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Has the Stanage Sticker scheme ended? They seem to have disappeared from the online sales channels at least.
Shame, even though I probably used the P&D car park far less than would give value for money it was a scheme I was happy to support.
Shame, even though I probably used the P&D car park far less than would give value for money it was a scheme I was happy to support.
In reply to Neil Williams:
Yup, the PDNPA unilaterally cancelled it. So now the only option (apart from paying individually each time) is to buy a park-wide parking permit (£40 if you're not a resident).
Not surprisingly, people are fairly unhappy about this (especially as the Stanage Sticker seemed to be working well) and about how it's been handled.
There's a detailed report in the April BMC Peak Area newsletter:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/peak-area-newsletter-april-2017
Yup, the PDNPA unilaterally cancelled it. So now the only option (apart from paying individually each time) is to buy a park-wide parking permit (£40 if you're not a resident).
Not surprisingly, people are fairly unhappy about this (especially as the Stanage Sticker seemed to be working well) and about how it's been handled.
There's a detailed report in the April BMC Peak Area newsletter:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/peak-area-newsletter-april-2017
8
In reply to slab_happy:
Well, that's highly disappointing, and the outcome is that they will get £0, as I'll just park elsewhere instead. I was happy to see up to about £20 as a donation with a bonus of a day or two's parking included, £40 is way too much.
Thanks though.
Neil
Well, that's highly disappointing, and the outcome is that they will get £0, as I'll just park elsewhere instead. I was happy to see up to about £20 as a donation with a bonus of a day or two's parking included, £40 is way too much.
Thanks though.
Neil
Post edited at 08:55
15
In reply to Neil Williams:
In the interest of as many people as possible reading them - given one has to follow a link, download a pdf, and find the right page - I've copied Henry Folkard's words below, as I think that they're important and should be read by as many people as possible.
In the interest of as many people as possible reading them - given one has to follow a link, download a pdf, and find the right page - I've copied Henry Folkard's words below, as I think that they're important and should be read by as many people as possible.
> There has been a flurry of access relevant things since the last meeting, so this report will be more about headlines than details, but as ever if you want more by way of detail, please do ask at the meeting.
> First off, Stanage North Lees. At our February meeting Dave Turnbull was asked to write to Sarah Fowler, CEO of the Peak District National Park Authority (PDNPA), to ask her to reconsider a decision made unilaterally and without any stakeholder consultation to abolish the Stanage Sticker. It is all the more ironic that this high-handed attitude came from an organisation which says it believes in partnership and consultation: actions speak louder than words. By its actions PDNPA shows itself to be incapable of listening to those who would be its friends and supporters.
> Dave duly wrote, and a copy of his letter, along with the unacceptably duplicitous reply, will be to hand at the meeting. The gist of the reply was that the sticker has not been abolished but reinvented at £40 p.a. (instead of £15) and will be park-wide. This implies a total misconception of what the sticker was about, as a park-wide scheme already exists. It was about a key stakeholder group putting something back into a place they cared about, and being told how income generated was being spent at North Lees.
> The BMC actively promoted the scheme, Outside in Hathersage helped, and a number of BMC volunteers, including our Peak Area chairman, put a lot of effort into selling it. It was working: it was achieving what it set out to achieve and, as a bonus, because it was transparent and reasonable, it nurtured a lot of goodwill. So I suppose it’s logical that an allegedly cash-strapped authority with its head in the clouds sees the way forward for Stanage North Lees as getting rid of a single, approachable and accountable property manager who did a first-rate job for the place and for the national park, and replacing her with three or four service managers, none of whom have overall responsibility for North Lees nor an overview of how the many aspects of its management are inter-related. All are on a higher salary than the single site-specific property manager they replace. For them, Stanage has seemingly ceased to exist as a special place. It’s just a series of piecemeal parkwide management functions and has no unique identity or value. Sheffield and its people do not exist either.
> The sting is in the tail. Beware. From 1 April, along with the new ‘sticker’, will come enforcement of pay and display parking by a company that generates its income, in part at least, from the number of penalty fines it can impose. This relates to national park car parks, which, along the Eastern Edges are at Stanage Plantation (Hollin Bank) and Surprise View. So, welcome to the national park. It was set up for purposes of conservation and enjoying its special qualities.The main focus now seems to be income generation for the institution of the authority, and abandonment of dialogue with stakeholders, or any ability, despite the rhetoric on the part of its senior management, to work with stakeholders or community. They will just tell us what is good for us, and we will dutifully comply – or will we?
