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1x11 on a road(ish) bike?

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 andy 04 Mar 2017
Pondering a new bike for winter and maybe a bit of light off-road (tracks etc). Looking at CX bikes but have seen "gravel bikes" on a few websites, some of which come with 1x11 gearing. Standard seem to be a 42T chainring with a 11-36 cassette, which gives a similar range to a compact with 11-28 at the back, but obviously the jumps will be be a bit bigger.

I guess lots of people run 1x10 or 11 on MTB, but has anyone tried it with a CX or road bike? I have another bike (well, a few actually...) for summer with 52-36 and 11-28, but I'm sick of getting it covered in shit from the Warwickshire lanes I ride on during the week, and would quite like to do a bit of exploring.

Tyre-wise the new Schwalbe G-1 get very positive write ups as go-anywhere (within reason) tyre, so will probably run those on it whichever gearing I go for.

Thoughts?
 nufkin 04 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

I'd second your interest; the front derailleur on my old bike gave up and out of laziness I just used it almost as a single-speed. Having found that I don't much miss the extra gearing where I ride I thought a 1x system might be the thing for my next bike, though I have wondered if the jumps at the lower end of the gear range might be a bit extreme
OP andy 04 Mar 2017
In reply to nufkin: Looks like Rose Bikes are coming up favourite (again) with a carbon CX frame with 1x11 Force gears and hydro brakes for just over two grand, and (according to them) under 8kg.

 Wee Davie 04 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

I recently got a Planet X Kaffenback steel roadbike running SRAM Apex 1 x11 with hydro disc brakes. I like it- here's a bit more in depth info I wrote up. Hope it helps-

http://daviesdaysoff.blogspot.co.uk/
 jk25002 04 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

A couple of years ago I ditched the big ring on a winter bike. I now have 1x8, with 39T on the front and 11-30 on the back.

I didn't miss it on the winter bike - I think I only really used the top few gears in races. With the setup described above you can comfortably go 45km/h at a reasonable cadence. I'd be inclined to go for a slightly bigger ring (say, the 42T you mention), and something like a 15-36 cassette (though I think I'd struggle to find such a cassette).

Even with 8 speed 11-30 the increments aren't too bad. Remember people used to cope with just 5 gears (or 1 if you think back far enough), and also, it's just a winter bike...
 The Potato 04 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:
im 1x9 on my full sus and hardtail bikes, no regrets (12-36 and oval 32T), recently moved from a triple to double on my road bike (2x9 11-30 and 50/34 ). I have to say I would struggle where I usually ride without the 34 for some climbs, but on flats and downs I usually find myself in the larger ring and 13t sprocket. It depends where you live and ride really and how steep / rough the hills are. For road only use Id certainly miss the 50 chainring, but if it were mostly offroad I think youd be ok with the 42 and 12-36. I would really like to go 1x10 on my road bike but I dont think it would work for me.

You could try a single ring on your existing bike to see if you like the gearing, superstar components sell CX rings at a good price, and you can usually get a 12-36 cassette for around £15 from chainreactioncycles or similar
Post edited at 15:30
OP andy 04 Mar 2017
In reply to Wee Davie:

> I recently got a Planet X Kaffenback steel roadbike running SRAM Apex 1 x11 with hydro disc brakes. I like it- here's a bit more in depth info I wrote up. Hope it helps- http://daviesdaysoff.blogspot.co.uk/

Thanks - that's really helpful.

OP andy 04 Mar 2017
In reply to Pesda potato:

Thanks. This'll just be a winter/bad weather/exploring tracks bike, so I'm less worried about speed. 42-36 will be very similar to the 34-28 I have on my bikes in Yorkshire, where the hills are generally longer and steeper than Warwickshire, so pretty sure I'll be ok on the hills there.
 beardy mike 04 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

I've been running a Cotic Escapade (new one with wider dropouts) and I can honestly say it's the most fun bike I've owned. I run it as follows:

Suntour 11-46 10 speed cassette
42 tooth no drop Superstar components chainring on old middleburn cranks
Bar end shifter although this needs replacing with a Microshift unit as they do an MTB 10 speed which you can run shimano with.
Shimano 10 speed XT shadow rear derailleur.
Gusset Flat pedals
29er wheels (bought from Cotic) wit generic but good quality hubs and WTB rims
anything between 25mm slicks to Schwalbe Sam smarts, 1/75" front and back although I should be running smaller on the back - I had to take off the side knobs to get it to fit!
On One midge bar although I'd rather have Salsa Cowchippers
Tektro brake levers and Shimano Alivo mechanical discs.

