UKC

For me it's a no-brainer, I'll be voting labour and proudly so.

You?

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Me too.

In reply to Baron Weasel:
If a throw a 6 or a 1 Conservative, 5 or a 2 Labour, 4 or a 3 Lib Dem.

Edit. Actually the 'strong and stable' bollocks might mean I'll refine it to Heads for Labour, Tails for Lib Dem.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I've voted Labour in the past. This time no way with JC and crew running the party. I can never forgive JC for his lack luster support for Remain.

I will not be voting Conservative. Strong and stable? Like hell. I can never forgive Johnson for lying so blatantly over Brexit, and May is getting out of control.

I will not be voting UKIP. Arrogant racists

I will not be voting Green. Not a hope in hell of running a country and standing up to terrorism, Trump or Putin on the world stage

I may vote Lib/Dem but still undecided. They are not going to win, but I would like to see a moderate centre left rival.

In reply to Trangia:

I'm with you on everything you said there. Lib dem for me.

Cheers
Mark

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Lid Dem

Our local Tory MP is likely to win however, better than 10,000 majority last time and the lib dem vote fell by 26%. I fear they will never get above 20 seats again.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I went to the hustings at the college last Thursday. I really liked the labour lad, and I like the Labour manifesto. I really didn't like the Conservative prospective candidate. I thought there was a menace about him. So I will be voting for Tim as the Lib Dems have a chance of keeping the Tories out. Unfortunately, Labour don't.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Where I live (Tim Farron's constituency), the choice is Lib Dem or Tory. So it's a no brainer.

I'm mean come on, seriousy, "strong and stable" - breaking up the Union by mistake?!?! "Economic competence" - leaving the EU by mistake?!?!? And imagine trusting a woman who just says whatever the prevailing opinion polls indicate is the best way to win power? "Remain? - you misheard, what I actually said was hard Brexit. No general election? Wasn't me, I said it was important to secure our negotiating position. And pay for your own social care, what a terrible idea, I said there should be cap." Ludicrous woman.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


Do you have a gender problem?
"Trusting a woman". "Ludicrous woman".
Why not refer to her as prime minister or leader?

In reply to Moley:

What the hell was the point of your comment? If she was a man, I'd a have said man. FFS.

In reply to Ridge:


Message me a postal address for you, and I'll send you one of these:
https://www.thediceshoponline.com/dice/1030/Chessex-Opaque-Green-White-Aver...

In reply to Baron Weasel:

SNP for me - basically New Labour, without the foreign policy madness.

Far from perfect, but the best of the available options.

In reply to skog:

Curses, a fiendish plan by the Liberals and Labour to seize power!

Being remotely serious for a moment, we're in a fairly solid Labour seat, so unsure wether to vote Labour to guarantee the Tories don't get in, or Lib Dem as I think they're about the best option policy wise.

In reply to Ridge:

How safe? I'm sure you can live with yourself if you vote Labour even though your genuine belief was for LD policies. But living with yourself if you let a Tory MP in...?

In reply to Ridge:


That's a proper dilemma! Personally, I'd probably go for the one which I agreed most with on policies, but then I am a bit on the idealistic side.

Just how solid is 'fairly'..?

In reply to skog:


That is certainly the big question!

In reply to skog:


Idealistic is one thing, but my view is that if you completely ignore the "tactical" considerations, you're just voting as if there was PR, but there isn't. The only logical way to vote in FPTP is to consider the likely outcomes in your constituency - otherwise your vote could contribute to the opposite of what you want - which would mean you would genuinely have been better off not voting. I urge anyone who isn't considering the local picture to check and make sure that your vote is a vote for the *outcome* you want, not some bizarre form of internal symbolism, which is all you can achieve by voting as if there was PR, but there isn't.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I don't entirely disagree - but that approach also means you're helping fossilise the existing voting patterns in your area, imagining that things can never change, and in the process making it less likely that they will.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

labour

all the lib dem votes are increasing the chances of the scum staying in power

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Lib Dem.

My local MP does a very good job and I'd like him to keep his seat.

In reply to Trangia:
A vote for the Green Party isn't a vote for them to be in government or for some of their non environmental stuff (eg terrorism). It's a vote to say the environmental issues they raise are important and make other parties more likely to take action on them. (Well that's how I see it anyway)

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I'll be voting labour too. Only chance of a decent econmic policy.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Not casting your vote for Mr FishFinger then??

In reply to Phil1919:

Good choice. Tactical voting to get the tories out is the only (slim) chance to, well, get the tories out..

In reply to mark s:


Depends on where you live. Tory Linder marginals a vote for the lib dems is a vote to get the Tories out

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I agree mostly, but In some constituencies I think you're probably better off with an 'issues' vote. If I was in a seat where the outcome was clear I'd vote green. If it's close I'd vote against the Tories or for labour depending on the situation.

In reply to Ridge:

I'd want to be pretty damn sure it was safe

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I'll almost certainly be voting Liberal Democrat.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

It is just so depressing that it seems that the majority of the electorate is trying to pick the least dreadful option rather than viewing their choice with great optimism or conviction. Perhaps it is always thus, but this time it seems worse.

