UKC

Last year I went up Tryfan North Ridge a couple of times, and whilst finding it relatively easy going I got a real taste for scrambling, so this year I plan to do at least one weekend a month scrambling somewhere hopefully awesome. I live in the midlands so can get pretty much anywhere in England/Wales easily enough.

Some tips on good routes where I could fit a few in on a weekend would be much appreciated, as I prefer experienced advice to whatever Google throws at me, and I'm happy to do all grades

The likes of Pinnacle Ridge, Elbow Ridge, Crib Goch and other routes up Tryfan are already on my list, but the more options I have the better!

Cheers for any help :]

In reply to Malaka:

Snowdonia is an obvious place to return to. If you base yourself in the Ogwen Valley then you have a whole range of scrambles of various grades, many of which you can link.

East Face of Tryfan is a good place to focus - Bastow Buttress (2/3), Nor Nor Groove (1/2), and North Buttress Variant (2) are all worthwile. Nor Nor Buttress Variant (3) is supposed to be good but I've not done it. After that you can go down the S Ridge and continue on to Glyder Fach, either via Bristly Ridge (1) or by something on the main cliff - Main Gully is the easiest (grade 1, but generally reckoned to be a bit harder) but there are plenty of harder routes. Finish the day by down-scrambling Y Gribin and the False Gribin.

There are some good routes in Cwm Idwal. Direct Approach to Seniors Ridge, Idwal Staircase and NW Face Route are all g2, and are all enjoyable. Continue afterwards up Seniors Ridge (1) or Cneifion Arete (3). The East Ridge of Y Garn (2) is interesting but doesn't lend itself to link-ups very well.

Llanberis Pass is worth a look too. Llechog Ridge (2) is something a bit different and off the beaten track, and difficulties are mostly avoidable.

In reply to Mike Peacock:

Sounds like they could easily fill up a couple of weekends, thank you very much!

In reply to Malaka:

If you fancy a change from North Wales, there are some superb scrambles in the Lake District

Helvellyn - up via Striding Edge and down via Swirral Edge

Blencathra - up via Sharp Edge and down via Halls Fell Ridge

Pavey Ark - up via Jack's Rake

Scafell - up via Broad Stand NB Although only classified as a scramble this is a serious accident prone route, and I wouldn't recommend soloing it unless you are comfortable at leading V Diff

Take care and enjoy!

In reply to Trangia:

Re Broad Stand. I'd say the crux is a weird 3c corner udge move that is easy to fluff or a 4a bold and balancy combination further left. and the consequencies of a slip when solo could be awful (people have bounced off the sloping ledge and taken a 20m (?) drop into the gully below.. It'd say its akin to soloing a VD in the conditions you find on the day.

In reply to Malaka:

Agreed re Broad Stand on Scafell, it's not to be taken lightly.

The Lakes has a huge amount of excellent scrambling, Cicerone produce a couple of useful guidebooks showing many of the routes. They'd be worth getting hold of.
A few memorable ones include:
Pinnacle ridge on Westmorland crag;
Pinnacle ridge on St.Sunday crag;
High level traverse of Great Gable and threading the Needle;
Cam crag ridge;
Jacks rake;

Another cracker, this time on Ill crag is: http://www.climb-scafell.co.uk/blog/category/ill-crag
There's a stack of photos / write ups on our blog here too: http://www.mountain-journeys.co.uk/blog

Worth mentioning that a rope may be useful for some of these.

Happy scrambling

In reply to Malaka:

Great Langdale in the Lake District is a scrambler's paradise. There are numerous quality scramble routes there of all grades and difficulties and most are reached by relatively short walk ins too.

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

Awesome, really appreciate the recommendations all, will be giving as many as I can a try from next month :]

In reply to Malaka:

Crib Lem Spur is up there with Tryfan North Ridge and Crub Goch.

North Wales is much better than The Lakes. Scotland is amazing and endless...

If you're in the Peak District, Crowden Clough, Grindsbrook (right variation) and Wildboar Clough are fun but not as good as the above.

In reply to Malaka:

If you fancy something completely different then try the sea level scrambles here in Guernsey, they're good fun.

In reply to Offwidth:


Broad Stand is simply not worth the bother. You're looking at a minimum 2.5 to 3 hour walk in for 10 minutes of scrambling.

In reply to afx22:


Crib Lem isn't in the same league as Tryfan North Ridge but better than Crib Goch, which is really more of a ridge walk than a scramble.


As a seasoned scrambler, I can definitely say The Lakes is every bit as good as North Wales for scrambling.


Crowden and Wildboar are good but Grindsbrook is a bit dull.

In reply to Mark Eddy:

The Cam Crag scramble you recommend is to my mind the best sustained scramble in the Lakes, all the better for the short approach. The Ill Crag route we found disappointingly discontinuous however. We had to cross over into rock climbing to keep the momentum. Nothing wrong with the scenery though.