> PDNPA is also to set up a charitable trust along with a company limited by guarantee as part of its Giving Strategy. While the paper proposing this says how PDNPA will benefit it says nothing about how it will relate to charitable and nongovernment organisations which have to rely on donations because they do not enjoy a still-substantial grant from central government, and yet do a terrific job for the Peak landscape, and our enjoyment of it – or does PDNPA want to corner the market on Peak-inspired giving just for itself?
19
In reply to Valkyrie1968:
Thanks for putting that up. I wasn't aware the scheme wasn't running anymore, if parking charges are going to be enforced at surprise view etc. Surely that will just increase pressure on the free parking at popular/burbage bridge.
I personally wouldn't mind the £40 one, it seems a bit steep but I'd see it as a contribution to the park, if it covered ALL the car parks in the Peak area. I know it doesn't (or never used to) cover NT car parks and not sure about places like Edale village. So if I have to check individually when I arrive at a car park, it's more hassle than it's worth.
Edit: I often put into the honesty box at popular, if I have some change, so I know it's not technically free. But a lot of people treat it as such.
Thanks for putting that up. I wasn't aware the scheme wasn't running anymore, if parking charges are going to be enforced at surprise view etc. Surely that will just increase pressure on the free parking at popular/burbage bridge.
I personally wouldn't mind the £40 one, it seems a bit steep but I'd see it as a contribution to the park, if it covered ALL the car parks in the Peak area. I know it doesn't (or never used to) cover NT car parks and not sure about places like Edale village. So if I have to check individually when I arrive at a car park, it's more hassle than it's worth.
Edit: I often put into the honesty box at popular, if I have some change, so I know it's not technically free. But a lot of people treat it as such.
Post edited at 09:57
2
In reply to Neil Williams:
Last time I visited Stanage we went to park at plantation until we noticed the parking charges have gone up again and decided to park on the road.
When will people realise that if they charge a sensible amount (Say £3 for 4hrs+) people will happily pay it but at £4.50 people will do their best to avoid paying and on the whole they will collect less.
The same applies with things like prices for refreshments on trains or at service stations. Offer things for a sensible prices and you'll sell loads.
Last time I visited Stanage we went to park at plantation until we noticed the parking charges have gone up again and decided to park on the road.
When will people realise that if they charge a sensible amount (Say £3 for 4hrs+) people will happily pay it but at £4.50 people will do their best to avoid paying and on the whole they will collect less.
The same applies with things like prices for refreshments on trains or at service stations. Offer things for a sensible prices and you'll sell loads.
10
In reply to Neil Williams:
Agreed. The whole idea of having a reasonably priced annual pass (was it £15?) that would go to into a ring fenced fund to be spent on the North Lees estate has now been turned into a money making scheme to generate income that will just drop into the melting pot of the general PDNP finances.
Shame.
> Well, that's highly disappointing, and the outcome is that they will get £0, as I'll just park elsewhere instead. I was happy to see up to about £20 as a donation with a bonus of a day or two's parking included, £40 is way too much.Thanks though.Neil
Agreed. The whole idea of having a reasonably priced annual pass (was it £15?) that would go to into a ring fenced fund to be spent on the North Lees estate has now been turned into a money making scheme to generate income that will just drop into the melting pot of the general PDNP finances.
Shame.
5
In reply to Valkyrie1968:
I have been led to believe that parking charges are not enforceable at Surprise View or Stanage Plantation, is the true or false?
I have been led to believe that parking charges are not enforceable at Surprise View or Stanage Plantation, is the true or false?
In reply to J1234:
If the signs meet the legislation I'd imagine they are now enforceable. I've heard it said that it is to managed by contractors who will no doubt chase you for it now that the courts have rules in their favour.
> I have been led to believe that parking charges are not enforceable at Surprise View or Stanage Plantation, is the true or false?
If the signs meet the legislation I'd imagine they are now enforceable. I've heard it said that it is to managed by contractors who will no doubt chase you for it now that the courts have rules in their favour.
2
In reply to gethin_allen:
Sorry to push, but that is not a definitive answer to my question
> If the signs meet the legislation I'd imagine they are now enforceable.
Sorry to push, but that is not a definitive answer to my question
In reply to J1234:
Ive supported and defended PDNPA for years over their actions i.e. " they have had cut after cut and just doing what they have to do". But I've lost my patience with them now....
