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Following on from the Worlds Best Diff thread
V Diff? I nominate Bowfell Buttress. V Diff with a Severe crux pitch
Severe? Doorpost, Bosigran. It's actually Hard Severe, but not high in the grade
Or Fledermaus, Du Toitskloof, Western Cape, South Africa. (Grade 10/E2 approximately equates to mild UK Severe) :-
http://www.climbing.co.za/wiki/Fledermaus A mountain route of approx 350 m of sheer joyful exposure
Post edited at 17:03
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In reply to Trangia:
VDiff- New West
S- Troutdale Pinnacle
HS- Tophet Wall
VS- Eliminate 'A'
End of thread.
(Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi ((estate)) obviously)
VDiff- New West
S- Troutdale Pinnacle
HS- Tophet Wall
VS- Eliminate 'A'
End of thread.
(Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi ((estate)) obviously)
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In reply to Will Hunt:
If it were really no contest it would be a dull thread. Kind of like ending an argument with 'End of' and expecting that to be it.
Anyway, the ridge is not VDiff by any stretch. I submit Cioch Nose (VD)
> At VDiff it's the Cuillin Ridge. No contest whatsoever.
If it were really no contest it would be a dull thread. Kind of like ending an argument with 'End of' and expecting that to be it.
Anyway, the ridge is not VDiff by any stretch. I submit Cioch Nose (VD)
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In reply to Trangia:
Only the UK again, but Gashed Crag, Squareface and Souwester Slabs must be contenders, and for sheer concentrated joy Heaven Crack takes some beating.
Only the UK again, but Gashed Crag, Squareface and Souwester Slabs must be contenders, and for sheer concentrated joy Heaven Crack takes some beating.
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In reply to planetmarshall:
Just looked at pics of the Cioch Nose and admit that it looks pretty impressive.
However, I'm gonna nominate Commando Ridge at Bosigran, on a sunny day, low tide and calm sea!
Just looked at pics of the Cioch Nose and admit that it looks pretty impressive.
However, I'm gonna nominate Commando Ridge at Bosigran, on a sunny day, low tide and calm sea!
In reply to Trangia:
Sou'wester Slabs is pretty good, especially if you finish by the three tier chimney.
Sou'wester Slabs is pretty good, especially if you finish by the three tier chimney.
Post edited at 21:49
In reply to DaveHK:
Especially if you finish with the V dff upper section of south ridge. There's a nice spot below three tier chimney that would make a very scenic bivi spot. Loads of room and rocks to make a shelter wall.
> Sou'wester Slabs is pretty good, especially if you finish by the three tier chimney.
Especially if you finish with the V dff upper section of south ridge. There's a nice spot below three tier chimney that would make a very scenic bivi spot. Loads of room and rocks to make a shelter wall.
In reply to fmck:
When I soloed it a few years ago I sat on that ledge below the three tier chimney for ages just soaking up the atmosphere.
> Especially if you finish with the V dff upper section of south ridge. There's a nice spot below three tier chimney that would make a very scenic bivi spot. Loads of room and rocks to make a shelter wall.
When I soloed it a few years ago I sat on that ledge below the three tier chimney for ages just soaking up the atmosphere.
In reply to fmck:
Yes but please don't. It's fine the way it is.
> Loads of room and rocks to make a shelter wall.
Yes but please don't. It's fine the way it is.
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In reply to Trangia:
at VS - mur y niwl specially if combined with pinnacle wall. airy exposure combined with solid gear, then a airy bimble up the Pinnacle. Didn't want it to end!
at VS - mur y niwl specially if combined with pinnacle wall. airy exposure combined with solid gear, then a airy bimble up the Pinnacle. Didn't want it to end!
