UKC

Tiptoe Ridge (5) might be the answer, but although I've done lots of routes there have never done it. Next time I go I'm determined I will, as I think I might have reached a suitable level of incompetence. The view of it from the Pharos looks brilliant - should be on the appropriate page on ukc.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Tower Ridge. End of story!

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Three Pebble Slab.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I reckon some of the Bedouin routes in Wadi Rum would be very high on the scale, if not the very top.

In reply to HimTiggins:

Tower Ridge is disappointing as a climb in my view, albeit a great day out.. mostly a scamble with a few harder bits... mod really. Observatory Ridge is way better but harder.

This would be a contender by the easiest line:

North Ridge (5.6)

Nothing like 5.6 if you rap into the gap.

In the UK this:

Pinnacle Ridge (Summer) (D)

Again with raps or

A' Chir Ridge Traverse (M)

Best with a raps .

In reply to Offwidth:

What is this "rap" of which you speak?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

It's one of the best easy routes I've done, don't bother doing the direct start, it's far harder and the climbing is rubbish!

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I remember 'Symphony crack' at Rhoscolyn being pretty amazing

In reply to Rog Wilko:

East Buttress (Summer) (D)

by some way...

Corvus (D)

is pretty damn good too.

In reply to bouldery bits:


Flying buttress Direct, surely?

In reply to MusicalMountaineer:

Terrific route though Corvus is, you'd have to be pretty short-sighted to claim that it was in the top ten. There must be umpteen alpine routes that would knock it into a cocked hat though, as is often the way as I get older, none of them seem to be coming to mind.

T.

In reply to MusicalMountaineer:


I did the former 10 days ago as a winter climb and am definitely going back for the summer tick.

Closer to home and more in the way of a trad outcrop I'd say Presidents' Slab (HD in the definitive guide)

President's Slab (VD)

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I think there was a similar thread quite recently.

Upper Exum Ridge on Grand Teton is pretty good.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:
I think Corvus is bloody brilliant as a climb: long, clever and with sustained interest. Probably the best Diff I've done in England

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Horned Crag Route on Lliwedd id a good contender. A long day out though, best when you are certain of good weather and your route finding.
Great Slab Route on Chair Ladder is good too.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

As it was originally tagged "The Diff to end All Diffs" could I nominate the Applecross peninsula's Cioch Nose for the UK's submission, wonderful though lots of others are, including Pinnacle Ridge SnG?

I know it has been regraded, but there are lots of much much harder but perhaps less intimidating V Diffs

In reply to Offwidth:
IMHO A'Chir Ridge is nothing like as fine as Pinnacle Ridge on SNG, and the Clach Glas - Blaven traverse is better than either.

In reply to Rog Wilko:
Third flatiron above Boulder is quite good

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Clach-Glas Blaven ... yes thats better than A Chir. Some other Skye Diffs were better in fact but none of them were anything like Diff.

In reply to john arran:

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin West Philadelphia, born and raised......

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Corvus might be the best I've done.
Milestone direct is as perfect a Diff as you could wish for but is VDiff now.
Quiver Rib is spectacular.

Not a big fan of the oversized ridge rambles mentioned above. There must be an outstanding one on the grit somewhere but it doesn't come to mind...

In reply to Rog Wilko:
I rather like Bosigran Ridge. Not mega long, but very good fun.
edit: ah. Diff, not VDiff!! Must learn to read...

In reply to Offwidth:


Second that. A' Chir was good, but the day I did Clach Glas to Bla Bheinn it absolutely blew me away. An hour or two's of scrambling on that held it's own alongside the main Cuillin Traverse IMO.

In reply to alan moore:


Inverted Staircase? Although I can't think of a gritstone Diff that does the small but perfectly formed thing in the way that Heaven Crack does at VDiff or Black Hawk Hell Crack at Severe.

Also, there's a lot of climbs that have already been mentioned that I haven't done so I'm not going to make claims for best in the UK, let alone best in the world, but Slanting Buttress Ridge Route on Lliwedd is pretty damn good.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Play Crack (D) at Sheepstor, Devon.