Diane Abbott as potential Home Secretary........AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGH!
Philip Hammond screwing the NHS......YUUUUUUUUUUUKKKK!
Tim Farron.......nice but dim.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

If she turn out ot be that rubbish, she won't stay long.

In reply to skog:


The trouble is judging who can actually get anywhere near delivering what they promise in a manifesto.

In reply to edwardgrundy:


Totally agree. I used to live in a safe Labour seat which allowed me to vote for policies; knowing that my vote didn't count, it was merely a form of private self-expression. What I think is idiotic is people who vote without consideration of the outcome in their constituency, purely on who they'd like to be running the country in a fantasy world.

In reply to Phil1919:

If she turn out ot be that rubbish, she won't stay long.

She'll be in the cabinet for as long as Corbyn is PM.

In reply to Trangia:

It's quite sad (but understandable in the current circumstances) that you - and most others it seems - can think of a whole lot of very good reasons NOT to vote for parties, but really very few reasons to get excited about voting FOR a party.
Can we have our own Macron in the UK, please?

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I don't rate Corbyn as the leader of the Lanour party and I certainly have no time for Diane Abbot, however, I'll be voting Labour as I always have and always been proud to.

I can't ever understand why anyone would vote Tory except maybe for their own pocket.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


yeah, me too

In reply to john arran:


Was that not that nice T.Blair?

In reply to Baron Weasel:

So based on this thread, labour landslide with SNP and lib Dems providing the bulk of the opposition. Tories blasted to oblivion.

How good were we at predicting the outcome of the EU ref?.....

In reply to john arran:


Is Macron doing anything particualrly 'vote for'? I got the imrpession* that he was a the kind of candidate who you vote for because there's lots of reasons not to vote for the other candidates. Which we could probably do with in the UK, but isn't really very 'vote for'. (*vague impression, I don't know much about French politics)

In reply to edwardgrundy:

I don't know a whole lot about French politics either, but it seems like a rare thing to find a candidate who is genuinely intelligent, economically literate, highly personable (which is a boon to electability), from a socialist background and yet still able to communicate with those on the right without tribal divisions getting in the way even before policy is considered. I loved his Trump greeting last week, too

Tony Blair had a good shot at filling that role, and was pretty good at it for a while, although it seems to me that he may have become intoxicated with his own influence, and started to make some notably poor decisions later in his time in office. Let's hope Macron doesn't follow suit.

In reply to john arran:
The trouble with Bliar was that he thought he was a mission from God.

(and he went to a Scottish public school)

In reply to Trangia:


What's your constituency?

In reply to Trangia:


You might as well spoil your voting slip.

I'm not suggesting that you do this.

I'd suggest you vote Labour. Look at the manifesto. Look at the alternative(s). Look at your community. Look at the state of the country. Look into your heart. Look to creating a better future for all of us.

The alternative is more of the same. Do you want more of the same?

In reply to Lusk:


That kind of delusion is never going to end well, is it?

In reply to john arran:

Yes, can see that's probably a vote for. The hand shake off was pretty good. Now I think about it, I was also quite impressed by his speaking honestly to striking factory workers (only other thing I've seen of him). Seemed brave and honest. Although I don't agree with what he said which was pretty much jobs will be lost to globalisation and there's nothing we can do about it. A bit too pessimistic I think.

Pretty sure Blair's best talent is seeming clever than he actually.

For for more trump fun - check out his attempt to hold hands with the pope. Little pinky caress at the start is super creepy youtube.com/watch?v=gVGrZb5gCbE&

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Hastings and Rye

In reply to Morty:


I don't believe Labour under Corbyn can deliver. I really can't stand the man, nor do I trust him and his shadow cabinet, so there is no way I will vote for Labour under him.

No, I am swaying towards Lib Dem. I don't think the fact they are very unlikely to get in is a reason for not voting for them. If I look at my heart, their manifesto is by far the best thought out.

In reply to Trangia:


I suppose that's your answer then. It's a shame that you are put off by the leader of the Labour party. What is it that you don't fancy?

In reply to Morty:


In a word, he is weak, very weak, and has shown very poor judgement in the choice of some of his shadow cabinet. In particular Dianne Abbott.

He is not a leader, but can't see it.

In reply to Trangia:


Thanks.

That seat's a two-way battle between the Conservatives and Labour - any other vote is probably 'wasted' under FPTP - and is nominally marginal. So you have a vote which could really count.

Good luck!

In reply to Rob Parsons:
Oh, I'm very aware of this, but I can't bring myself to vote for either of the two "main" contenders. It may be a wasted vote so far as the upcoming election is concerned, but I hope that if enough voters feel like me it will help boost the LibDems for the future. I'd rather send that message than not vote at all.

Is it right morally to vote for parties you have no faith in?

In reply to Trangia:

After the way that he has been continually vilified in the press, yet still managed to close the gap on May, I think this is very unfair.


edit.

Not my dislike on your previous post. I wish they would get rid of the button!