In reply to Trangia:
at hard severe I would go for sea Mist at Saddle Head - exposure, a safe but unnerving traverse start from a bombproof belay , then great gear and jugs above the sea
at hard severe I would go for sea Mist at Saddle Head - exposure, a safe but unnerving traverse start from a bombproof belay , then great gear and jugs above the sea
In reply to MusicalMountaineer:
A slightly Lakes biased list but not bad. Mine, not that dissimilar, might read:
V Diff - Little Chamonix (as a pure cragging rock climb, not a mountaineering route, I've yet to do better at the grade)
Severe - Christmas Curry (again, as a cragging experience, hard to beat at the grade)
HS - Tophet Wall (I did Main Wall and Tophet wall on consecutive days one sunny summer long ago and, in hindsight, Tophet Wall probably edged it)
VS - Eliminate A (well, what can I say)
A slightly Lakes biased list but not bad. Mine, not that dissimilar, might read:
V Diff - Little Chamonix (as a pure cragging rock climb, not a mountaineering route, I've yet to do better at the grade)
Severe - Christmas Curry (again, as a cragging experience, hard to beat at the grade)
HS - Tophet Wall (I did Main Wall and Tophet wall on consecutive days one sunny summer long ago and, in hindsight, Tophet Wall probably edged it)
VS - Eliminate A (well, what can I say)
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In reply to Skyfall:
New West, Bowfell Buttress, Cioch Nose, and Grooved Arete knock Little Cham into a cocked hat (as good as it is!)...
Cuillin is not VDiff, in this life or the next.
Gashed Crag... Well.
New West, Bowfell Buttress, Cioch Nose, and Grooved Arete knock Little Cham into a cocked hat (as good as it is!)...
Cuillin is not VDiff, in this life or the next.
Gashed Crag... Well.
Post edited at 11:56
In reply to Will Hunt:
I think the issue is that saying that the Cuillin Ridge is VDiff feels a bit like saying Mousetrap is V0...
I think the issue is that saying that the Cuillin Ridge is VDiff feels a bit like saying Mousetrap is V0...
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In reply to Trangia:
Flying Buttress on Dinas Cromlech and Bramble Buttress on Craig y Gesail are probably the two best routes I've ever done. Little Chamonix and Heaven Crack feature highly, but Flying Buttress is spectacular.
Favourite slightly harder route would be Sunset Crack at Froggatt but I don't have much experience between HVD and HVS because I can't really lead that well, and if I'm seconding then it's usually something harder. Glass Slipper on Black crack and Sunset Slab appear pretty high on the list.
But I'm absolutely using this thread as a ticklist. Thanks!
Flying Buttress on Dinas Cromlech and Bramble Buttress on Craig y Gesail are probably the two best routes I've ever done. Little Chamonix and Heaven Crack feature highly, but Flying Buttress is spectacular.
Favourite slightly harder route would be Sunset Crack at Froggatt but I don't have much experience between HVD and HVS because I can't really lead that well, and if I'm seconding then it's usually something harder. Glass Slipper on Black crack and Sunset Slab appear pretty high on the list.
But I'm absolutely using this thread as a ticklist. Thanks!
In reply to MusicalMountaineer:
I've always preferred Gashed Crag to Grooved Arete (done both a few times), as it's more sustained at the grade and more varied. Both excellent, of course, and both better than Little Cham or Bowfell Buttress IMO. The latter boiled down to one hard crack and a nice slab pitch, with the rest pretty nondescript. As nearly everyone has said, Cioch Nose is a stonker. If forced to pick one route though, I'd probably go for Squareface.
I've always preferred Gashed Crag to Grooved Arete (done both a few times), as it's more sustained at the grade and more varied. Both excellent, of course, and both better than Little Cham or Bowfell Buttress IMO. The latter boiled down to one hard crack and a nice slab pitch, with the rest pretty nondescript. As nearly everyone has said, Cioch Nose is a stonker. If forced to pick one route though, I'd probably go for Squareface.
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In reply to Trangia:
Surprised no mention of Agag's Groove for V Diff. Certainly best of grade I've done. I'm keen to see how Squareface compares, though.
S - Eagle Ridge
HS - Grey Slab (hard for grade, though!)
VS - Clean Sweep or Satan's Slit, but I'll need to see how Scabbard compares!
M
Surprised no mention of Agag's Groove for V Diff. Certainly best of grade I've done. I'm keen to see how Squareface compares, though.
S - Eagle Ridge
HS - Grey Slab (hard for grade, though!)
VS - Clean Sweep or Satan's Slit, but I'll need to see how Scabbard compares!
M
In reply to Trangia:
My favourites:
VDiff - Sou'wester slabs - The granite on the west flank of Cir Mor's South ridge is perfect.
