UKC

A video has just been released of the Wideboyz - AKA Tom Randall and Pete Whittaker - from their trip to the Czech Republic. With a reputation for having bold sandstone routes and gnarly climbers to go with them, Tom and Pete have to get used to using the traditional knotted ropes and slings as protection on the soft rock.

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In reply to UKC News:

Such an interesting style of ethics and climbing; it's often easy to get sucked into the little UK bubble of climbing and forget that styles, ethics, and climbing cultures contrast so much in other countries compared to what we have here.
Some would probably say it's idiocy to put yourself in such danger (the same could be argued for our bolting ethics in the UK??), whilst I'm sure others would applaud the strong ethics that make up the unique style of Czech climbing. Either way it's certainly thought provoking.

Cracking video.

In reply to liebs:

Also brings home that traditional styles of climbing and protection are not uniquely British.

In reply to liebs:


Even more thought provoking & not mentioned, is that all the old routes would have been climbed & repeated for many years using the local carpet slippers, EB's would have been a revelation at the time.

In reply to walts4:

I'm 100% convinced I've seen this before. Was it an extra on one of their dvds?

In reply to UKC News:
Someone at the start mentioned that they had given the routes french grades but it didn't really work, but then they used them anyway.

Some of the easier routes had french tech where I was be thinking "Yeah. I can lead that no problem", quickly followed by "nope" when they hoved into view. I was thinking maybe uk trad grades might work better, then it occurred to me that with the soft rock they are probably all XS

Does anyone have a sensible conversion chart?

In reply to davidbeynon:

I forgot to mention. The place looks amazing.

In reply to UKC News:

Love these guys. Many climbers become experts on the routes of favorite local crag and don't embrace other types of rock, other styles of climbing, other styles of protection, etc. Wide Boyz have looked for cutting edge routes in many styles, from crazy desert roof cracks to the Cobra finger crack at Squamish to free routes on El Cap to Czech sandstone. And they laugh at themselves, respect local climbers and traditions, get out of their comfort zone, and have a ton of fun. Can't wait to see their next adventures!

In reply to davidbeynon:

We use the derivate of Saxon grades so this might help you a little
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(climbing)#Comparison_tables
If the route is extremley dangerous or have some other peculitarity there is exclamation mark or note usually in the guidebook

In reply to davidbeynon:

It is though some parts might be overcrowded during the tourist season. But there are over 2000 towers and countless other rocks, ravines and nooks where no one goes. The beer is under 1 £ still

In reply to walts4:


The typical climbing shoes during the communism looked like this
http://www.horyinfo.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2014120014

Petr Prachtel used them in Eiger North Face also

It was common to climb barefoot also

In reply to pavelk:


Yes, remember those so well, sure a mate brought a pair back for use on the grit!

The slippers, the beer & the outstanding quality of the routes along with the enthusiasm of the local climbers all made a lasting impression, great video, amazing place.

In reply to Rad:

I thought it was pretty brave to go somewhere they knew you're going to get sandbagged and scared while agreeing to have the whole thing filmed. Demonstrates a refreshing lack of ego, or a huge amount of self confidence! Really enjoyed the film.

In reply to davidbeynon:

It did look great. It's definitely put it on my dream list of destinations.

In reply to pavelk:

To be honest I never found any reliable correspondence (in Saxony) between their grades and anything I'm familiar with - but then again the climbing is like nothing else I'm familiar with either.

Has anyone noticed the two quickdraws clipped on the ringbolts?

See 3:15, 12:47, 16:02, 22:00

Just wondering if there was any explanation to offer behind this - they don't look like the gates are opposed...

Only thing I can think is to increase the area the rope's running over during a fall however the extended draw at 22:00 threw that off a bit.

Cheers!

In reply to walts4:


Yeah, it was me Walt, I did Ulysse on stanage with them!! I've still got them, comfy in front of the telly

In reply to JonoDHawkins:

We usually put two quickdraws to ringbolts (not rule but habit) but with gates opposed.

In reply to JonoDHawkins:

Is it maybe due to the fact that the ring bolts are quite large and the karabiners have more of a chance to move about about potentially causing cross-loading or a way for the snap gate to come off in a sudden fall?

Can't see this as being such a big problem with regular bolt hangers due to the smaller space for the quick draw (krab) to move around.

Anyway, quality film with a couple of humble guys! And nice to see another side of ethics so similar and in some ways more pure (whatever that means) than our own.

How refreshing to watch a climbing film with no music; just ambient sound, and the echoes conveying the atmosphere of the surrounding towers. A beautifully understated film.

