/ "A millionaire is an ordinary person"

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The Ice Doctor - on 16 May 2017
This is a provocative statement.

There are 1826 Billionaires in the world, there are 15 million millionaires in the world. Can you really describe a millionaire as ordinary?

Opinions on a postcard please.

Send them to R. Murdoch.
15
Postmanpat on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

And there are 15 million trolls in the world. Are they ordinary people or nutjobs?

Opinions on a postcard please.....
2
mrphilipoldham - on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Why shouldn't they be normal? They'd only be unusual to someone driven entirely by their desire for money (whether they had any or not).
The New NickB - on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

> This is a provocative statement.There are 1826 Billionaires in the world, there are 15 million millionaires in the world. Can you really describe a millionaire as ordinary?Opinions on a postcard please.Send them to R. Murdoch.

I know a few millionaires who I would say are ordinary people, they are wealthier than the average, but inflation, particularly in house prices, means that ordinary people can accrue assets of over a million pounds.

People in parts of London are living in million pound houses, that are quite modest and could have been bought 25 years ago for £100,000. Less common I suppose outside the South East, but I am outside the South East and I know people who run small businesses or have had mid ranking professional careers who are probably millionaires, without appearing anything but ordinary. Driving Fords and VWs, not Rolls Royces and Bentleys.
1
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 16 May 2017
In reply to The New NickB:

"Driving Fords and VWs, not Rolls Royces and Bentleys."

This is an interesting point. Was chatting to friends who live in a decent London suburb (not the best but decent) who said that they had noticed that most of the nicest houses ( £1.5m plus) would have "normal" cars parked on the drive. A mile down the road to a cheaper area and the car stock noticeably jumps to high end German and UK (Indian) prestige cars.
The Ice Doctor - on 16 May 2017
In reply to The New NickB:

OK. Thankyou for a great response.

Reason for the posting: Topical debate this morning with two buddies. Just thought I would 'share.'
7
stevieb - on 16 May 2017
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

A friend who went campaigning years ago, in the two party days, had a theory;
big house, cheap car - labour
small house, expensive car - conservative

I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, but I always thought this had a nugget of truth
2
The Potato - on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

are you confusing ordinary with commonplace?
A person being ordinary has nothing to do with their number as a % of a population. Describing being a millionaire as an ordinary occurrence is also correct as there are people with 0 and people with billions so it is therefore given that there are millionaires.
BnB - on 16 May 2017
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> "Driving Fords and VWs, not Rolls Royces and Bentleys."This is an interesting point. Was chatting to friends who live in a decent London suburb (not the best but decent) who said that they had noticed that most of the nicest houses ( £1.5m plus) would have "normal" cars parked on the drive. A mile down the road to a cheaper area and the car stock noticeably jumps to high end German and UK (Indian) prestige cars.

I find this phenomenon particularly in the legal profession where it seems to be almost a badge of honour to drive aroudn in the oldest battered Renault. One of my pals is a lawyer of very high repute and I know his partnership earnings, let alone his wealth, to be in the region £2m pa, yet he's just swapped his 14 year old Jag for a second hand Volvo.

He does have a nice house though. And suffers terribly from depression, which recalls the old saying of course.

Outside the professions, I know quite a few entrepreneurs and they're all normal blokes or lasses, but with a sharp eye for business. Their friends are the people they grew up with, or share a neighbourhood with, or support a team with, or go climbing with. In the north there isn't the ghetto-isation of wealth that you find in London. Except parts of Cheshire maybe.
The New NickB - on 16 May 2017
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
I think my point is more that these are people with reasonable but not really high incomes, who are millionaires now in part because they have not spent money on flashy cars.

I get your point though.
Post edited at 13:10
3leggeddog on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

If the 1M is household wealth, then many in middle age will be almost there. Summing up housing, savings and pension pots, many will be millionaires on or before retirement. Poor millionaires because they still need somewhere to live and pensions may be locked in but millionaires.
GrahamD - on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Clearly millionaires are more common now than in the past. Inflation makes that almost innevitable, especially in property.
The Potato - on 16 May 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

it would be interesting to compare the number of persons now classed as millionaires with those in the past taking in to account the change in value of currency
David Lanceley - on 16 May 2017
In reply to 3leggeddog:

"Standard" millionaire measure is to exclude principle residence value and pension savings. Cuts down the numbers a little....
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wbo - on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor: I know a few - some are ordinary, some are idiots.

Re. Cars - bloke down the road has a job with a 450K salary, plus bonus, and has recently upgraded his Peugot 207 to a (used ) A4

Dave B on 16 May 2017
In reply to David Lanceley:

Perhaps it ought to be on income per annum. Over £1mill.