Severe - Eagle Ridge
HS - Ardverikie Wall - Can't see this being beaten in the UK but I haven't done Main Wall or Tophet Wall so who knows...
VS - Spartan Slab or South Ridge Direct - both substantially better than Eliminate A IMO.
My favourites:
VDiff - Sou'wester slabs - The granite on the west flank of Cir Mor's South ridge is perfect.
Severe - Eagle Ridge
HS - Ardverikie Wall - Can't see this being beaten in the UK but I haven't done Main Wall or Tophet Wall so who knows...
VS - Spartan Slab or South Ridge Direct - both substantially better than Eliminate A IMO.
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In reply to Will Hunt:
It should really have an Alpine Grade, AD- maybe, there's not really much else like it in the UK. It involves either abseils, so I'm not sure it makes much sense to give it a conventional climbing grade, or down climbs which are considerably harder than VDiff.
> What grade's the Cuillin if not VDiff?
It should really have an Alpine Grade, AD- maybe, there's not really much else like it in the UK. It involves either abseils, so I'm not sure it makes much sense to give it a conventional climbing grade, or down climbs which are considerably harder than VDiff.
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In reply to planetmarshall:
Also, it depends how directly one takes it. If you do the TD Gap and Naismith's Route, the hardest pitches are definitely harder than V Diff. As you say, only an Alpine Grade is appropriate, and done this way it would be at least AD (because it's a bit harder than the Biancograt on Piz Bernina, for example, which is correctly given AD)
Also, it depends how directly one takes it. If you do the TD Gap and Naismith's Route, the hardest pitches are definitely harder than V Diff. As you say, only an Alpine Grade is appropriate, and done this way it would be at least AD (because it's a bit harder than the Biancograt on Piz Bernina, for example, which is correctly given AD)
In reply to Iain Thow:
All the routes are pure quality!
Enjoyed Gashed Crag first time, leading all with Bubbly Wall finish. Not so much second time with original finish in the dark.
Loved Cioch Nose, but felt tough at VDiff.
Looking forward to Squareface.
TD gap for a start is about HS!
All the routes are pure quality!
Enjoyed Gashed Crag first time, leading all with Bubbly Wall finish. Not so much second time with original finish in the dark.
Loved Cioch Nose, but felt tough at VDiff.
Looking forward to Squareface.
TD gap for a start is about HS!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I'm not sure that I would have compared the summer Cuillin ridge to The Biancograt!
> Also, it depends how directly one takes it. If you do the TD Gap and Naismith's Route, the hardest pitches are definitely harder than V Diff. As you say, only an Alpine Grade is appropriate, and done this way it would be at least AD (because it's a bit harder than the Biancograt on Piz Bernina, for example, which is correctly given AD)
I'm not sure that I would have compared the summer Cuillin ridge to The Biancograt!
In reply to Robert Durran:
OK, let's take a route that's all rock then: the normal route on the Zinal Rothorn. Given AD-. Miles easier than the Cuillin Ridge with TD gap and Naismith's.
Actually, it's about the same standard as the all-rock South Ridge of the Aiguille du Moine, which is given AD+ or D-.
OK, let's take a route that's all rock then: the normal route on the Zinal Rothorn. Given AD-. Miles easier than the Cuillin Ridge with TD gap and Naismith's.
Actually, it's about the same standard as the all-rock South Ridge of the Aiguille du Moine, which is given AD+ or D-.
Post edited at 15:46
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
That's got some snow/ice stuff in summer.
Agree with that - better comparison.
> OK, let's take a route that's all rock then: the normal route on the Zinal Rothorn.
That's got some snow/ice stuff in summer.
> It's about the same standard as the all-rock South Ridge of the Aiguille du Moine, which is given AD+ or D-.
Agree with that - better comparison.
In reply to MusicalMountaineer:
I found Cioch Nose tough too, but that was largely because I had an elbow injury and couldn't pull up with my right arm, and the route generally works rightwards. Complete pig. Still loved the route though, amazing positions for the grade.
Would agree with HS for the TD Gap, stood for Thrutching Desperately in my case.
I found Cioch Nose tough too, but that was largely because I had an elbow injury and couldn't pull up with my right arm, and the route generally works rightwards. Complete pig. Still loved the route though, amazing positions for the grade.
