UKC

Hi all - i'm planning on doing some grade 3 scrambles in snowdonia over easter. When i've done this before I've either used a 60m half rope (not really ideal) or a 70m sport rope.

I figured there must be available a dry treated (it's wales!) 30-40m single rope available but i can't find one.

Does such a thing exist? What do other people use to rope up on scrambles?

In reply to ewanjp:

Buy a triple-rated (and dry treated) 80m rope with a likeminded friend... chop on two and now you got a 40m dry treated single...

In reply to HeMa:

Bit of an expensive exercise to buy a triple rated rope for scrambling? Id just go with a non dry treated unless its lashing down or your in winter.

In reply to ewanjp:

Hi Ewan, I'm doing some grade three scrambles in Snowdonia over Easter as well, with a 40m dry-treated rope I bought from Dick's Climbing in Bristol. It was a Mammut but I believe has been replaced with the following https://www.dicksclimbing.com/collections/rope/products/dicks-climbing-pink...
Iirc they cut down a 50m rope for me but charged me as if it was a 40m, so the price was the best I could find anywhere. Hope this helps.

In reply to J Whittaker:


Yes, but the OP did specify a single... considering the usage, the lightest rope would be the most suited.

To be honest, a better alternative would be to chop up a 70m half rope (dry treated).

That said, if you look around a triple rated one might not be too spendy. I remember buying a 70m triple rated one from Cham for 90 Eur and also quite recently bought an 80m triple rated one for 120 Eur.

In reply to ewanjp:

http://www.exxpozed.com/beal-rando-8mm-20m-golden-dry-1.html?s=808969%C2%A4...

Available in 20, 30 & 48m lengths.

or google 30m Beal Golden Dry rope for further options.

In reply to ewanjp:

You don't need to spend extra money for dry treated rope to use on summer scrambles. It doesn't matter if the rope gets wet if there's no risk of it freezing stiff.

In reply to ewanjp:

Would this fit the bill?

http://www.needlesports.com/954/products/mammut-serenity-dry-8-7mm-30m-rand...

In reply to HeMa:

Will investigate dicks climbing option.

I've found lots of those confidence ropes around but they're not rated for climbing as far as I can tell, I'm i'd expect we'd be pitching some of the scramble. Likewise with double ropes - they're not really designed for leading on the single rope are they?

In reply to ewanjp:
I think that Mammut serenity dry someone linked above is the rope I bought from Dicks but I don't think they sell it any more and their new Beal option is thicker/heavier.

In my opinion if you are pitching on scrambles like Cneifion Arete or the other grade 3s you should use a climbing rather than confidence rope. All depends on your ability and approach. I use my rope in winter as well so dry treatment is essential for me.

In reply to ewanjp:
60m half rope used as a 30m twin?

In reply to ewanjp:

Don't think they still market it separately, but Beal used to produce a "Scrambler" rope that was just a 35m length of dry treated 'Joker' 9.1mm triple rated rope.

In reply to ewanjp:

Does anyone have experience of the Decathlon 8.9mm triple rated dry treated rope?

https://www.simond.com/edge-dry-89-mm-x-50-m-rope-id_8388735

Seems too good to be true...

In reply to ewanjp:

Somebody has already linked Needlesports but if you really do want dry then this is a decent choice:

http://www.needlesports.com/32629/products/beal-iceline-golden-dry-unicore-...

In reply to ewanjp:


Well, half ropes are tested indevidually, just like single ropes (but with a smaller weight).

And quite often on wondering lines, a fall is held only on one of the half ropes. This considering the fact that for scrambles, you are rather unlikely to take a huge lob in air (as you'll hit a ledge way before that), half ropes should be more than enough...

In reply to Kirill:


True. But it does get heavier when wet. I've got both types and decide on the day which to use.
Yeah! I know expensive, but so is smoking.

In reply to ewanjp:

https://www.alpkit.com/products/fixe-roca-magma-35

Another option here.

In reply to IPPurewater:

69g per meter !!! Let you carry that, skinny half rope from needlesports 42g, more than strong enough

In reply to HeMa:


To a certain extent I agree with you, but you also have to factor in the following:

You'll often use rock features as belays/protection, which inevitably means more abrasion and chance of cutting. A thicker rope is less likely to fail and will last longer.

