UKC

Apologies if this has been discussed recently, but I heard that Wild Country no longer offer a re-slinging service. What are people doing to re-sling cams now? Using cord? Any other views?

In reply to airborne
just replaced old slings with cord, untested so would be interested in views

In reply to JJ Krammerhead III:

Accessory cord and a double fishermans. After all, we used to sling hexes that way, and hardly anyone died.

Alternatively, as written up by Chris "Death Products" Tan:
http://www.kakibusok.plus.com/Equipment/ReslingCams/Resling.htm

In reply to Wingnut:

very true! (just rethreaded my old hexes too). Just eyeballing the tight angle on the cord running through the friends but the angles on the double fisherman's a bit tight too. V useful link thanks!

In reply to airborne:

Thinking of doing mine soon and Needle sports sell this cord
http://www.needlesports.com/4331/products/marlow-5-5mm-dyneema-cord-x-0-75-...

Most of them need trigger wires doing too which looks like its going to be fiddly

In reply to airborne:

Bowline on a bight (threaded), allows you to use thin, sewn dyneema slings.

In the attached picture

http://www.outdoorfreunde.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/vbild_500/3/Ge...

you could imagine threading the bight running from left to right on top through the eye of your cam, then wrapping the long end of your sling around the protruding bight before threading it through and dressing the knot. Much more obvious from the picture...

CB

In reply to cb294:
>you could imagine threading the bight running from left to right on top through the eye of your cam, then wrapping the long end of your sling around the protruding bight before threading it through and dressing the knot. <

Don't know if I follow this method, but it sounds distinctly dangerous to me.

In reply to airborne:
I had this same question recently. You are correct that Wild Country don't do reslinging as according to them they don't own the sewing machines any more (I heard somewhere that DMM make WC cams now, so I phoned them but the guy I spoke to didn't know what they did or didn't make). Anyway, once I had established that nobody in the UK would put new sewn slings on them I sent them to Mountain Tools in the USA:

http://www.mtntools.com/

The actual cost of reslinging wasn't too bad and I'm pleased with the work -- they even used the original sling colours. Luckily I travel to the USA frequently so was able to deal with all the postage and packing there, not sure what it would be like from the UK. It might be more cost effective to buy new cams if you don't want to put cord on them. I think it would also be possible to larksfoot a thin dyneema sling through the hole on a Friend in such a way that the sling doesn't press on itself when loaded.

Long term, I probably won't buy Wild Country cams again. DMM and Black Diamond will both resling their cams for a fee if you send them back.

In reply to airborne:

This is a ridiculous situation, why is it not possible for a third party to re-sling cams/hexes with a guarantee limited to the part that they repair?
If you had your brakes repaired at a garage and then had a massive crash when the steering rack failed would you expect any redress from the garage that fixed the brakes? No, of course you wouldn't and the garage would have no case to answer. So if a cam failed for some reason after the sling was repaired but the sling didn't fail what's the problem with the sling repair?
I the end, the legislation that it there to supposedly protect us is more likely to lead to us being exposed to more risk because people will keep using old gear with old and potentially dodgy slings because they don't want to fork out hundreds of pounds for a new rack of cams.

In reply to gethin_allen:


What's the detailed reason (i.e. the piece of legislation) which means that that *isn't* possible? (And apologies if that has been answered before - I *am* getting a sense of deja vu here.)

I notice that DMM offer a reslinging service for their gear (see http://dmmclimbing.com/about/servicing-repairs/ ) so I guess WC just don't want the equivalent business (or maybe no longer have sufficient local manufacturing facilities to make such a service viable? I don't know ...)

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Planned obsolescence..... by not reslinging camming devices and encouraging people to replace perfectly good gear with shiny new stuff.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

I don't really know but before WC decided to stop the service they specified that by law they could only repair their own gear that was less that 10 years old.

Looking at the T+Cs from the DMM reslinging service it could be this:-
"The Supplier warrants that on delivery, and for a period of [12] months from the date of delivery (Warranty Period), the Goods shall:

Conform in all material respects with their description and any applicable Specification;"

At which point you need to know the definition of "the goods", does it cover the whole device not just the sling they add?

In reply to gethin_allen:

The whole unit including sling is one item certified under the directive. Repairs may only be made by the manufacturer or their agent and the item re-certified.

In reply to Gustavo:

Hmmm, not impressed. I bought the new WC friends as the shop told me WC would shortly be starting a reslinging service. Had I realised that was not the case I'd have just gone for BD camalots again.

In reply to jim jones:

Why? You end up with an unbroken, sewn sling connected to your cam unit with an established tie in knot. Even better than the tie in situation, actually, because the knot is secured by a loop rather than the rethreaded end of the rope, and thus cannot work loose unless the material rips.

There are instructional videos out there that explain better how to tie this knot, but unfortunately I could not find them again with a quick google.

CB

In reply to cb294:

Hi,

Interesting, not an approach I had come across before, though I guess the downside is knotting the sling will weaken it. So if using a sewn sling it would be stronger to simply thread through the cam and clip both ends into the racking karabiner.