In reply to Trangia:


I think it clearly can be morally right. Taking an extreme example. If the two main parties were Corbyn and the BNP, and you were in a BNP- Labour marginal I expect you'd agree it was morally right to vote Labour. Obviously a totally personal but if you think one is considerably worse than the other in terms of how they will impact peoples lives then the moral thing to do is to vote to keep that one out (assuming your constituency is marginal for one or other). A lot of human misery can be caused by governments.

In reply to Morty:


I was very unimpressed by his performances in PMQ. Yes, he can made rousing pre-prepared speeches to the faithful , but he can't think quickly on his feet once he comes under pressure and goes off the script. This isn't good in a leader,

But my main objection to him is, as I said above, I blame him (and Johnson!) for the disastrous Brexit result. Labour supported Remain and Corbyn had it in his power to influence and persuade millions of wavering working class people to vote Remain, but he failed to do this. His support was very lack lustre. As a Remainer, I can't forgive him for this.

But there one thing we can agree on.

The bloody dislike button !

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Labour. Always have. Unless I somehow lose a social conscience then I always will.

In reply to Trangia:


Agreed. I was disappointed too.

I can see past this. I can also see past other points I disagree with as they are insignificant in contrast to another Tory government.

>But there one thing we can agree on.The bloody dislike button !

Too right.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

So we either get to vote for a maniac set on dismantling the welfare state and bringing about a hard brexit or a bunch of dreamers who think they can spend their way to utopia or, thirdly, throw our vote away on the sensible middle ground (that no-one seems to be interested in). Things aren't looking great to be honest.

In reply to edwardgrundy:

Ideally I'd like to vote to keep both Labour (under Corbyn) and Conservatives out, but I can't bring myself for either either - wow! a double either . But as I've said I can vote for LiDem because I agree with a lot of their manifesto.

Who know's if enough local folk think this way, things may change.

In reply to Trangia:

For either? Like for either either? (obscure, please ignore if you don't get it)

If you don't think one of the two will cause significantly more misery than the other, then I'd say you're on firm moral ground. If you do believe that one will be significantly worse, I think* it would be self indulgent and wrong not to vote on that basis because you find dong so distasteful. In that circumstance, you should have a word, hold your nose and bring yourself to do it.

*Just what I think though! Probably a bit moral absolutist - in reality a single vote is vanishingly unlikley to make a difference to anything.... then again if everyone thought that way.. head now hurts... vote labour... probably... or maybe not... no do it

In reply to Baron Weasel:
Can't vote Tory as my local candidate, Derek Thomas, is pro-Fox hunting, could vote for Limp Dems, but Andrew George blotted his copy book too much with expenses claims*.

Labour are beyond the pale.

I may vote Green or Mebyon Kernow rather than not vote.

Oh bugger, they ain't running.

May give it up as a bad job...


*http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5315055/MPs-expense...

In reply to Baron Weasel:
Labour. Not so much "will be" as "already have" as I have a postal vote.

Rejected our local Lib Dem candidate as I refuse to vote for a candidate whose address is not in my constituency (Wokingham, for the MK South ward), and I also dislike the practice of "cloaking" the address on the ballot paper. I do strongly believe that you have to live in a constituency in order to have a proper understanding of local issues in order to be, as the FPTP system dictates, my local representative.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

As far as I can tell, so far, out of those who have said they will definitely vote for a party, the scores on the doors are;

7 Labour
6 Lib Dems
1 SNP
0 Tory

We can all have a jolly good chuckle the next time someone dares suggest that UKC is a representative sample

In reply to Big Ger:

Of course this thread isn't necessarily representative of UKC!

I'm in what was a Labour / UKIP marginal, but is probably more likely to be a Labour / Tory marginal. Lib Dems are probably most reflective of my political views at the moment, although no party really reflects them that well. I'll happily vote Labour to keep the Tories out and because I know the Labour candidate / sitting MP quite well and like her.

In reply to Big Ger:

Thanks for the add-up!

Interesting that no one has 'confessed' to being a conservatory yet...

In reply to Big Ger:

Not sure this is a representative sample of UKC. A lot of Tory commentors silent. It looks like Labour catching up has stopped now, so I expect they'll be back along shortly. Or maybe not the ones who actually bought the Theresa May great leader nonsense, they might wait a little longer.

In reply to edwardgrundy:

Who do you consider the "Tory commentors" who haven't commented?

In reply to edwardgrundy:

Listening to the broadcast media over the last 2 weeks you've sensed a not unreasonable editorial shift away from the Tory's self destructive manifesto and a less justifiable indulgence of Labour's fairytale economics. Combine that with the social media bubble of UKC and my FB feed which is overwhelmed by the new messiah and you'd sense Labour was heading for victory.

However, there's a similar thread on another forum I frequent, for a different male-dominated community of hobbyists. The count there, on the app-based interface which facilitates the counting of votes and creation of polls (are you listening Alan?) is 72% Con, 15% Lab, 13% Other. That's from about 100 responses, so a similar sample size to the regulars on here.

Then I heard a R4 feature on Thanet where Farage stood last in the last election and the picture was equally blue.

So I guess the sensible thing to do is close the thread before anyone takes the numbers seriously.

