This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
A good climbing friend of mine joined a club up in Scotland to get access to huts and keys for gates. Naturally I asked him how much and what the requirements were. He said you need a reasonable list of climbs behind you but anyone of a younger age would stand a very good chance of getting in regardless. He was saying the age of most members are getting quite old now and the younger generation don't seem to be joining these things despite the benefits.
I've never struggled to get partners and I have a very comfortable van I use as a base so I've never really needed a club. Are such clubs becoming a thing of the past I wonder? Are your local clubs supported by an aging membership or does young new meat still join the ranks? Does it matter? I've nothing against older people here, they are wonderful but the demographic will suggest a future or not.
I've never struggled to get partners and I have a very comfortable van I use as a base so I've never really needed a club. Are such clubs becoming a thing of the past I wonder? Are your local clubs supported by an aging membership or does young new meat still join the ranks? Does it matter? I've nothing against older people here, they are wonderful but the demographic will suggest a future or not.
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
It depends a lot on what type of club you're talking about, university clubs naturally do attract young people, local clubs vary widely in their success with some (like the Northumbrian Mountaineering Club and the London Mountaineering Club) being very successful (partly driven by the demographic of the population in the local area). Some clubs are somewhat challenged by the demographic in the local area and they may need to get more creative with what they're doing to draw young people in. As climbing continues to increase in popularity more indoor climbers are going to want to move outdoors, clubs have a role to play in educating newcomers on the subject of ethics and in mentoring developing climbers, just the same as they've always had.
For what it's worth I'm a 24 year old bloke and have done in excess of 90% of my climbing either on club meets or with other members of clubs I'm part of.
It depends a lot on what type of club you're talking about, university clubs naturally do attract young people, local clubs vary widely in their success with some (like the Northumbrian Mountaineering Club and the London Mountaineering Club) being very successful (partly driven by the demographic of the population in the local area). Some clubs are somewhat challenged by the demographic in the local area and they may need to get more creative with what they're doing to draw young people in. As climbing continues to increase in popularity more indoor climbers are going to want to move outdoors, clubs have a role to play in educating newcomers on the subject of ethics and in mentoring developing climbers, just the same as they've always had.
For what it's worth I'm a 24 year old bloke and have done in excess of 90% of my climbing either on club meets or with other members of clubs I'm part of.
6
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
Traditional clubs that appeal to the younger generation are clubs that provide benefits like huts I'd say. I guess clubs use to be useful for finding partners, arranging lifts and generally an entry point into climbing. These days everyone has cars, it's easy to find partners online, through Facebook or down the wall, people generally start climbing indoors... Basically I think the purpose of clubs is changing.
I'm reasonably young (27) and I've recently joined a club. I still find the idea of being part of a club appealing, but probably not for the reasons people did 20+ years ago. Primarily my main motivation to join was access to huts. That's not to say that I have no other interest aside from that or that I'm just some freeloader looking for somewhere to doss, as I also do bits and bobs for the club. Being part of something where everyone shares a common interest though is great, but it doesn't need to be some tight nit group of people for me. More like an organisation where by pooling resources and having a network of folks within the club you can get things done collectively.
I feel like I might have missed what I was trying to say there, it's quite late and I need my bed, but you might get my drift.
Traditional clubs that appeal to the younger generation are clubs that provide benefits like huts I'd say. I guess clubs use to be useful for finding partners, arranging lifts and generally an entry point into climbing. These days everyone has cars, it's easy to find partners online, through Facebook or down the wall, people generally start climbing indoors... Basically I think the purpose of clubs is changing.
I'm reasonably young (27) and I've recently joined a club. I still find the idea of being part of a club appealing, but probably not for the reasons people did 20+ years ago. Primarily my main motivation to join was access to huts. That's not to say that I have no other interest aside from that or that I'm just some freeloader looking for somewhere to doss, as I also do bits and bobs for the club. Being part of something where everyone shares a common interest though is great, but it doesn't need to be some tight nit group of people for me. More like an organisation where by pooling resources and having a network of folks within the club you can get things done collectively.
I feel like I might have missed what I was trying to say there, it's quite late and I need my bed, but you might get my drift.
8
1
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
It's certainly a problem in many clubs. For some other clubs there are plenty of younger members 'on paper' but if they already have a pool of partners from which to draw from and just join for the hut access then they'll typically not be very active within the club (attending meets etc). In the past club activity was either the only way or at least for most a great way of finding friends and reliable partners. Unfortunately nowadays climbing walls are the new clubs - everyone goes there, there is a social aspect and people tend to meet others through this avenue. The internet has certainly had an effect but is not the main culprit in my opinion.