They seem to have totally lost any real direction and foresight. They're wandering around on a moor looking directly up into the sky and wondering why the arent ending up where they want to be.
Ive supported and defended PDNPA for years over their actions i.e. " they have had cut after cut and just doing what they have to do". But I've lost my patience with them now....
They seem to have totally lost any real direction and foresight. They're wandering around on a moor looking directly up into the sky and wondering why the arent ending up where they want to be.
Post edited at 16:25
3
In reply to J1234:
False, the charges are enforceable even though they have not been enforced in the past.
Whether it's desirable or wise to enforce them, especially by outsourcing the enforcement to a heavy handed tickets-for-profit kind of a company, is another question.
False, the charges are enforceable even though they have not been enforced in the past.
Whether it's desirable or wise to enforce them, especially by outsourcing the enforcement to a heavy handed tickets-for-profit kind of a company, is another question.
1
In reply to J1234:
If you've been ticketed, go and have a look at the signs. If they are clear and obvious then you can try and appeal but unless they are feeling charitable you'll have to pay up. If the signs are particularly small or obscure then you should have a good appeal and there are higher authorities to take it to if you are still not happy.
If you've been ticketed, go and have a look at the signs. If they are clear and obvious then you can try and appeal but unless they are feeling charitable you'll have to pay up. If the signs are particularly small or obscure then you should have a good appeal and there are higher authorities to take it to if you are still not happy.
In reply to Neil Williams:
This is so disappointing.
I bought a sticker last year because I thought it was A Good Thing and never actually parked there as I was always somewhere else. There must have been other climbers like me who want to contribute a very reasonable sum to climbers parking but, as others have said, will not do so at £40.
What an arrogant, high-handed attitude by the CEO and management
This is so disappointing.
I bought a sticker last year because I thought it was A Good Thing and never actually parked there as I was always somewhere else. There must have been other climbers like me who want to contribute a very reasonable sum to climbers parking but, as others have said, will not do so at £40.
What an arrogant, high-handed attitude by the CEO and management
4
In reply to gethin_allen:
I was led to believe that as it is/was access land that parking charges are not enforceable.
I was led to believe that as it is/was access land that parking charges are not enforceable.
In reply to J1234:
If you're thinking about right to roam I'm fairly certain this doesn't cover cars.
> I was led to believe that as it is/was access land that parking charges are not enforceable.
If you're thinking about right to roam I'm fairly certain this doesn't cover cars.
8
In reply to J1234:
Best of luck taking on an aggressive debt enforcement agency - let us know how you get on. The parking law has swung in their favour following a few cases.
Best of luck taking on an aggressive debt enforcement agency - let us know how you get on. The parking law has swung in their favour following a few cases.
2
In reply to Neil Williams:
My Stanage sticker has a 2016 / 2017 label on it. As some others, I don't think I've actually used it, but it was a way of contributing to a scheme that I thought was very positive. I now believe that I entered into a contract with the Park Authority and am entitled to park at Stanage without charge until 2018?
My Stanage sticker has a 2016 / 2017 label on it. As some others, I don't think I've actually used it, but it was a way of contributing to a scheme that I thought was very positive. I now believe that I entered into a contract with the Park Authority and am entitled to park at Stanage without charge until 2018?
1
In reply to gethin_allen:
I may be wrong, but this reads to me as if you're under the impression that it's a private car park like a supermarket or a motorway service station.
If so, you're mistaken about that - the PDNPA is a local authority and I'm pretty sure that means any ticket issued would be a 'real' PCN. (Not a "Parking Charge Notice" that depends on some assumed contract between driver and landowner.)
> If you've been ticketed, go and have a look at the signs. If they are clear and obvious then you can try and appeal but unless they are feeling charitable you'll have to pay up. If the signs are particularly small or obscure then you should have a good appeal and there are higher authorities to take it to if you are still not happy.
I may be wrong, but this reads to me as if you're under the impression that it's a private car park like a supermarket or a motorway service station.
If so, you're mistaken about that - the PDNPA is a local authority and I'm pretty sure that means any ticket issued would be a 'real' PCN. (Not a "Parking Charge Notice" that depends on some assumed contract between driver and landowner.)
1
In reply to Rick Scott:
2016/2017 = One year from April 2016 until April 2017.
If the PDNPA hadn't killed the scheme we'd all be on to our 2017/18 stickers by now..
2016/2017 = One year from April 2016 until April 2017.
If the PDNPA hadn't killed the scheme we'd all be on to our 2017/18 stickers by now..
