UKC

Indoors I can redpoint some 7b's and, on a good day, onsight some 7a's. (I say "some" because all grades are subjective and there are soft 7b's I can onsight and hard 7a's I have to redpoint etc.)
Outdoors I'm hopeless at route reading and my average onsight grade is about 6b/+.
How can I get my outdoor onsight grade closer to my indoors one?
Everything I climb outdoors is onsight as my belayer won't lead anything and we tend to avoid busy crags so I don't get to see anyone else climb a route first.
I'm assuming the answer will be to climb outdoors more which I'm trying to do, but falling off 6b's is getting a bit disheartening. I thought I'd ask in case I'm missing something obvious. (I do stand at the bottom before I start trying to spot all the holds and work sequences out, but I'm just rubbish at it.)
Thanks in advance for any positive suggestions.

In reply to wert:

Yes, climb more outdoors and you will improve. Watch others on outdoor routes too, this may help.
Indoor and outdoor grades feel very different (indoor being easier) and the grade differences you mention seem about right. Don't be disheartened, instead try to enjoy the outdoor routes you are doing and do more of them.

Hope that's helpful.
Mark

In reply to wert:

Try red pointing

In reply to wert:

Be humble. Be prepared to start all over again. (If you go on to trad, you'll have to start all over again - again!)

Drop down to a grade where you can onsight 100% of the time. Let's say it's F6a. Do twenty. If OK, do 20 F6a+. If OK, well... you can see where I'm going with this.

You'll get better at route reading. But you'll also get better at resting. ('Cos I hope you're resting when you're route reading.) You'll get better at breathing and relaxing. If you ever climb trad, all of these will stand you in good stead.

Grades are a benchmark. If you concentrate on skills (resting, breathing, relaxing, route reading), your ability to onsight will naturally improve. In it's own time.

Mick

In reply to wert:
Climbing on rock more will obviously help, but climbing slowly indoors will also help build the stamina you need outdoors to hold on while you read/feel for the next holds. Concentrating on footwork is also a good idea. Indoors you always have massive coloured blobs to stand on, outdoors is far more subtle.

In reply to dr_botnik:

Try red painting. That means marking all the holds with red paint to make them as easy to spot in advance as indoors.

In reply to wert:
Onsighting outdoors takes longer so try and use of any on-route rests as best you can. Consider down climbing back to a good rest. Could give you the extra time you need to work out what you need to do.

In reply to wert:

It also depends where you climb indoors, a lot of climbing centres can be a bit soft on their grading.

In reply to wert:

Don't assume that holds will naturally follow left-right-left etc. They won't. Think about and use your feet far more than you do indoors and, equally, do not expect footholds to be either convenient or obvious. Don't spend ages looking for the 'best' holds if what you've got is adeqate. Don't spend ages looking at something from a stress position - it's not going to change so give it a go. Equally, the missing hold will probably appear as you climb up. Sod's law states that you'll be wrong-handed for it, so you'll just have to figure that out too.

All of the above also apply for trad, with the addition of gear placements to think about and a Plan B for retreat if giving it a go isn't working out. Just taking the fall as a matter of course is a really bad plan B.

In reply to wert:

Trying to read a route to the same degree of detail that you read a route indoors is, in most cases, just not possible. A lot of the time the best you can hope for is to spot the general line and possible rest positions. You need to make better use of your feet. This and optimising rest positions is key I find. Unfortunately I can't think of a better way of improving these skills other than getting in the mileage. The good news is you are not a million miles away from making your grades equate, I have seen far greater discrepancies.

Equating outdoor grades to indoor grades is something I have never been able to do. I can't get up anything harder than 6b indoors but I know I can climb 7a outdoors if I get enough mileage in. I find indoors too physically intense and I am very aware of injuring myself so I will not push it. I am 70 next year however so you can probably be a little more adventurous in that regard.

Al

In reply to wert:

Outdoors you need to be very patient, it's a lot slower than indoor climbing. Some different skills required, getting in a good position to feel holds and reverse without getting exhausted, and trying to plan a few moves ahead if you can read the sequence. And you need to be relaxed, tension will burn up your energy.

But like others have said, it takes a long time to learn. I'm a lot better than I used to be, but I've had to redpoint a few 6b's this week. Some routes are just hard to read, or have tough boulder cruxes that are all but impossible to read, and sometimes a bit of luck is required. I don't get disheartened though, just treat it all as good practice.

In reply to wert:

Climb some easier trad routes. You'll have no bolts as clues, limited chalk and will develop an eye to spot the natural line or features the route follows.

In reply to wert:
Thank you for the suggestions. I will definitely take them on board and do my best to apply them when I'm on a route.
I love climbing, so getting more mileage outdoors sounds good. Last summer I redpointed 7a and want to do the same again this year while also upping my onsight grade. (I enjoy redpointing and onsighting equally. They feel very different processes, but I find both addictive!)