UKC

Morning all
I've just got back from a two week Nordic ski tour in Norway with no feeling in my big toes, some discolouration and a toenail coming off. GP spoke to vascular consultant who said look out for deterioration, damage could be permanent and stay out of sub zero environments from now on. Not the news I wanted but no surprise. No sign to my mind of classic frost bite - pain blisters etc. Anyone got similar experiences ? Did you get sensation back? Is the advice to pack up the cold weather adventures alarmist or should I start taking more interest in cycling touring and forget Norway? Thanks, appreciate any advice

In reply to norrisdan71:

Not cold damaged, more like toes hitting the front of boot as too short or "guillotine" from the flex point in boot if on telemark or x-country equipment..

In reply to norrisdan71:
I get a numb big toe when I do my snowboard bindings up too tight, seems to be when I have pressure on the tendon that runs down to my big toe (maybe there's a nerve there too?)

Quite possibly the medial dorsal cutaneous nerve

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medial_dorsal_cutaneous_nerve

Depending on how long I've been snowboarding the effect lasts anywhere from a couple of hours to a month.

In reply to norrisdan71:
Got mild frost bite last year. 2 toes affected, bad blistering and excruciating pain. Took a few months to heal fully.

Went to GP initially and was referred to vascular consultant. Was told exactly the same about staying out of sub zero environments.

I think that advice is rather extreme and I've not taken it 100%. However, I am much more mindful when running in the fells in snow etc.

Indeed, going forward I'd look at ways in which you can minimise your toes' exposure when operating in freezing conditions.

Good luck.

In reply to norrisdan71:

I guess from the doctor's point of view they're bound to say that. You went somewhere and ended up coming to them for medical help. They're not really going to say 'yeah, fill your boots... do it again and see what happens' are they? I would take their cautious view in that context.

My mate froze his toes skiing with me a few years ago. V painful thawing them afterwards, and he reckons they've never been the same since (loss of feeling) but it hasn't held him back or caused further problems.

In reply to norrisdan71:

i got some form of cold / repeated trauma damage from running in the snow / wet for 12h at the end of jan. Took 5 weeks for sensation to return to the big and second toes

In reply to norrisdan71:

See this BMC backed service: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/how-to-get-expert-frostbite-advice? .
David Hillebrandt

In reply to norrisdan71:

I was of the understanding the avoid the cold advice was short term, not years, to allow damaged cells to heal. Partially damaged tissue is very vulnerable if chilled again before healing. There is a chance that previously chilled digits will lose some sensation and chill more easily in the future.

Also, unless you know it was very cold and had / have visible symptoms, what you have may not be a cold injury.

In reply to norrisdan71:
Thanks everyone, really grateful for your advice

In reply to norrisdan71:
I have frozen my feet in various stages stopping short of real / deep tissue-bone damage (like the toe nails swollen with puss and I could rip them all off easily). This was all cold damage.

It might take 2-4 months for sensation to come back. Repeat exposure seems to make your toes quick to go numb (same for fingers) which I feel is annoying when cold weather sport climbing. Maybe just fewer nerves.

In my experience it did not make a huge difference in terms of going back for more cold - I suspect (but no expert) that this is an over reaction in terms of doc advise. If you have frostbite proper your flesh rots off your feet (happened with my partner) and then eventually they amputate... in this case repeat exposure is not ideal. It sounds like you have a bit of frost nip.

I also found that over the years it made me have hot feet - like wearing shoes was too much in offices/pubs etc, which can be a sign of nerve damage or it might just be me being weird.

Anyway, either get a second opinion from a cold damage expert or maybe don't worry too much (unless you need an excuse to do something else ) I'm sure it will be fine!