Would agree with HS for the TD Gap, stood for Thrutching Desperately in my case.
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In reply to Trangia:
No idea of best in the world, but the favourites of my limited experience:
D: Sunshine Arete (D)
HD: President's Slab (VD)
VD: Bowfell Buttress (HS 4b), Little Chamonix (VD), Lover's Leap Chimney (VD 4b), Trinity Slabs (VD) and Wall and Corner (VD)
MS: Kennel Wall
S: Troutdale Pinnacle, then 'D' Route (S 4a), then Dental Slab (S 4a), then Thomas (S 4a), then Red Slab (S 4a), then Bracket and Slab Climb (VS 4b). It's a good grade!
HS: Revelation
MVS: Digitation or Ardus
VS: Jean Jeanie or second pitch of Hedera Grooves (VS 4c). I've not done many yet...!
You can see the limits of my stomping grounds!
If you've got someone you're trying to introduce to climbing and you really want them to love it, and you're in the Lakes, you could do worse than taking them to Wallowbarrow or Gouther! And Rhylstone and Simon's Seat/Lord's Seat make great first-time trad grit venues. And Bullstones for easy natural grit bouldering! I really love these places.
No idea of best in the world, but the favourites of my limited experience:
D: Sunshine Arete (D)
HD: President's Slab (VD)
VD: Bowfell Buttress (HS 4b), Little Chamonix (VD), Lover's Leap Chimney (VD 4b), Trinity Slabs (VD) and Wall and Corner (VD)
MS: Kennel Wall
S: Troutdale Pinnacle, then 'D' Route (S 4a), then Dental Slab (S 4a), then Thomas (S 4a), then Red Slab (S 4a), then Bracket and Slab Climb (VS 4b). It's a good grade!
HS: Revelation
MVS: Digitation or Ardus
VS: Jean Jeanie or second pitch of Hedera Grooves (VS 4c). I've not done many yet...!
You can see the limits of my stomping grounds!
If you've got someone you're trying to introduce to climbing and you really want them to love it, and you're in the Lakes, you could do worse than taking them to Wallowbarrow or Gouther! And Rhylstone and Simon's Seat/Lord's Seat make great first-time trad grit venues. And Bullstones for easy natural grit bouldering! I really love these places.
In reply to C Witter:
Loved Wall and Corner.
Not in the same league as BB, NW, CN et al, but a great little route.
Iain, I know what you mean. My height (and some colourful language) helped on this.
Loved Wall and Corner.
Not in the same league as BB, NW, CN et al, but a great little route.
Iain, I know what you mean. My height (and some colourful language) helped on this.
Post edited at 17:58
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In reply to MusicalMountaineer:
Aye, it's good value without ever being desperate. The fact that I climbed it on a gloriously sunny February day might have added to the golden hue it has in my mind. It's high on my list of 'pleasant and enjoyable' routes to climb with my girlfriend; I went with her to do Gimmer Chimney recently - in light precipitation - and she didn't much appreciate it at all; nor the descents off Raven Crag...!
Would love to climb some big Scottish and Welsh routes. When I've time and can rustle up a partner for a longer trip. *Sighs wistfully and logs off to get back to work at 6.35pm...*
Aye, it's good value without ever being desperate. The fact that I climbed it on a gloriously sunny February day might have added to the golden hue it has in my mind. It's high on my list of 'pleasant and enjoyable' routes to climb with my girlfriend; I went with her to do Gimmer Chimney recently - in light precipitation - and she didn't much appreciate it at all; nor the descents off Raven Crag...!
Would love to climb some big Scottish and Welsh routes. When I've time and can rustle up a partner for a longer trip. *Sighs wistfully and logs off to get back to work at 6.35pm...*
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In reply to Lornajkelly:
It's bringing back some good memories for me, though I'm finding it difficult to argue the case for any one route to be the best of its grade.
To throw some climbs which have good times associated with them (for me, at least) into the mix, how about:
Amphitheatre Buttress (VD) somehow failed to resister in Classic Rock - but is just that nevertheless.
