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In reply to ianstevens:
Interesting question. I'm presuming he'll need to use pacers as navigators, unless he's reliant on GPS or has recced the route?
Interesting question. I'm presuming he'll need to use pacers as navigators, unless he's reliant on GPS or has recced the route?
In reply to Tom Last:
You'd have to have him on any 'most likely to' list. Wondering out loud how much difference the real micro-choices of nuanced route choice add up? Something the real Lakes specialist will always have an advantage on.
You'd have to have him on any 'most likely to' list. Wondering out loud how much difference the real micro-choices of nuanced route choice add up? Something the real Lakes specialist will always have an advantage on.
In reply to steveriley:
I think route choices and navigation, (plus the weather...), are the key factors. Jornet is incredibly fast and no stranger to mental downhill descents, but I think local knowledge is a massive advantage.
> You'd have to have him on any 'most likely to' list. Wondering out loud how much difference the real micro-choices of nuanced route choice add up? Something the real Lakes specialist will always have an advantage on.
I think route choices and navigation, (plus the weather...), are the key factors. Jornet is incredibly fast and no stranger to mental downhill descents, but I think local knowledge is a massive advantage.
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In reply to Tom Last:
There'll be no shortage of local expertise available to do the pacing and the micro nav, it's the culture of the round, and he's been in contact with BG people and getting badgered about coming over for it for quite a few years now.
It's lining up to be a spectacular year, Ricky Lightfoot has signalled his intent to go for the record as well (and coming after Rob Jebb's second fastest ever time last summer!)
Hopefully not... have you seen the film of him setting the Matterhorn record?!
There'll be no shortage of local expertise available to do the pacing and the micro nav, it's the culture of the round, and he's been in contact with BG people and getting badgered about coming over for it for quite a few years now.
It's lining up to be a spectacular year, Ricky Lightfoot has signalled his intent to go for the record as well (and coming after Rob Jebb's second fastest ever time last summer!)
> I predict a rescue on Broad Stand.
Hopefully not... have you seen the film of him setting the Matterhorn record?!
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In reply to Ridge:
Maybe he'll get shut down trying to find the new way into Fitz Park, not that that happened to me...
...it did happen to me
Maybe he'll get shut down trying to find the new way into Fitz Park, not that that happened to me...
...it did happen to me
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In reply to Tom Last:
Great news.
Current second fastest time is 14:30, no?
Fastest relay is 13:14(?) so you'd hope he'd team up with some good pacers/navigators. Although Billy apparently had ~20 minutes of rest so still pretty slim margins.
Great news.
Current second fastest time is 14:30, no?
Fastest relay is 13:14(?) so you'd hope he'd team up with some good pacers/navigators. Although Billy apparently had ~20 minutes of rest so still pretty slim margins.
In reply to elliptic:
Don't forget Tom Last has also cracked the Fitz Park leg, so the record may yet tumble
> It's lining up to be a spectacular year, Ricky Lightfoot has signalled his intent to go for the record as well (and coming after Rob Jebb's second fastest ever time last summer!)
Don't forget Tom Last has also cracked the Fitz Park leg, so the record may yet tumble
In reply to Ridge:
I imagine I'll get get distracted by the scones or something at that point during my rematch, so Billy Bland should be safe from this challenger at least
I imagine I'll get get distracted by the scones or something at that point during my rematch, so Billy Bland should be safe from this challenger at least
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In reply to ianstevens:
I'd put money on it! The man is superhuman.
> Could Billy Bland's 13:53 be about to come under some pressure perhaps?
I'd put money on it! The man is superhuman.
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In reply to Tom Last:
By rights he should take a sizeable chunk out of the record (given weather conditions). We are looking at professional against amateur, advances in diet, equipment,backup, knowledge, routefinding and possibly a faster course?
He should smash it rather than shave a little off. I would be disappointed if he isn't below 13.30, he should be!
By rights he should take a sizeable chunk out of the record (given weather conditions). We are looking at professional against amateur, advances in diet, equipment,backup, knowledge, routefinding and possibly a faster course?
He should smash it rather than shave a little off. I would be disappointed if he isn't below 13.30, he should be!
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In reply to Tom Last:
The main problem I see is finding a time gap in his schedule when he won't be absolutely knackered.
Assuming he is attempting Everest in May, since he has lots of races Sept.
He then seems to be doing something insanely hard every 3 or 4 weeks, I mean UTMB, then Glen Coe 2 weeks later !!!