It's certainly a problem in many clubs. For some other clubs there are plenty of younger members 'on paper' but if they already have a pool of partners from which to draw from and just join for the hut access then they'll typically not be very active within the club (attending meets etc). In the past club activity was either the only way or at least for most a great way of finding friends and reliable partners. Unfortunately nowadays climbing walls are the new clubs - everyone goes there, there is a social aspect and people tend to meet others through this avenue. The internet has certainly had an effect but is not the main culprit in my opinion.
1
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
Interesting question. A problem I suspect many clubs may have over the next few years, and it may seem an odd problem, is too much money. Many clubs have a lot of older people and I would not be surprised if many clubs have £200 to £300K in the bank in 10 years from bequests, and where there is money there can be trouble. Just you watch.
Interesting question. A problem I suspect many clubs may have over the next few years, and it may seem an odd problem, is too much money. Many clubs have a lot of older people and I would not be surprised if many clubs have £200 to £300K in the bank in 10 years from bequests, and where there is money there can be trouble. Just you watch.
Post edited at 08:51
2
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
A club that has assets (a hut e.g.) is always going to run slightly differently to one without. It will attract people who are really only after the hut access but also will tend to make club management more formal which in turn will make it appeal to a certain demographic.
Our local club has no particular assets and is therefore 'management light' and seems to have a reasonable turn over of older and younger members alike. The club can exist for the benefit of members rather than having to exist to maintain its assets.
A club that has assets (a hut e.g.) is always going to run slightly differently to one without. It will attract people who are really only after the hut access but also will tend to make club management more formal which in turn will make it appeal to a certain demographic.
Our local club has no particular assets and is therefore 'management light' and seems to have a reasonable turn over of older and younger members alike. The club can exist for the benefit of members rather than having to exist to maintain its assets.
2
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
My club is doing well, but that's mainly due to a new wall opening up recently. There are no 'pay and play' commercial walls here so the club wall nights are the only realistic way to use the walls regularly. It's also pretty much the only way to learn to climb unless you happen to be a friend of a club member. Most members are in their 20s, with a few 'old uns' returning to the sport after kids, and a new kids section which already has a waiting list after 6 months.
My club is doing well, but that's mainly due to a new wall opening up recently. There are no 'pay and play' commercial walls here so the club wall nights are the only realistic way to use the walls regularly. It's also pretty much the only way to learn to climb unless you happen to be a friend of a club member. Most members are in their 20s, with a few 'old uns' returning to the sport after kids, and a new kids section which already has a waiting list after 6 months.
In reply to GrahamD:
Agreed, my club doesn't have a hut. The impression I get from new members is a mix of new climbers looking to move outdoors from the gym (seeking to learn from more experienced people) and experienced climbers just looking to meet more people and get out on trips. We also have a good number of hillwalkers.
Agreed, my club doesn't have a hut. The impression I get from new members is a mix of new climbers looking to move outdoors from the gym (seeking to learn from more experienced people) and experienced climbers just looking to meet more people and get out on trips. We also have a good number of hillwalkers.
1
I wonder how much geography comes into play - when I first started climbing I was living in southern England & joining a club was about the only way to meet local climbers, many years later & based in Strathspey and the only club I was a member of was the French Alpine Club (had previously lived in France & kept my CAF membership) but I knew many local climbers and my most regular partner lived a couple of houses away.
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
Interesting question. I'm a member of a club - Gloucestershire Mountaineering Club - whose hut (in Snowdonia) is a major draw to new members. However our membership is not as young as it could be; perhaps because we don't have a city like Bristol in our midst.
I also think there's a subtler reason clubs are less popular with younger people (and I think this applies to other clubs - golf etc!) which is that we take more of a consumerist approach to our activities. Clubs require compromise: a busy, reasonably well off graduate might decide he or she wants to do exactly what they want at the weekend, rather than compromise around other members.
Two examples to illustrate what I mean by a consumerist approach. Thirty years ago clubs like mine would hire a bus to go to the hills. Now, more and more members want to drive themselves (to give themselves more freedom). Sometimes we have as many as 12 cars on our meets! Secondly we've noticed members often pay a deposit for a trip and then, if a better offer comes up, simply turn down their place despite losing their deposit.
None of this is criticism - I just think there's been a social change which clubs need to adapt to. The success of tools like Meetup (for walking and climbing) might indicate the direction clubs need to take.
Interesting question. I'm a member of a club - Gloucestershire Mountaineering Club - whose hut (in Snowdonia) is a major draw to new members. However our membership is not as young as it could be; perhaps because we don't have a city like Bristol in our midst.