The only thing I would change is the shifter, maybe drop two teeth off the chainring and change the brakes to Juin cable pull hydro units. Other than that it's my perfect bike. Build it yourself and it'll come in around 1500 with the hydro brakes. The advantage of the bar end shifter is that when you tweek your derailleuer or it get clogged with mud it still works fine.

 ChrisJD 04 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

Definitely go 1x11.

On my x-type bike I run a Shimano 11-42 cassette on a 42T front (Sram single chain ring & crank), with a Shimano MTB derailleur.

I'm running Schwalbe X-One tubeless as well. They've been excellent. More aggressive tread than the G-1
 The Potato 04 Mar 2017
In reply to beardy mike:
ah yes id like some cowchippers too, just cant justify spending that much on bars (at the moment), even if they will last a lifetime.
Post edited at 16:25
 beardy mike 04 Mar 2017
In reply to Pesda potato:

Here it is on a trail above Val Pettorina in the Dolomites opposite Marmolada when I rode part of te geological trail there. It was a mega ride. The only thing it lacked was good brakes! Got some looks from enduro bikers in body armour that's for sure.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153864524312592&set=a.1015019...
 nufkin 04 Mar 2017
Does getting the 1x system limit you to SRAM drivetrain components? It looked like they have a fancy chain for it, which, if so, presumably limits the rings/cassettes you can use

OP andy 04 Mar 2017
In reply to nufkin:
I suspect you can sort it with non-SRAM, but the bikes I've been looking at all come with SRAM.

I've looked at putting a bike together from frameset and bits but I can't get anywhere near the price of the Rose with remotely similar components. It's just over £2k and the DT Swiss wheels and tubeless tyres come in at about £500 (which seems to be a big difference between them and other makes, where the wheelset is often much cheaper than you'd expect.

If it's as much fun as you guys say I may sell my midlands "best bike" and live with one down there (plus pub bike and Brompton, obvs...).
 ChrisJD 04 Mar 2017
In reply to nufkin:

> Does getting the 1x system limit you to SRAM drivetrain components

Shimano do 1x11 as well. And you can mix/match

And quite a few third party cassettes as well - e.g. I run an 11sp E13 9-46t on my MTB
 beardy mike 05 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD: running shimano 1x 11 with drops is not quite that simple actually. You cant mix mtb 11 speed with road shifters as they made the ratios different. Which leaves you either with a short range shift system which is fine on road but struggle if you're off road, or bar end shifters from microshift, or gevenalle cx shifters. Thats why the gravel bike 1x11 is nearly all Sram.
 ChrisJD 05 Mar 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

I'm not running drops 760mm wide flat MTB bars & 50mm stem on my Cotic EscpV2
 beardy mike 05 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD: thats just cheating nothing as fun as riding down hills completly out of control on you drops!

 nufkin 05 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD:

> And quite a few third party cassettes as well

That's good - the SRAM ones seem enormously expensive
 beardy mike 05 Mar 2017
In reply to nufkin:

http://www.bikegoo.co.uk/components-c8/cassettes-c20/sunrace-mx3-wide-range...

really nice piece of kit and they do 11 speed too.
 cragtyke 06 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/04/vitus-mach-3-bicycle-rev...

not sure if these are in the shops yet, but looks like it may fit the bill.
 nutme 06 Mar 2017
I am cycling with 1x10 for over a year now. It was originally Ultegra 3x10, but after having problems with sifter I've converted it to fix on front. Don't really miss it.
OP andy 07 Mar 2017
In reply to cragtyke:

> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/04/vitus-mach-3-bicycle-rev... sure if these are in the shops yet, but looks like it may fit the bill.

