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I have BT '57mb fibre' broadband (it's copper to the house though). Our area is not covered by Virgin and mobile signal is poor so I'm stuck with the Openreach network.
Despite numerous engineer visits, my speed has never been better than 25mbps up and 5mbps down. Recently it's actually deteriorated down to 15-18/3-4. Openreach have basically said that it's not getting any better so all I can do is ask for a discount on renewal, which I have but the price BT are offering is still an increase.
Now, it seems I have two options. Switch my 'fibre' package to another provider, say plusnet, and save a few quid and continue to receive presumably identical broadband. OR switch to an 'non-fibre' package and save quite a few quid more. However, I'm not sure what the effect of that would be. Presumably no actual change will be made to the cables carrying my internet. I'll just be throttled back to ADSL speeds? Given that I'm practically down to ADSL speeds right now that seems like the way to go. Although it means if Openreach do decide to improve things I won't get the benefit...
Thoughts on whether this is technically sound? Recommendations for suppliers?
Despite numerous engineer visits, my speed has never been better than 25mbps up and 5mbps down. Recently it's actually deteriorated down to 15-18/3-4. Openreach have basically said that it's not getting any better so all I can do is ask for a discount on renewal, which I have but the price BT are offering is still an increase.
Now, it seems I have two options. Switch my 'fibre' package to another provider, say plusnet, and save a few quid and continue to receive presumably identical broadband. OR switch to an 'non-fibre' package and save quite a few quid more. However, I'm not sure what the effect of that would be. Presumably no actual change will be made to the cables carrying my internet. I'll just be throttled back to ADSL speeds? Given that I'm practically down to ADSL speeds right now that seems like the way to go. Although it means if Openreach do decide to improve things I won't get the benefit...
Thoughts on whether this is technically sound? Recommendations for suppliers?
In reply to Oujmik:
Plusnet are much better in terms of customer service, often cheaper as well. I left BT in despair at theirs (when we had a problem).
If you search there is loads of information out there for local areas, best service, best deals etc.
Plusnet are much better in terms of customer service, often cheaper as well. I left BT in despair at theirs (when we had a problem).
If you search there is loads of information out there for local areas, best service, best deals etc.
Post edited at 19:10
In reply to Oujmik:
Have you really had 25mbps upload speeds, with only 5mbps download? When I was on ADSL it was about 2mbps and 1mbps respectively. Now with fibre it's about 30 and 10. I've not experienced a faster upload speed than download before, it just caught my eye.
Have you really had 25mbps upload speeds, with only 5mbps download? When I was on ADSL it was about 2mbps and 1mbps respectively. Now with fibre it's about 30 and 10. I've not experienced a faster upload speed than download before, it just caught my eye.
In reply to Oujmik:
You might well find that switching to ADSL dropped your speed significantly. Personally, I'd just be looking for the cheapest fibre deal available. If the drop from 25 to 15 has bothered you, you'll REALLY notice the drop to ADSL. It's always possible that part of the problem is "contention" with your neighbours, in which case switching to a different provider might even improve your speeds (though this is based on out of date knowledge of ADSL connections, so might not apply to fibre).
Making this post from my home which gets, on a good day, unreliable 3Mbps download speeds so I have limited sympathy for your plight!
You might well find that switching to ADSL dropped your speed significantly. Personally, I'd just be looking for the cheapest fibre deal available. If the drop from 25 to 15 has bothered you, you'll REALLY notice the drop to ADSL. It's always possible that part of the problem is "contention" with your neighbours, in which case switching to a different provider might even improve your speeds (though this is based on out of date knowledge of ADSL connections, so might not apply to fibre).
Making this post from my home which gets, on a good day, unreliable 3Mbps download speeds so I have limited sympathy for your plight!
In reply to NottsRich:
Sorry, I meant 25 down 5 up. The quoted max speeds for the ADSL packages are 17 down, 2 up. Which is not much different to what I get currently.
The thing which is confusing me is surely the fibre and ADSL offers are actually the same technically? The cable to the home is always copper and the cable to the cabinet is always fibre (once it's been upgraded). Or does moving to 'fibre' mean your signal is carried over a different protocol or something?
EDIT: I also asked this on the BT community forums and found the following link useful
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/
It seems that there is a different protocol for ADSL ('fibre' is VDSL) and the most I could expect from that would be 5mbps so I'll discount that option!
Sorry, I meant 25 down 5 up. The quoted max speeds for the ADSL packages are 17 down, 2 up. Which is not much different to what I get currently.