In reply to Baron Weasel:


Not interesting at all considering you set the tone for this thread in your opening statement, which was reinforced by references to "maniac" and "scum" in relation to the current government by others, and that tone continued by your use of the word "confessed" in the above. I assume "conservatory" is a typo, and you meant conservative, rather than some further insult, but if not I'd be happy to expand my vocabulary beyond the word's use for a glass structure or educational establishment.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Looking at the dislikes there are a lot of rich people on here or people who want to see foxes being chased to thier death again.

In reply to Baron Weasel:


I'll go with "it is none of your business"

In reply to Baron Weasel:

With my postal vote I'm going lib dem. The local Tory will win easily and he is a decent bloke who puts the effort in locally. But if sees the lib dems as rivals for his seat should he slacken, then he'll be kept on his toes. Plus lib dems have some better ideas on taxation, it's only their eu stance I dislike and everyone should compromise a little!

In reply to mark s:


Or that want to make towers out of Ivory.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I've always voted lib dem.
However I think May et al are far more capable than labour.
Ideally a coalition.

In reply to Deadeye:


I agree, pity about their policies

In reply to skog:


I really don't mind the dislikes, it's good to have disagreement - in fact, I'd worry if I wasn't getting dislikes from some of the people on here.

But I can't tell what they're for, this time!

Voting SNP? Thinking the SNP are quite like New Labour? Thinking New Labour's foreign policy went insane? Saying the SNP aren't perfect? Something else?

Anyone care to expand?

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I'll be voting tory, did last time, voted Labour everytime prior to that, never again. Its interesting how everyone on social media seems to be voting labour, so it'll be a landslide then. lol.

In reply to skog:

pretty sure it will be voting snp

In reply to timjones:

This is a bit old, but you might enjoy it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/im-a-proud-tory-but-with-the-le...

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Labour, LD or Green for me.

No chance of keeping the Tories out here though.

I think I'll go Labour.

In reply to Big Ger:

Wouldn't like to name names. A couple are along now though and one of them isn't even voting Tory! So I guess that shows me

In reply to BnB:
I think you're take on it is probably right. Except about the danger of this thread being taken seriously!

Intrgued by this other hobby. Are you a fox hunter?

In reply to edwardgrundy:


Sports cars (see the Pub)

In reply to BnB:

Makes sense!

In reply to Baron Weasel:


I'm more of an orangery.

In reply to Trangia:


I may vote Lib/Dem but still undecided. They are not going to win, but I would like to see a moderate centre left rival.

Rival to what? Another Tory government?

youtube.com/watch?v=EWSqkQjdlYo&

Time to roll up them sleeves and get your hands dirty, or spend another five years basking in the glory of aesthetics and correct moral choices about political 'feelings'

D

In reply to summo:

As an extra my postal vote stuff arrived today. The lib dem(york) and the Labour (Newcastle) candidates don't even live in constituency (richmondshire). No wonder it's a Tory safe seat. Int dales, being local is everything.

In reply to edwardgrundy:


Sorry to disappoint. Just because i think Corbyn, abbot etc are useless, doesn't make me a Tory.

In reply to BnB:

Both manifestos are complete fairytales.
This has been pointed out by all the experts including our own IFS.

But then not really surprised, as it seems most of the political discourse in the UK and the US is now totally disconnected from truth and reality.

In reply to summo:

Not disappointed at all! One less vote for the Tories and if you put aside their time coalition, I quite like the libdems.

In reply to RomTheBear:

I'm not sure complete fairy tale is fair on labour. From Looking at ifs stuff summary briefly...

1. Tax rises proposed would not just hit the rich. This is true, but they would make tax more progressive, and I've not seen Labour's deny this.

2. Ifs seem to have ignored boost to growth from I creased spending/fiscal rule. People disagree on this but the IFS aren't experts on it - not macroeconomists.

3. Ifs assume increased corporation tax and workers rights will reduce productivity (all other things equal). This is a pretty strong assumption, there's plenty of higher tax, more rights countries that are more productive than us.

4. Ifs say labour tax raising assumptions optimistic. Sure they are, but what parties aren't. (Possibly the libdems)

Basically, labour want a bigger state and more progressive tax. I'm sure they'd do this if in power. If you wan that, vote for them

In reply to BnB:

Ps which pub thread?

In reply to edwardgrundy:

So at a time when Brexit will be negotiated we basically say to big corporations - you are not welcome here- as corporation tax is going to rise to 26%. I think that is pretty poor , especially for all those who work in big corporations. You are also actively encouraging them to relocate to the EU. Really clever that.

I suspect that at the first whiff of any major company relocating out of the uk due to the 26% rate , any labour govtvwould get the message and reduce the headline rate.

Meanwhile any 100% uk domciled business would just have to grin and bear it.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

In the Glasgow Central constituency, SNP was the incumbent with 52% of the vote in 2015. Next closest was Labour at 33%, so they'll be getting my vote this time round. Basically, it's the party with the best chance of beating the SNP who gets my tick! For the record, SNP gained 35% and Labour lost 19% in the last election, so this time, who knows. A few good friends who voted SNP last time and also voted for Independence in the 2014 referendum have surprised me by saying they aren't voting SNP this time, so there is some hope.

