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Well? I never have and am reasonably confident making financial decisions. However, various dramatic changes in my life recently mean I am considering it, at least once to see if I am missing any considerations. Any experiences, good or bad?
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In reply to MG:
Experiences: I always go into the bank and ask them. It's been free for me so far. One thing's for sure, they've given me good advice and it's been really helpful.
> ....Any experiences, good or bad?
Experiences: I always go into the bank and ask them. It's been free for me so far. One thing's for sure, they've given me good advice and it's been really helpful.
In reply to MG:
Yes.
They're working with policies and money all day and should know all the policies and some quick tricks that will save you time and money.
A 5minute phone call to mine was free and saved me a few thousand pounds in March. If I'd taken the banks advice they would have been a few thousand pounds richer.
Yes.
They're working with policies and money all day and should know all the policies and some quick tricks that will save you time and money.
A 5minute phone call to mine was free and saved me a few thousand pounds in March. If I'd taken the banks advice they would have been a few thousand pounds richer.
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In reply to DancingOnRock:
Interesting. There is no way I am asking a bank for advice. Not sure if Abseil is joking - hope so!
In fact I did go in to a bank recently for the first time in about 10 years. What a horrible place - loud piped music.
Interesting. There is no way I am asking a bank for advice. Not sure if Abseil is joking - hope so!
In fact I did go in to a bank recently for the first time in about 10 years. What a horrible place - loud piped music.
Post edited at 14:28
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In reply to MG:
My brother and sis in law have been during a house move, and have found him very helpful, and my dad has been over the years, to do with inheritance ponderings, and pensions etc.
All positive for the couple of ones used in South Yorkshire.
My brother and sis in law have been during a house move, and have found him very helpful, and my dad has been over the years, to do with inheritance ponderings, and pensions etc.
All positive for the couple of ones used in South Yorkshire.
In reply to MG:
I haven't claimed benefits since I was a student, is that what the dole office is like these days?
> In fact I did go in to a bank recently for the first time in about 10 years. What a horrible place - loud piped music.
I haven't claimed benefits since I was a student, is that what the dole office is like these days?
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In reply to MG:
Not off hand, but I'm sure I could find out for you by the end of today. I'll get back to you and let you know if I have done.
Not off hand, but I'm sure I could find out for you by the end of today. I'll get back to you and let you know if I have done.
In reply to MG:
if you go into the bank you will end up with a tied financial adviser ie one who can only tell you about the products which their employer, the bank, has on offer. What you probably want is an independent financial adviser so one who can give you advise and recommendations across all the various financial product suppliers.
if you go into the bank you will end up with a tied financial adviser ie one who can only tell you about the products which their employer, the bank, has on offer. What you probably want is an independent financial adviser so one who can give you advise and recommendations across all the various financial product suppliers.
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In reply to hms:
Yes. But it's not just about what policies are on offer. It's also about how you handle those policies and timing when to move from one policy to another.
E.g. If you took out a 25 year policy 10 years ago and would pay a penalty for cancelling it, most people would keep the policy going. However, if there's a new policy that promisies a better return, it might be better to pay that penalty and move to a new one. Especially if you are remortgaging.
Yes. But it's not just about what policies are on offer. It's also about how you handle those policies and timing when to move from one policy to another.
E.g. If you took out a 25 year policy 10 years ago and would pay a penalty for cancelling it, most people would keep the policy going. However, if there's a new policy that promisies a better return, it might be better to pay that penalty and move to a new one. Especially if you are remortgaging.
In reply to MG:
I used not to use an adviser (except for an annual - to semi annual chat), but as I get older, I find that my decision-making (let alone my knowledge!) is not quite as good as I think it is. Four years ago , I started an experiment to see whether my efforts could do better than a managed portfolio (which is not cheap - 1.25% of assets under management). In theory, I should be able to do slightly better than the managed portfolio as I don't have any fees, or negligible fees, even if my performance isn't quite as good. Rather to my alarm, I found that I did slightly worse, net of fees.