He does have a question mark against Marathon du Mont Blanc at end of June - is that because he might not have recovered from Everest, or maybe he'll choose to do the BGR in June ?
It's going to be a fun summer following all these exploits
The main problem I see is finding a time gap in his schedule when he won't be absolutely knackered.
Assuming he is attempting Everest in May, since he has lots of races Sept.
He then seems to be doing something insanely hard every 3 or 4 weeks, I mean UTMB, then Glen Coe 2 weeks later !!!
He does have a question mark against Marathon du Mont Blanc at end of June - is that because he might not have recovered from Everest, or maybe he'll choose to do the BGR in June ?
It's going to be a fun summer following all these exploits
In reply to Moley:
Billy's record is an almost mythical thing. It's only in the last 12 months with fantastic runs by Jasmine Paris and Rob Jebb has the record seen as approachable. As good as Billy was though, it was his knowledge of those hill that made the difference. Journet could beat the record, but it is no sure thing.
I'd love to see him have a go at some of Kenny Stuart's records.
Billy's record is an almost mythical thing. It's only in the last 12 months with fantastic runs by Jasmine Paris and Rob Jebb has the record seen as approachable. As good as Billy was though, it was his knowledge of those hill that made the difference. Journet could beat the record, but it is no sure thing.
I'd love to see him have a go at some of Kenny Stuart's records.
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In reply to The New NickB:
I agree Billy B's is an outstanding record, like Seb Coe's 800m, but the record should be beaten and in this era of professionalism there is no excuse for not doing so.
Killian ought to knock a good chunk out of it, everything is in his favour (except being a local), a hardened and multi talented mountain runner against a part time fell runner and farmer.
Put it like this, if he doesn't trash the record then companies should tear up their sponsorships, all forget about diets, scientific training regimes, "run faster" trainers and gear. Be great if the Billy's record still stands but no excuses if the professionals fail to break it.
I agree Billy B's is an outstanding record, like Seb Coe's 800m, but the record should be beaten and in this era of professionalism there is no excuse for not doing so.
Killian ought to knock a good chunk out of it, everything is in his favour (except being a local), a hardened and multi talented mountain runner against a part time fell runner and farmer.
Put it like this, if he doesn't trash the record then companies should tear up their sponsorships, all forget about diets, scientific training regimes, "run faster" trainers and gear. Be great if the Billy's record still stands but no excuses if the professionals fail to break it.
Post edited at 23:20
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In reply to Moley:
The difference with Coe's 800 is that it didn't require local knowledge. Actually, I remember being told it would never be beaten, in fact it "only" lasted 15 years. There are plenty records that are older.
The difference with Coe's 800 is that it didn't require local knowledge. Actually, I remember being told it would never be beaten, in fact it "only" lasted 15 years. There are plenty records that are older.
In reply to Tom Last:
The local knowledge and micro-nav point is overplayed. It's not that important.
L1, you might save a minute or two by taking a good contour onto Blencathra, and a minute or two coming down the parachute rather than halls fell. L2, there is nothing in it - follow main paths, or take a cheeky shortcut here or there. L3, you need to find Broadstand - the alternatives are 5-10 minutes slower, coming off Scafell the scree descent saves a minute or two. L4, there are some good trods off the main ridge, but if you keep an eye out for them you can't miss them, if you do it will cost you 5 minutes on some horrible rocky ground, coming off gable there is the Borrowdale fell race descent or the tourist descent - probably only 30 seconds difference for a good descender. L5 there are good and bad lines off Robinson but only a minute in it if you are still strong.
So I reckon with no local knowledge a GPS track and a map in his hand he would only be 20 odd minutes slower than he could be with good local support. I would be surprised if he didn't take a good hour off the record with or without support. That said, I think that he will probably get 5 of the fastest Lakeland runners there are to support him and they will have an amazing time trying to keep up!
The local knowledge and micro-nav point is overplayed. It's not that important.
L1, you might save a minute or two by taking a good contour onto Blencathra, and a minute or two coming down the parachute rather than halls fell. L2, there is nothing in it - follow main paths, or take a cheeky shortcut here or there. L3, you need to find Broadstand - the alternatives are 5-10 minutes slower, coming off Scafell the scree descent saves a minute or two. L4, there are some good trods off the main ridge, but if you keep an eye out for them you can't miss them, if you do it will cost you 5 minutes on some horrible rocky ground, coming off gable there is the Borrowdale fell race descent or the tourist descent - probably only 30 seconds difference for a good descender. L5 there are good and bad lines off Robinson but only a minute in it if you are still strong.