Wayne

In reply to airborne:

I re-slung mine on thin (I found 6mm, 8mm is more common and will fit most cams) sewn tape slings, either doubled with both loops clipped for short slings or sort of larksfooted (sling only ever actually runs over the metalwork, not itself) to the stem when longer slings are needed. You may need to knock down some sharp edges as the sling sits on part of the stem it was never meant to and it does impose some bending loads the stem wasn't designed for. Worked for me and I haven't died yet.

edit: The issue if there is one with bowline on the bight mentioned above is the wear occurs in the same places each time, the sling can't be turned without upicking and loosening the knot. Cams aren't especially strong so slightly weakened slings are no big deal. All in all it seems a reasonable solution to me.
jk

In reply to jimtitt:


Thanks.

Do you think that precludes a good quality repair to the sling being made by a third party? I can see that the entire item wouldn't have recertified in that case - but then neither do we routinely recertify old pieces of equipment which are still in use.

Disregarding any final recertification (or not), which piece of legislation says that 'repairs may only be made by the manufacturer'?

In reply to jkarran:
My larger cams are rated at 14kn, close to the breaking strain of a new but knotted dynema sling. Herein is the problem, a knotted sling is probably ok, as is cord, an unknotted sling would likely be better. However the sling as fitted by the manufacturer is the only thing with any testing to establish a known breaking strain in that specific application.

For what it's worth it may be better to leave the original sling (assuming we are seeing some wear and getting a little jumpy, rather than it being part cut etc.) and simply back it up with 5.5mm dynema cord, it's the the knot which is the bulky addition, so leaving the sling won't add much to that.

Alternatively buy cams from a manufacturer who offers a full support service.

In reply to Wayne S:

This is exactly how I re-slung some old friends I had been given.

I bought 30cm 8mm dyneema slings and passed the sling through the hole in the cam and then passed both ends of the sling through a snap gate biner. This gives 15cm slings off the cam. Worked fine and was as close to the original sewn sling as you can get i.e. no knots any where.

Only down side I could see is that you need a snap gate biner for each cam? In my opinion though this is the best way to rack cams anyway

In reply to Wayne S:
It is true that the knot introduces a weakness, but the strength of a doubled up dyneema sling should still be sufficient (i.e. larger than the force generated by a fall or the failure limit of the cam).

I prefer having the sling fixed on the cam end, which reduces the chance of clipping mistakes. You can think of it as larks´ footing the sling, with an added protection against the sling working itself loose.

The main disadvantage of the approach is that the bowline can form a rather bulky blob at the base of the cam that makes racking inconvenient or could even interfere with some placements, especially when using thicker nylon slings.

For that reason I have rethreaded my old hexes with nylon cord rather than flat sling material, and have to make do with a double fisherman´ s knot halfway down the sling.

CB

edit: if you prefer threading sewn slings, having a Chris Tan Death style shrink tube and a fixed carabiner would also get rid of the mis-clipping risk.

In reply to cb294:


For large hexes, you can (depending on the diameter of the cord) lose the knot *inside* the hex.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Good point, but they are not THAT big!

CB

In reply to cb294:

Jim tit says for tape bowline on the bight is the strongest loop knot

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=575476

In reply to Rob Parsons:


Never thought of doing that before. But doesn't that stop you from pulling the rope/cord through the hex
to make it an emergency extender or sling?

Still a good idea though.

In reply to jimtitt:

I thought thus would be the case. It's still pretty daft IMO, surely there could be a way of indemnifying the company who put the new sling on so that they are only responsible for the sling, A disclaimer/acceptance of T+C stating that they only guarantee the safety of the sling. Who knows.

In reply to Rob Parsons:


Only the manufacturer (or importer) has access to the technical file and can establish the product conforms to the relevant standard. A third-party replacement of the sling voids the certification unless they act as the manufacturers agents.
It´ s all somehwere in the guidance notes for the directive.

In reply to gethin_allen:


If a cam was made of seperate components like a quickdraw then each part recieves it´ s own certification and can be replaced at will, with cams the unit is certified as an entirety and the certification only applies to the complete assembly.
You can´ t "disclaim" anything under the PPE directive, it has nothing to do with liability, simply conformity to the legal requirements in the standard.
My own opinion as an equipment manufacturer as we do a certain amount of lower-off refurbishment on other companies products (and having discussed exactly this issue with a number of cam manufacturers) is that the hassle, bookkeeping involved, logging the repairs in and out and checking the unit for wear and tear or damage would make sling replacement completely uneconomic and a company would only provide it as a service to their customers. I only accept batches of 50 or more chainsets for ring/karabiner replacement, less than that the paperwork costs rapidly exceed any profit.

In reply to airborne:

How about a dyneema sling basket hitched? Could switch to a larks foot to extend, at the cost of some strength, but still within the expected breaking strength limit (according to the DMM drop tests).