It was a bit of an eye-opener. Especially as I regard myself as way above average (of course - isn't everyone?).
It's possible that I'm not disciplined enough in my decision making!
However, there are some charlatans out there as well.
I used not to use an adviser (except for an annual - to semi annual chat), but as I get older, I find that my decision-making (let alone my knowledge!) is not quite as good as I think it is. Four years ago , I started an experiment to see whether my efforts could do better than a managed portfolio (which is not cheap - 1.25% of assets under management). In theory, I should be able to do slightly better than the managed portfolio as I don't have any fees, or negligible fees, even if my performance isn't quite as good. Rather to my alarm, I found that I did slightly worse, net of fees.
It was a bit of an eye-opener. Especially as I regard myself as way above average (of course - isn't everyone?).
It's possible that I'm not disciplined enough in my decision making!
However, there are some charlatans out there as well.
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In reply to MG:
Very unfortunately I wasn't joking.... which only goes to show (having read the replies since my last reply) [1] I am very naïve, and/including [2] I know absolutely nothing about money, ha-ha that's not news to Mrs. Abseil
> ....There is no way I am asking a bank for advice. Not sure if Abseil is joking - hope so!
Very unfortunately I wasn't joking.... which only goes to show (having read the replies since my last reply) [1] I am very naïve, and/including [2] I know absolutely nothing about money, ha-ha that's not news to Mrs. Abseil
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In reply to abseil:
It depends on your attitude to risk.
If you just want a repayment mortgage and an ISA the bank will give you straightforward advice.
It depends on your attitude to risk.
If you just want a repayment mortgage and an ISA the bank will give you straightforward advice.
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In reply to pneame:
Interesting, not sure what you mean about a managed portfolio, but this guy here is slightly better than average a stock picking, and he reckons trackers are the best
http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/03/04/469247400/episode-688-brillian...
When you say managed what is being managed.
Interesting, not sure what you mean about a managed portfolio, but this guy here is slightly better than average a stock picking, and he reckons trackers are the best
http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/03/04/469247400/episode-688-brillian...
When you say managed what is being managed.
In reply to MG:
No, never used one. I'd reckon that a reasonably financially competent person doesn't need one, since these days you can get enough sensible advice on various financial websites (and indeed UKC!).
No, never used one. I'd reckon that a reasonably financially competent person doesn't need one, since these days you can get enough sensible advice on various financial websites (and indeed UKC!).
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In reply to pneame:
But hold on, in any managed portfolio there is inevitably a wide spread of how successful it will be. Afterall, no-one can properly predict how a portfolio of shares will perform. Thus professionally run funds inevitably vary a lot in outcomes. You'd have to do your experiment over a hundred times before you could deduce much from it!
> Four years ago , I started an experiment to see whether my efforts could do better than a managed portfolio (which is not cheap - 1.25% of assets under management). [...] Rather to my alarm, I found that I did slightly worse, net of fees.
But hold on, in any managed portfolio there is inevitably a wide spread of how successful it will be. Afterall, no-one can properly predict how a portfolio of shares will perform. Thus professionally run funds inevitably vary a lot in outcomes. You'd have to do your experiment over a hundred times before you could deduce much from it!
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In reply to MG:
I thought personal finances were very simple and manageable until I went self-employed at the age of 53, mainly because I didn't think I was well enough off to worry about it. I found an Independent FA through recommendation from other s/employed people and have been very glad that I did, especially during the 2008 crisis which hit my pension pot quite hard but the IFA helped me recover quickly. Without him it would have been disastrous for my pension and prep for older age.
Now its the Brexit uncertainties to keep an eye on, and these guys have access to info, software and networks that I don't. I've learned that when you find an honest expert in any field in life it makes sense to listen to them. If I could go round again, I'd have found one earlier in my working life and I'd have plugged in sooner to their expertise. As with so many things, some of them are great and some are not.