The thing which is confusing me is surely the fibre and ADSL offers are actually the same technically? The cable to the home is always copper and the cable to the cabinet is always fibre (once it's been upgraded). Or does moving to 'fibre' mean your signal is carried over a different protocol or something?
EDIT: I also asked this on the BT community forums and found the following link useful
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/
It seems that there is a different protocol for ADSL ('fibre' is VDSL) and the most I could expect from that would be 5mbps so I'll discount that option!
Post edited at 19:35
In reply to Oujmik:
No need to boast! I have 8 down. This is fibre to the cabinet after a round of investment (so no new upgrades due for now) but the cabinet is over the hills and far away.
I'm hoping to switch to a SpaceX gigabit very low earth orbit satellite link in 5 years and he done with UK telcos for good. And good riddance. Some would say that's an optimistic timeline for SpaceX but we aren't going anywhere and BT aren't doing anything... Current satellite services are to expensive for movie streaming.
> Sorry, I meant 25 down
No need to boast! I have 8 down. This is fibre to the cabinet after a round of investment (so no new upgrades due for now) but the cabinet is over the hills and far away.
I'm hoping to switch to a SpaceX gigabit very low earth orbit satellite link in 5 years and he done with UK telcos for good. And good riddance. Some would say that's an optimistic timeline for SpaceX but we aren't going anywhere and BT aren't doing anything... Current satellite services are to expensive for movie streaming.
Post edited at 19:39
In reply to Oujmik: I'd love those sort of speeds, i get 1.67mb download and 1.01mb upload on adsl which is total crap. I was talking to a mate who now lives in Florida and he gets 1gb download speeds, the realms of fantasy for me.
In reply to jonathan shepherd:
At the risk of turning this into a 4 Yorkshiremen sketch, I , a mile or so from Dundee, never get more than 1.34mbs download. Once it tested at 0.01mbs.
At the risk of turning this into a 4 Yorkshiremen sketch, I , a mile or so from Dundee, never get more than 1.34mbs download. Once it tested at 0.01mbs.
3
In reply to Oujmik:
I had a similar problem. There's no fiber where I live and I was getting 1-3mb down at best, BT then sold me a product they said would give me between 7-11mb down but it didn't work so after a protracted "battle" with BT I managed to get a full refund.
My solution was to check where the local 4G network masts were in my area using this neat tool, just put in your postcode then zoom.
https://www.mastdata.com/37/37_map_mobile_mast.aspx?Table=15&AdTyID=43&...
I then purchased the following 4G wifi router
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/ce3/Huawei-Unlocked-E5186-Wireless-Mobile-Wi-Fi-...
This router can be connected to an external antenna to improve the signal strength - one of these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-External-Periodic-antenna-highest/dp/B00OZ2...
I then took out a SIM only contract with the service provider that had the best coverage for my area according to the mast data map for me this was EE. They had a contract for a monthly 64GB SIM for £30.50 and I got two of these because I use 2-4GB data per day. Most of my usage is for work so one SIM was paid for through work which was nice. The SIM's also come with a portable mifi router which is neat if you travel.
I now have up to 30mbs down and up which is light years better than anything BT/Open Reach could offer.
The only thing to note is where you position the Huawei router if you don't use an antenna, I have it in a room upstairs next to a window and get 4 out of 5 bars signal. However given the position of the router I had to buy a wifi booster to get good coverage throughout the house although boosters are pretty cheap.
All of this worked for me - good luck
I had a similar problem. There's no fiber where I live and I was getting 1-3mb down at best, BT then sold me a product they said would give me between 7-11mb down but it didn't work so after a protracted "battle" with BT I managed to get a full refund.
My solution was to check where the local 4G network masts were in my area using this neat tool, just put in your postcode then zoom.
https://www.mastdata.com/37/37_map_mobile_mast.aspx?Table=15&AdTyID=43&...
I then purchased the following 4G wifi router
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/ce3/Huawei-Unlocked-E5186-Wireless-Mobile-Wi-Fi-...
This router can be connected to an external antenna to improve the signal strength - one of these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-External-Periodic-antenna-highest/dp/B00OZ2...
I then took out a SIM only contract with the service provider that had the best coverage for my area according to the mast data map for me this was EE. They had a contract for a monthly 64GB SIM for £30.50 and I got two of these because I use 2-4GB data per day. Most of my usage is for work so one SIM was paid for through work which was nice. The SIM's also come with a portable mifi router which is neat if you travel.
I now have up to 30mbs down and up which is light years better than anything BT/Open Reach could offer.