I also think there's a subtler reason clubs are less popular with younger people (and I think this applies to other clubs - golf etc!) which is that we take more of a consumerist approach to our activities. Clubs require compromise: a busy, reasonably well off graduate might decide he or she wants to do exactly what they want at the weekend, rather than compromise around other members.
Two examples to illustrate what I mean by a consumerist approach. Thirty years ago clubs like mine would hire a bus to go to the hills. Now, more and more members want to drive themselves (to give themselves more freedom). Sometimes we have as many as 12 cars on our meets! Secondly we've noticed members often pay a deposit for a trip and then, if a better offer comes up, simply turn down their place despite losing their deposit.
None of this is criticism - I just think there's been a social change which clubs need to adapt to. The success of tools like Meetup (for walking and climbing) might indicate the direction clubs need to take.
4
In reply to Y Gribin:
I'm in the same club that Graham mentioned above, and I think that part of the reason that we seem to be doing alright is that people can get involved in the club with basically no more effort than joining a Meetup - people who are interested in climbing can join a Facebook group (which is fairly active with people posting pictures, trip and social announcements, people arranging sessions at walls etc) or come down to the wall on a Wednesday and meet people, and not have to worry about membership forms and subs and the like until they actually want to go on an official trip.
In practice, this means that we have a largeish group of people who turn up fairly regularly at the wall and the pub - sometimes for years - and who haven't actually joined, but I think this actually works in our favour in terms of membership.
> The success of tools like Meetup (for walking and climbing) might indicate the direction clubs need to take.
I'm in the same club that Graham mentioned above, and I think that part of the reason that we seem to be doing alright is that people can get involved in the club with basically no more effort than joining a Meetup - people who are interested in climbing can join a Facebook group (which is fairly active with people posting pictures, trip and social announcements, people arranging sessions at walls etc) or come down to the wall on a Wednesday and meet people, and not have to worry about membership forms and subs and the like until they actually want to go on an official trip.
In practice, this means that we have a largeish group of people who turn up fairly regularly at the wall and the pub - sometimes for years - and who haven't actually joined, but I think this actually works in our favour in terms of membership.
Post edited at 12:25
In reply to Ramblin dave:
As a member of my local mountaineering club for many years, it's a problem that I've been aware of for a long time. We've got an active group of members involved in climbing, hillwalking and other outdoor activities, and we have a pretty good website and Facebook group.
Yet still we struggle to attract younger members. I don't think that collectively we're a particularly boring group of old farts, and the cost of club membership is low in relation to the benefits available (access to club huts, subsidised training, free lectures by top climbers etc etc)
The club has had a stable membership of over a hundred for at least the last decade, but the average age keeps creeping up.
I'd be really interested to hear from members of other clubs if they have been able to overcome this problem, and if so how.
As a member of my local mountaineering club for many years, it's a problem that I've been aware of for a long time. We've got an active group of members involved in climbing, hillwalking and other outdoor activities, and we have a pretty good website and Facebook group.
Yet still we struggle to attract younger members. I don't think that collectively we're a particularly boring group of old farts, and the cost of club membership is low in relation to the benefits available (access to club huts, subsidised training, free lectures by top climbers etc etc)
The club has had a stable membership of over a hundred for at least the last decade, but the average age keeps creeping up.
I'd be really interested to hear from members of other clubs if they have been able to overcome this problem, and if so how.
In reply to IanMcC:
If your just taking a mean average, this is just demographics and could be used as proof that people in climbing clubs live longer and are often active to a much later age
> The club has had a stable membership of over a hundred for at least the last decade, but the average age keeps creeping up.
If your just taking a mean average, this is just demographics and could be used as proof that people in climbing clubs live longer and are often active to a much later age
3
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Interesting - have you found that Meetup leads to less experienced people turning up? This was a slight worry we had; that people signing up online (rather than coming to our local wall) might sign up expecting to be 'led' on a series of activities for the weekend (a perception we're always keen to avoid!).
> I'm in the same club that Graham mentioned above, and I think that part of the reason that we seem to be doing alright is that people can get involved in the club with basically no more effort than joining a Meetup - people who are interested in climbing can join a Facebook group (which is fairly active with people posting pictures, trip and social announcements, people arranging sessions at walls etc)"..........
Interesting - have you found that Meetup leads to less experienced people turning up? This was a slight worry we had; that people signing up online (rather than coming to our local wall) might sign up expecting to be 'led' on a series of activities for the weekend (a perception we're always keen to avoid!).
1
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
I believe cycling and caving clubs are facing the same problem of ageing membership, to some extent.
