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Ethical brands?

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 jezb1 22 Mar 2017
It's important to me for companies to pay their staff fair wages, use organic / recycled materials etc.

I like Patagucci for techy stuff and like the 3rd Rock stuff for climbing and casual stuff.

Any suggestions of companies to check out?

 alx 22 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

Arcteryx. Their webpage covers a lot of their initiatives. They do a lot to help local homeless with custom clothing for them as well from what I seem to remember.

 GregCHF 22 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:
> use organic

Sorry but you do not know what organic means!

There is more organic chemicals in your Tupperware than in the air you breath!

If you want organic, get as many polymer based products as possible.
Post edited at 22:38
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 slab_happy 23 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

I like BAM Bamboo Clothing for baselayers. Very good eco-credentials and employment ethics, great customer service, and it's lovely stuff.
 galpinos 23 Mar 2017
In reply to slab_happy:

What are the eco credentials? The website has some generic "facts" about bamboo but nothing on what they actually do to ensure any eco credentials?
 InSituJames 23 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

Flying under the radar - Haglofs, lots of good work being done there...

http://www.haglofs.com/se/en/sustainability
 JayPee630 23 Mar 2017
In reply to GregCHF:

Dick. Organic can mean a couple of different things as you well know.
 JayPee630 23 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

Howies. Paramo. Patagonia. Some of the smaller UK based ones like Aiguille Alpine purely for lower ecological impact (less transport/production).
 slab_happy 23 Mar 2017
In reply to galpinos:

> What are the eco credentials? The website has some generic "facts" about bamboo but nothing on what they actually do to ensure any eco credentials?

See the FAQ: https://bambooclothing.co.uk/faqs/

They adhere to "the international standard for environmental management, ISO14000, and for quality, ISO9000, as well as only working with Oeko-tex and Global Organic Textile Standard (GOTS) certificated suppliers."

This is in addition to the environmental benefits of using bamboo (quick-growing, doesn't require chemical fertilizer or pesticides, and IIRC uses relatively little water) to produce viscose.
 galpinos 23 Mar 2017
In reply to slab_happy:

Maybe I'm just a cynic but:

ISO14001 is a voluntary standard within which no environmental standards or performance targets are set. It is a management standard and do not show that a company is particulary enviromentally friendly.

Oeko-tex is a human health standard I know little about (I'm not in the textile industry) but doesn't on the face of it say much about the enviroment and GOTS I know nothing about so won't comment on that.

Chemical fertilizers and pesticides - bamboo doesn't "require" them but they are all commonly used in China in bamboo production (there is nothing illegal/untoward in this as this is within the Chinese laws on bamboo production)

It uses a lot of caustic soda and carbon disulfide (of which half is normally lost to the environment) in the production process so thought the growing 'may' be environmentally sound, the production is questionable.

I'm sure these were some of the reasons Patagonia decided against using it.

As an aside, putting the stuff about 'Bamboo fabric cuts out 97.5% of harmful UV rays' annoys me as any tightly woven dense cloth will protect against UVR whereas a loosely woven bamboo fabric would not.
 Phil1919 23 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

......when you shop for food, check out ethical consumer for supermarket rating. I think Asda gets 0.5 out of 20 for example. I think its coop, Waitrose and M and S that come out best......about 6 or 7 out of 20. Up here we've got Booths which do pretty well and stock local/organic stuff, and some good market stalls.
OP jezb1 23 Mar 2017
In reply to Phil1919:

Thanks for that Clint, hadn't heard of that so will check it out.
 Phil1919 23 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

I found it interesting to read the reasons ethical consumer gives out its rating. Stuff that I hadn't really considered. The supermarket one is archived from 2014 I think but you can see it for free on their website, or you could.
 Timmd 23 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

Buying second hand, while not addressing things at source, could be part of being individually less unethical?

There's this website.

http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/
 GregCHF 24 Mar 2017
In reply to JayPee630:
You are correct "organic" can have a number of meanings.

In this context however, it's uses is at best showing a miss understanding of how chemistry works. At worst, it is pseudoscience used by marketing executives to sell snake oil.

If you want top quality organic material, buy polymers.
Post edited at 10:19
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 Timmd 24 Mar 2017
In reply to GregCHF:

No it doesn't.
1
OP jezb1 24 Mar 2017
In reply to GregCHF:

Thanks for the bump.

 LittleRob 24 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

Not quite what you're asking, but pretty ethical I think http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-39292600
cb294 24 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

Klättermusen, if you can afford it. I am still saving for one of their jackets to replace my 15yo Mammut hardshell....

