're scrambling on gabbro then I can see how you'll get a lot of holes in them.
For winter climbing/mountaineering (where I'm intending my crampons to be on much of the day and I will be using my hands, one / two axes and or rope + gear etc) then I use Aspiras. These are much heavier duty than the Cascada and will stand up to a lot more abuse. They are not immune to crampon incidents or ice screw punctures but it takes a lot more to damage them as they have re-enforced knees/backside/crampon patches.
For most winter walking over the last 10 years I've used either the older model of Cascadas or Velez adventure trousers. The Velez adventure trousers are similar in weight + durability (actually possibly flimsier) to the new version of the Cascada that you have. I've had mine nearly 4 years and they are still in good condition. When winter walking I'll usually only have my crampons on for shortish sections of the whole day and I'm usually not doing much scrambling/sitting on/sliding down rocks/snow etc.
Perhaps I've been lucky but so far the only large holes my Paramo trousers have obtained have been caused by me puncturing them with crampons.
FWIW, I will happily bum slide wearing the Aspiras but not with the Cascada/Velez adventure trousers as the material simply doesn't seem robust enough. I could certainly envisage bum sliding to cause the stitching to come apart in the lighter weight models.
Fingers crossed Go Outdoors can resolve things for you
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
Hi there, very sorry to hear of the issues you have had with your Cascada trousers. If you would like to send an email to info@paramo.co.uk we can arrange with you, getting them back here for us to inspect.
Hope this is helpful.
Hi there, very sorry to hear of the issues you have had with your Cascada trousers. If you would like to send an email to info@paramo.co.uk we can arrange with you, getting them back here for us to inspect.
Hope this is helpful.
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In reply to HotBadger:
I've been in contact via that email address (that was my first port of call) but was advised that I'd have to pay for repairs as I didn't register them and didn't have a receipt. Hence this thread. It should be on Go Outdoors' computer because I used a discount card, but I'll have to go into the store anyway to get that info.
Given that the turnaround time, as stated on the website, is 4-6 weeks, I'm not really able to send them in until winter is over.
I've been in contact via that email address (that was my first port of call) but was advised that I'd have to pay for repairs as I didn't register them and didn't have a receipt. Hence this thread. It should be on Go Outdoors' computer because I used a discount card, but I'll have to go into the store anyway to get that info.
Given that the turnaround time, as stated on the website, is 4-6 weeks, I'm not really able to send them in until winter is over.
In reply to Emily_pipes:
If you want to send them to Páramo when you have finished the season for us to take a look at we will happily do so and assess them then. If you can obtain proof of purchase from Go that will show that they were bought as a first that will help if they are found to be faulty.
Many Thanks.
If you want to send them to Páramo when you have finished the season for us to take a look at we will happily do so and assess them then. If you can obtain proof of purchase from Go that will show that they were bought as a first that will help if they are found to be faulty.
Many Thanks.
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
4 to 6 weeks for a turnaround/assesment to be done by Paramo ? That seems really very poor with no real customer 'service' being offered there.
Hotbadger- is the turnaround time really that long on faulty items/repairs ?
Emily,perhaps consider Mountain Equipment next time. At least if things go wrong they will rectify it quickly.
4 to 6 weeks for a turnaround/assesment to be done by Paramo ? That seems really very poor with no real customer 'service' being offered there.
Hotbadger- is the turnaround time really that long on faulty items/repairs ?
Emily,perhaps consider Mountain Equipment next time. At least if things go wrong they will rectify it quickly.
Post edited at 16:29
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In reply to leon 1:
4 to 6 weeks is our quoted maximum turnaround time for chargeable repairs or alterations. We would normally expect to assess garments within 1-2 days of receipt.
4 to 6 weeks is our quoted maximum turnaround time for chargeable repairs or alterations. We would normally expect to assess garments within 1-2 days of receipt.
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
Update:
I finally got around to taking the trousers back to Go Outdoors yesterday. I had a Monty Python-esque conversation with the manager, wherein he pointed out the damage to the fabric and Gore-Tex patches on the bum, from glissading and some technical bump sliding on rock, and said, "How do I know that the damage to the seams on the side didn't occur at the same time as this." I said, "It didn't." He said, "I don't know that." I said, "I'm telling you." He repeated, "But I don't know that. The damage could have occurred at the same time." I said, "It didn't. And the seams shouldn't rip like that." He said, "It's already damaged." I said, "That's the problem." He said, "It's not eligible for refund because it's damaged. The best I can do is send them to the manufacturer." I said, "Fine." He added, "They might sew the seams along the side but it's damaged on the rear and they may not fix that." I pointed out, "The seams are stretching in a few areas on the sides and they will break sooner or later" He said, "But I don't know when that damage occurred." I said, "Every time I use them." He said, "I don't know that."
This discussion continued for some time. Then he grumbled, "As a goodwill gesture, I'll send them to Paramo."