1
keith-ratcliffe on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I remember an interesting discussion I had with work colleagues about 15 yrs ago when we started a lottery syndicate. The question was how much did you need to win to quit work and live off the interest? If you won £1M and got 5% interest that was £50k and we thought that was quite good. Oh how things have changed; with interest rates so low and costs having risen that capital figure is now more like £50M. And we never won anyway.
Big Ger - on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I'm millionaire, once I convert my cash to Lira that is.
wintertree - on 16 May 2017
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

> with interest rates so low and costs having risen that capital figure is now more like £50M.

Although you hit a crossing point with the "spend the capital" model somewhere around £10M, accounting for modest inflation.

So that's okay then.
Dave the Rave on 16 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Yes. They shit through the same hole.
davidalcock - on 16 May 2017
In reply to Dave B:

That was the definition I was brought up to understand.
BnB - on 17 May 2017
In reply to Dave B:

> Perhaps it ought to be on income per annum. Over £1mill.

That doesn't really make sense to me. Someone earning a salary of £1m "only" takes home about £600k. And if he or she spends it all during the year then they have nowt to show for it. Even as a child, I always understood a millionaire to have >£1m in liquid assets, ie cash, bonds or listed securities.

That'll whittle down the field.
A Longleat Boulderer - on 17 May 2017
In reply to stevieb:
> A friend who went campaigning years ago, in the two party days, had a theory;
>big house, cheap car - labour
>small house, expensive car - conservative

I'd say more likely that big house, cheap car = outrageously wealthy, but not flash. Old money, aristocracy potentially. Small house, expensive car = made a bit of money and want to outshine the neighbours.

By that logic I'd argue both are probably conservative voters.
Post edited at 07:58
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Trangia on 17 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Of course there are many thousands of people who would leave estates of over a £Million if they died, but have little disposable money whilst alive because of their life insurance policies, they are mainly "ordinary" people.
summo on 17 May 2017
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

> By that logic I'd argue both are probably conservative voters.

Or a member of the Labour party shadow cabinet / union leader.
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elliott92 - on 17 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Judging by your campaign of dreary, pessimistic posts, I'd say you need to cheer up mate
The New NickB - on 17 May 2017
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

As stevieb mentions campaigning, it was presumably based on knocking on doors and asking them.
1
stevieb - on 17 May 2017
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

> >big house, cheap car - labour>small house, expensive car - conservativeI'd say more likely that big house, cheap car = outrageously wealthy, but not flash. Old money, aristocracy potentially. Small house, expensive car = made a bit of money and want to outshine the neighbours.

I think by big house he meant 5 bed Victorian semi in Hampstead (filled with books and hummus) rather than a country pile. Nowadays, the 5 bed semi might be worth more though.
Skyfall - on 17 May 2017
In reply to stevieb:

> A friend who went campaigning years ago, in the two party days, had a theory; big house, cheap car - laboursmall house, expensive car - conservative

More like ...

Big house, cheap car = bought house years ago or inherited
Small house,expensive car = young workers with high salary but can't afford current house prices

ads.ukclimbing.com
Skyfall - on 17 May 2017
In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I'm sure there will be a good number of millionaires on this forum who climb and do normal things just like anyone else.
A Longleat Boulderer - on 19 May 2017
In reply to stevieb:
Ah ok.

I run a small business that deals with bespoke stabling. One of our current projects is in rural dorset at a house that sold for 7.5m + land recently to a relatively well known hedge fund owner. He's got houses all over the place though his main house in in Switzerland. He drives the most beaten up old late 90s range rover you've seen and always looks scruffy. He told me yesterday he flies easyjet every week when he goes back to Switzerland. This is more the kind of 'big house' person I was getting at.
Post edited at 07:32
BnB - on 19 May 2017
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

My financial advisor mentioned to me the other day that when he entertains his well-heeled customers at events with a dress code, he always has to have a word before the event about their normally overly casual attire.
timjones - on 19 May 2017
In reply to BnB:

> That doesn't really make sense to me. Someone earning a salary of £1m "only" takes home about £600k. And if he or she spends it all during the year then they have nowt to show for it. Even as a child, I always understood a millionaire to have >£1m in liquid assets, ie cash, bonds or listed securities.That'll whittle down the field.

If they are taking home £600k there is little excuse if they aren't real cash millionaires within 2 years ;)
The Ice Doctor - on 19 May 2017
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

A hedge fund owner, who lives in Switzerland and flies every week. Is that 'ordinary'?

(Chuckles in the background)

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