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Advice resources for lost confidence

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 ParaDan 03 Mar 2017
Hi, so I am a comfortable 6A/HVS climber (6C on toprope) who started this game with a fear of heights (around a year Ago).
A few weeks back I went on an ice climbing course in Scotland aimed at getting rock climbers onto the ice. On the course I met two other nice guys who seemed more interested in winter walking than climbing but claimed they could climb none the less.
After a 30 min traversing session to get used to the technique we tied in and I opted for the second climb. One of the other guys put me on belay (without any issue) took up the slack and I started climbing. Once I reached the top I asked him to take in so I could come down. He seemed a little confused but I could see he had the rope so leaned back none the less. I felt myself plummiting to the ground before landing on my back with a sore head a little confused about what just happened. The mentor didnt really address the issue.
Long story short the entire session consisted of me climbing a few metres. Trying to get my belayer to take before giving up and down climbing.

Although I played it down It was quite a fall (enough to break my helmet) and it has stripped my confidence in roped climbing (leading me to feel nervous on most 5's with a comfort at grade 4 sport climbing.

I know everyone has mishaps like this but Im really struggling to regain my boldness and faith at height.

Im looking for advice in getting back to my grade or im looking for advice on books/resources to help me.

Thanks in advance guys
 rurp 04 Mar 2017
In reply to ParaDan:

Sounds like you used up one of your nine lives. You climbed with a stranger and trusted them to hold you and even when you had doubts after saying take you leaned back.
You work as a paramedic in a professional situation and are used to trusting your team. These feelings do not apply when climbing with strangers.
Climb with mates who you trust. If you need to, put two of them on the rope and get them to use an auto lock belay device.
Take small controlled falls at the wall.
When someone lowers you wait for the rope to go tight and hold the rope yourself to be sure.
Find some autobelays and jump off.
Rock warriors way and various articles here about irrational fear of falling.
But fear of climbing with incompetent numpties is real and does not need curing!
 Davidwi 04 Mar 2017
In reply to ParaDan:
Hi, surely the course instructor should have realised the 'students' lack of belay ability and addressed it. I think anyone would feel nervous after a ground fall, I've had one and for me I just went straight back up probably mostly powered by adrenaline. If I hadn't I'd have been in your situation. You need to find a trusted partner and get back on the horse!! Push back upto 6a, if your belayer is on the ball you shouldn't deck out again.

Best of luck with your climbing!!
Post edited at 08:18
 Mick Ward 04 Mar 2017
In reply to ParaDan:

> Im looking for advice in getting back to my grade or im looking for advice on books/resources to help me.

First off, forget about getting back to your grade. That will be entirely counter-productive. The more your conscious mind says, "Yes," the more your sub-conscious will say, "No!!!"

You're traumatised. When people are traumatised, they go through a trauma cycle, a bit like a grief cycle, trying to incorporate something nasty and ususual into their 'mental world'. Can take little time; usually takes weeks, months, perhaps even years.

You need to overlay the memories of the bad experience with good experiences. That means only climbing with fully supportive people in whom you have total confidence. It means not pushing yourself. It means having loads of fun days out.

If you do this, in time your sub-conscious (think of it as a guardian keeping you alive) will start to relax. The human spirit is flexible; people recover from all sorts of dire events (though admittedly not always). But, in my experience of climbing trauma - and it is personal experience also - if you overlay a bad experience with enough good experiences you will recover. And you will probably climb harder.

If you feel OK on 4s then do loads. Try and find quality ones. Same with quality V Diffs and Severes. When these grades start to feel boring, then it's time to check out the next grades up. But don't feel you're wasting your time on easy grades. Find nice routes. Think of climbing as a sensual experience - like a lovely meal.

Loads of people have come through climbing trauma. I have. You're not alone. I've never read anything about it but I do know what works.

Hope this helps. Feel free to email me at any time.