The only thing to note is where you position the Huawei router if you don't use an antenna, I have it in a room upstairs next to a window and get 4 out of 5 bars signal. However given the position of the router I had to buy a wifi booster to get good coverage throughout the house although boosters are pretty cheap.
All of this worked for me - good luck
2
In reply to Oujmik:
Depends how much you value the speed vs. cost and your total monthly usage.
Andrews & Arnold are a very good broadband supplier that aggressively investigate openreach performance on your behalf. If there is more 'speed' to be had out of your line, they will find it. They may also reduce your speed in favour of other improvements (errors or latency) that will make your effective performance better.
Downside is they are quite expensive and most packages have data quotas for daytime use, more generous in the evening and effectively unlimited in the early hours. Maybe 40-60quid a month for fttc fibre package.
They will however sell you a bare copper line with no phone service for 10 a month so you can dump the expensive BT line if you don't actually use the phone. Generally, they request a new length of cable for this, which solves problems too.
They do have a guarantee to take on a existing broadband fault and fix it in 30days or give you your money back. They have never had to.
I have no connection with them other than as a customer. Very impressed. When you call them a network engineer answers the phone after a couple of rings and can actually fix things.
Steve
Depends how much you value the speed vs. cost and your total monthly usage.
Andrews & Arnold are a very good broadband supplier that aggressively investigate openreach performance on your behalf. If there is more 'speed' to be had out of your line, they will find it. They may also reduce your speed in favour of other improvements (errors or latency) that will make your effective performance better.
Downside is they are quite expensive and most packages have data quotas for daytime use, more generous in the evening and effectively unlimited in the early hours. Maybe 40-60quid a month for fttc fibre package.
They will however sell you a bare copper line with no phone service for 10 a month so you can dump the expensive BT line if you don't actually use the phone. Generally, they request a new length of cable for this, which solves problems too.
They do have a guarantee to take on a existing broadband fault and fix it in 30days or give you your money back. They have never had to.
I have no connection with them other than as a customer. Very impressed. When you call them a network engineer answers the phone after a couple of rings and can actually fix things.
Steve
1
In reply to Oujmik:
Are you actually maxxing out your 25/1Mb? Lots of people complain about their speed when the bottleneck isn't the 'last mile' to their house, it's the general internet slowing down in the evenings. If this is the case then a 'business' service with lower contention rate will probably improve things for you, especially if you're in a rural area with few businesses. How to tell if you're maxxing out - if you only use one machine and it's Windows run task manager and look at the network tab - if the utilisation graph flatlines at the 25/5Mb levels then you're maxing out. If it's purely peaky then you're not. If you're using multiple machines it's harder to tell, but I guess if you look at the graphs and the speed drops when someone else in the house is doing something online then you're also maxxing out.
In terms of fibre vs copper, check this excellent site out:-
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/fibre-optic-broadband.htm
Are you actually maxxing out your 25/1Mb? Lots of people complain about their speed when the bottleneck isn't the 'last mile' to their house, it's the general internet slowing down in the evenings. If this is the case then a 'business' service with lower contention rate will probably improve things for you, especially if you're in a rural area with few businesses. How to tell if you're maxxing out - if you only use one machine and it's Windows run task manager and look at the network tab - if the utilisation graph flatlines at the 25/5Mb levels then you're maxing out. If it's purely peaky then you're not. If you're using multiple machines it's harder to tell, but I guess if you look at the graphs and the speed drops when someone else in the house is doing something online then you're also maxxing out.
In terms of fibre vs copper, check this excellent site out:-
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/fibre-optic-broadband.htm
In reply to Toerag:
Well, it's down to 15 now. I'd probably not be bothering doing anything about it if it was still at 25. It's just galling to pay more for something that's got worse. The people who aggressive pursue Openreach sound interesting but can't really see myself paying a big premium just for the hassle of more engineer visits and maybe eventually a return to 25mbps.
I only use the maximum capacity when downloading software updates etc, so for general use it's not a massive problem. However, it's definitely the connection that is the bottleneck as I always check the sync speed of the modem by looking at its logs rather than relying on a speed checker.
Well, it's down to 15 now. I'd probably not be bothering doing anything about it if it was still at 25. It's just galling to pay more for something that's got worse. The people who aggressive pursue Openreach sound interesting but can't really see myself paying a big premium just for the hassle of more engineer visits and maybe eventually a return to 25mbps.
I only use the maximum capacity when downloading software updates etc, so for general use it's not a massive problem. However, it's definitely the connection that is the bottleneck as I always check the sync speed of the modem by looking at its logs rather than relying on a speed checker.