A bit chunky for what I'm after. Saving up for one of these:

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-xeon-cdx-cross-4400-1x11/aid:885446
 ChrisJD 07 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

If you are spending that sort of money, why not keep it Northern and have a look at the Cotic Escapade V2. Buy the frame and spec it to your choice.

Or support Alpkit and the Sondor bike brand- you could get the Sonder Camino Titanium for that money.

 beardy mike 07 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD:

Or the On One bikes - they do several extremely well specced carbon bikes for less money than you're looking at. The only problem with a whole bike from Cotic is that they only do standard road groupsets which means you're looking at 2x setups as standard rather than 1x11 as you stated to start with! I guess you could always take a chainring off?
 Phil79 07 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

I've got a 1x10 on my CX/cross bike. A little slower than my road bike but great for winter riding, semi off road adventures and commuting on muddy cycle paths.
 ChrisJD 07 Mar 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

> The only problem with a whole bike from Cotic is that they only do standard road groupsets which means you're looking at 2x setups as standard rather than 1x11 as you stated to start with!

That's why I said buy the frame

They also say on their website: "If there's anything on the spec you're not sure about, or don't need, give us a ring to discuss. We'd much rather leave something off you don't need and charge you a bit less than waste a perfectly good part you'll not use when we can put it on someone elses bike. Better for you, better for us, less waste, so better for everyone."
 beardy mike 07 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD:

Yeah yeah - I know They don't do SRAM at all - I asked when I got mine. And as I've said elsewhere, shimano with drops and 1x11 is a pain unless you want a non functioning flippy paddle... but I can confirm the guys there are really bloody helpful and the bike IS ace. I guess you could kit it up with SRAM and it'd still come in cheaper than the rose. They will even do you 650b wheels with WTB horizon roadplus tyres for a super cushty ride. Only trouble is that then your offroad tyre choice is limited because of tyre widths
 ChrisJD 07 Mar 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

> Yeah yeah - I know They don't do SRAM at all - I asked when I got mine.

That is a bit odd and limiting!

 beardy mike 07 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD:

Yep. I guess they have to make minimum order numbers and being a small company it's probably a ball ache dealing with both seeing as most MTB riders seem to prefer Shimano and that will be the majority of the product? Personally, if they'd had a SRAM equipped 1x10 at the time I woul have chewed their arm off rather than dicking about making it up...
OP andy 08 Mar 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

> Or the On One bikes - they do several extremely well specced carbon bikes for less money than you're looking at. The only problem with a whole bike from Cotic is that they only do standard road groupsets which means you're looking at 2x setups as standard rather than 1x11 as you stated to start with! I guess you could always take a chainring off?

Have looked at On One and Cotic (including buying a frameset) but the specs (wheels etc) are inferior or would be expensive to get up to the same standard as the Rose.
OP andy 08 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD:

> If you are spending that sort of money, why not keep it Northern and have a look at the Cotic Escapade V2. Buy the frame and spec it to your choice.Or support Alpkit and the Sondor bike brand- you could get the Sonder Camino Titanium for that money.

Hadn't come across Sonder - good tip, thanks.
 ChrisJD 08 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

Wheels - I'm running Hopes 20Five CX wheeleset - can take some abuse if running lower pressures on tubeless.

The Sonder ti is getting some good reviews

http://road.cc/content/news/166993-alpkit-sonder-camino-titanium-adventure-...

http://grit.cx/reviews/rated-sonder-camino-ti-sram-force-1
OP andy 08 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD:
I definitely want tubeless - run tubeless on my "home" road bikes, and there's some proper potholed horrors round Warwickshire!