So I reckon with no local knowledge a GPS track and a map in his hand he would only be 20 odd minutes slower than he could be with good local support. I would be surprised if he didn't take a good hour off the record with or without support. That said, I think that he will probably get 5 of the fastest Lakeland runners there are to support him and they will have an amazing time trying to keep up!
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In reply to steelbru:
For someone as good as Killian a week should be plenty to recover from UTMB - I reckon he is planning on doing the BG in that two week gap as it's on the way!
> The main problem I see is finding a time gap in his schedule when he won't be absolutely knackered. Assuming he is attempting Everest in May, since he has lots of races Sept.He then seems to be doing something insanely hard every 3 or 4 weeks, I mean UTMB, then Glen Coe 2 weeks later !!!
For someone as good as Killian a week should be plenty to recover from UTMB - I reckon he is planning on doing the BG in that two week gap as it's on the way!
Post edited at 15:53
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In reply to Tom Last:
On the plus side, the quick lads who are fancying a crack at it know that they had better get it done this summer before KJ turns up and knocks it out of reach.
On the plus side, the quick lads who are fancying a crack at it know that they had better get it done this summer before KJ turns up and knocks it out of reach.
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In reply to ablackett:
My thoughts exactly, with top pacers/navigators, good conditions and visibility and no night running (a daytime only jaunt for him), GPS backup, i don't see local knowledge being an issue. He will simply follow his pacers as fast as he can, or vice versa!
Predictions as to how fast? Given a good day and all to plan then i would expect 13 - 13.15hours. Sub 13 not impossible.
Let's have some more predictions now and come back to it after he's run
My thoughts exactly, with top pacers/navigators, good conditions and visibility and no night running (a daytime only jaunt for him), GPS backup, i don't see local knowledge being an issue. He will simply follow his pacers as fast as he can, or vice versa!
Predictions as to how fast? Given a good day and all to plan then i would expect 13 - 13.15hours. Sub 13 not impossible.
Let's have some more predictions now and come back to it after he's run
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In reply to Moley:
12h 53. He won't want to take the piss so just an hour off the unbeatable record.
12h 53. He won't want to take the piss so just an hour off the unbeatable record.
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not that I know much about it, but is he really that much of a good pure runner? I thought he was more of a really good runner and half decent mountaineer, so able to have done lots of these mountains really fast. Presumably the bg is just purely about running, rather than requiring mountaineering skills as well.
This is a genuine question by the way, not an opinion. Is he that good at running?
This is a genuine question by the way, not an opinion. Is he that good at running?
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In reply to GDes:
Check the Mountain Running section of his page on wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%ADlian_Jornet_Burgada
Check the Mountain Running section of his page on wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%ADlian_Jornet_Burgada
In reply to GDes:
I think he describes himself as a mountaineer and skier who runs on the "off season" to stay fit......... which is pretty depressing to everyone he comfortably beats for whom running is either sole aim.
I think he describes himself as a mountaineer and skier who runs on the "off season" to stay fit......... which is pretty depressing to everyone he comfortably beats for whom running is either sole aim.
In reply to DaveHK:
He's also now got the experience of having tried it before so probably has a better idea than last time what is in store for him so should be better prepared. I'd imagine he could muster a pretty impressive roster of support runners as well should he decide to this time.
He's also now got the experience of having tried it before so probably has a better idea than last time what is in store for him so should be better prepared. I'd imagine he could muster a pretty impressive roster of support runners as well should he decide to this time.
In reply to Ged - is he that good a runner - clearly yes, but how fast he would be on a flatcourse is tricky to answer - he doesn't do them, doesn't like them.I would always bear in mind that him having a crack at Kenny Stuarts times is far from a guaranteed success, particularly on flatter courses - Kenny ran a 62:
55 1/2 - not shabby, does anyone have a 10k time? (28,51, 48.13 10 miles)
55 1/2 - not shabby, does anyone have a 10k time? (28,51, 48.13 10 miles)
Post edited at 19:48
In reply to wbo:
That was kind of what I meant really. Like I said, I don't know that much about him, but I remember there being lots of fuss about Ueli Steck's supreme running ability, for him to then clock a 3.30 marathon. So I wasn't sure if KJ was brilliant at legging it up and down semi-technical terrain, but not in the same running class as, for example, somebody running a 62 minute half marathon.