It certainly has few aspects or qualities to recommend it to others, but to me it is the best in the world.

De gustibus and all that.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Tiptoe Ridge is a fun way to start the day, solo in big shoes, before everyone else gets up. Mostly very easy and not particularly engaging climbing. The location makes it a contender, I suppose, but not the climbing. For example Middlefell Buttress, Raven Crag, Langdale, is far more enjoyable climbing and the location is at least as inspiring. I am sure there are hundreds if not thousands of routes around the world that would beat it at that grade.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Lockwoods Chimney

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Quiver Rib on the east face of Aonach Dubh is worth a mention.

In reply to Francis Charlesworth:

That depends on what you mean by "best"

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Russet Groove (VD)

Used to be diff

In reply to DaveHK:


Excellent, but hardly "Diff" as remember it. My 1994 guidebook gives it 5.4 which I thought was top end V Diff.

Martin

In reply to bouldery bits:

Hum....

Is this the one at Froggatt Edge?

If so, acording to Eastern Grit and UK Climbing the grade of the route is contested and debated.

The grades range from VS 5a to E1 5a.

It is a bold climb -safe but a tad scary to top rope but very scary to lead with a lot of fall potential.

Sav

In reply to Mountain Spirit:

youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc&

In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Graded E1 5b according to UK C but it says it is on the HVS/E1 border.

Sav

In reply to The Ivanator:

Por que?

?

The person is being Ironic!?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Devil's Slide on Lundy. Outstanding situation and lovely padding up at Diff, except for the final pitch which is harder and given Severe (although I'd say it's a very soft Severe - more to do with getting your head round the exposure than technical difficulty)

In reply to Offwidth:

I didn't really rate Corvus. The hand traverse is good, but it's 10 meters of good climbing on a non distinct scramble up vegetated poor rock.

In reply to Rog Wilko:
What about Ordinary Route C Buttress on Dow Crag. I have done it several times and enjoyed every one.
'C' Ordinary Route (Summer) (VD)

In reply to Karl Bromelow:


Very interesting response. I did say I haven't done the route, didn't I!

In reply to Pursued by a bear:


Yes, odd that in a thread marked "World's Best", most of the climbs being given are in the UK. I suppose in a literal sense of climbs actually being graded (UK) Diff, that makes sense but if we take it as equivalent difficulty pretty much any ADish ridge climb in the alps will be better, and probably most of those are only of typical quality, looking globally. I'd suggest the SW ridge of the Schreckhorn as a European contender.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

In the UK I'd agree that Pinnacle Ridge (Gillean) and East Buttress (B Eighe) would be contenders (and I can't think of a "Diff Heaven Crack" either), but the best Diff I've ever done is this, Red Slab (D).
Haven't done huge amount of pure rock climbing abroad, but I would vote for Cresta Bardamina Paul (PD+),
well over a km of superbly exposed ridge.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Obviously its Pinnacle Ridge (SNG) with Clach Glas - Blaven as an honourary runner up in the UK.

Anyone mentioning grit on this thread is an idiot.

In reply to MG:

Bloody hell we are parochial.

East Buttress on Mt Whitney
Cathedral Peak in Toulumne
East Ridge on Mount Edith Cavell

etc.etc

In reply to Removed User:

I really don't understand how you think Pinnacle Ridge is better than Clach Glas - Blaven. On a five-star system, PR gets about 6 stars and CG-B about 8 stars ...

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Fancy creating another ticklist Rog?

I rather fancy working my way through these routes as a comeback from my op - dont feel at full strength these days so want to start nice and easy but still with interesting climbing

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Without a shadow of a doubt these and the round of Coire Lagan taking in King's Chimney and the Inn Pinn (especially if started by an ascent of the Lagan face of Sgurr Sgumain) are the best days out at around Diff that the UK offers, but all three are mostly walking. Perhaps the OP had something shorter and sharper in mind?

In reply to BnB:

Remember it was rather thin on gear .... (some 10 years later!)