Quick belays and body belays are common, a thicker rope will be easier to hold.

You may not take huge falls, but the fall factor may end up being quite high if the rope has been woven around rock features and pinnacles causing drag.

For these reasons, I suggest a compromise, which is to opt for a thin single rope rather than one strand of a half rope. Many ropes in this bracket (9mm or close) are multi-rated anyway. The Beal "Scrambler" rope mentioned above was my idea back when I worked for Lyon, it seemed perfect to use a 9.1mm single rope as the weight penalty was minor yet the rope felt more reassuring when weaving the rope around pinnacles and using direct belays.

In reply to ewanjp:

Likewise with double ropes - they're not really designed for leading on the single rope are they?

this is such a painfully common misconception!

in short yes they are (assuming you are referring to a half rope as opposed to a twin...).

In reply to Webster:

I know they can take a lead fall, but what I meant by 'not really design for' is that they're thinner and less robust, I assume because given there are two of them when they're normally used it's not quite so likely to be terminal if one gets cut on a rock. For scrambling I'll be on one rope if i'm leading so I'd rather something a bit more robust than a half rope. I may be being overly cautious tho!

That beal scrambler rope looks perfect, if only anywhere sold it still At the moment i'm just going to buy a 50m dry treated rope and chop it.

Anyone know the longest ab i'm likely going to do in snowdonia on grade 3 stuff?

In reply to ewanjp:

Personally I think limiting yourself to 15m abs is cutting it a bit fine. I can't think of a vertical pitch longer than that on any of the scrambles i've done. But there may be reasons you want to ab off the side of a route to reach easier ground (injury, weather etc) rather than follow your line of ascent. Others more gung-ho than I may disagree!

In reply to ewanjp:


They still sell it at 35m, just under the "Joker" name rather than specifically marketed as "Scrambler". It's the same rope (though not cheap)

In reply to ewanjp:


The rope I linked to above is rated as a single rope, and dry treated.

In reply to Dan Middleton, BMC:

Skinny rope will run better around spikes, pinnacles and terrain - reducing ff maybe?

In reply to John Kelly:


Flexibility and surface treatment might be just as important as diameter - a nice slick dry coating probably helps. More material in the rope will definitely help it survive any given abrasion or cutting situation, that I do know.

In reply to ewanjp: I brought a 40m Mammut Serenity 8.7mm dry treated single rope last year (from Dick's Climbing) and in terms of theoretical performance and practical handling it's an absolutely brilliant bit of kit. However, it's also not cheap and tends to be complete overkill for most things in the UK. It is also a rather awkward compromise - not quite robust enough for everyday mountaineering or climbing use but still rather heavy to carry just in case.

Interestingly, it will NOT get used much for scrambles in North Wales. I've previously trashed a Beal Joker when Winter Mountaineering and had to cut down down a short Edelrid single after using it on Tower Ridge in Summer so the Serenity will be kept for proper climbing routes where the combination of single rating and ultralight weight is really warranted. For most scrambles with numerous short awkward steps I'd prefer my cheap 30m x 10mm climbing wall rope whereas for others I might grudgingly use a 50m half rope

For UK scrambling, an expensive dry-treated single just seems unnecessary. If you generally rope up for entire routes (as guides/instructors do with novices) then a reasonably substantial and cheap single, or a retired and cut down sport rope, is absolutely the way to go. Conversely, if you generally solo but want to carry a rope "just in case" then you might as well have the lightest option and a half rope is perfect, especially if it is only going to be used very occasionally.

I can see little point in anything more expensive than either a basic single (For example a Beal Karma 40m x 9.8mm @ £49 from Go Outdoors http://m.gooutdoors.co.uk/beal-karma-9-8-40m-single-rope-p390868 or Mammut 40m x 9.5mm ropes have been available cheap from various retailers including Outside, V12, Rock+Run etc. ) or a skinny dry-treated half (Simmond 40m x 7.5mm @ £39.99 from Decathlon https://www.decathlon.co.uk/hiking-rope-75-mm-x-40-m-id_8338027.html ).

In reply to ewanjp:

I think I'm going to do as suggested and just get a cheapo 40m one.

One of the routes we're thinking of is the Sub-Cneifion Rib + Cneifion Arete and for that I suspect we'll take half ropes anyway as the Vdiff bit has some longer pitches on it.