However the consensus seems to be telling me that yes, he is a really good runner.
It'll be interesting to see what happens. It's like Ondra goes to Yosemite for fell runners.
That was kind of what I meant really. Like I said, I don't know that much about him, but I remember there being lots of fuss about Ueli Steck's supreme running ability, for him to then clock a 3.30 marathon. So I wasn't sure if KJ was brilliant at legging it up and down semi-technical terrain, but not in the same running class as, for example, somebody running a 62 minute half marathon.
However the consensus seems to be telling me that yes, he is a really good runner.
It'll be interesting to see what happens. It's like Ondra goes to Yosemite for fell runners.
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In reply to GDes:
He's very good on big days with lots of up and down which pretty much covers the BG. Being able to do a 62 minute half doesn't tell you much about how you'll go on a BG. Winning the Skyrunning series and the UTMB on the other hand does.
> So I wasn't sure if KJ was brilliant at legging it up and down semi-technical terrain, but not in the same running class as, for example, somebody running a 62 minute half marathon.
He's very good on big days with lots of up and down which pretty much covers the BG. Being able to do a 62 minute half doesn't tell you much about how you'll go on a BG. Winning the Skyrunning series and the UTMB on the other hand does.
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In reply to GDes:
Yeah! That's exactly what it is!
> It'll be interesting to see what happens. It's like Ondra goes to Yosemite for fell runners.
Yeah! That's exactly what it is!
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In reply to Tyler:
Dropped out. Not sure why. The support runners weren't from my club so that's all I know.
Dropped out. Not sure why. The support runners weren't from my club so that's all I know.
In reply to GDes:
The BG has about 27,000 ft of ascent. Discussing it in the context of conventional running doesn't stack up for me.
I don't know KJ personally, but knowing of his achievements and with the right type of support on the day, my view is the record is ripe for being taken.
If he does go for it, I'll be cheering him on at Dunmail!
The BG has about 27,000 ft of ascent. Discussing it in the context of conventional running doesn't stack up for me.
I don't know KJ personally, but knowing of his achievements and with the right type of support on the day, my view is the record is ripe for being taken.
If he does go for it, I'll be cheering him on at Dunmail!
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In reply to ablackett:
On the contrary. It may not save much time if you know the way intimately and can navigate on the run. But it can save the attempt if you make a disastrous route error, which is very possible for a tired brain, or if the mist is down. Having backup means you can hand over responsibility for carrying and for thinking, leaving you to concentrate on running.
> The local knowledge and micro-nav point is overplayed. It's not that important.
On the contrary. It may not save much time if you know the way intimately and can navigate on the run. But it can save the attempt if you make a disastrous route error, which is very possible for a tired brain, or if the mist is down. Having backup means you can hand over responsibility for carrying and for thinking, leaving you to concentrate on running.
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In reply to ablackett:
I'm not sure..
Much less sheep these days..
Less sheep = longer grass. Older runners in Wales reckon all the routes are a good deal slower these days as the grass is so much longer.
I think it could be beaten, but not by much, but he'd need perfect weather.
There will be a number of people pretty annoyed if he came over and just broke the record just using top local pacers.. That's just how the sport is.
But as he's Solomon he'll have good support with Ricky, Tom and numerous others. Everyone is going to want to help out.
I'm not sure..
Much less sheep these days..
Less sheep = longer grass. Older runners in Wales reckon all the routes are a good deal slower these days as the grass is so much longer.
I think it could be beaten, but not by much, but he'd need perfect weather.
There will be a number of people pretty annoyed if he came over and just broke the record just using top local pacers.. That's just how the sport is.
But as he's Solomon he'll have good support with Ricky, Tom and numerous others. Everyone is going to want to help out.
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In reply to Tom Last:
When competing in the UTMB races for example, are you on your own? i.e. no navigators, no pacers etc.
It would be a shame to see the BG record broken if he has all the extra help if this is so.
In this case i think he should have a go at it unassisted and see how he does.
When competing in the UTMB races for example, are you on your own? i.e. no navigators, no pacers etc.
It would be a shame to see the BG record broken if he has all the extra help if this is so.
In this case i think he should have a go at it unassisted and see how he does.