If it were all a lot closer, I'd vote LibDem, but here they have no chance. (1.6% in 2015, which was down 15% from 2010.)

In reply to edwardgrundy:


'Are elections decided by the most stupid people in society?'

In reply to neilh:

In reply to neilh:


I agree on the likelihood of a U-turn, although I wonder if Labour would compound the inequality by doing a sweetheart deal with big business while leaving SMEs like yours paying the top rate. How do you feel about your proposed tax rate of 64%, Neil?

I wonder how many SMEs would investigate alternative income strategies? Even just delaying income until Labour is booted out? Or, worse still, simply quit bothering with that exhausting job creation? Maybe it's my age but most of my entrepreneurial peers are perfectly able and willing to shut down and retire today. I'm all for combating inequality but Labour's manifesto feels more like an indiscriminate attack on job creation than a targeted assault on casino finance. It won't end well for the workers, consumer prices or general taxation.

In reply to Dauphin:

Revival - typo!

In reply to neilh:

I don't think 26% is that high is it?

In reply to Trangia:

Tory race to the bottom economic policies will definitely achieve a centre left revival about thirty years following the riots, revolution, lynchings.

Fill yer boots.

D

In reply to BnB:

I'm not sure evidence really supports your assumptions about the link between tax, jobs, growth etc.

Do you think any/many of your friends will close because of the increased tax on their profits and income (assuming they pay top rate)?

In reply to neilh:
What is Corperatuon Tax in the rest of Europe Neil?

What is it in the US?

I'm never sure if I should use a question mark when I know the answer.

In reply to edwardgrundy:


It is relative to Ireland (and others). The historical level less so. But this is today. And last summer we gave every corporation in the UK a good reason to relocate their HQ. How about two more reasons?

You see it isn't just CT. Decision makers are facing a drop in dividends of 7% from that rise, but also an increase in income tax of another 7%. That's a pair of powerful motivators (or de-motivators) in a mobile, multinational business world. All this while Paris and Frankfurt cut new tax exemptions for fleeing UK enterprises.

In reply to Baron Weasel: I will decide on basis of tonight's to debate. Anyone else watching?

In reply to BnB:

I do indeed see that it's not just CT that might motivate companies to relocate. Neil seemed particularly outraged by 26percent ct hence the question. (It's fairly normal for a large and rich economy.)

I also see brexit might see some buisiness relocate. Question is for how many overall tax in gb as compared to overall tax elsewhere will make the difference between staying and going? Or coming here/going elsewhere?

My guess is not many and brexit itself will be a more decisive factor...

Tax war with the continent perhaps more likely under tories..

In reply to edwardgrundy:
For many big companies it's not so much about relocating manufacturing plants but about using internal accounting to choose which countries in which to declare profits. I don't believe that the proposed increase in corporation tax
will give the returns that Labour expect, and therefore the threshold for income tax hike will need to be lower. If I pay more tax than so be it. I'm much more concerned about impact of higher corporation tax on my already meagre money purchase pension pot

In reply to kevin stephens:

Yes, expect their tax calculations are a bit optimistic.

I don't think CT will make that much difference to your pension. Brexit will make bigger one. Either way it's the same thing - paying a bit more tax although indirectly via less pension. Maybe you think this makes it so much more tax that you do mind, which would be fair enough, but it's no different in principle than paying more through income tax.

In reply to edwardgrundy:

If I was voting in England I'd definitely vote for them, not by conviction, but by default, as the conservative party, as it is, is a threat to our democracy.

In reply to RomTheBear:

SnP?

In reply to edwardgrundy:

At this point, the situation is critical enough that it warrants voting tactically for any party (other than ukip) in a position to win against the conservatives.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Latest totals of party votes from people who have declared who they will vote for;

7 Labour
9 Lib Dems
1 SNP
1 Conservative.

UKC still tracking the national trends closely.....

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I'm voting Cthulhu. Why vote for the lesser evil?

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Not really, brexit is likely to mean none of them will be able to implement exactly what they've offered funded in the way they have claimed but at least the manifestos each set out a distinct direction of travel. IMO that's the best you can really hope for in a time of uncertainty.

Edit: I'll be pleased to be voting Labour this time round
jk

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Labour, not that it will make much difference in my constituency. Unless the numbties protesting the local hospital closure can finally put two and two together an realise it's the Tories who are closing it!!

I don't see how anyone could vote Tory, considering you have Gove, May and Boris all f*cking liars, all back stabbing bastards (We're all in it together remember)

In reply to Big Ger:


Who said we SHOULD be tracking trends??


Is that how you vote, on who's topping the trends? WTF!

In reply to neilh:

Yes they could all relocate to Germany, where the tax is much less. Oh! wait a minute around about 30%, blast!!

There's always France, bollocks!!, 33%

Knackers to it, America, 38%. Might as well stay put then.