He looked up partner's discount card on the computer and said, "There's no record of this on the discount card." I replied that I would not have bought them without the card, because they are not cheap. He said, "There's no record of this." Then OH, who bought some Nepals from Go Outdoors at roughly the same time, asked if there were any records of that purchase. None. OH pointed out that he had priced-matched the Nepals and you need a discount card to do that. And also, why the hell would you not get as much off expensive boots as you can? Of course he used the card. Manager said, "There are no Nepals on this card." He found purchases going as far back as 2013, but all for more trivial, less expensive stuff, and a gap in the record for the Nepals and Paramos. He added, "This is why you should keep receipts." OH responded, "One of the reasons I have the discount card is so I don't have to."
Somewhere there was a cock-up with their computer system.
At least the manager still sent the Paramos in because OH and I made it clear we were going to stand there and argue about it.
The verdict: the Paramos are on their way back, I bought some ME G2s from Joe Brown's in Wales when we were down there a few weeks ago (having the view that even if they fixed the Paramos, the things were just going to get more holes in five minutes), Go Outdoors suck at customer service but have their own version of the Dead Parrot sketch, and their computer system is useless. The jury is still out on what the ultimate fate of the Paramos will be.
Update:
I finally got around to taking the trousers back to Go Outdoors yesterday. I had a Monty Python-esque conversation with the manager, wherein he pointed out the damage to the fabric and Gore-Tex patches on the bum, from glissading and some technical bump sliding on rock, and said, "How do I know that the damage to the seams on the side didn't occur at the same time as this." I said, "It didn't." He said, "I don't know that." I said, "I'm telling you." He repeated, "But I don't know that. The damage could have occurred at the same time." I said, "It didn't. And the seams shouldn't rip like that." He said, "It's already damaged." I said, "That's the problem." He said, "It's not eligible for refund because it's damaged. The best I can do is send them to the manufacturer." I said, "Fine." He added, "They might sew the seams along the side but it's damaged on the rear and they may not fix that." I pointed out, "The seams are stretching in a few areas on the sides and they will break sooner or later" He said, "But I don't know when that damage occurred." I said, "Every time I use them." He said, "I don't know that."
This discussion continued for some time. Then he grumbled, "As a goodwill gesture, I'll send them to Paramo."
He looked up partner's discount card on the computer and said, "There's no record of this on the discount card." I replied that I would not have bought them without the card, because they are not cheap. He said, "There's no record of this." Then OH, who bought some Nepals from Go Outdoors at roughly the same time, asked if there were any records of that purchase. None. OH pointed out that he had priced-matched the Nepals and you need a discount card to do that. And also, why the hell would you not get as much off expensive boots as you can? Of course he used the card. Manager said, "There are no Nepals on this card." He found purchases going as far back as 2013, but all for more trivial, less expensive stuff, and a gap in the record for the Nepals and Paramos. He added, "This is why you should keep receipts." OH responded, "One of the reasons I have the discount card is so I don't have to."
Somewhere there was a cock-up with their computer system.
At least the manager still sent the Paramos in because OH and I made it clear we were going to stand there and argue about it.
The verdict: the Paramos are on their way back, I bought some ME G2s from Joe Brown's in Wales when we were down there a few weeks ago (having the view that even if they fixed the Paramos, the things were just going to get more holes in five minutes), Go Outdoors suck at customer service but have their own version of the Dead Parrot sketch, and their computer system is useless. The jury is still out on what the ultimate fate of the Paramos will be.
Post edited at 12:15
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
Years back I worked for Go outdoors and found that sometimes when cards were renewed a second record was created for the same name meaning that when looking through purchase histories there appeared to be missing records because they were bought on the other account.
Regarding the actions of the shop manager, surely you must understand where he's coming from a bit, if there is an item that looks like it's had a hard life and he's going to be coughing up for the return postage etc. it is a business after all.
Fingers crossed paramo sort you out.
Years back I worked for Go outdoors and found that sometimes when cards were renewed a second record was created for the same name meaning that when looking through purchase histories there appeared to be missing records because they were bought on the other account.
Regarding the actions of the shop manager, surely you must understand where he's coming from a bit, if there is an item that looks like it's had a hard life and he's going to be coughing up for the return postage etc. it is a business after all.
Fingers crossed paramo sort you out.
7
In reply to Emily_pipes:
I'm not sliding down mountains here -- just doing normal hillwalking stuff.
wherein he pointed out the damage to the fabric and Gore-Tex patches on the bum, from glissading and some technical bump sliding on rock,
Isn't glissading sliding down mountains? Or are you meaning glissading as in the ballet move?
I'm not sliding down mountains here -- just doing normal hillwalking stuff.
wherein he pointed out the damage to the fabric and Gore-Tex patches on the bum, from glissading and some technical bump sliding on rock,
Isn't glissading sliding down mountains? Or are you meaning glissading as in the ballet move?
Post edited at 20:13
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In reply to gethin_allen:
Given that Go Outdoors is owned by JD Sports, who apparently made £77.4m in pre-tax profits from January to July 2016, I really don't think the cost of postage is a significant drop in the ocean here.