It's been suggested that young folk are less interested in booze and drugs nowadays because they receive all their social stimulation from their smartphones; if that's true it won't be helping the trend of falling numbers going outdoors thanks to fear of litigation at school sports departments.
I believe cycling and caving clubs are facing the same problem of ageing membership, to some extent.
It's been suggested that young folk are less interested in booze and drugs nowadays because they receive all their social stimulation from their smartphones; if that's true it won't be helping the trend of falling numbers going outdoors thanks to fear of litigation at school sports departments.
In reply to Y Gribin:
We don't have a Meetup at the moment - just Facebook. And generally people who ask about the club on Facebook get advised to come along to the wall and meet us in person.
We get total novices turning up at the wall, and that's fine. I don't think we have an official policy, but after a bit of a phase where experienced climbers spent a lot of time babysitting novices who turned up for one trip and never came back, we've started sort-of informally expect them to have at least learnt to safely belay a leader before coming on an outdoors meet. The local wall is bouldering only, so I guess this functions as a bit of an initiative test! The time it takes probably also means that they get a bit more into the idea of what the club is about...
> Interesting - have you found that Meetup leads to less experienced people turning up? This was a slight worry we had; that people signing up online (rather than coming to our local wall) might sign up expecting to be 'led' on a series of activities for the weekend (a perception we're always keen to avoid!).
We don't have a Meetup at the moment - just Facebook. And generally people who ask about the club on Facebook get advised to come along to the wall and meet us in person.
We get total novices turning up at the wall, and that's fine. I don't think we have an official policy, but after a bit of a phase where experienced climbers spent a lot of time babysitting novices who turned up for one trip and never came back, we've started sort-of informally expect them to have at least learnt to safely belay a leader before coming on an outdoors meet. The local wall is bouldering only, so I guess this functions as a bit of an initiative test! The time it takes probably also means that they get a bit more into the idea of what the club is about...
Post edited at 14:04
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Not climbing, but running. I am not in a running club, but have joined the "Strava clubs" of several of the local clubs. These are little more than leader boards but they are fun and are a shop window into the clubs. Through them I have actually met and gone running with several local runners, have gone to their club web sites and generally been pulled into their orbit to some degree. I did almost actually join one of the clubs once, but I had to download and print a form. I don't have a printer. Such are the huge barriers to joining.
I am not young, but I do notice a good few young runners on these boards, and know that not all of them are members of the real clubs, yet.
Not climbing, but running. I am not in a running club, but have joined the "Strava clubs" of several of the local clubs. These are little more than leader boards but they are fun and are a shop window into the clubs. Through them I have actually met and gone running with several local runners, have gone to their club web sites and generally been pulled into their orbit to some degree. I did almost actually join one of the clubs once, but I had to download and print a form. I don't have a printer. Such are the huge barriers to joining.
I am not young, but I do notice a good few young runners on these boards, and know that not all of them are members of the real clubs, yet.
In reply to mbh:
Plenty of people are still running around. Have a look at this fascinating site: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#7/-2.51587/52.94202/yellow/run
Switch to cycling and take a look at the trail centres. Running shows similar concentrations, presumably where events have been held. Also find the east side of Parlick Pike, just north of Chipping, in Lancashire and tell me what you think made those weird swooping tracks! Here: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#15/-2.62934/53.90917/blue/bike
Plenty of people are still running around. Have a look at this fascinating site: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#7/-2.51587/52.94202/yellow/run
Switch to cycling and take a look at the trail centres. Running shows similar concentrations, presumably where events have been held. Also find the east side of Parlick Pike, just north of Chipping, in Lancashire and tell me what you think made those weird swooping tracks! Here: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#15/-2.62934/53.90917/blue/bike
Post edited at 16:17
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
By way of contrast, I am a reasonably old and have resisted joining the local club because its too popular and the vast majority of members are < 25 or 30 yrs old. My conclusion, having seen the club rise from the ashes of a dysfunctional old folk club into a dynamic young persons club, is that there is no shortage of enthusiasm for clubs amongst the younger generation. There is still a need for Climbing Clubs, not least because travel costs are unaffordable for individuals when the club isn't particularly close to the crags. The local club has no assets other than enthusiasm and I think that appeals to the younger generation, especially when contrasted with some of the positions taken above. Modern day climbers have as much sport under their belt as trad and haven't the time or inclination to listen to lectures on ethics, so beloved by the climbers of old. The club is successful because its alive with climbing, informally arranged, on arranged meets, at climbing wall, trad, sport and international.
( I'm also in the CC and that definitely has a demographic problem ).