2
In reply to J1234:
I think something along those lines was the case at one time. Or perhaps it was something to do with the constitution of the PDNPA itself - perhaps to do with the original foundation of the National Park.
Whatever it was, I vaguely remember reading on here a good few years back that things had changed and the charges had become enforceable. (I don't have time to hunt for the thread I saw now, but you might still find it in the archive if you search.) At the time the change was a bit academic as the authority decided (wisely imo) not to enforce the charges anyway.
> I was led to believe that as it is/was access land that parking charges are not enforceable.
I think something along those lines was the case at one time. Or perhaps it was something to do with the constitution of the PDNPA itself - perhaps to do with the original foundation of the National Park.
Whatever it was, I vaguely remember reading on here a good few years back that things had changed and the charges had become enforceable. (I don't have time to hunt for the thread I saw now, but you might still find it in the archive if you search.) At the time the change was a bit academic as the authority decided (wisely imo) not to enforce the charges anyway.
In reply to J1234:
I was under the impression the parking wasn't enforced also, the fact ive parked in the national park car parks without paying all over the peak for the last 2 years seems to suggest this is the case, for the moment at least
I was under the impression the parking wasn't enforced also, the fact ive parked in the national park car parks without paying all over the peak for the last 2 years seems to suggest this is the case, for the moment at least
1
In reply to deepsoup:
Thanks for that clarification. .............. how sad they ditched the scheme!
Thanks for that clarification. .............. how sad they ditched the scheme!
1
In reply to deepsoup:
Thanks, thats the kind of thing, I think the PenYPass Car Park is similar.
Thanks, thats the kind of thing, I think the PenYPass Car Park is similar.
Post edited at 19:51
In reply to admackie:
I spoke to a park ranger at the plantation car park and whilst right now they are not enforcing parking charges, they will be soon.
I spoke to a park ranger at the plantation car park and whilst right now they are not enforcing parking charges, they will be soon.
1
In reply to admackie:
I believe, but don't quote me, that they have contracted a private company to take care of issuing the notices for non-paid car parking and that company will be making it's profit from those charges it collects. I was told that they were at the Surprise car park, but didn't issue any tickets as the machine was not working again!
Both these are hearsay, and no doubt someone with more knowledge will be on here to either agree with or correct me.
I believe, but don't quote me, that they have contracted a private company to take care of issuing the notices for non-paid car parking and that company will be making it's profit from those charges it collects. I was told that they were at the Surprise car park, but didn't issue any tickets as the machine was not working again!
Both these are hearsay, and no doubt someone with more knowledge will be on here to either agree with or correct me.
In reply to Neil Williams:
My sticker says 16-17, is this inclusive of all months in these years , or more of a taxable year- i.e. April 2016 to March 2017 ?
Thanks,
Adrian
My sticker says 16-17, is this inclusive of all months in these years , or more of a taxable year- i.e. April 2016 to March 2017 ?
Thanks,
Adrian
1
2
In reply to deepsoup:
I was thinking it's private land but, even if it's not, if the signage is dodgy/unclear etc. Then you have grounds for appeal. In fact, appealing to council parking fines is often more successful.
> I may be wrong, but this reads to me as if you're under the impression that it's a private car park like a supermarket or a motorway service station. If so, you're mistaken about that - the PDNPA is a local authority and I'm pretty sure that means any ticket issued would be a 'real' PCN. (Not a "Parking Charge Notice" that depends on some assumed contract between driver and landowner.)
I was thinking it's private land but, even if it's not, if the signage is dodgy/unclear etc. Then you have grounds for appeal. In fact, appealing to council parking fines is often more successful.
In reply to deepsoup:
That's how I noticed it had ended - I went looking to buy this year's and they had disappeared.
That's how I noticed it had ended - I went looking to buy this year's and they had disappeared.
In reply to J1234:
Pen Y Pass is maybe a bit different because it has a capacity problem. The P&D car park at Stanage doesn't.
Re enforcement (as I think that's what you meant) I thought they now were enforcing it, but equally I don't know as I don't dodge parking fees, if you don't like the fees don't park.
Pen Y Pass is maybe a bit different because it has a capacity problem. The P&D car park at Stanage doesn't.
Re enforcement (as I think that's what you meant) I thought they now were enforcing it, but equally I don't know as I don't dodge parking fees, if you don't like the fees don't park.