Palestine has 15% maybe that might make a good option

It's not saying your not welcome is it? It's saying you have to pay your way, if we'd had some half decent MPs in the first place there wouldn't be so much tax evasion and we'd be in a better position than we are now.

In reply to krikoman:
Eire is a common alternative.Holland has some very dubious tactics to get the same result.

One of the lessons the Tories learnt was that companys relocated if the tax rate was too high.They use to have it at a higher rate and lost tax as a result. When it dropped to its current levels those companies moved back.

Of course this is all very annoying if like me you are 100% uk based.You have no alternative but to stay here.

Banging up the tax rate favours those companies as they have alternatives which others do not have. So it is not really very equitable for those of us here.

Of course companies adjust their practices to pay less tax. One of the ways is to invest less in new equipment/.To counteract that govts then usually incentivise by allowances- so getting you back to the low rate where you started in the first place.Or they increase r and d credits.Again you get back to the low rate.

And in the USA, all companies do is park the money off shore and not bring it back.Trump is trying to sort this out. It is reckoned there is $3 trillion sat off shore becuase of the 40% rate.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I live in Pudsey, which is a fairly closely contested seat. My preference would be to vote Lib Dem but I'll be voting Labour next week as they are the best chance of unseating the local Tory MP and that's a higher priority to me at the moment.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Don't know - which probably makes me one of the "stupid people" according to another thread.
We are Plaid Cymru here and I don't see myself as Plaid. I certainly wouldn't vote labour (disgracefully closing our rural schools) and a leader I dread becoming a prime minister.

Last election we had a new conservative candidate standing, a person I and many had a lot of time for and he made significant inroads into the Plaid majority, he would have my vote 100%, except, he is no longer a candidate (rumours of a disagreement or sacking or something) from the tory party. To be replaced by a Tory candidate with a London address - relevance to mid Wales?

Lib Dems, voted for them previously (different constituency) where they were strong and meaningful with a good candidate, not here and now.

Still undecided.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Labour, there is an outside chance of gettig the Tory MP unseated and the new Labour candidate is a genuinely good person so i get to vote both nationally and locally... not a good chance but an outside one.

We have posters in window and a placard to go up as of today.

However much id like it to be a push for power change i do feel nationally it's about limiting the tory majority this time to reduce the chance of them messing up the nhs, foreign policy and social care beyond recovery in the next term

In reply to neilh:

So Ireland seems a good choice, for real activities. This is one of the things the EU should get hold of and sort out once and for all.

https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/tax-r...

In reply to Trangia:


What do you mean standing up to terrorism?

Cozying up to Saudi Arabia?

In reply to krikoman:

Switzerland has a lower tax rate than the uk .

The issue is complicated as I am sure you know.

In reply to Baron Weasel:
Conservative.

In reply to neilh:


24.41% according to the link, so not less yet and is it worth relocating for 0.59% obviously for some companies it might be.

I'd rather they closed to evasion / avoidance loops and see where we are after that.

If the ordinary bloke on the street knows "we are all in it together" then it's easier to swallow your own contribution. It when you can afford not to pay tax, it becomes an issue.

In reply to krikoman:


No one, I was being sarcastic, do keep up.



You're silly aren't you? I gave how I would be voting, and my reasoning, above.

In reply to krikoman:


Let's not forget, if the <s>German government</s>, sorry, the EU play hardball with us, then it woudl not be difficult for May to further cut our rate.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Conservative.

In reply to Baron Weasel:


Conservative.

In reply to krikoman:

What happens in the real world is that businesses adjust their behaviour and avoid the higher rates.Its quite easy and very legal to do this.

As I said - it is one of the lessons that the Tories and The Treasury have learnt- it has also been spelt out by the IFS.

So let me get this right you would like to close down what you classify as avoidance loop holes - does this for example research and development plus capital allowances.I am intrigued, please explain.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Just filled in my postal vote. It's SNP for me.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Ive floated all over the shop and really cant decide.

Ill probably decide as I pick up my short pencil, such is the shite that we are presented with.

In reply to Deadeye:

I'm quite surprised at this. I know Labour are short on experience but who are the capable Tories? Not May with her inability to face the public and her over-dependence on sloganising surely? And certainly not David Davis, who's been doing the 'hard' graft on Brexit and thinks it's impressive that he has over a hundred pages of detail to show for nearly a year's work. Boris Johnson? Liam Fox? Amber Rudd? I really am struggling to think of anyone vaguely competent in the current team!

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I'm in the position of having to vote for the "least worst" scenario.

I'm in a solid Tory seat with a 43% majority in 2015, though, so probably won't make much difference who I vote for.

I couldn't possibly vote Labour - given Corbyn and Abbott and their past actions and future policies.

Tim Farron always strikes me as being out of his depth and looks like a sixth former dropped in a suit and thrust into the limelight. Oddly, they would probably have been my first choice if Clegg was still at the helm, because he had the experience.

I don't like current Tory policies on a lot of things, either - especially as it's their (Cameron's) fault we're in the mess we are in anyway.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Yes, I think this is a good summary of the options

In reply to Bob Kemp:

If Andy Burnham ( instead of the awful DA)was in JC's team and a few other Blair courtiers then I would run with Labour. I look at JC, DA, John McD and Thornberry and I think its just plain bad for a team to be so dominated by an Islington set.