Matt
By way of contrast, I am a reasonably old and have resisted joining the local club because its too popular and the vast majority of members are < 25 or 30 yrs old. My conclusion, having seen the club rise from the ashes of a dysfunctional old folk club into a dynamic young persons club, is that there is no shortage of enthusiasm for clubs amongst the younger generation. There is still a need for Climbing Clubs, not least because travel costs are unaffordable for individuals when the club isn't particularly close to the crags. The local club has no assets other than enthusiasm and I think that appeals to the younger generation, especially when contrasted with some of the positions taken above. Modern day climbers have as much sport under their belt as trad and haven't the time or inclination to listen to lectures on ethics, so beloved by the climbers of old. The club is successful because its alive with climbing, informally arranged, on arranged meets, at climbing wall, trad, sport and international.
( I'm also in the CC and that definitely has a demographic problem ).
Matt
1
In reply to mutt:
So what's the club? As you being so complimentary, I'm sure they won't mind a mention
> By way of contrast, I am a reasonably old and have resisted joining the local club because its too popular and the vast majority of members are <25 or 30 yrs old.
So what's the club? As you being so complimentary, I'm sure they won't mind a mention
Post edited at 17:20
In reply to Rigid Raider:
It's great isn't it?! I use it for route-planning when I find myself in a new part of the country and want to go for a ride/run. I think those swooping marks just indicate very, very infrequent use - you can see something similar here: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#15/-3.01137/53.40401/blue/bike (where presumably people have kept Strava tracking while on the ferry).
> .......tell me what you think made those weird swooping tracks! Here: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#15/-2.62934/53.90917/blue/bike
It's great isn't it?! I use it for route-planning when I find myself in a new part of the country and want to go for a ride/run. I think those swooping marks just indicate very, very infrequent use - you can see something similar here: http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#15/-3.01137/53.40401/blue/bike (where presumably people have kept Strava tracking while on the ferry).
In reply to Rigid Raider:
I didn't mean to imply that running has the same problem, more to suggest that the use running (and cycling, I guess) clubs make of Strava and its leader boards might be a source of ideas for climbing clubs to bring the young ones in.
I love the heat maps, whether my own (which might be a Premium feature) or those of the whole world. They, and the Flyby feature after any of my runs there both tell me that the mtb trail in my local woods is astonishingly popular.
I didn't mean to imply that running has the same problem, more to suggest that the use running (and cycling, I guess) clubs make of Strava and its leader boards might be a source of ideas for climbing clubs to bring the young ones in.
I love the heat maps, whether my own (which might be a Premium feature) or those of the whole world. They, and the Flyby feature after any of my runs there both tell me that the mtb trail in my local woods is astonishingly popular.
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
I think a lot of it comes down to geography, city clubs are always going to find it easier to get younger members. It is also the case that there are now lots of other ways of finding climbing partners which clubs have to compete with. However one of aspect which has not been mentioned is some of the crazily old-fashioned membership requirements some clubs have. I recognise that if you have club assets you may need to be careful about who you let join a club but if not there seems to be little reason to restrict your membership artificially.
I think a lot of it comes down to geography, city clubs are always going to find it easier to get younger members. It is also the case that there are now lots of other ways of finding climbing partners which clubs have to compete with. However one of aspect which has not been mentioned is some of the crazily old-fashioned membership requirements some clubs have. I recognise that if you have club assets you may need to be careful about who you let join a club but if not there seems to be little reason to restrict your membership artificially.
In reply to olddirtydoggy: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=662946 Thay should stop any 'new meat.'
In reply to Y Gribin:
Indeed that's one of the 'funnels' that the London MC uses to get new members. You go along to the indoor meetup, get some tips and helped to climb indoors, see that members are not old - and that the ones that are old aren't old in the head, and then they're all blagging about this great trip coming up in 2 weeks, and what fun stuff happened last time, etc. Then they join.
> The success of tools like Meetup (for walking and climbing) might indicate the direction clubs need to take.
Indeed that's one of the 'funnels' that the London MC uses to get new members. You go along to the indoor meetup, get some tips and helped to climb indoors, see that members are not old - and that the ones that are old aren't old in the head, and then they're all blagging about this great trip coming up in 2 weeks, and what fun stuff happened last time, etc. Then they join.
In reply to olddirtydoggy:
At the end of the day there is no obligation to take people climbing. If you don't want to then tell them you have other plans, otherwise accept the fact that your climbing ambitions might be thwarted. Having said that I've never taken a beginner out and not done any climbing myself.
At the end of the day there is no obligation to take people climbing. If you don't want to then tell them you have other plans, otherwise accept the fact that your climbing ambitions might be thwarted. Having said that I've never taken a beginner out and not done any climbing myself.
2
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Loading Notifications...