Glissading on some snow was a reasonable thing to do on a winter hill -- something I expect winter hillwaking trousers to cope with. In any case, the seams coming apart for no reason was more of a concern.
Rightly or wrongly, I'll no doubt be getting them back and they'll be expensive barn trousers.
Given that Go Outdoors is owned by JD Sports, who apparently made £77.4m in pre-tax profits from January to July 2016, I really don't think the cost of postage is a significant drop in the ocean here.
Glissading on some snow was a reasonable thing to do on a winter hill -- something I expect winter hillwaking trousers to cope with. In any case, the seams coming apart for no reason was more of a concern.
Rightly or wrongly, I'll no doubt be getting them back and they'll be expensive barn trousers.
Post edited at 12:07
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
The sports direct group is massive so £77 mill (the guardian say 72 ish) pre tax isn't crazy and this is a massive drop from the previous year. You get cheap prices by cutting margins and overheads, one of these overheads is service, so if you want top notch yes madam no madam service go independent and pay the premium.
>Glissading on some snow was a reasonable thing to do on a winter hill -- something I expect winter hillwaking trousers to cope with.
Paramo do not claim the trousers to be winter trousers only walking trousers, so glisading/sliding on your arse down a hill probably isn't what they are designed for; I don't really think any trousers are designed for this.
Considering how soft and stretchy paramo materials are I wouldn't have assumed they are very robust at all and at circa £90 for the trousers they aren't the most expensive waterproofs, if you were buying £250 arcteryx alphas that are billed as being tough as nails mountaineering gear then fair enough but complaining that a soft lightweight £90 trouser is damaged by arse sliding is a bit much.
> Given that Go Outdoors is owned by JD Sports, who apparently made £77.4m in pre-tax profits from January to July 2016, I really don't think the cost of postage is a significant drop in the ocean here.
The sports direct group is massive so £77 mill (the guardian say 72 ish) pre tax isn't crazy and this is a massive drop from the previous year. You get cheap prices by cutting margins and overheads, one of these overheads is service, so if you want top notch yes madam no madam service go independent and pay the premium.
>Glissading on some snow was a reasonable thing to do on a winter hill -- something I expect winter hillwaking trousers to cope with.
Paramo do not claim the trousers to be winter trousers only walking trousers, so glisading/sliding on your arse down a hill probably isn't what they are designed for; I don't really think any trousers are designed for this.
Considering how soft and stretchy paramo materials are I wouldn't have assumed they are very robust at all and at circa £90 for the trousers they aren't the most expensive waterproofs, if you were buying £250 arcteryx alphas that are billed as being tough as nails mountaineering gear then fair enough but complaining that a soft lightweight £90 trouser is damaged by arse sliding is a bit much.
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In reply to Gethin
Go Outdoors is owned by JD Sports (also own Blacks), which is a subsidiary of Pentland (?). Nothing to do with Sports Direct.
Paramo? Save your money, buy some thing else.
Go Outdoors is owned by JD Sports (also own Blacks), which is a subsidiary of Pentland (?). Nothing to do with Sports Direct.
Paramo? Save your money, buy some thing else.
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In reply to gethin_allen:
The Guardian reported a rise in profits. Also, as stated below, they are a different corporation than Sports Direct.
The internet billed them as winter trousers and friends I know who have old ones and do more serious winter climbs than me haven't had a problem. As I said before, the seams along the sides ripping had nothing to do with the single, short glissade I did this winter (because for the most part, there was no winter, so I was mostly walking in not winter). If it only had damage from that, well, fair enough.
I always prefer to go independent or at least use Costwolds or Tiso, but none of those shops in this city had winter-ish trousers for short females.
The Guardian reported a rise in profits. Also, as stated below, they are a different corporation than Sports Direct.
The internet billed them as winter trousers and friends I know who have old ones and do more serious winter climbs than me haven't had a problem. As I said before, the seams along the sides ripping had nothing to do with the single, short glissade I did this winter (because for the most part, there was no winter, so I was mostly walking in not winter). If it only had damage from that, well, fair enough.
I always prefer to go independent or at least use Costwolds or Tiso, but none of those shops in this city had winter-ish trousers for short females.
In reply to radar:
Sorry, primary school comprehension issues, scrap the first bit, the second bit about the size of the company still stands.
Sorry, primary school comprehension issues, scrap the first bit, the second bit about the size of the company still stands.
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In reply to Emily_pipes:
Finally an update. Paramo says it's not a manufacturing fault and they will charge me £38 for the repair. Given I probably can't sell them for much more, I don't think it's worth that.
Finally an update. Paramo says it's not a manufacturing fault and they will charge me £38 for the repair. Given I probably can't sell them for much more, I don't think it's worth that.
In reply to Emily_pipes:
Talking to these people in a detailed way about what you're after may prove fruitful? More than the cost of replacements though.
http://www.halkonhunt.com/clothing/gore-tex-overtrousers
Talking to these people in a detailed way about what you're after may prove fruitful? More than the cost of replacements though.
http://www.halkonhunt.com/clothing/gore-tex-overtrousers
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