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:


I'm intrigued by this claim. If there's a route to rival the moves, holds and situations on Cneifion arête anywhere in the Lakes I'd like to know. Or a sustained ascent like Tryfan N Ridge. Or the intricacies of Bristly Ridge. Surely not Pinnacle Ridge (St Sunday) which is the closest I can think of (for all of 20 metres)?

Name 3 to match that trio?

In reply to BnB:


I spent years scrambling in the Lakes and Snowdonia and there's heaps of fantastic scrambling in both - wouldn't say one is area is better than the other at all. Perhaps the Lakes has fewer scrambly ridges and is more about linking together smaller routes but there are so many great days out scrambling on the hills there it seems odd to draw a distinction.

My favourite expeditions in the Lakes include:

- Scafell Pike and Scafell from Eskdale via Pen and Broad Stand
- Gable via the Climber's Traverse, Sphinx Ridge and Westmorland Crag
- Grasmoor by Lorton Gully
- Langdale Pikes via the face of Pike O'Stickle and on to other scrambles on Harrison Stickle and Pavey

I haven't done the big Pillar Rock scramble (up Old West, down Slab and Notch) but that's a classic outing in amazing terrain.

In reply to BnB:


Well off the top of my head:

Chockstone Ridge to match "the moves, holds and situations on Cneifion arête"

Cockley Pike Ridge to match the "sustained ascent like Tryfan N Ridge"

Thor's Buttress to match "the intricacies of Bristly Ridge"

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:
I'll have to give those a try and report back. My climbing partner did however describe Cockley Pike Ridge as "dull and not worth the effort to reach it"!!

Great Blake Rigg on Grey Friar is good

In reply to BnB:

Cockley Pike ridge is well worth the effort with nothing about it being dull. The situation is wonderful as is the continuous scrambling interest.
Another long Lakes route to rival the big Snowdonia routes would be: Climbers traverse of Great Gable to Sphinx ridge following this to the base of Westmorland crag and finishing with Pinnacle ridge to the summit of Gable. Not too shabby a day.
I know what you mean re the other Ill crag route, discontinuous yes, but full of interest and route finding fun on some very good rock. But defo not a quick hit scramble.

In reply to BnB:


Well I suppose you need to do more than the popular touristy honeypots of Sharp Edge, Striding Edge, Jacks Rake and Pinnacle Ridge before you can consider yourself an expert in Lake District scrambles.


Put it this way, I am not a fan of long walk ins but I have still done Cockley Pike Ridge 7 or 8 times.

In reply to Mark Eddy:


Yes, I've done that one. I enjoyed it more for the history than the scrambling if truth be told. But it was a good varied day's mountaineering.

There are more 3 star scrambles on Tryfan alone than in the whole of the lakes! And I've lived in the Lakes 17 years on and off. Its not just the accessibility its the amount of rock and its quality and the continuous and aesthetic lines. Most lakes scrambles are contrived and escapable. That's not to say they aren't fun and there are some that would get 3*s in N. Wales but not many!
The lakes has better pubs though

In reply to Malaka:

I've not completely read through your replies however..
Bryant's Gully (Llanberis Pass) is a memorable day out, as is Cneifion Arete (Ogwen)
Both are grade 3S and roped protection is advisable

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

Those three are all good (particularly Thor's Buttress), but I don't think they match the three Welsh ones for quality. Having done virtually all the routes in the Cicerone guides for both areas (plus lots not in them too, and many of them many times), I would say the Lakes doesn't have anywhere to match Ogwen for the sheer amount of quality scrambles (you have to go north of the border for that). Langdale has plenty of goodies and Upper Eskdale is such a brilliant place, but there's just more clean rock in Wales. Ogwen, Glencoe and Torridon top things for me, and then the Cuillin are out in a league of their own. Agree about the pubs though!

In reply to Iain Thow:

In my experience, Wales is better for ridge/rock scrambles, the Lake District is better for gill scrambles.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Agree with that. Have found nowhere with anywhere as many stream scrambles as the Lakes (although obviously there are some good ones in various places). I think Brian Evans says something similar in one of the guides.

In reply to Iain Thow:

Well that's a matter of opinion. I'm also a very seasoned scrambler. It's my favourite mountain related activity and I much prefer scrambling to rock climbing. I can only say I get every bit as much enjoyment scrambling in the Lakes as I do in North Wales.


I like Torridon but I don't find the scrambling there as good as in the Lakes. Torridon scrambles involve colossal walk ins and tend to consist of little pitches of up and down notches on level ridges. It's more about the positions and settings in Torridon rather than the quality or continuity of the scrambling in my book.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Wales is chock-full of good stream and gorge scrambles, it's just that few people know of them.

In reply to Mike Peacock:


Absolutely correct. Most people tend to go for the obvious honeypots of Tryfan, Bristly, Idwal and Cneifion and never get to many of the other quality scrambles in Sonwdonia.

In reply to Mike Peacock:


I did say "in my experience"
Bryant's Gully is one of my favourite scrambles anywhere, but I don't remember doing any others in Wales. Perhaps because Steve Ashton's guide is my main source of route information?