Of course if you are interested and sharp with this stuff, and have the time and inclination to dig deep into the financial labyrinth, you won't need to bother. If not, try one. You don't have to stick with one for longer than you feel comfortable - move on till you find a good one. Ask around in your area. It makes no difference how small a pot you're working with, and they are required to tell you if they get commission on products or if you pay them.
Just saying!
Dave
I thought personal finances were very simple and manageable until I went self-employed at the age of 53, mainly because I didn't think I was well enough off to worry about it. I found an Independent FA through recommendation from other s/employed people and have been very glad that I did, especially during the 2008 crisis which hit my pension pot quite hard but the IFA helped me recover quickly. Without him it would have been disastrous for my pension and prep for older age.
Now its the Brexit uncertainties to keep an eye on, and these guys have access to info, software and networks that I don't. I've learned that when you find an honest expert in any field in life it makes sense to listen to them. If I could go round again, I'd have found one earlier in my working life and I'd have plugged in sooner to their expertise. As with so many things, some of them are great and some are not.
Of course if you are interested and sharp with this stuff, and have the time and inclination to dig deep into the financial labyrinth, you won't need to bother. If not, try one. You don't have to stick with one for longer than you feel comfortable - move on till you find a good one. Ask around in your area. It makes no difference how small a pot you're working with, and they are required to tell you if they get commission on products or if you pay them.
Just saying!
Dave
Post edited at 19:23
In reply to Coel Hellier:
There's an element of time. Yes I *could* read up on everything myself, and then do it again next year and the year after, but, with increasingly complex arrangements it starts to get tedious and not happen, so maybe getting someone else to do the legwork and admin is worth the cost? Second, I would hope someone doing this full time would notice some possibilities I miss. I will try, and see what happens.
There's an element of time. Yes I *could* read up on everything myself, and then do it again next year and the year after, but, with increasingly complex arrangements it starts to get tedious and not happen, so maybe getting someone else to do the legwork and admin is worth the cost? Second, I would hope someone doing this full time would notice some possibilities I miss. I will try, and see what happens.
Post edited at 19:39
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Certainly true. And in a hundred different parallel universes. One of the thought processes is that managing a portfolio is basically about managing risk on a time-line where the risk varies as you move along it. Late in life, the risk tends to be more along the lines of being wiped out in a market/real estate/global whatever - induced downturn, as you don't have as much income earning capacity left which will buffer losses. Earlier in life, the risk is more avoiding inflation-induced downturns.
In my experiment, N is actually about 5 - one thing that certainly seems to be a pattern is that the less I "fiddle around" the better the outcome. To my chagrin.
> You'd have to do your experiment over a hundred times before you could deduce much from it!
Certainly true. And in a hundred different parallel universes. One of the thought processes is that managing a portfolio is basically about managing risk on a time-line where the risk varies as you move along it. Late in life, the risk tends to be more along the lines of being wiped out in a market/real estate/global whatever - induced downturn, as you don't have as much income earning capacity left which will buffer losses. Earlier in life, the risk is more avoiding inflation-induced downturns.
In my experiment, N is actually about 5 - one thing that certainly seems to be a pattern is that the less I "fiddle around" the better the outcome. To my chagrin.
In reply to MG:
I think a good one is worthwhile and know many city professionals who use one for their personal finances. Personally I don't think they are particularly useful for "picking winners" but they can structure a portfolio to suit your age and risk profile and should be aware of tax and regulatory pitfalls and opportunities.
It's not rocket science, and if you've got the time and the interest you could do it yourself, but most people don't have that. Also,as Mr.Neame says, there is temptation to fiddle around too much if you do it yourself.
I think a good one is worthwhile and know many city professionals who use one for their personal finances. Personally I don't think they are particularly useful for "picking winners" but they can structure a portfolio to suit your age and risk profile and should be aware of tax and regulatory pitfalls and opportunities.
It's not rocket science, and if you've got the time and the interest you could do it yourself, but most people don't have that. Also,as Mr.Neame says, there is temptation to fiddle around too much if you do it yourself.