Post edited at 10:14
2
In reply to gethin_allen:
If you park and don't pay, just pay up. You took a chance and failed. Pay to park and no excessive fine is an easy quick option. Don't want to pay, don't park in that car park. It's like people who speed and then complain about the fine!
I hate parking charges as much as the next person, but accept the above and find free places to park, or don't go somewhere, like Rotherham and Sheffield city centres, because I am not going to pay to park to spend my money in the shops.
Not aimed at you personally Gethin.
If you park and don't pay, just pay up. You took a chance and failed. Pay to park and no excessive fine is an easy quick option. Don't want to pay, don't park in that car park. It's like people who speed and then complain about the fine!
I hate parking charges as much as the next person, but accept the above and find free places to park, or don't go somewhere, like Rotherham and Sheffield city centres, because I am not going to pay to park to spend my money in the shops.
Not aimed at you personally Gethin.
In reply to Neil Williams:
What a backward step in so many ways. Prices is up and hassle is up.
I bought my Stanage sticker from the bike shop down the road.
Now I've got to fill in a form, write a cheque and get it to Bakewell. And spend £10 more (resident ones are £25).
What a backward step in so many ways. Prices is up and hassle is up.
I bought my Stanage sticker from the bike shop down the road.
Now I've got to fill in a form, write a cheque and get it to Bakewell. And spend £10 more (resident ones are £25).
In reply to johncook:
I Agree, but as I say, if the signs are properly obscured and you honestly didn't see them then you have a cause for appeal.
> If you park and don't pay, just pay up. You took a chance and failed. Pay to park and no excessive fine is an easy quick option. Don't want to pay, don't park in that car park. It's like people who speed and then complain about the fine!I hate parking charges as much as the next person, but accept the above and find free places to park, or don't go somewhere, like Rotherham and Sheffield city centres, because I am not going to pay to park to spend my money in the shops.Not aimed at you personally Gethin.
I Agree, but as I say, if the signs are properly obscured and you honestly didn't see them then you have a cause for appeal.
1
In reply to gethin_allen:
Now that he's participated in an internet discussion about the parking charges it might be tricky to plead ignorance.
> I Agree, but as I say, if the signs are properly obscured and you honestly didn't see them then you have a cause for appeal.
Now that he's participated in an internet discussion about the parking charges it might be tricky to plead ignorance.
3
In reply to Neil Williams:
I looked in to the fees the other day as i spend 2-4 days a week parking in the Park whilst working.
The £40 ticket is only applicable to PDNPA owned car parks of which there are 45 within the Park, and only 19 of these 45 require you to pay. So the 'one ticket fits all' perspective of the £40 isn't quite so. In several locations you'll end up having to recce the various car parks to see which is PDNPA owned.
The list is here - http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/visiting/parking/parking-locations
A 'frequent user' annual parking ticket, even one which was a reasonably large amount of money (as i pay £3-£8 per day, circa 4+ times a week, circa 30+ weeks of the year = at least £360 pa) would be appreciated.
Doubtless, the mish mash of car park owners, land owners, bureaucracy and cost of implementing this will probably make it a non-starter.
// TomoThompson
I looked in to the fees the other day as i spend 2-4 days a week parking in the Park whilst working.
The £40 ticket is only applicable to PDNPA owned car parks of which there are 45 within the Park, and only 19 of these 45 require you to pay. So the 'one ticket fits all' perspective of the £40 isn't quite so. In several locations you'll end up having to recce the various car parks to see which is PDNPA owned.
The list is here - http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/visiting/parking/parking-locations
A 'frequent user' annual parking ticket, even one which was a reasonably large amount of money (as i pay £3-£8 per day, circa 4+ times a week, circa 30+ weeks of the year = at least £360 pa) would be appreciated.
Doubtless, the mish mash of car park owners, land owners, bureaucracy and cost of implementing this will probably make it a non-starter.
// TomoThompson
In reply to gethin_allen:
Agreed, but I find people looking carefully for things they've done wrong e.g. misspellings, missing end lines on yellow lines etc to be a bit rich. If you (wilfully) did the crime, as it were...
> I Agree, but as I say, if the signs are properly obscured and you honestly didn't see them then you have a cause for appeal.
Agreed, but I find people looking carefully for things they've done wrong e.g. misspellings, missing end lines on yellow lines etc to be a bit rich. If you (wilfully) did the crime, as it were...
1
In reply to Swig:
It also helped promote local business. If you went in for a sticker you might also buy something else.
It also helped promote local business. If you went in for a sticker you might also buy something else.
2
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