In reply to Offwidth:

Another tick for the Clach Glas traverse - best mountaineering day in UK. Solo'd in big boots and had a blast!

In reply to BnB:


Yes, it's tempting to argue that there's a difference between a great Diff and a great day out including some Diff-standard climbing.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Alison rib Bos

Isn't the Clach Glas traverse Mod?

In reply to BnB:


?? From the start to the finish of the Clach Glas - Blaven traverse (that is, from the bealach at the top of Arch Gully to the top of the north face of Blaven) there is NO walking at all, except for c.50 feet of walking across the flat top of the summit of Clach Glas, and about 20 feet of walking across 'the Putting Green. It's about 1000 metres of very sustained and exposed scrambling (all Grade 3-4) with three sections of Diff. Overall it's a lot less tame than the vast majority of diffs in the country. I don't remember any walking on Pinnacle Ridge of SNG either, once you've reached the crest of the ridge, or perhaps there's one short 'walk' along a very exposed path around the third pinnacle if you cheat.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Surely anyone for whom a Diff is an easy day in the mountains (that's VS punters like me for example), easy scrambling is nearer to walking than climbing. It doesn't require a rope for starters.

As for the routes in question, I've done B-CG about 10 times because it's only a few miles from my house, while SnG is my favourite mountain on the planet. I wouldn't rate the former above grade 1 apart from the V chimney and summit pitch on CG, the clamber off the imposter and the diff wall and subsequent chimney on B. The rest is mostly walking. On PR only the 3rd pinnacle requires handwork at grade 3 followed by an abseil, and the 5th pinnacle has a single tricky reach at about Mod followed by options at all scrambling grades.

None of the above is to diminish the quality of the routes in terms of sustained exposure, views, positions and sublime rock. I'll never stop loving them.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
I'd say it's hard to grade. I think the parts I'd call Diff (i.e comparable with Diff on Tryfan or Stanage or the Roaches) are a section of the groove below the summit scramble of CG, then the step on the Imposter, then certainly the short wall above the Putting Green (arguably quite a lot harder) and then quite a lot of the final gully, I think, though my memory of that's a bit hazy. Also, I soloed the whole thing, in good form, so it's a bit hard to judge. As with all gabbro, it's quite hard to grade because the friction's so good. The stupendous scramble up the summit tower of Clach Glas would be about Hard Severe if it was polished limestone

PS. I'd say it's about the same standard, or a shade harder, than the classic 1000 ft 'Carrot Ridge' in the 12 Bens of Connemara, which no one would describe as a walk, though it has a lot of very easy climbing.

I don't mean the way rock climbers call climbs 'a walk' sometimes I'm sure John and I called Petite Fleur on Craig Ddu once 'a walk' once because we found it so easy. Oh, and as someone's said above there's 3PS ... and, of course, there's always FB on Stanage

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


When I started climbing, practically everything that's now graded Diff was graded Mod. Another

In reply to Rog Wilko:

The World's best Diff is almost certainly one of the Bedouin routes in Wadi Rum.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I'd say the crux of Carrot Ridge is quite a bit harder than anything on Clach Glas/Blaven (even that nasty little wall after the col). Carrot was described to me by one of the locals as "it's graded Diff, it's really about Mild Severe but it's a scramble really". After I'd done it I knew exactly what he meant and wouldn't disagree. On CG-B I'd give the nasty wall and the corner above it Diff, the ascent to CG Mod and the Imposter Grade 3, with the rest being a lot easier. One of the best UK days out whatever the grade.
PS are you planning to reissue "The Cuillin", by the way? Still the best book on the place by a long way.

PPS just noticed that you give Carrot Ridge (?)Severe in your entry on the database.

In reply to Iain Thow:


Oh, yes, there was a move or two of Severe on the second pitch, but after that it was very easy (but v, v good). Again that's a difficult one for me to judge, because again I soloed the whole thing in c. half an hour. Of course, on a very long route one expects longish sections that are much easier than the hardest parts. On further reflection, thinking about it quite a bit harder, I'd guess that your CG-B grades are probably spot on.