In reply to petegunn:
But all the record runs for the various rounds are supported. Also, if I remember correctly the BG cannot be "officially accepted" if it's done solo as all the summits need to be witnessed.
But all the record runs for the various rounds are supported. Also, if I remember correctly the BG cannot be "officially accepted" if it's done solo as all the summits need to be witnessed.
Post edited at 14:33
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In reply to Moley:
My prediction is that he'll pull out about 3/4 of the way round once it's become clear he's going to be outside the record. If he does finish he'll be about 20 minutes outside.
Yes I know it's unlikely, but I called the Brexit and Trump results about right
My prediction is that he'll pull out about 3/4 of the way round once it's become clear he's going to be outside the record. If he does finish he'll be about 20 minutes outside.
Yes I know it's unlikely, but I called the Brexit and Trump results about right
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In reply to petegunn:
Michael is right. The BG club will not recognise solo completions never mind records. If you want your time on the list, whether it's a record or 23.59 you need to do it accompanied (or at least witnessed at each summit). The UTMB is an organised race so there are other competitors out there with you plus it is signposted and has aid stations / supply points so it's quite different from the BG.
Charlie Ramsay does recognise solo completions for his round but none of the current records were done in that style. Jon Gay's previous winter Ramsay record was solo with static suport though.
Michael is right. The BG club will not recognise solo completions never mind records. If you want your time on the list, whether it's a record or 23.59 you need to do it accompanied (or at least witnessed at each summit). The UTMB is an organised race so there are other competitors out there with you plus it is signposted and has aid stations / supply points so it's quite different from the BG.
Charlie Ramsay does recognise solo completions for his round but none of the current records were done in that style. Jon Gay's previous winter Ramsay record was solo with static suport though.
Post edited at 16:13
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In reply to Simon Caldwell:
I'd like to think that, if he does realise he's outside the record that far in, he'll still crack on.
Sure, he's a guy with sponsorship commitments and a reputation to protect, but he also comes across as being pretty humble and someone who just loves the mountains. I would hope he wouldn't want to miss out on the complete experience, particularly if he receives the strong local support that I imagine he will.
Indeed, I'd argue it would be pretty disrespectful to sack it off if the record wasn't on, unless of course he's explicit about that with his support before he leaves Moot Hall.
I'd like to think that, if he does realise he's outside the record that far in, he'll still crack on.
Sure, he's a guy with sponsorship commitments and a reputation to protect, but he also comes across as being pretty humble and someone who just loves the mountains. I would hope he wouldn't want to miss out on the complete experience, particularly if he receives the strong local support that I imagine he will.
Indeed, I'd argue it would be pretty disrespectful to sack it off if the record wasn't on, unless of course he's explicit about that with his support before he leaves Moot Hall.
Post edited at 16:45
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In reply to Michael Hood:
The wording on the form was "supported on the fells by.............." at least when I did it in 2012. That leaves some (perhaps intentional) ambiguity for if the summits actually have to be witnessed. I would imagine there are a fair few rounds when the support doesn't do the out and back to Steeple, or perhaps leaves the contender to it on some of the Dodds while they take a short cut.
Easiest way for KJ to get support might be to put a shout out on the FRA forum and get 42 people, one to stand on each summit! But, I'm not sure that would count as "supported on the fells by.....!"
> if it's done solo as all the summits need to be witnessed.
The wording on the form was "supported on the fells by.............." at least when I did it in 2012. That leaves some (perhaps intentional) ambiguity for if the summits actually have to be witnessed. I would imagine there are a fair few rounds when the support doesn't do the out and back to Steeple, or perhaps leaves the contender to it on some of the Dodds while they take a short cut.
Easiest way for KJ to get support might be to put a shout out on the FRA forum and get 42 people, one to stand on each summit! But, I'm not sure that would count as "supported on the fells by.....!"
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Great interview with Jason Schlarb, with whom Jornet tied for 1st in last yr's Hardrock 100:
http://www.irunfar.com/2016/07/jason-schlarb-2016-hardrock-100-co-champion-...
I don't get the impression Jornet is that kind of character.
> My prediction is that he'll pull out about 3/4 of the way round once it's become clear he's going to be outside the record. If he does finish he'll be about 20 minutes outside.
Great interview with Jason Schlarb, with whom Jornet tied for 1st in last yr's Hardrock 100:
http://www.irunfar.com/2016/07/jason-schlarb-2016-hardrock-100-co-champion-...
I don't get the impression Jornet is that kind of character.
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