UKC

Hi all, my car failed MOT today on 3 tyres, 1 in particular was classed 'dangerous' and down to the wire. Now I hadn't really been checking things like that as I put the car in for a service twice a year (first decent car I've ever owned etc etc).

This car was at the same garage for a disc and pads replacement in October last year so I'm surprised a tyre can deteriorate that much in 6 months. Would the wheels/tyres be checked when doing other work in that area of the car or would I be wrong to assume as such?

Feel I should have kept on top of these things more but aren't tyres part of a service check?

I asked the garage (diplomatically of course) about it but didn't get much more than a bit of a shrug.

Thanks for reading all this!

In reply to Tobes:
I wouldn't expect them to check the tyres on a service. To be honest you should be checking them regularly, it's your responsibility IMO.

Bald tyres are pretty dangerous not to mention being worth 3 points per tyre and invalidating your insurance.


Edit: Here's a link on how to test them.

http://www.tyresafe.org/tyre-safety/tread-depth/

In reply to Tobes:

some garages will check stuff like that on principle and others won't in my experience - just depends on who you go to and who's on that day I guess.

As to the state of the tyres, the fronts can wear out quickly if the tracking is out even moderately. If its out a lot then you'll be through to the wire hellishly fast. I'd guess the rear if it was low but legal at the service time could quite easily go illegal in 6 months.

In reply to Tobes:

Most garages will check your tyres during a service in case they can sell you new ones but as said above if the tracking is out they go south very fast.

My top tip for tyres.
Whenever I approach my van I always cast my eye over the nearest tyre. I am not talking an in depth look, just a glance as you walk towards it.

In reply to Tobes:

For discs and pads they probably had the wheels off and on pretty quick and checking tyre wouldn't really come into it if they weren't bothered

In reply to Tobes:


With any life critical safety system it's a very bad idea to assume it will be checked without specifying that it is to be checked. I include tyre condition in that.

I give my tyres a visual tyre pressure check every week and measure the pressure every month; as part of this I look at the tread wear because it doesn't really take any more time to do so.

As said by others if the wear is caused by bad tracking you need to fix that or you'll just grind through your replacement tyres. Typically this results in low tread depth on just a band around the tyre.

If the wear was faster then normal aging (how many miles on the tyres?), then other possibilities are an "over enthusiastic driving style" or running the tyres under or over inflated.

I used to be horrified when I'd see a person driving apparently unaware that their car had a basically flat tyre, but then one day we saw (and heard) a car being driven on the metal rim in one corner with no tyre.

In reply to Tobes:
Thanks for the comments so far, yep aware of checks and the law and accept my failure on that part.

But.....if a mechanic had the wheels off a few months ago (ok 6) to change discs etc
they wouldn't inspect/look at the tyre then?

In reply to Tobes:

I get services at a chain - quicklube I think - and their checklist is ridiculously thorough. Tyres are very much on it, and dozens of other things, even movement of the top front suspension bearings.
When I got new tyres at another place - Farmer Autocare - they did a free alignment check too.

So I think you're getting poor value on your services!

In reply to Tobes:

6 months is a long time. An idea of mileage covered would be a better indication of likely wear, but as others have said it is quite possible to go from a no-comment legal tread 6m ago to a down to the wire tread now.

In reply to digby:

A lot of service stations just do what you ask them to do, so they don't sound as if they are trying to sell you something you don't want and scare you away, so if the tyres were legal and you didn't ask for a check they wouldn't do it. They would assume that you checked your tyres regularly and knew their condition.

In reply to Tobes:

How many miles have you done since October? That would give an idea of what state they were in back then.
Assuming you haven't done massive mileage, then if the mechanic had to take your wheels off to do the brakes and didn't even glance at the tyres sufficiently to see they were getting low (if only to see if they could flog you some new tyres) then I'd look for another garage.

In reply to Tobes:

One of the parts of the business i work in is a garage; we always advise on things to look out for in the next few months whenever a car is in for a service - it is nothing to look at a tyre and just point out that its looking a bit worn, and all the mechanics i know are pretty hot on safety stuff. Most people appreciate it, and usually come back when its necessary to change the part, so its good for business as well.

In reply to Tobes:

If you arent don't mega miles, Change garages.

If they aren't warning you on tyre depth, what else are they missing.?

In reply to Tobes:
So how many miles have you covered in 6 months?
If you're having the car serviced twice a year, you must be doing a fair bit of mileage

In reply to Tobes:

Swapping tyres around is part of a regular service here.