In reply to neilh:
I can understand your misgivings, but there are also people like Keir Starmer around who at least appear competent.

In reply to Bob Kemp:

I agree..except he is another good dam lawyer.

When people like AB have bailed out, to me it indicates that JC is just not good enough to hold together a team that needs to be balanced.

In reply to BnB:


The best outcome for this election at this point would be a hung parliament.

That may well force any government to compromise and come up with evidence-based policy, instead of giving a blank cheque to this authoritarian, delusional, narrow minded PM and her incompetent government.

Worst case scenario, we'll have an ineffective government that won't be able to do much, but nothing happening would still be better than the Tories and Labour plans.

Interesting tactical voting initiative on here : https://bestforbritain.org/

In reply to neilh:


Meanwhile in the Tory camp, what do you have? Ask yourself who's furthest away from the man on the street. A bloke who has an allotment or a woman married to a hedge fund manager?

This is one of the strangest posts you written.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Is there an election coming up? Yawn....

In reply to krikoman:

Both are pretty strange

I am not bothered about the man( or woman) on the street argument. As MP's etc they are both far removed from what most people experience.

In reply to krikoman:


Do you normally define a woman primarily by who she is married to?

In reply to TobyA:

It depends, Melania Trump, then yes.

It wasn't primarily defining her, please don't put words in my mouth (or anything else for that matter), I was pointing out their opportunities to interact with and therefore, relate to the ordinary man in the street.

In reply to krikoman:
I don't disagree with your sentiment. However, it is important to remember that leading a nation isn't just about being able to relate to the 'man on the street'.

Unfortunately, whoever our leader ends up being they will also need to deal with and relate to (in the understanding sense) the likes of Trump, Putin, Xi etc; interactions that won't be made any easier by owning an allotment.

In reply to radddogg:


Haven't you noticed with all the crap coming through your letterbox?
I've just chucked out two carrier bags full of the stuff.

In reply to plyometrics:

I'm not sure they are made any worse for it either.

Surely a more fully rounded appreciation of the electorate is preferable to a remote notion.

I'd very much like our leader to understand what it's like to be an ordinary bloke, and if that's just the merest insight gained by sharing a patch of land with some bloke, then that's better than nowt.

It's not the be all and end all but one doesn't exclude the other, there are levels of knowledge and appreciation.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Campaigning and voting for Liberal Democrats, but good luck to the SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens and Labour where we don't have a chance. Tories have lost any respect I might have had for them. Like the Republicans in the USA they put party before country especially as they have unscrupulously stolen all UKIP's stinking clothes.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Latest running total of declared votes;

11 Labour

10 Lib Dems

4 Conservative.

2 SNP

1 Cthulhu

Looks like we'll be hoisting the red flag over Downing street soon.

youtube.com/watch?v=1xJoWzPZGjY&

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Labour.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Labour.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Green for the first time ever (we have no lib-dem as they'd the greens've done a deal between here and Harrogate). Solidly tory constituency (Skipton and Ripon) so personally symbolic more than anything!

In reply to Big Ger:


Maybe this just demonstrates the demographic of people who sit on their arses on social media forum sites all day ?

In reply to GrahamD:

Very probably.

In reply to Lusk:


You must be in a marginal seat. I've had two flyers.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

That's it then, voted and going in the post now (postal vote obviously).

I'm not saying who I decided to vote for .......... but it isn't Neil Hamilton, one of our choices!

In reply to Big Ger:

Mark me down for Cthulhu.

Seriously? Probably green. A solid SNP seat (55% of the vote in 2015) so I can indulge a fantasy.

Oops I can't. No candidate. Probably Lib Dem.

If someone put forward a nice border collie...

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I'll be voting Conservative, my constituency has a Labour MP who won with 5000+ votes more than the Conservatives last time. However UKIP got 7000 votes so depending how that splits and how big the labour losses are the seat is winnable.

In reply to Baron Weasel:
Well I just voted (postal vote) Labour, which may come as a surprise to some.

My reasoning? Three candidates, I do not believe in not voting as a protest is effective

The Tory, I wrote to and asked if he would vote for a return of fox hunting. He waffled, and blustered, but basically said he would do what the party told him to do, so f*ck him.

The Lib Dem, supports another ballot on Brexit, is a fervent Cornish nationalist, and was caught in the expenses scandal, so he's out.

The only other choice was Labour, so he got the X. (I had to hold my nose.)

Mind you, there's as much chance of me being voted the next Miss World as there is of Labour winning that seat.

In reply to GrahamD:


Plus, any pro-tory activity on social media gets hammered by shouty Labour voters so maybe like last time the silent majority will win.

In reply to Trangia:

If Labour don't win, or at least gain enough ground to resist the Tories passing legislation, you can kiss good by to the NHS.

