UKC

I'm trying to work out the best lightweight system for use on multi-pitches with bolted belays.

I want to use a reverso in guide mode on an equalised power-point that is ideally separate from the one I'm clipped into. I've checked out the Quad but am not really sure what materials to use/whether I really want to carry a long cordelette.

http://www.rockandice.com/master-class-climbing-tips/quad-anchor

I'm ideally looking for something I can leave tied and simply adjust at each belay for maximum efficiency. Ideally something that leaves flexibility for who is leading the next pitch and that the second can clovehitch into as soon as they arrive at the belay with minimal faff.

Any help is much appreciated!

In reply to MischaHY:
The way in which teach novices to build multi-pitch anchors in sport-style climbs in the Netherlands is based on the guidelines formulated by the German and Austrian alpine-clubs.
- Anchors on solid bolts are not equalized, but one bolt acts as a powerpoint, while the second bolt is used as a backup.

The exact way in which we instruct novices on sport anchors at our alpine club is pictured on page 16 in the centre panel: http://www.alpenverein.de/chameleon/public/07ace84a-bc33-615a-62a3-151e7b8b...

- Note that the sling is attached to the carabiner in the backup bolt via a clove hitch (adjustable according the circumstances) and that the end of the sling is clipped into the carabiner (to prevent anchor failure in case of the clove hitch slipping under high loads).

This is also how I learned sport-anchor building from an Austrian mountain guide during an alpine rock climbing course.

No need for a cordelette, just a 120cm sling with a bowline on a bight.

In reply to timmeehhhh:

Huh. My girlfriend was taught something similar by her german climbing instructor, but I discounted it straight away as it wasn't equalised.

I'm happy building various kinds of un-equalised anchor but really looking for some thing I can rig fast that gives me an independent power-point for both my connection point and the connection point of the guide plate and ultimately my partner.

Any thoughts on this? Was rather keen to avoid putting knots in slings.

In reply to MischaHY:

Hi,
not sure what you have against knots in slings. The main choices are:
1. 120cm sling (or cord) with PP formed from alpine butterfly (or a fig8, but this can be hard to untie in thin slings). By using the shelf you have a separate place for the reverso.
2. Banshee style belay rig. As Germans tend to do. Loop formed from a bowline on bight. Keep all the krabs and reverso on the rig at all times.
3. Clove rope to first bolt on big krab, clove to second bolt. Fast minimal kit. Bit of a faff to change over in leading in blocks, but ok if you practice. Either change the reverso off the first big krab, or leave slack between the two bolts and form a PP.
4. Petzl method. Clove into a sling. I do not think this safe. As removal of the krab might kill anyone clipped to the shelf.

They are all here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/high/6TheBelay.htm

In reply to MischaHY:

On bolted belays, I've most recently been using a "sliding x" with limiting knots. It only provides one point to tie in to but it's fairly spacious so I didn't find that too irritating. You can leave it all tied and clipped together on your harness. Obviously, the self-equalising is a bit unnecessary with decent bolts but it does mean it's flexible depending on the spacing and orientation of the bolts rather than needing to adjust or retie.

That's just what I made up on my last holiday though. David Coley's suggestions are based on much more experience and much more thought, I'd listen to him.

In reply to MischaHY:

The German system referenced is the simplest and probably the most versatile, best is in a 16mm nylon sling but I´ ve used an 8mm cord snake sling.
Attempting to equalise is a waste of time anyway so go for redundancy. Personally I just use my tether on one bolt and the rope in the other.

In reply to David Coley:

Top stuff. Funnily enough I actually own the book but had never checked out the online pictures! Embarrassing. I'd always been taught equalisation over all but I guess with bolts that's less of a thing? I'll likely go for either the clove hitched rope with power point (which is the current tactic) or the sling with alpine butterfly as a strong tactic for blocked leads.

Cheers chaps!

In reply to MischaHY:

Had a meeting with one of my customers this afternoon who´ s the tech trainer for the mountain rescue and a guide (so he does this more than most people). He uses a PAS and clips each end into a bolt and then somewhere down with two loops to make a master point, anything below that is also a master point for whatever.
He used to use a Metolious thingy but nowadays a Grivel Twist or whatever it´ s called.
For his use with multiple punters I can see the point, for normal climbing it´ s just another piece of gear to lug around really.

In reply to David Coley:

Concerning 3), combining block leading and tying into a (serial belay) using the rope IMO works best using two additional carabiners for the second.

CB

In reply to jimtitt:


Right. The German Banshee rigging (as David calls it) is probably the best and most efficient. For those who might be interested anyway, the Metolius Thingy is http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/anchor-chain.html and costs 50 US $! Another pricey gadget is the Edelrid Adjustable Belay Station http://www.edelrid.de/en/Adjustable-Belay-Station-Sling/ .

In reply to MischaHY:

I like to use one of these: http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/grivel-daisy-chain-p279281

It stays lark's footed to my harness and can usually be pretty quickly arranged to clip myself in to the anchors and belay off a spare loop. A second could clip into it as well when they arrive, as long as they're leading through. No knots, very little faff, and just about 'adjustable' enough.