CB
kmhphoto 24 Mar 2017
In reply to cb294:

"Klättermusen," didn't they move all of their production to Asia to increase profit margins after they were taken over by an investment company?
cb294 25 Mar 2017
In reply to kmhphoto:

No idea, but I should check! Thanks for the heads up!

CB
 Timmd 25 Mar 2017
In reply to cb294:

Their explanation is informative and passionately argued.

https://www.facebook.com/klattermusen/photos/a.197863010225489.54649.172120...
 Timmd 25 Mar 2017
In reply to cb294:
For those who don't have facebook. Quite thought provoking for looking at other companies too, I thought.

Are you disappointed? Do you think we are not taking responsibility for the environment and that our sustainability work is a joke. Maybe because we produce in Asia, that we recycle far away from home (in Asia) and that we transport goods from Asia. Here comes an explanation to the choices we make.
We are a small company with high ambitions, working within a flawed industrial system – the textile industry. Our goal is always to be at the forefront, pushing this system towards a more sustainable way of business. But these things take time and we need to put our best efforts where we have the most effect.

Regarding recycling; We cannot recycle fibres in our backyard in Sweden. There are very few existing alternatives. Today, most of the used polyester fibres are incinerated or put into landfill, which is really the last alternative for us. The Japanese “Eco-Circle” is the only actually working polyester recycling system today, where old fibres can be turned into new ones with almost no performance decrease. Within the next 5-10 years we are pretty sure there will be more initiatives available, closer to “home”. In the meantime, we need to find the best available solutions aiming at a “Circular Economy”. We are way too small to venture into the recycling and materials handling business to start our own process. We think that promoting initiatives that go in a “Circular Economy” direction is not short-sighted but rather aiming at a long-term vision. Even if the short-term benefits are not as high.

Production locations are chosen due to a number of factors. The biggest one, however, is finding a factory who actually can make our goods. In the mid 90’s, the textile industry closed down most of the more advanced sewing factories in Europe and moved production to China. We kept our production in Estonia for a couple of years more but had big problems with quality and deliveries, why a change was needed. At that time, the best quality offer came from a Chinese supplier. The price was higher than in Estonia, but we saw that the Klättermusen quality and innovation level could be kept there. 10 years from now, I am convinced that the European textile industry will resurrect due to our demand for more local production, but the biggest problem in this process is that there are no skilled textile workers in Europe anymore. In Sweden today, there is no education for industrial sewing at all. That is why the best competence for functional textile production is made in China, Taiwan or Vietnam today.

Transportation is a tricky question, often we tend to see the overseas shipping of finished goods as the big climate bandits of the world. However, the boat transportation from Shanghai port to Gothenburg port in Sweden is actually equal in contribution to carbon dioxide emissions (per garment) as the truck transport from Gothenburg to our offices in Åre. This is one reason why we moved our warehouse to a location very close to the port and also to our European market a couple of years ago. Of course we will be happy to promote the first solar and/or wind powered cargo vessel from Asia in the future, but until now they are just testing different technologies.

Believe it or not, but today we have half of our sales in Asia, the “local market” seen from a production standpoint. And also the most rapidly growing markets. So actually it makes more and more sense to keep production there and ship the smaller quantity to Europe.

At Klättermusen we get frustrated almost every day over the state of our industrial system, but we work really hard to push both suppliers, competitors and customers in a more sustainable direction through our decisions. You should of course not be happy with anything less than a sustainable world, but until that day comes we will keep working with that aim and continue giving you the real picture of our activities and the state of the industry, both the good and bad.
Post edited at 16:22
 JayPee630 27 Mar 2017
In reply to Timmd:

I worked with a small manufacturer for a while, and they had no choice but to have things made in China, and both the quality and environmental standards were better than anything previously done in Europe. Sure that isn't the same across the board, but people dismissing it out of hand is not often justifiable.
 jethro kiernan 27 Mar 2017
In reply to jezb1:

Cliff bars for mountain/running/biking food.
cb294 27 Mar 2017
In reply to Timmd:

Thanks!

CB
 Jenny C 27 Mar 2017
In reply to Timmd:
Thankyou, a really good insight answering a number of questions which the layman wouldn't necessary think of

> ......................... Of course we will be happy to promote the first solar and/or wind powered cargo vessel from Asia in the future, but until now they are just testing different technologies.

I think you'll find that we've had wind powered sailing vessels since the 1500's

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