In reply to streapadair:
Too late.
28.8k modem on Demon Internet ISP took 3 hours t' load Netscape Navigator home page
> At the risk of turning this into a 4 Yorkshiremen sketch
Too late.
28.8k modem on Demon Internet ISP took 3 hours t' load Netscape Navigator home page
1
In reply to Oujmik:
Bizarrely, and not wishing to boast, we live in the Black Mountains- a very remote location - and last year were upgraded to fibre to premises and now receive 45mb down/25mb up. This was after a protracted battle with BT and Openreach to improve a very poor copper service. They really are a nightmare to deal with though and grossly inefficient. Oddly enough, my school (I'm deputy) is on the same exchange and has had fibre cables running past the school on poles (all fibre is on poles here) for over a year now. All the hardware is in place and an Openreach engineer told me he connected a neighbour of the school to fibre in January but BT repeatedly deny it's presence and insist there are no plans to bring fibre to our area. Strange company.
Bizarrely, and not wishing to boast, we live in the Black Mountains- a very remote location - and last year were upgraded to fibre to premises and now receive 45mb down/25mb up. This was after a protracted battle with BT and Openreach to improve a very poor copper service. They really are a nightmare to deal with though and grossly inefficient. Oddly enough, my school (I'm deputy) is on the same exchange and has had fibre cables running past the school on poles (all fibre is on poles here) for over a year now. All the hardware is in place and an Openreach engineer told me he connected a neighbour of the school to fibre in January but BT repeatedly deny it's presence and insist there are no plans to bring fibre to our area. Strange company.
1
In reply to Oujmik:
6.56 Mbps download
0.84 Mbps upload
Latency: 61 ms
Server: Sydney
Your Internet speed is slow
Nuff said.
6.56 Mbps download
0.84 Mbps upload
Latency: 61 ms
Server: Sydney
Your Internet speed is slow
Nuff said.
In reply to Oujmik:
UK Telcos are all rubbish, it appears - some are worse than others though.
My sister gets a couple of Mb up and down. She lives not far from Ludlow. BT have been appalling - no usable internet at all for a couple of months. Population of Shropshire about 485k spread over 348 square km.
I live on the other side of the world in a city with a population of about 127k, spread over an area of 255 square km. Pretty congested network currently so have dropped down to 600Mb down and 550Mb up. The 1.5Gb download of a new OSX took about 20 seconds last night.
Also, we don't have Telford
b
UK Telcos are all rubbish, it appears - some are worse than others though.
My sister gets a couple of Mb up and down. She lives not far from Ludlow. BT have been appalling - no usable internet at all for a couple of months. Population of Shropshire about 485k spread over 348 square km.
I live on the other side of the world in a city with a population of about 127k, spread over an area of 255 square km. Pretty congested network currently so have dropped down to 600Mb down and 550Mb up. The 1.5Gb download of a new OSX took about 20 seconds last night.
Also, we don't have Telford
b
In reply to ben b:
The good thing about Telford is that it gives everybody else in Shropshire somewhere to hate.
(As well as the external target of Hereford)
> Also, we don't have Telford b
The good thing about Telford is that it gives everybody else in Shropshire somewhere to hate.
(As well as the external target of Hereford)
1
In reply to ben b:
Can I ask how much you have to pay for that?
> I live on the other side of the world in a city with a population of about 127k, spread over an area of 255 square km. Pretty congested network currently so have dropped down to 600Mb down and 550Mb up.
Can I ask how much you have to pay for that?
In reply to Oujmik:
Try rural Derbyshire where we have never exceeded 1.0mbps and typically average 0.7. Watching iPlayer on a computer is not possible. BT is the only option and when we signed up got 6 months free BT sport even although we hadn't the speed to use it. Eventually went for satellite broadband which is very good but expensive.
Try rural Derbyshire where we have never exceeded 1.0mbps and typically average 0.7. Watching iPlayer on a computer is not possible. BT is the only option and when we signed up got 6 months free BT sport even although we hadn't the speed to use it. Eventually went for satellite broadband which is very good but expensive.
In reply to Offwidth:
Don't think anyone has mentioned - but Plusnet are BT - don't fall for the cloth cap image !
> Plusnet are much better in terms of customer service, often cheaper as well. I left BT in despair at theirs (when we had a problem).If you search there is loads of information out there for local areas, best service, best deals etc.
Don't think anyone has mentioned - but Plusnet are BT - don't fall for the cloth cap image !