Mick
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 johncook 04 Mar 2017
In reply to ParaDan:

Avoid climbing with these guys again. Avoid recommending the group who were mentoring you. Always take great care with who you let belay you and never ever assume they know what they are doing! Many don't and their climbers have been very lucky.
To get over the anxiety is going to be hard and take some time. Find a belayer who you can trust. Climb easy stuff that at a push you could downclimb. Watch the belayer all the time as you climb. Don't weight the rope until they have put tension on it and have their hand in the brake position. Check again that they really have got you. After a while you will begin to trust the belayer, but do this with everyone who belays you. Once you have a trusted (pool of) belayer you can start pushing harder. It may be a slow process (or it may be quick) but let it take it's course.
I have climbed with people who I will, after the first couple of time, never let belay me again, as they are not focussed on their climber and/or their technique is iffy. I find out by leading a route I can solo and watching them carefully as I ascend. I have even untied from one and walked off the top rather than let them lower me.
Good luck, take it steady and it will all come back.
You will get some very good advice on this forum (and maybe some rubbish).
 planetmarshall 04 Mar 2017
In reply to rurp:

> But fear of climbing with incompetent numpties is real and does not need curing!

Indeed, but we don't really know what was the case here. I wish the OP all the best in regaining his confidence but assigning blame should wait until all the facts are known.

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 Rob Exile Ward 04 Mar 2017
In reply to ParaDan:

I'm a bit baffled. I assume you were top roping on an artificial ice wall? And you got dropped? You're lucky to be alive. Basic belaying isn't that hard a skill, you should have gone ballistic with your belayer, they nearly killed you; as should your 'mentor' - is that the same as instructor?

This is all a bit weird I'm afraid.
 FreshSlate 04 Mar 2017
In reply to ParaDan:

Is this thread for the BMC?
OP ParaDan 07 Mar 2017
Thanks for all of the advice guys.
I appreciate I shouldnt really trust a belayer I dont know. To be honest I entrusted in the mentor/trainer/instructor/whatever to ensure my safety which Im relatively confident I should be able to do. That said I did commit to a belay I had doubts over and I did lean back on a rope that wasnt tight (only a habit of getting so confident with other belayers). I know im partially at fault as is my belayer, as is the indoor ice wall and I have accepted and learnt from that, im here for the next step which is regaining my confidence.

OP ParaDan 07 Mar 2017
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

It is all abit weird and yes I was climbing on an artificial wall on top rope.
It was a course aimed at getting rock climbers climbing ice.

At the time we were all getting on great and After being dropped I was a little bit shocked but mostly kind of quite excited that I wasnt seriously hurt, therefore not angry (I know thats a strange concept, I crashed a motorbike at speed a few years and felt the same euphoria until I cane to terms with it).

It was only that evening when I was lying in bed that I really felt the sickening feeling (and those thoughts and feeling went on for a few days on and off).

I have put in an official complaint to the climbing centre, I believe they are having some sort of meeting or something. Im still waiting for feedback of any depth from them.
IM sorry if I didnt explain myself very well.
OP ParaDan 07 Mar 2017
In reply to Mick Ward:

Thanks Mick, this is really helpful. I have a good group of friends who are all attentive belayers that I can rely on. Im taking your advice and just enjoying my climbing without pushing myself into uncomfortable situations and to be fair its goin well.
The more people I speak to the more I realise that most people with a few years climbing experiance have had an epic and a setback of some kind. Its quite surprising hahaha.
Anyway, thanks heaps
OP ParaDan 07 Mar 2017
In reply to johncook:

Thanks matey, I think that im naturally more switched in regards to what my belayer is foing and that in itself is helping with confidence. That said im spotting that alot of the people who have been climbing longer are shite unattentive belayers yet criticising their technique seems to be a cardinal sin! Thats the other point im taking from this, be self critical and progressive even in the basics, especially belaying haha.
Thanks for the help 👍
 LakesWinter 07 Mar 2017
In reply to Mick Ward:

That's an awesome and really well expressed reply. You're totally right.

To the OP: I'm glad you're unhurt. You're right, being picky with belayers is really important, even if they're experienced. I just bluntly tell belayers what I want them to do, if they take offence then that's a shame but your well being and safety are more important than someone else's feelings.

I'm sure that by following Mick's advice you'll be able to get back into it and enjoy yourself climbing. Good luck and take it easy.
 Mick Ward 07 Mar 2017
In reply to ParaDan:

Well one might argue that you're not a true climber until you've got injuries and survived epics! But, although I've had relatively few injuries (charmed life), I've survived decades of dodgy moments when it could all have finished. And if I can spare others some of the pain...

Stick with your mates. If you climb with someone new and they're gung-ho, back off. You may (or may not) have bad days. You may (or may not) have panic attacks. If you do, concentrate on your breathing - deep and slow. Deep and slow. Deep and slow. Your professional training will doubtless help here.