Post edited at 19:39
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In reply to J1234:
Aye, Buffet is pretty good. Perhaps the biggest lesson is that he lives very modestly. Although since he became a part-owner of Netjets, he doesn't travel on commercial airlines.
The thing that surprises me most is that the managed portfolio is actually a basket of unit trusts (Mutual funds in the US) that are not indexes. This is supposed to be a daft thing to do, but it seems to work quite well- from the point of view of managing risk. I've had a "tracker" portfolio as a theoretical construct and it has done about the same with a slight increase in volatility (risk).
> When you say managed what is being managed.
Aye, Buffet is pretty good. Perhaps the biggest lesson is that he lives very modestly. Although since he became a part-owner of Netjets, he doesn't travel on commercial airlines.
The thing that surprises me most is that the managed portfolio is actually a basket of unit trusts (Mutual funds in the US) that are not indexes. This is supposed to be a daft thing to do, but it seems to work quite well- from the point of view of managing risk. I've had a "tracker" portfolio as a theoretical construct and it has done about the same with a slight increase in volatility (risk).
In reply to MG:
I have started using one over the last couple of years. He's very good. PM me if you need details.
He's no relative by the way.
I have started using one over the last couple of years. He's very good. PM me if you need details.
He's no relative by the way.
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Professionally managed funds have teams of people reasearching companies full time. They even know when a pharmaceutical company has headhunted a top scientist, or a mining company has started exploring a certain area and found minerals.
It's very unlikely that you'd have the resources to do this working part time in your own.
> But hold on, in any managed portfolio there is inevitably a wide spread of how successful it will be. Afterall, no-one can properly predict how a portfolio of shares will perform. Thus professionally run funds inevitably vary a lot in outcomes. You'd have to do your experiment over a hundred times before you could deduce much from it!
Professionally managed funds have teams of people reasearching companies full time. They even know when a pharmaceutical company has headhunted a top scientist, or a mining company has started exploring a certain area and found minerals.
It's very unlikely that you'd have the resources to do this working part time in your own.
Post edited at 21:13
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Most managed funds are closet trackers which make judgements based on nods and winks (and the occasional backhander).
Get a tracker, save the cash.
> Professionally managed funds have teams of people reasearching companies full time. They even know when a pharmaceutical company has headhunted a top scientist, or a mining company has started exploring a certain area and found minerals. It's very unlikely that you'd have the resources to do this working part time in your own.
Most managed funds are closet trackers which make judgements based on nods and winks (and the occasional backhander).
Get a tracker, save the cash.
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In reply to bouldery bits:
What a load of utter bollocks.
I can be as cynical as the next guy about what value fund managers add but this caricature is just nonsense.
> make judgements based on nods and winks (and the occasional backhander).
>What a load of utter bollocks.
I can be as cynical as the next guy about what value fund managers add but this caricature is just nonsense.
Post edited at 22:31
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Yes. We have 4 floors at work with about 2,000 people all nodding and winking at each other.
Yes. We have 4 floors at work with about 2,000 people all nodding and winking at each other.
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In reply to DancingOnRock:
Whilst passing brown envelopes from desk to desk.....
> Yes. We have 4 floors at work with about 2,000 people all nodding and winking at each other.
Whilst passing brown envelopes from desk to desk.....
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In reply to MG:
From my understanding it is not the ability of the financial advisor to make better decisions, but the access they have to financial products. If you have a rough idea of what you are doing and just want to invest in shares or regular funds, and are happy to play the long game I think one can be successful without one. If you want to invest in foreign markets or more exotic funds, or buy and sell shares within a wrapper you might need a financial advisor.
I would say speak to an advisor then have another think. You don't have to do what they suggest.
I have one. Sometimes I think he is a waste of time, sometimes I think he is ok, and occasionally I am really pleased.
From my understanding it is not the ability of the financial advisor to make better decisions, but the access they have to financial products. If you have a rough idea of what you are doing and just want to invest in shares or regular funds, and are happy to play the long game I think one can be successful without one. If you want to invest in foreign markets or more exotic funds, or buy and sell shares within a wrapper you might need a financial advisor.