In reply to Nath93:

Probably more to do with a single point of failure thing. Having one bolt at 20m up is a bit different to having bolts every 3 or 4 metres where a failure on one bolt from any height is backed up by bolts below.

In reply to SiGregory:


I think it is in the extras section of WideBoyz II.

In reply to GrahamD:

A bit of both for me, actually, when climbing in Elbe sandstone. There are many routes I would like to climb and that would technically be in my range, but where I simply value my life too much!

I have climbed stuff with the first bolt rather high up, but only when I could see a bombproof thread or knot placement somewhere below. Still, arriving at the first bolt on such routes always felt like a huge relief, and I tend to either clip such bolts with screwgates or double up (usually in parallel configuration, gates opposed only when continuing straight up).

Not all places in the Czech sandstone are as crazy as Ardrspach, though. For example, Tyca has plenty routes that feel almost sports bolted, with typical, small hangers, in addition to the old style ring bolts, and good top roping access.

There is discussion in Saxony as well about whether one should move to glued in bolts for new routing and bolt replacement (which needs to be done quite regularly with ring bolts hammered into lead clad holes.

CB

In reply to r turford:
I remember seeing someone on Cool Moon @Curbar in carpet slippers many years ago - was that you?

In reply to cb294:

Here is an article, unfortunatly in Czech, but with some pictures for illustration
http://www.horyinfo.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2010030031&nazevclanku=pisk...
When you write Tyca, do you mean Tisá (in the north, next to German border?)

Top roping is forbidden in Czech sandstone!
Please, respect it when you come though many people ignore it. It has a good reason, because our sandstone is often very soft and rope friction leaves grooves in it

In reply to Neil Henson:

That will be it! Cheers.
Thought I was even less lucid than usual.

In reply to Nath93:

Perhaps the main reason is the position the quickdraws in ringbolts have. They are in the right angle to the rock which brings two risks.
If the carabin has its gate to the rock it can open when it hits the rock. If the carabin has its back to the rock the rope can open the gate during the fall. To avoid the risk we use two quickdraws with gates opposed or screwgates

In reply to pavelk:

Yes, Tisá, apologies for the spelling mistake. The last few times I was climbing there, all teams that were toproping there were Czech (we were leading), so apparently no one climbing there cares about this rule.

Of course, you should always run a length of static rope from the anchors on top across the edge, and then run the toprope through your own carabiner. This prevents damage to rock, anchor, and rope! I totally agree that teh rope grooves you find on many well travelled routes are extremely ugly.

However, as long as you do this, there is no reason not to top rope, and I am glad that in Tisá at least the locals seem to be more reasonable about this and handle it in exactly this way.

We have the same discussion a few km North with the sandstone Taliban in Saxony, and as far as I am concerned, they can simply f*ck off (again, as long as I am not damaging the rock, noone tells me which style I should climb in).

CB

In reply to cb294:

As there is long ang strong tradidition of ignoring rules and autorities here in Czech you can see what you saw. But there is one more thing to consider. Almost all sandstone climbing areas here ion Czech are in nature protected areas (or privately owned) and climbing is only allowed due to some conditions specified in the decree. And most decrees say top rope is not allowed so toproping might mean breaking the law (Tisá is not the case with toproping but chalk is forbidden there)
Authorities are not too active enforcing rules but there are voices saying there may not bee some new permints for several areas because of climbers ignoring the rules

In reply to cb294:

Actually, they do. The landowners and organisations that control the area tell you the style you climb in. If you don't respect sensitive access conditions then the whole community could lose access to an incredible area with unique climbing culture which I think corresponds very closely with the British ethics.

It's annoying, but how shit would it be to not be able to climb there at all?

In reply to MischaHY:

If I want to make a fool of myself I do not need the help of others, so yes, they can f*ck off.

CB

In reply to pavelk:

I would not toprope in Adrspach, but there is no reason no to do it in Tisa, as long as one protects the rock. Uncritically following rules just because they are the rules instead of thinking for yourself is generally not a good idea ( not limited to climbing, obviously).

CB

In reply to cb294:

The toprope ban in sandstone climbing rules has its origin in pure style all routes were made.
All routes are made from the bottom and all protection (ringbolts usually) are installed from climbing positions (you can hang on hook or tiny temporaly ring), you are not even allowed to rappel down the wall before the first try to explore the possible route.

Considering this I would never toprope any trad sandstone route because I just feel it as belittling.
But this is my personal view

In reply to pavelk:

The old guy they met on the tower was fascinating. Do you know anything about him?

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

Petr Slanina: http://www.ocun.com/en/ocun/ambassadors/petr-slanina.html

There are some good videos of him on Youtube.

In reply to nikkormat:

Many thanks indeed.

Mick