In reply to streapadair:
I know that feeling. We get up to 1. 8mbsec on a good day, often we get nothing yet are still expected to pay the same as people getting 10 times the speed. Grrr. Moving house soon so it will be bye bye BT WHOOPEE.
I know that feeling. We get up to 1. 8mbsec on a good day, often we get nothing yet are still expected to pay the same as people getting 10 times the speed. Grrr. Moving house soon so it will be bye bye BT WHOOPEE.
Post edited at 15:09
In reply to Oujmik:
BT are getting some unwarranted criticism here. Unless you change to fibre, door to door, other suppliers are unlikely to be able to improve on the speeds as they will use the same copper, fibre and even perhaps the same hardware in the local exchange.
Al
BT are getting some unwarranted criticism here. Unless you change to fibre, door to door, other suppliers are unlikely to be able to improve on the speeds as they will use the same copper, fibre and even perhaps the same hardware in the local exchange.
Al
1
In reply to robhorton:
Of course. Slightly different as package includes landline and Sky HD (+ Sport), but NZD180 - currently about GBP 100 a month for the three together.
B
> Can I ask how much you have to pay for that?
Of course. Slightly different as package includes landline and Sky HD (+ Sport), but NZD180 - currently about GBP 100 a month for the three together.
B
In reply to xyz:
I too have been forced to go down the same route, only I'm on a data contract with 4G router supplied for 'free'.
There's a BT fibre cabinet 300 metres from my house but it's on a different exchange so I can't access it. Otherwise, from my local exchange, fibre by pole has been installed up to 1.5 miles away. Openreach engineers have confirmed that the fibre optic line, installed 18-20 months ago, isn't live and that's due to a decision made by BT who, bizarrely, totally deny it's even been installed as far as it has. Consequently, on copper, we were at best getting 0.42Mbps down and up - which is next to useless.
EE 4G consistently gives 48-50Mbps down and 32-35Mbps up. Very occasionally I'll get >60Mbps down.
I'm extremely happy and BT can simply get stuffed.
To the OP: Like Lee, I can only suggest you give this option some consideration.
Good luck.
I too have been forced to go down the same route, only I'm on a data contract with 4G router supplied for 'free'.
There's a BT fibre cabinet 300 metres from my house but it's on a different exchange so I can't access it. Otherwise, from my local exchange, fibre by pole has been installed up to 1.5 miles away. Openreach engineers have confirmed that the fibre optic line, installed 18-20 months ago, isn't live and that's due to a decision made by BT who, bizarrely, totally deny it's even been installed as far as it has. Consequently, on copper, we were at best getting 0.42Mbps down and up - which is next to useless.
EE 4G consistently gives 48-50Mbps down and 32-35Mbps up. Very occasionally I'll get >60Mbps down.
I'm extremely happy and BT can simply get stuffed.
To the OP: Like Lee, I can only suggest you give this option some consideration.
Good luck.
In reply to Oujmik:
I recently went fibre to the property with BT.
It's not cheap. The price went up significantly after the introduction deal. But I get a steady 50mbps down, 10 up. And there are options to 300mbps down.
I don't use it for tv as my exchange is prone to flooding.
I recently went fibre to the property with BT.
It's not cheap. The price went up significantly after the introduction deal. But I get a steady 50mbps down, 10 up. And there are options to 300mbps down.
I don't use it for tv as my exchange is prone to flooding.
In reply to dunc56:
What do you mean by this? I know we've had much better customer service when changing from By to plusnet. Get through quicker and speak to someone in the UK who understands what you are talking about. Cheaper too.
> Don't think anyone has mentioned - but Plusnet are BT - don't fall for the cloth cap image !
What do you mean by this? I know we've had much better customer service when changing from By to plusnet. Get through quicker and speak to someone in the UK who understands what you are talking about. Cheaper too.
In reply to ben b:
I live in Shropshire, and no, not in Telford.
We get 0.25mb to the house.
One option is to look at microwave links. We use Shropshire Broadband - dish on the house and a receiver on the a church spire about 6 miles away. Now we have 20mb and 2mb down, can be faster but I'm tight.
Another thing to look at is the modem - not an issue for me unless the squirrels have the interweb, but he could try switching to 5ghz, where there is less signal congestion.
I live in Shropshire, and no, not in Telford.
We get 0.25mb to the house.
One option is to look at microwave links. We use Shropshire Broadband - dish on the house and a receiver on the a church spire about 6 miles away. Now we have 20mb and 2mb down, can be faster but I'm tight.
Another thing to look at is the modem - not an issue for me unless the squirrels have the interweb, but he could try switching to 5ghz, where there is less signal congestion.
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