I would say speak to an advisor then have another think. You don't have to do what they suggest.
I have one. Sometimes I think he is a waste of time, sometimes I think he is ok, and occasionally I am really pleased.
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In reply to MG:
Wouldn't have got our mortgage when we did without the help of an independent financial advisor as the banks didn't want to know us.
Wouldn't have got our mortgage when we did without the help of an independent financial advisor as the banks didn't want to know us.
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In reply to MG: started using one some years back, when trying to work out when I could afford to retire early. Used one that was recommended by friends. Took his advice when offered voluntary redundancy at 60 to work out how to rejig the finances to keep me afloat until drawing the pensions at 65. I'm sure if I'd committed enough time myself I could have sorted it, but his background knowledge and advice was invaluable. I've recommended him to other friends who have been very happy with his advice.
In reply to MG:
I used an IFA for the first time a couple of years ago, as I needed to move my pension to a new provider.
I'm now of the opinion that it's a bit of a racket. He wanted 1% of my entire pension every year just to "manage" it. Over the years until my retirement this would add up to a huge chunk of my pension going to him. He put the pension in a couple of middle of the road managed funds with a big name provider, which is fine by me, but that was it. 1% of the money I've been saving for 15 years, for a straightforward job. He then made some errors setting it up which meant I spent many hours chasing it up with the pension provider. After that I lost all confidence in him and made a complaint. He still got his 1% for the first year, but he's not getting any more.
I now need financial advice again, but I'm thoroughly disillusioned with IFAs and don't know where to go. Does anyone know if can get advice on an hourly rate?
I used an IFA for the first time a couple of years ago, as I needed to move my pension to a new provider.
I'm now of the opinion that it's a bit of a racket. He wanted 1% of my entire pension every year just to "manage" it. Over the years until my retirement this would add up to a huge chunk of my pension going to him. He put the pension in a couple of middle of the road managed funds with a big name provider, which is fine by me, but that was it. 1% of the money I've been saving for 15 years, for a straightforward job. He then made some errors setting it up which meant I spent many hours chasing it up with the pension provider. After that I lost all confidence in him and made a complaint. He still got his 1% for the first year, but he's not getting any more.
I now need financial advice again, but I'm thoroughly disillusioned with IFAs and don't know where to go. Does anyone know if can get advice on an hourly rate?
Post edited at 07:57
In reply to Hooo:
Yes you can. No commission, fee up front, is the new system.
> Does anyone know if can get advice on an hourly rate?
Yes you can. No commission, fee up front, is the new system.
In reply to MG:
I do on the basis that he can give me access to investments that are not freely available in the market. Mine is also a good sounding board for strategic investment planning. The fees however are eye-watering.
On the other hand, the bank spiv who takes 1% of my mum's savings every year for "managing" her almost static portfolio of big name brand unit trusts that you can buy online is doing little more than fleecing her. Mum however is happy because her investments have performed very well over time. And her contentment is not to be underestimated. The psychology of investing is often more important than the maths!!
I do on the basis that he can give me access to investments that are not freely available in the market. Mine is also a good sounding board for strategic investment planning. The fees however are eye-watering.
On the other hand, the bank spiv who takes 1% of my mum's savings every year for "managing" her almost static portfolio of big name brand unit trusts that you can buy online is doing little more than fleecing her. Mum however is happy because her investments have performed very well over time. And her contentment is not to be underestimated. The psychology of investing is often more important than the maths!!
In reply to BnB:
How does he charge - by the hour?
> I do on the basis that he can give me access to investments that are not freely available in the market. Mine is also a good sounding board for strategic investment planning. The fees however are eye-watering.
How does he charge - by the hour?
In reply to BnB:
Is that really true these days? An execution-only broker such as Hargreaves Lansdown can give you access to most things a "normal" investor would want.
> I do on the basis that he can give me access to investments that are not freely available in the market.
