UKC

My girlfriend and I have the last week in July/first two three weeks of August off and we plan to drive out to the alps. She has zero experience on snow and ice (and in any case I have June in the alps to satisfy that craving) so we are after big rock routes, ideally sub E1, possibly with snow patch or easy glacier approaches. Where would you recommend?

Areas I know of and will likely visit;

Dolomites
Chamonix (Envers, Argentiere hut, Aiguilles Rouges, Barbacine)

Beyond that though my experience of alpine rock is a bit limited. I've done routes like the Amone Slab, Chamois Volants and enjoyed them so suggestions of similar would be especially welcome.

I'm thinking about and would welcome any input r.e. best guidebook, recommended routes for:

Salbit in Switzerland
Grimpsel (sp?) pass (Where Motorhead is)
Allefroide
Valle del Orco (is it all too hard?)
Val di Mello (is it all too hard?)
Ecrin rock....what is there? Other than Mieje routes
Cadarese

Have I missed anywhere?

Robert

In reply to Roberttaylor:


Filidor Salbit (2009) is prolly the best guidebook. I have that, albeit haven't been there (yet). But some of the other Filidor Plaisir and Extrem books also have most of the routes for Salbit.

Again, Filidor Plaisir series is good...

Others can comment on this.

Others can comment on this.

Nope, there is quite a bit of easier climbing as well... Versante Sud topos (Mello and also the Solo granito) are pretty OK. Some of the routes can also be found from Plaisir books.

Others can comment on this.

Others can comment on this.


You should also add the rest of Bregalia to the mix (e.g. Albigna). And depending on temps, some of the easier lines in Ticino can be memorable (e.g. ~800m sport route, Via del Veterano). Also stuff in Furka-pass (so when driving from Grimsel to Salbit) is supposed to be good.


In genera, while the local guides for said area is more comprehensive, RockFax type of selection guides might be a good call. And for E1 or easier climbers, the Filidor (Jurg von Känel) Plaisir books are about the best bet. Most of the Plaisir routes are semi bolted (usually the belays are bolted, as are runout sections, but still a proper rack might be required). And they are often french 6a or easier (so pretty much in the grade range you're after). http://www.filidor.ch/default.aspx?Lang=E


BTW. I see that you have mostly listed granite (or gneiss) locales, some of the limestone stuff in central CH is also fun (e.g. say Engelhörner).

In reply to HeMa:

Thanks, all useful info!

In reply to Roberttaylor:

We spent a month (me and my girlfriend) in the Uri Alps. Sustenpass, Furkapass, Grimselpass and Goshenental and wrote a brief blog about it here https://isitanexpedition.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/a-summer-in-the-alps/. It's perfect for your requirements and there is lots to go at. We did some amazing routes with rarely more than a few other people on them. It lies right on the boundary between plasir west (Grimselpass) and East (everything else), don't get the select guide it's got too few routes to be useful in it. Let me know if you have anymore questions about the area.

We looked into Val de Mello and it did look like there were fewer easier options. We spent a few days after Switzerland waiting for the rain to clear from Bregalia, which also looks like a good bet for you from our research although there seemed to be less easier stuff than the Uri. It didn't so went to the Ecrins at Allefriode. Lots to got at there as well although the higher mountain stuff involves moving over more snow and ice. It is a lot busier than the Uri Alps.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

The Dibona is an obvious addition.

Pretty much just buy this book: https://www.bmcshop.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=6572
and then climb all the routes in it

Have fun.

In reply to sheelba:


There are a few easier routes there but don't expect them to have much gear on them. One or two runners in a full rope length wouldn't be unusual.

Keep in mind that with the "Euro Warming" in the last few years (even for those who don't believe in "global warming"), lots of new moats and bigger bergshrunds have opened - (not to mention dangerous loose steep rubble) - so alpine routes that traditionally had "easy glacier approaches" are no longer in that condition - (or need to be done in May or early June). Make sure you check latest conditions.
. (even for _approaches_ to some huts: What's the Argentiere glacier / hut going to be like by August this year?) . (over-warm temps in the northern French Alps are well under way already in March).