In reply to Tobes:

At the garage I worked at we always check tyres.

However and this is a big however:
You are the driver of the vehicle and it is your responsibility to check the condition of the vehicle.

Also, time doesn't really come into the wear on a tyre it is more the mileage put on them. You are saying that you have it serviced every 6 months so it wouldn't be unreasonable that in the time since your last service that they have become dangerous and you simply haven't checked.

In reply to Tobes:

Been at an AGM hence the delay. Again thanks for the comments so far.

I live in a small village and it's a local garage with a good rep, I also know the owner through various connections etc etc so it's abit delicate to get too pushy about this stuff though I would go further to settle the matter.

Of course how many miles is more relevant, I'd have to go check the service records which won't happen till tomorrow now but it's not huge (about 3500 in 6 months if rounding up) I'd estimate.

This is a first in over twenty years of car ownership and surprised that it's happened with the newest and most expensive car I've ever owned which I've been pretty militant about the servicing and general upkeep (obviously failing on checking the tyres though)

Sounds like some garages do include wheel/tyre checks in a service so not 'completely' unreasonable to expect (assume) it would seem.

In reply to Tom Shields:

Cheers Tom, all fair points and lesson learnt!

In reply to Tobes:

How come you have your car serviced every 3.5k? Not on the advice of your 'local garage with the good rep', surely?

In reply to Tobes:

Condition and pressure of tyres is always on the manufacturer's service tick-sheet and should be checked at every service.

In reply to Glyno:

Based on the service icon that appears on the console and just to make clear the services alternative as full and half services so it's not oil filter every 6 months or fuel filter every 6 months etc.

No not the garage, they seem to have more work than they actually need/want

In reply to Tobes:

In my experience a premium front tyre ( i.e. Continental, Michelin, etc)!will last around 18-20k miles, a cheap tyre a lot less - so 3.5 k fromok to dangerous is quite feasible.
A tyre will last a lot longer on the back, assuming a fwd car.
Might be worth getting your wheel alignment checked though.

3500 miles between service indicators seems very short though - modern engine oils cope with 10k + no bother.

In reply to Tobes:

What vehicle is this, that requires an interim/6 monthly service on 3.5K miles. An interim service is generally only relevant to a high mileage vehicle.

In reply to colinakmc:


Blimey, what do you drive? I get c.30K from a mid range tyre on the front wheels on a big heavy car (1.8tonnes) with a reputation for rapid tyre wear (VW Sharan). Under 20K from a premium tyre would be terrible.

In reply to Tobes:

If you've been driving on rough tracks or you've kerbed a wheel you could have knocked the wheel out of alignment, which will wear the tyre very fast. British roads are getting as bad as African roads so wheel and tyre damage are becoming more common. In the USA my brother has special insurance for his wheels and tyres. Or tires, rather.

In reply to Rigid Raider:


This - hit the kerb or a pothole then your tracking can go out - if this happens, you can easily trash your tyres in less than 1000 miles.

In reply to Tobes:

A generic reply to answer a few of the questions.

It's a Skoda Octavia green line diesel 1.6

I drive rough tracks a fair bit, the Angus glens etc but like to think I drive competently around pot holes, poor surfaces etc (maybe this is telling me otherwise)

Only the specific example (the last 6 months) has my mileage been that low. The few years before that it was higher (more usage, regular commuting)

Before this example my service and interim services were based on mileage and dash board indicator. As my usage is a lot less now I guess 'going forward' my services will probably settle down to yearly.

My specific question remains 6 month use/about 3500miles can a tyre go from legal to 'the wire' and does 'any' service (or work on pads/discs involve lookin at/inspecting/assessing/glancing at the Tyres and feeding this back to the customer)

Most of the above has been answered in one way or other, appreciate people's contributions so far

In reply to Tobes:

Mixed bag of peoples experiences re-garages informing you about tyres getting dodgy or not.

I'd say most garages probably inform you if the tyre is close to end of life... New tyres have about 8mm tread on them, it's recommended to replace at sub 3mm and legal limit is 1.8mm if I remember correctly.

I've had plenty of fairly normal cars that eat a set of front tyres in 15k to 20k miles and heavy powerful ones that get through a set every 12k... rear tyres usually last about 40 to 50k (front wheel drive cars).

So - if garage sees tyres with more than about 5mm tread they are unlikely to advise as even on a car that eats tyres that still leaves a fair bit of margin and the tyre is barely half worn... at about 4mm they area much more likely to be saying you'll be needing one soonish....