The Rose comes with DT Swiss wheels with Schwalbe tubeless fitted, which is probably £500 worth just in wheels.
 beardy mike 08 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

I'll give you Cotic being a bit more tricky to get to that spec purely because of the 1x11 spec you want and basically having to buy a groupset. The On one I'm a little surprised about - yeah, maybe wheels but if you ride offroad, you wouldn't catch me buying posh wheels - if they are road size rims the will be bananna shaped in no time at all. On my old bike I had 36 spoke wheels on straight spokes and a heavy touring rim and they were constantly gettin bent. Now I have WTB i19 rims and 36 spoke and they seem sturdy enough. Also if you are genuinely riding offroad, tight road drops are pretty minging. You definitely want something with a bit of flare - its a much more comfortable position when descending. Lastly, again if you are really intending on going off road, the gearing on your rose is way off unless you have the legs of hulk - 42-36 is pretty brutal - I had 42-42 and it was brutal. At the moment I'm on 36-42 which slower on the road. So you need to work out what riding you're going to do. It's a compromise as ever... And lastly you might want to check what size rubber you can get in there. If like me you start thinking you'll ride mostly road but want to do the odd green lane, fine, but be aware that you'll soon discover that you can get away with far more than you ever expected, and will probably want to put bigger tyres on. Check the max clearances of the Rose as buying an expensive cross frame and finding out oafter that you can only just squeeze a 32mm tyre because the frame complies with UCI regs in would be a shame...
OP andy 08 Mar 2017
In reply to beardy mike: Thanks - all good thought provoking stuff.

It'll be 90% road bike - maybe the occasional track or cobble, so I do want it as light as possible, so post wheels are ok for me! I might even get a set of clunkers if I decide to do any off-road, but as Yorkshire's official worst off road cyclist I don't do much.

I'm pretty sure the Rose will take fatter tyres as they do a gravel bike version with 38mm rubber.

I do really like that Ti bike, but not sure about the bars - they just look a bit odd!
 munro90 08 Mar 2017
In reply to ChrisJD:

Quite fancy building up a Sonder Camino Ti frame. Probably the Alpkit Love Mud trimmings, but with Hunt disc wheels and one of the SRAM 1x groupsets with hydraulic disc brakes, but looking around online today, I couldn't see many retailers flogging the 1x sets as a whole, and if you buy the set up bit by bit from one of the big retaillers (Wiggle etc.), you seem to end up with a spare flappy paddle on the left shifter which would ordinarily control the front derailleur.

Anyone know a better place to shop for them? And/or a way to avoid the spare flappy paddle?
 ChrisJD 08 Mar 2017
In reply to munro90:

You could put wide MTB bars on it - opens up a whole lot more options with groupset and brakes

This is the Alu version:

https://www.alpkit.com/sonder/bikes/sonder-camino-al-sram-apex1-flat-bar
 beardy mike 08 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:

I did a bit of a round up on one of the other current bike threads about flared bars, I have the on one bars and they are OK, but really as I said above I want the salsa bars. The slightly flared Salsa cowbells might suit you as they will give you straighter arms when descending - there's nothing worse than having your nose in your front tyre during a steep descent because you've got narrow standard road bars! Anyway whatever you'll buy it'll probably come with bars like that so you can go out, see what I mean and then splash some cash

On the Rubber front - I would personally make sure you can fit 40mm tyres - the WTB Nano is supposed to be a supper tyre for the summer with good rolling centre tread and side knobs for cornering and the rough. They are WCS i.e. tubeless and you'll be able to run them at much lower pressures than a 30-35mm tyre.
 beardy mike 08 Mar 2017
In reply to munro90:

I seem to remember that Apex1 is the least expensive way to go on that front... either that or Juin tech hybrid cable pull hydro brakes, a pair of tektro levers and a single bar end shifter with shimano MTB at the back - Microshift do mtb 2x11 shifters for about £80 and they will never go wrong...
 munro90 09 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:
You're right. Just priced up buying the components from ChainReaction. £750 for Rival 1x with hydraulics or about £900 for Force 1x.

Bloody expensive compared to the Shimano road groupsets with rim brakes that I'm used to - I wouldn't mind but you're arguably getting fewer components!