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

Yes, I'd take scrambling over rock climbing too if I had to choose (horrible idea), and certainly enjoy scrambling in the Lakes as much as anywhere else.
Would agree about positions and setting being important in Torridon too, but there are plenty of scrambles there that don't involve "colossal walk ins" or consist of little pitches on level ridges. Meall Ceann na Creige at Diabaig and An Groban have acres of quickly accessible good scrambling rock, with around 800 feet of height gain. Some of the routes around Gairloch and in the Bealach na Ba are virtually roadside, and even a mountain route like the South Ridge of Mullach an Rathain is only 40 minutes from the road. Admittedly with longer walk ins, Long Stroll Slab on Ruadh Stac Beag or the NW Buttress on Slioch don't lack for "quality and continuity" and there are plenty more goodies.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

To be fair that's still the best scrambling guide for Snowdonia. Garry Smith's North Wales Scrambles doesn't tread much new ground (though does have some excellent photos). The Ogwen CC guide has a scattering of forgotton climbs that have been downgraded to scrambles, and Scrambles and Easy Climbs has a few scrambles outside of the Ogwen/Llanberis area.

The streams and gorges that see most use are the ones the outdoor centres visit (e.g. Afon Ddu at Dolgarrog, Afon Prysor near Maentwrog), but there are a lot of really interesting ones that I've explored over the years that I suspect few people have ever ventured into. Gill scrambling seems well embedded within the culture of climbing/scrambling in Lakeland, but as far as I can tell that never was the case in Wales.

In reply to Mike Peacock:

Would be interested in any more off the beaten track suggestions. I've done the Dolgarrog one you mention and a couple nearby, but not the Maentwrog one, and I lived in Nant Gwynant for a while and did a few around there (Afon Merch was excellent but didn't find anything else much good). All opportunities to go somewhere new are welcome.

In reply to Iain Thow:
Yes, the Afon Merch is brilliant isn't it, possibly my favourite (and it goes on for ever). There are other good ones in Nant Gwynant (maybe 4, plus some other rubbish ones). The Prysor at Meantwrog is mainly (only?) done in descent I think. For a few off-the-beaten track suggestions:

There's the Geirionydd Gorge in Gwydyr Forest (which is actually reasonably well known). Short, best for an evening trip, but unique. It starts up a slab traverse (easy in the wet, tricky in the dry) but higher up the water flows out of a very short adit. You wade in then climb out the hole.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/2323774183/in/album-7215760567572...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5951330503/

As for bigger gorges, the classic is perhaps a traverse of Fairy Glen to Conwy Falls. Pretty serious - deep swims, interesting traverses, and I suppose legally access might be a bit dubious. From memory the traverse took us 4hrs or so.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5681253912/in/album-7215762645728...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5680692113/in/album-7215762645728...

The Afon Mawddach in the Coed y Brenin is suprisingly good in a non-traditional sense. You need low water, but it offers lots of traversing interspersed by walking, with a finale up Rhaeadr Mawddach.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/14273426642/in/album-721576444448...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/9284292057/in/album-7215762645728...
The nearby Afon Gamlan is also prime gorge scrambling terrain, but is home to sensitive bryophytes and CCW/NRW don't want people using it.

The Afon Cwmorthin at Tanygrisau is diverting, especially if you link it with the excellent scramble on the NE spur of Moel yr Hydd.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/4550288783/in/album-7215762380316...

I haven't really explored any streams/gorges south of Cadair Idris, but I have a long list of potential good ones that I hope to visit.

In reply to Mike Peacock:

Thanks Mike,
Have done the Geirionydd and Cwmorthin ones but Fairy Glen had never occurred to me and I don't know the Mawddach ones at all. From your pics the latter looks a bit like the one in Glen Tilt which was a Victorian via ferrata, but which the estate are trying to pretend doesn't exist. My Welsh trips are usually in winter so not sure about the swimming bits!
Cheers,
Iain

In reply to Iain Thow:


I probably need to do more in Torridon. I've only been up there twice and the second time was with a pair of obsessive rock climbers so I only managed a couple of days scrambling. I suppose my comments referred more to the classics, Liatach, Horns of Alligin, An Teallach etc. I have done the Ruadh Stac Beag route but unfortunately wasn't able to enjoy it that much as it was very wet and sketchy and I was just concentrating on staying safe.

In reply to Iain Thow:

No worries - there are loads more central ones too but as you asked for ones off the beaten track...

There should be a guidebook coming out this year focusing on streams and some other minor rocky scrambles, but I'd still love to spend a few weeks exploring the mid Wales streams. I think round the upper Dyfi Valley and on the edges of Pumlumon there could be some real classics.

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

Staying safe's obviously always a good idea, and wet quartzite's slippy stuff. I had a minor epic on one of the Foinaven ones when a heavy thunderstorm turned up while I was in the middle of a quartzite slab -150 foot to the edge in any direction and no friction, just had to follow the holds and hope they didn't run out. Distinctly scary.
Definitely put the Slioch one and RH Slabs on An Groban on your list when you get up there. Have fun

Mike - looking forward to the guidebook

This is turning out to be a very useful thread