Is your tyre(s) worn more heavily on an edge? If so that definitely indicates tracking or suspension issues causing uneven wear and once the problem manifests it could easily take a very legal tyre down to the wire in short order.

In reply to Tobes:

You're bleeding lucky mate. My tyres usually last less than an hour or so and only cover about 150 miles. And they cost a ruddy packet. *ucking Pirellis!

In reply to Tobes:
Spot on. Modern cars are designed as lighweight as possible and it's easy to knock a sub-assembly out of alignment. Driving on rough tracks will have done this and a mis-aligned wheel will produce very rapid wear to part of the tread, sometimes with a sawtooth pattern or feathering between grooves. I had a battle with VAG over early rear tyre wear and noise on my B6 Passat and in the end they agreed to pay the cost of re-aligning the rear sub-frames, which seemed not to have been set accurately at the factory. I sent a photo of the tyre spinning on a balance rig to VAG UK, which showed the worn part very clearly and curiously, a few weeks later I received a phone call out of the blue from a VW chassis engineer in Germany asking if I would kindly email a copy of the pic to him. My B8 model is now at 34,000 miles with no sign of that premature rear tyre wear.

The only vehicle that can really withstand the daily punishment of unsurfaced roads is one with solid axles like a Land Rover, where two strong beam axles are suspended under the vehicle on long supple springs with long locating links. On these the position of the wheels is fixed and can't change unless you bend an axle but the bushes wear out and the setup is heavy and can't be assembled easily by robots.

My local VW dealer never misses an opportunity to sell me parts so will call me during the service if they find anything like worn tyres.

In reply to imkevinmc:


Two things affect servicing needs - mileage, and time. Cambelts are 'change every x thousand miles or every y years, which ever soonest.'* My boat engine and sterndrive require annual oil changes regardless of hours run. His dash indicator possibly has a 6 month timer on it?
* One local main dealer failed to change my mate's cambelt because the technician said it hadn't done the mileage even though it had done the time. Needless to say my mate stopped using them.

In reply to Rigid Raider:
Thanks RR for a detailed and well reasoned reply.

The Skoda is front wheel drive and the 'dangerous' tyre was one of the rears just to add more detail. Taking on board other suggestions this is likely down to alignment issues?

Final question then! Would/should a garage re check alignment after removal/replacement of discs, or does that just require a balance check?

Cheers

In reply to Ferret:

Thanks,

unfortunately the tyres were removed and replaced when I went to collect the car so couldn't say exactly where the wear was.

In reply to Tobes:

As mentioned above, most garages are more than happy to point out if a tyre is getting on or might be close to renewal in the next few months - it's an easy sell if nothing else.

Where was the wear? If it was all over, odds are the garage didn't check or forgot to tell you. If the tyre was bald in a stripe down the middle, it has likely spent time over inflated. If it was bald at the edges, but ok in the middle it has probably spent time under inflated. If it was worn down one edge, your wheel alignment probably wants looking at. If it was in one spot, you might have had a bulge from clipping a kerb, stone or pothole. Unless the wear is even, it's very plausible that you could have trashed perfectly good tyres in 6 months, even with very moderate mileage.

For your own checks, be aware that when the car has all 4 wheels on the ground, it is not necessarily easy to get a good look at much but the outside couple of inches of the tyres - you'll need to be on your hands and knees to see the full width. It's very easy to have a quick glance and not spot a tyre that is wearing unevenly.

In reply to Tobes:


It doesn't need to check either of those, when refitting the wheels they will just go back on the way they came off.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Thanks Neil

and further thanks to all those that responded.

In reply to Tobes:

Hi, If you're having the car serviced twice a year it sounds like you're covering a decent number of miles ?.

If the tyres misaligned/out of balance then it'll scrub the pattern away in no time so in this scenario its perfectly possible you've knackered it in six months.

In reply to mattlee:


see 0947

Regards

In reply to Tobes:

Aaah ok, didn't see that.

3500 Miles doesn't sound like a lot but I guess its down to the condition of the tyre(s) on the last service. If they were getting ready for a change at that point then its absolutely possible that the extra 3500 miles has finished them off.

Any dealer worth its salt should have shouted up that the tyres were on their way out but there's no rule to follow on this.....its also the case that if that particular dealer doesn't do tyres they could well have taken a view of "Not my problem".