Ailefroide, Valle dell'Orco: Not clear why these count as "alpine" areas. Anyway Ailefroide tends to be fairly slabby, if that's what you like (different from some of the most fun Mont Blanc granite). If you're more interested in steeper with more positive holds, the Ecrins has that too, but have to be fairly choosy about rock quality. And some of the high moderate routes with sounder rock have long / difficult approaches or descents.

Dolomites generally have rock quality not so good. Most of the easy/moderate routes with sound rock likely to be rather crowded in your time period. Perhaps look for classic routes with long / difficult approaches?

Ken

In reply to Roberttaylor:

For Sub E1 multi pitch the Dolomites has a huge range of possibilities so I would add that.

I would take out Val di Mello and replace it with the Bregalia which has a number of sub E1 Classics such as the Flat Iron and the Steger route on Punta Albinia (sp).

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep looking into Val di Mello as I'm out in June with a crew of stronger climbers, I can scratch it from July itinerary.

If anyone has any second hand guidebooks (especially those mentioned by HeMa) drop me a line!

R

In reply to Roberttaylor:

I could sell you the plasir select as we've got the South and East now. Personally I don't think it's a lot of use but I guess if you climb hard enough to have the choice of any route in the guide and don't want to do any cragging it might be useful.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Hi Robert

I live in the Ecrins so can help with Ecrins and Ailefroide,

Ailefroide is the gate way to the Ecrins national park and it is a great place lots of granite slabs, lots of stuff at the grade you are after, well bolted, there is a camp site in Ailefroide, and then easy to walk to the routes you want, it has its own guidebook
Escalades autour d'Ailefroide, it is also covered in the late cal sports climbing guidebook Briancon climbs, as well 3300 other sports routes and venues.

The Ecrins is France's biggest national park, some times known as the haute alpes, it is south of Grenoble and near to the Italian boarder, around the national park there are various access points with the their own climbing such as la Barade, ( similar to Ailefroide) I live on the briancon/Vallouise side so can help with there better,

The guide book for alpine rock route is Oisans nouveau Oisans sauvage livre est, (there is a west version for the other side of the Ecrins)
There are some great routes with in the park that would suit what you are after, and some great stuff just out side

Such as the Massif des Cerces this is a range if limestone towers and faces, up to 400m, most have a walk of 1 or 2 hours, the Rock is very good, most of the routes are bolted, and the best thing is that know knows about it so very quite, I love this place.

You also have the Tete D'Aval and Tenailles both big limestone faces, the Tete is Over 650 meters.

A good this about this area is the weather, getting it mainly from the med means very settled and normally good weather, so a good option if other areas are wet,

Happy to help if you would like further info on the area or routes

Drop me a line on Rob@alpbaseacademy.com

Cheers

In reply to ecrinscollective:

Thanks Rob, that's great. I hadn't heard of the limestone area but it sounds ideal for us and the guidebook recommendations are much appreciated.

I might drop you a line if I have any more questions.

Robert

Since you seem interested in the non-alpine stuff around Briancon + Ailefroide, I'll mention there's lots more rock types than just granite and limestone. Get the newest edition of the Briancon guidebook.

Classic alpine routes nearby are the link-up of the Aiguille Sialouze traverse with the SSE ridge of the Petit Pelvoux. And the traverse of the Barre des Ecrins. Long approaches and/or descents, perhaps difficult.

Over in the NorthWest side of the Ecrins in range of La Berarde lots more slabby granite on the lower rock. Classic alpine rock _without_ such long approaches around Refuge Soreiller, above all several routes on the Aiguille Dibona (but there's other options).

Also some shorter alpine rock routes with shorter approaches from Refuge Chatelleret (north from La Berarde) -- which is on the way up to the great rock of the south face of the Meije (with more tricky descent).

Ken

In reply to sheelba:

Interested...I've messaged you.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Add to the routes mentioned by badmarmot and Ken those on the Contreforts des Bans - some good ones there at about TD/6a-b with a simple, albeit perhaps a bit tedious (in a dry year), approach on a big neve. I found Pas d'Asile pour Pazuzu particularly fun. Great surroundings with le Bans, Bonvoisin, etc.