It doesn't matter if you have bad days (actually we all do). Best to concentrate on getting used to things and then a trend of slowly getting better.

The good thing is that, post-trauma, you see things afresh, with a wisdom born of experience which wasn't there before.

If you ever have a bad feeling (literally) in your gut, unless you're committed, back off, just walk away. As the wisest of climbers noted aptly, "The route will be there next year; the trick is to make sure you are."

All best wishes,

Mick
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 johncook 08 Mar 2017
In reply to Mick Ward:

Just an aside from the real thread. For many years I wanted to climb the Bonnatti Pillar on the Dru. Started it several times and retreated/walked away for various reasons, mostly doubt by me or partners. Always with the comment "never mind it will still be there next year" Weelllll.........!
 Mick Ward 08 Mar 2017
In reply to johncook:

Well there's always an exception! When I first came to Cham and looked up at the Bonatti, I fell in love with it. Similarly never did it.

Conversely what if you'd overridden the doubt, not just on this route but on others? Would you still be here...

Mick
 Bones [:B 09 Mar 2017
In reply to Mick Ward:

This is really good advice. I consistently ignored similar advice from my boyfriend last year after a fall in May. I kept thinking I should be better, climbing harder etc but always walked away angry and frustrated. It was only once I decided to climb for pure enjoyment and take my time that I gradually started to feel good on climbs again. The main hurdle was not to compare myself to anyone else including my past or future self. I had a lot of support from all my climbing partners, especially my boyfriend who has supported me the whole way and now I feel like I can start to push it again.

Thanks so much for your advice Mick and I hope it helps Dan(?).
 Mick Ward 09 Mar 2017
In reply to Jen Jones:

> The main hurdle was not to compare myself to anyone else including my past or future self.

That's the core of it - not comparing!

I had a bad climbing accident in 1968. I went from being a highly promising beginner to a complete gibbering wreck. I didn't make the connection. I didn't realise I was traumatised. Nobody else realised it either. People - certainly in climbing - just didn't talk about trauma bad then. It took me years to recover.

In the mid-70s, after two bad years in my life (when I tried to 'climb through the pain' - didn't work very well!) I spent a long time soloing, particularly in the mountains in Ireland, on my own. There was nobody to bail me out. If I came off, nobody would even realise until someone came to the hut the following weekend. Even then, they might not realise. They would have no idea where to go looking for me. It was pretty much total commitment.

Because obviously every route might be my last, I had to listen to my subconscious simply to stay alive. It didn't matter how good I'd once been; that was gone. It didn't matter what I'd soloed yesterday; that was irrelevant. I had to live in the here and now - in the moment.

Every time I went against my subconscious, it was a mistake! There were some very harsh lessons. But 'manning up' with all the odds stacked against me just wasn't going to work. And, in truth, it rarely works.

More than anything, the human spirit is resilient. You recover. But the best way to recover is to be kind to yourself - and to listen to that inner voice - and to learn to trust it. Trusting it will also stand one in good stead in many arenas far removed from climbing.

Good luck with Dan and you Jen with recovery. In an odd way, it's very life-enhancing. Often you come out of recovery, stronger. Almost always you come out different - in a good way.

Mick
 johncook 09 Mar 2017
In reply to Mick Ward:

Probably why I am still here. Always go with the gut feeling and it has kept me good so far. Maybe I would have got up some harder routes, but maybe not. I am still a happy climber and have never been a grade chaser. I want to improve my grade because there are some lovely looking routes out there that are just a bit beyond me. But come the day!
 Mick Ward 09 Mar 2017
In reply to johncook:

Come the day for all of us - certainly for me there's some serious unfinished business.

But it's got to be right.

And only that inner voice can tell you finally and truthfully that it's right.

That's what I loved about Goucho on the Eiger - not just that he'd done it but - the third time - it had come right for him. The demons which had tormented him for decades were slain forever. He could go back down to the hotel, his wife, knowing that the darkness was finally over, celebrating a unique experience.

Mick
 BusyLizzie 09 Mar 2017
In reply to Mick Ward and all:

Lots of very thoughtful stuff on this thread, and great wisdom from Mick - thank you all, it has been a good read, and thank you to the OP and those who have shared their experiences.

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