What I would do, (You may have done this already so forgive me), is have a full Track/Balance done on the replacements because otherwise you'll be back at square one.

In reply to Tobes:

Look carefully at the rear wheels of older Passats and Skodas and you'll be able to see that they have a degree or two of inward lean, which is called positive camber. It gets more pronounced if the car is loaded. If the wheel isn't tracking exactly straight, you'll get feathering and wear on the inside edge because it is being scrubbed slightly sideways all the time. My understanding is (and I may be wrong here) that the sub-frames holding the wheel and suspension to the car body are bolted on with eccentric fittings to allow a small amount of adjustment of the line of the wheel.

In reply to Tobes:
...Would/should a garage re check alignment after removal/replacement of discs, or does that just require a balance check? Cheers
Changing the brakes wouldn't require any balancing/alignment of wheels.
And to answer the previous question. Any garage worth using would notice if a tyre on a wheel they removed to service the brakes was heavily or unevenly worn and would inform the customer. A standard periodic service should include an inspection of the tyres for uneven/excessive wear and a pressure check.

In reply to Tobes:


Alarm bells? So who says they worn and dangerous ? Classic garage chicanery? And did you say they replaced 3 tyres ?

In reply to gethin_allen:

Cheers pal, I'll bring all this up with the owner next week, he may be unaware that stuffs getting missed.

will also be more proactive about my own checks from now on.

In reply to dunc56:

I live in a small well connected and integrated village (already mentioned previously) where I don't suspect local businesses are out to rip off local residents (or anyone else for that matter).

Sorry to disappoint you there. I think it's possible that standards have slipped is all.

In reply to Tobes:

So they just leave you open to prosecution that's ok then.

In reply to Rigid Raider:

I bent the tie bar on my jeep which did horrific things to the tracking as the tracking changed as you turned the front wheels. I ended up with scalloping and an expensive trip to the tyre shop.

This all happened really fast once the tracking was off

In reply to pec:

I was thinking back to a Peugeot 207sw and ok, it might have given me 22k frommost front tyres (a lot more from the back) Nowadays I've got a BMW on Continental runflats which are horrendous for wear although awesome for grip.

I wonder if there's a sweet spot - premium= more grip and poor wear, midrange, harder rubber, less grip but less wear? My only experiences of cheaper tyres has been from buying secondhand cars already on Barums or whatever, which offer no grip and no tread life. I like grippy tyres but, to paraphrase other posts, I keep an eye on the tyre wear myself.

In reply to Tobes:


As a driver you really have a responsibility to check your own tyres regularly.

Damage due to clipping a kerb or hitting a pothole could easily effect the tracking and take a tyre down to the wire in weeks rather than months.

If this causes an accident it would not be acceptable to claim that the garage might have checked your tyres 6 months ago.

In reply to timjones:

Aye got it, if you've read every post on this thread you'll be aware of that.

There hasn't been an accident, I'm not holding the garage responsible or intending to for a possible accident in the future.

This was a genuine enquiry/question which on the whole has been answered by many in a measured, detailed and non judgemental manner.

Regards

In reply to colinakmc:


That seems terrible tyre mileage for such a small car.


Michelins used to have a reputation for lasting ages, my first car had them on and the rubber was almost perishing before thye tread wore out. A few years ago we stuck Michelins in my wife's car (Peugeot 406 diesel, so again, quite a heavy car) and they didn't last any longer than the mid price tyres we normally used so I've never bothered with them since.
I've never noticed any real difference in grip regardless of what tyres are on my car, perhaps that's a reflection of how I drive?
I wonder if I get decent mileage out of tyres because most of my miles are on motorways and A roads i.e. straight lines, very little turning and manoeuvring? Before I bought my car (VW Sharan a.k.a. Ford Galaxy) I'd heard of its reputation for eating tyres (c.15K miles) so was pleasantly surprised to get 30K out of them and even that was only because the tracking was out (now fixed) so they wore unevenly, otherwise I'd have got more.

In reply to pec:
Small car but surprisingly heavy (c. 1400 kg if I remember rightly) and quite skinny tyres. Also mostly city/ urban motorway driving with (I'd better fess up) a fairly heavy throttle foot. But your 30k miles, even with motorway use, seems exceptional to me - I've never got that from a set of tyres on the driven wheels of any car.

In reply to colinakmc:

My Cooper S used to eat a set of fronts in 4-5k. Really struggled to put the power down uphill.
Tracking was out, too. Wore off the insides.