In reply to summo:
Hi,
> I can see your point, but not all sports are so definitive. Climbing and mountaineering certainly isn't always so black and white.
I agree with "isn't always". I am only talking about an addition that would work for some, some of the time. NICAS seems to have done very well, for example. SPA has too. Might if not be worth at least trying something similar for people who don't want to teach (i.e. SPA-climber for people who jus want to climb; or NICAS-outdoor".
>There are many courses either individuals or centres offer that aren't part of the national syllabuses; learn to lead; winter skills, winter nav, classic rock, sea cliffs, scrambling, improvised rescue etc..
My point is that there are no courses for individuals whatsoever. And no national syllabuses at all. There is just stuff for people who want to do it for a living. School teachers make a living teaching everyone to read - not just those that plan to become teachers. Not offering such courses is I think reducing the size of the customer base.
> But also if a person booked a weekend with X on a learning to lead package. First hour will be spent with them not leading, perhaps seconding and setting up a mock belay so you can assess their skill level. It turns out the person needs a half a day seconding to sort out their belaying, rope work etc... The client may never achieve the goals of learning to lead package, but they've learnt loads and gone home a little bit safer mountaineer. Everyone's previous experience, ability, fitness and goals differ to try and squeeze them into ready made boxes just doesn't work.
I agree it doesn't work perfectly, but it would I think work to some degree. One might for example have a pre-course check list. And some will be taking the leading badge because they did the seconding badge, which would help solve the problem.
> As for finding an instructor, unless you are looking at improving your climbing performance in the higher grades than any instructor will be able to deliver what you are looking for; be it naving, leading, walking, scrambling, rescue or just can you get me up the Inn Pin etc.. the assessment covers it all.
I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you on this point, and rather strongly - sorry. They will be able to deliver something, but not necessarily what the person is looking for. This is the difference between a good teacher and a poor teacher. Allowing customers some idea of which your instructor is, is I was talking about.
>Generally people might return to an instructor again because they bond with them, think the same, like their teaching style. Again these are things that can't be write down and packaged.
Although not perfect, I believe a system of reviewing of customer thoughts about their instructor run by someone like MIA might well allow this to be written down.
I'm not sure anything I saying is unusual or not common practice in many industries and also within much of the teaching profession.