Corbyn might have been lacklustre in supporting Remain - but it's a position that is both right and strategic. The first because being in the EU has hardly encouraged an community based on equality and solidarity; the second because, being anti-Brexit now would not be tenable - as it is, the Tories are winning solely on being the party of Brexit. It's better not to give them more ammo.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Despite misgivings about some of the leadership, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry in particular, the Labour manifesto is refreshing and pretty daring in the context of the centre/centre-right hegemony of late. I'll be voting for the wonderfully-named Thangam Debbonaire.

In reply to C Witter:

Not even Labour are going to provide the money that the NHS has specified that it needs to meet the demands of the Uk over the next few years.It still falls short.

Take off your rose tinted glasses.

In reply to Big Ger:

Class.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

I've already voted for Labour. The 'business as usual' model we've had to endure for decades frightens me when I think of my kids' future. It's time for a moderately radical change.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Lib Dem, with a massive sense of futility (especially since my local candidate looks about 15).

In reply to C Witter:


You must be one of the "faithful" because few others are taken in by Corbyn's money tree.

In reply to Big Ger:


Blimey!
I've just got back from spending all day in A&E after falling off my chair and cracking my head open on the hearth when I read that this morning.

In reply to Trangia:
On the contrary, it's you who've been taken in with the myth of the idiots, that austerity is a necessity and that in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, with the most efficient and cost-effective health service in the world, we cannot afford to keep the NHS functioning well - and even improve it.

Unless you're in the top 5% of earners, the choice is plain: do you want the Tories to keep treating you as a shit-eating serf, and expecting you to be thankful for this great opportunity - or do you want to restore your dignity?

If the later, the only way to vote is Labour - unless you happen to be in that small minority of people who live in a seat that the Greens might actually win.

As for the Lib Dems, they are opportunists who're happy to pretend they can do the impossible and make Brexit go away, whilst plotting to jump into bed with whoever will give them the most power. I'm glad I don't live somewhere were it's a run-off between them and the Tories, as I'm not sure I could vote for them.

FYI, I'm far from part of the Labour faithful - I told myself I'd never vote for them again. But, this is something new and progressive being born against the backdrop of absolute barbarity - increasing racism and bigotry, the destruction of public services and resources that people rely on, new and authoritarian extensions of state powers, the cyncial exploitation of national tragedies and social divisions, and an economy deliberately structured to produce and deepen social inequalities. In this context, the "world-weary" responses of the self-professedly "informed" strike me as completely missing the point.

In reply to C Witter:

Haven't ever voted before, now voting Labour. Not quite left wing enough for me, but it's a start.

In reply to Baron Weasel:

Lakeland Liberation Party.

Main policies include: Compulsory bright clothing on the hill for ease of rescue.
Fines/prison sentences/death penalty for flip flops or selfie sticks within the national park.
Using 'climb' and 'solo' instead of 'ramble' and 'lonely hill walk'.
Severe punishment for small spelling/grammatical errors (Scarfel, Helvelin, Mount anything)
Free road tax for Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi (estate) drivers.

In reply to Baron Weasel:
I was born in England and now live in Scotland but have always considered myself British. So I voted No to Independence in 2014. My children & grandchildren live in England so I don't want to live in a different country to them. I think that being part of Europe is valuable so I voted Remain. I am thus now isolated from any representation that gives me what I feel is relevant to our society - choosing who to vote for is almost irrelevant. Yet I believe in the process of democracy and will vote but have still to decide which party can best serve my interests. I think there are many like me who feel to be in a political vacuum about this election.

In reply to neilh:


Thanks.

In reply to Lusk:


LOL!! Thanks for the chuckle.

I'm sure it would come as a surprise to someone who slavishly follows a party line, (not saying you are one,) rather than vote on policy or where your heart and head inclines you to vote, that others may do this.

I've voted for Labour more times than for any other party.

In reply to Trangia:

There is a money tree, the quantitative easing variety. Perhaps it could be used for the benefit of the many not the few?

"According to Credit Suisse‘s Global Wealth Report, since 2008 personal wealth has grown at the fastest rate ever recorded. In Britain, the record rises in personal wealth have been accentuated by the £375 billion of quantitative easing authorised by the government in the wake of the Financial Crisis, and the £60 billion announced to shore up the markets after the Brexit vote. The initial wave of quantitative easing resulted in a huge increase in asset values for the top 5 per cent of households. So, since the crash the very wealthy have benefited enormously, and government money has helped them to do so. At the same time, wages have declined. Since 2008, most working people have seen their earnings shrink by around 10 per cent in real terms."

Source - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/robin-bunce/election-2017-winners-and_b_160...

In reply to Big Ger:

I wouldn't say I'm a slave to the party line, but I'm working my through me old man's library of his Left Book Club tomes. Good reading

Plus, you'd have to inflict major bodily harm to make me vote Con. Con being the operative word, I'm not falling for scraps off the top table.

In reply to Lusk:

As I have always said, and as my current vote reflects, I'd soak my testicles in petrol, set them alight, and beat the flames out with a brick hammer, before I'd vote for someone who supports fox hunting.

In reply to Trangia:


I suspect a fair few of the current cabinet (or their families ) have their very own personal 'magic money trees' planted in the bahamas, panama or some other off shore tax haven - I mean money tree nursery.