At these prices, it would be cheaper to buy a full bike from Alpkit then just swap out the wheels in due course.
Post edited at 11:17
 MonkeyPuzzle 09 Mar 2017
In reply to munro90:

Yep. The x11 and x12 (currently MTB only) cassettes are feckin ridonkulous money.
 Wee Davie 09 Mar 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

My complete bike was about £700 with the Apex 1 x 11 and hydro discs. It's definitely fun buying and building bikes up with components (went down that road with my last bike) but it's so expensive compared to a complete bike. Reckon with my wheel upgrades and so on I'd have been looking at around £1200 ish for mine if I'd bought the frame, groupo etc in stages. It's a no brainer for me.
 beardy mike 10 Mar 2017
In reply to Wee Davie:

For sure - you have to be creative with your money to build bikes... and prepared to wait for deals to come along! But as you say it is a lot of fun! And as you say, if you just want a bike, then buying a complete bike is cheapest by far. But then if you know exactly what you want and it's different to what people are offering, you'll spend lots of extra money anyway. I guess you can offset that money by flogging the bits you don't want....
OP andy 10 Mar 2017
In reply to beardy mike:
I've done a couple of builds - one is my best bike for which I bought a frameset from Westbrook Cycles in one of their "insanely cheap Scott" sales, and basically swapped groupset from my previous bike and bought new wheels - got a bike that'd be about £8k to buy new for about £2000 (plus groupset).

Then myYorkshire winter bike is a Ribble frames and bits I had - though to be honest it's like Trigger's broom now in that nearly everything has been replaced apart from frame, bars and seatpost.

You're right - it's dead good fun, but I simply can't get anywhere near the Rose or the Sonder with a build, given that I don't have any spare bits knocking about for that sort of set up.
Post edited at 10:30
 malk 17 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:
have recently ordered a gt grade al sora for bargain price- i plan to replace the 50/34 with a subcompact like the deore 38/24 (assuming the sora shifters would work?) if the 56 frame is big enough..
Post edited at 11:40
In reply to andy:

A couple of the guys in our club regularly ride Cyclo Cross - yet come out on club runs on their cross bikes with a 1x11 setup and have no bother keeping up - even when the pace hots up on the way home. They do have 2 sets of wheels / tyres - one for cross events, and one with a more road friendly tread.
 LastBoyScout 20 Mar 2017
In reply to andy:
> ... but have seen "gravel bikes" on a few websites, some of which come with 1x11 gearing. Standard seem to be a 42T chainring with a 11-36 cassette, which gives a similar range to a compact with 11-28 at the back, but obviously the jumps will be be a bit bigger.

I'm a bit suspicious of the new 1x gearing, for 2 reasons - firstly, after years of being told that cross chaining is "a really bad thing", on as low as a 7-speed cassette it seems it's now fine on an 11-speed one and, secondly, as you state, the jumps between gears are going to be bigger.

I can sort of see the attraction on off-road bikes for the simplicity and the fact you don't "need" to fine-tune the gears - I could probably happily drop the granny ring on my mountain bike, as it rarely gets used.

For anything I'm likely to do a decent percentage on the road with, though, I'd stick with a double and closer gearing.
Post edited at 18:24
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 beardy mike 21 Mar 2017
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Extreme cross over applies mainly to granny ring - small cassette ring and large ring to large cassette. Middle ring means your chainline is central to the cassette so you simply don't get the same effect. A single chainring is set up on the chainline. Moving from 7-9 speed causes no worse cross over as the cassettes are the same width, the chain becomes narrower to accomodate the more cramped cassette. 10-11 speed uses a wider cassette and thiner chains again, but not so much that it's going to cause a problem.

As for ratio spread, that is going to depend on the Cassette you use and the set up you currently have. There are plenty of online calculators which will help you work this out, but I think you'd be surprised at how well you can match what you already have. Sure, it's not going to be as clickable as having a short ratio derailleur set up, but unless you are competing I really don't think you'll notice it that much. The compromise might be having to push a bit harder on hills or not having as much flat out speed. But it's not that often that you'll be pushing 50-11...

And the trick to hilly rides when you want a little more leeway is to have a couple of chainrings.

The advantages are:

no extreme cross over
quieter
less to go wrong
cheaper to replace drive chain
less likely to drop your chain - with a thin thick chainring and no derailleur in place and a clutch mech, it just doesn't happen.

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