The snag with my Cuillin book is that I'm not sure the publisher still has the original scans. If they haven't, it would be a rather major job to reconstruct and re-publish. I suppose it's something I should think about. Also, do you think the public would expect something different/more in a new edition, rather than a straight reprint? Another snag is that I'm up to my eyeballs at the moment with my latest book (though you wouldn't guess it from the way I've been nattering on UKC today).

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
"practically everything that's now graded Diff was graded Mod"

that was my thinking in putting forward the Cioch Nose. I don't know how popular it is now but it had a very adventurous feel to it with stupendous airiness and views. I'd worked in daily full sight of it and admired it for several years when I worked up there without ever thinking I'd be up there sometime.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I think a straight reprint would sell fine. One of the Skye hotels I stay in with groups has had to hide its copy because people kept trying to walk off with it, which implies there's a demand (although possibly not the type of customer you want)

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Its not the world's best, obviously, but in the narrow remit of actually been given a diff grade and not being a scramble with bits of diff, my personal favourite is C Ordinary.

In reply to thepeaks:


..which reminds me. Black Slab at Bosigran is the best Diff I have ever done and a Kirkus route to boot.

In reply to JJL:


...at least two of which are Severes...

In reply to alan moore:
Which ones are severe...East ridge of Edith Cavell is a good shout, one of the rockies finest routes.

OH yeah my money is on Tower ridge for blighty.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

And V.Diffs were Diff.
So I nominate New West on Pillar.

In reply to wercat:


I did it in sopping rain in big boots a fortnight ago. Trust me, it's not a Diff. Perhaps the continuation scramble was in the wet. Utterly superb route though.

In reply to Tom Valentine:


Yes, and by the same token, Spiral Stairs and Flying Buttress back to 'Hard Diff'.

In reply to alan moore:


No - 5.3

In reply to Andy Clarke1965:


East Buttress of Whitney is graded 5.7 and like a harder but inferior Amphitheatre Buttress.
East Buttress of Cathedral Peak is 5.6/7 depending on which go-anywhere line you choose to follow.
Not heard of the Edith one...

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I really would have to disagree with Karl's summary of Tiptoe. I found it had really interesting climbing, varied (with the descent from the pinnacle being memorable) and in a wonderful position. Possibly V Diff too.

In reply to Rog Wilko:


You did, Rog, and I am not suggesting you don't do it. You should. It's fun. You might well rate it higher than me. Cheers, Karl

In reply to Darron:


Fair enough Darron. I wouldn't argue with you. I do enjoy climbing it whenever I am staying there. Maybe my assesment is overly harsh and too subjective. In my opinion it is a nice route and I wouldn't like to put any one off doing it.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I think it's the best Diff I've ever done by a significant distance! Absolutely perfect rock, a summit, crux downclimb, great views....It's brilliant even as a solo. For a diff leader it must be the best thing they've ever done.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

It's not a long route but Crystal Ridge is a lovely climb in a beautiful and remote place.

King's Chimney is hard to beat in the single pitch category.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Cneifion Arête?
I'm sure it's a diff in the rockfax guide.

In reply to WildCamper:

Hi Tobey, been wondering what you were up to . Hope op is a long term success, and good luck with the comeback

In reply to routrax:


Another one that's difficult to grade. It was always Moderate in the old days, like Milestone Ordinary, which was certainly a bit harder. I suppose there are a couple of Diff moves in the first 40 feet side wall of CA, but then it's a lot of very moderate scrambling. They're just very vague adjectives, after all.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

If my memory is right,that's what Rockfax says - diff first pitch, mod for the rest (but gives it diff overall)

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Next you'll be saying that grades are only there to help give us an indication of the rigors of a route and not trophies to be collected in their own right. Go wash your mouth out

In reply to Michael Hood:


No, I wouldn't say that at all. I'd simply say that grades are useful for giving us a rough idea of the challenge a route presents and not the raison d'etre of doing the route.

In reply to NickK123:


And another tick from me. A brilliant day and sunshine all the way!