If you are based in the Ecrins at all, then as badmarmot says, visit the Cerces. But, perhaps also visit the Queyras for a bit of variety. Gradually brits are getting in there for ski-touring in winter (and of course for Ceillac ice), but its quiet in summer. Good routes include the Taillante (for its bizarreness, not necessarily for the quality of the climbing, which is in itself quite repetitive), the ridge on the Toillies and of course Viso (E ridge is worth doing as a long, alpine-esque rock route, doable in boots) - from Viso you should see from the Ecrins to Mont Blanc to Monte Rosa to the med.

The valley climbing around Briancon spans numerous rock types. As mentioned, just get Briancon Climbs and start ticking what takes your fancy. Everything from thuggy limestone (Ponteil) to slabby granite (obv. Ailefroide) to decent conglomerate (nr. Guillestre).

A few comments on the other routes/areas talked about:
- Sialouze is definitely worth doing - perfect rock, sublime scenery, amenable grade, continuous interest, well-equipped descent... what more could you ask for? A bit like the Dibona of the Ailefoide side, insomuch as its the only peak on this side that has that perfect, golden granite. As for the S ridge of the Petit Pelvoux, the descent doesn't really quite fit the novice glacier criteria - the descent of the Violettes is non-trivial, often involving abbing into a schrund etc etc. Look into it yourself though by googling the traverse of pelvoux (same descent) - you may think its fine.
- On the Dibona the route to do, in my opinion, is definitely the Voie des Savoyards. Like the Madier, its not totally equipped (probably a little less in situ stuff than the Madier from what I remember). There will inevitably be hordes on the latter, and for good reason - it too is a quality route. But, the Savoyards definitely feels more of an adventure, taking in different faces of the Dibona as well as having more varied climbing (including some memorable traverses). Visite Obligatoire, whilst involving sustained top quality 6a sport climbing all the way up, is just that - a sport climb. For me, it is therefore immediately less memorable, less fulfilling and less worthwhile. That's not to say its not great fun though! The Nains is a nice easy, short route up the side if that's what fits the bill; it can be nicely combined with a visit to both the Dibona summit and the adjacent Soreiller summit.
- The classic lower-grade route on the Tenailles de Montbrison is Eperon Renaud. Good climb, but the crux pitch is pretty polished now... Great atmosphere and no snow make up for it though.

For big rock routes with little snow approach at about E1 I'm surprised nobody has suggested the Cassin on Badile (to add to the Bregaglia routes listed already). Quite simply wonderful! You won't be alone, but it will be one to remember nonetheless. Do the walk back the next day (either kip in one of the bivi huts after crossing the first col the same day as climbing the route) or, if the wallet allows, stay at the Gianetti - a typically chaotic but lovely Italian hut. Doing the latter allows you to do the Spigolo Vinci the day after the Cassin - another classic. The walk back round to CH isn't as loose/horrible/bad as people make out. To be quite honest, I thought it was really nice and definitely a bonus! Much better than descending the N ridge unless you know it already! If too hard, consider the N ridge for an ascent route - also very good.

My wildcard: the Maritime Alps. One of my very favourite bit of the alps. Much quieter, lovely relaxed people and a bit lost in time. On the Italian side, the Corno Stella is soooo good! 500m face with a ledge at half-height so that different bottom+top half combos are possible. Also means that if the longest routes aren't chosen, two full ascents of the face in a day can be done (or, more easily, 1 full + 1 from the ledge). Simple abseil descent. Ask Marco at the hut for route recommendations. Argentera and Nasta also very good. On the French side, the Cougourde is the place to go! Brilliant routes, a nice lake to camp by (or use the hut). Both sides can be quite busy at weekends, because walkins are short (sub 2 hours) and both are within a few hours' drive of major populations (Nice and Turin). But during the week - dead!

In reply to tjhare1:

But it's not required to descend the Violettes glacier. Instead can head toward the summit of main Pelvoux, then descend the normal route and return to the same hut.
Anyway the point of of the Petit Pelvoux is not that the rock is of similar quality to the Sialouze -- rather to get some additional climbing as payback for the non-short approach work.

A different way to accomplish that would be to do a second route on the Sialouze.

Ken

In reply to kenr:

Fair comment - apologies! Wasn't something I considered when I did it (purely for aesthetic reasons).

To the same end, could walk up to the Sele hut, do the Kelle route (top notch Ecrins wildness, but long at 15-17hrs guidebook time hut-to-hut) on the Sans Nom, descend to the Pelvoux hut, then do Sialouze the next day.