I'm prepared to be in a minority of one with this, but I've never failed to enjoy Bottle Buttress (VD 4a)
As a single pitch hard severe Bow-Shaped Slab (HS 4b) is a lovely outing.
As a mountain VS, Eagle Front (VS 4c) was a terrific route.
More when I've had a think...
T.
> But I'm absolutely using this thread as a ticklist.
It's bringing back some good memories for me, though I'm finding it difficult to argue the case for any one route to be the best of its grade.
To throw some climbs which have good times associated with them (for me, at least) into the mix, how about:
Amphitheatre Buttress (VD) somehow failed to resister in Classic Rock - but is just that nevertheless.
I'm prepared to be in a minority of one with this, but I've never failed to enjoy Bottle Buttress (VD 4a)
As a single pitch hard severe Bow-Shaped Slab (HS 4b) is a lovely outing.
As a mountain VS, Eagle Front (VS 4c) was a terrific route.
More when I've had a think...
T.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I thought the Climbing cruxes were standard HVD 4a and much easier than comparatively graded grit pitches. In did them onsight in far from ideal conditions (frozen hands on TD gap, knackered on NR) in approach shoes with one runner between belays. There is no way Id be climbing onsight peak or YMC grit or limestone or seacliff or mountain routes I've done that are solid severe, onsight like that. Its my favorite VDiff. Better than Mathes Crest (mising out the hard bits at the end) which would be second.
I thought the Climbing cruxes were standard HVD 4a and much easier than comparatively graded grit pitches. In did them onsight in far from ideal conditions (frozen hands on TD gap, knackered on NR) in approach shoes with one runner between belays. There is no way Id be climbing onsight peak or YMC grit or limestone or seacliff or mountain routes I've done that are solid severe, onsight like that. Its my favorite VDiff. Better than Mathes Crest (mising out the hard bits at the end) which would be second.
In reply to Trangia:
VD - much as I love the climbs on the E face of Tryfan, it has to be Agag's Groove. I've never done any other such easy climb that comes close.
HS - Creag Dhu Wall
VD - much as I love the climbs on the E face of Tryfan, it has to be Agag's Groove. I've never done any other such easy climb that comes close.
HS - Creag Dhu Wall
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In reply to Trangia:
Here's one from the world:
http://www.summitpost.org/northwest-ridge-iii-5-4/319779
Here's one from the world:
http://www.summitpost.org/northwest-ridge-iii-5-4/319779
In reply to Offwidth:
Can you give examples of some of these 'much harder' V Diffs on gritstone? I'd be interested to hear.
Can you give examples of some of these 'much harder' V Diffs on gritstone? I'd be interested to hear.
Post edited at 20:58
In reply to Trangia:
Integrity link up makes Ardverikie Wall and Doorpost look a bit embarrassing really. Possible disqualification however on the grounds on it being reliant on the easier routes/pitches lower down.
Integrity link up makes Ardverikie Wall and Doorpost look a bit embarrassing really. Possible disqualification however on the grounds on it being reliant on the easier routes/pitches lower down.
In reply to Trangia:
Funny that you should post this topic but I have just written up a guide to the absolute very best Classic Climbs in N. Wales...
http://seansmountaincamera.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/the-absolute-all-time-cla...
Funny that you should post this topic but I have just written up a guide to the absolute very best Classic Climbs in N. Wales...
http://seansmountaincamera.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/the-absolute-all-time-cla...
In reply to Cornish boy:
Much more fun when there's a big swell.
> Just looked at pics of the Cioch Nose and admit that it looks pretty impressive. However, I'm gonna nominate Commando Ridge at Bosigran, on a sunny day, low tide and calm sea!
Much more fun when there's a big swell.
In reply to Trangia:
Sorry to have to do this, but it's another Arapiles route for me.
Beau Geste (9)
Sorry to have to do this, but it's another Arapiles route for me.
Beau Geste (9)
In reply to Trangia:
Would the dislikers to the OP please elaborate!?
Of course we all have favourite climbs and it would be silly to expect everyone else to like them too, but the dislikes in this instance are not helpful to anyone without commentary.
Would the dislikers to the OP please elaborate!?
Of course we all have favourite climbs and it would be silly to expect everyone else to like them too, but the dislikes in this instance are not helpful to anyone without commentary.
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