Is that really true these days? An execution-only broker such as Hargreaves Lansdown can give you access to most things a "normal" investor would want.
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In reply to DancingOnRock and PostmanPat:
You know the fund management rules.
Follow the index. Make a minor adjustment. Take the IFAs out on corporates so they push units for you.
(And don't tell me they don't exist anymore. CPD away day anyone?)
Whole thing's a sham.
Get a tracker.
You know the fund management rules.
Follow the index. Make a minor adjustment. Take the IFAs out on corporates so they push units for you.
(And don't tell me they don't exist anymore. CPD away day anyone?)
Whole thing's a sham.
Get a tracker.
Post edited at 09:17
In reply to MG:
Not an IFA, but I spoke to the pension advisor at work. She appeared to know less, and be less interested, than I had learned in 30 minutes googling; about the company pension scheme, pension schemes in general and changes to state pension. I'm sure there are some excellent IFAs out there, but she really didn't fill me with confidence.
Not an IFA, but I spoke to the pension advisor at work. She appeared to know less, and be less interested, than I had learned in 30 minutes googling; about the company pension scheme, pension schemes in general and changes to state pension. I'm sure there are some excellent IFAs out there, but she really didn't fill me with confidence.
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In reply to bouldery bits:
I agree about trackers, but the rest of your caricature is nonsense. Most fund managers I know avoid IFAs like the plague. What do they do with them, "wink and nod"?
> You know the fund management rules.Follow the index. Make a minor adjustment. Take the IFAs out on corporates so they push units for you.(And don't tell me they don't exist anymore. CPD away day anyone?) Whole thing's a sham.Get a tracker.
>I agree about trackers, but the rest of your caricature is nonsense. Most fund managers I know avoid IFAs like the plague. What do they do with them, "wink and nod"?
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In reply to Coel Hellier:
My portfolio includes a decent proportion of wholesale products, which are not available through execution only services. Retail banks package these derivative-based instruments in a variety of "bonds" but the pricing and returns are far better on the wholesale market, as with most things.
> Is that really true these days? An execution-only broker such as Hargreaves Lansdown can give you access to most things a "normal" investor would want.
My portfolio includes a decent proportion of wholesale products, which are not available through execution only services. Retail banks package these derivative-based instruments in a variety of "bonds" but the pricing and returns are far better on the wholesale market, as with most things.
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Who sells the product? Not fundies.
IfA's, Hargreaves and the pension providers.
Who sells the product? Not fundies.
IfA's, Hargreaves and the pension providers.
In reply to bouldery bits:
The marketing departments of the AMs to the IFAs etc. The Fundies get dragged kicking and screaming into presentations from time to time (at which presumably they stand nodding, winking, and waving brown envelopes).
> Who sells the product? Not fundies.IfA's, Hargreaves and the pension providers.
The marketing departments of the AMs to the IFAs etc. The Fundies get dragged kicking and screaming into presentations from time to time (at which presumably they stand nodding, winking, and waving brown envelopes).
In reply to Postmanpat:
In my experience they stand, nodding, winking and buying rounds of drinks. And more...
> The marketing departments of the AMs to the IFAs etc. The Fundies get dragged kicking and screaming into presentations from time to time (at which presumably they stand nodding, winking, and waving brown envelopes).
In my experience they stand, nodding, winking and buying rounds of drinks. And more...
Post edited at 20:10
In reply to Hooo:
Yes. I work for a national IFA firm.
You can get advice charged hourly and get an estimate of the advice cost upfront. If they push for an ongoing annual service, refuse if you don't want one. They can either accommodate this request or not. They should be able to. Ours can.
Read in full any suitability report you get, paying attention to the costs section.
Also, if you or your family are investing a lot, you can negotiate the advice fees down. IFAs will make a commercial decision.
Yes. I work for a national IFA firm.
You can get advice charged hourly and get an estimate of the advice cost upfront. If they push for an ongoing annual service, refuse if you don't want one. They can either accommodate this request or not. They should be able to. Ours can.
Read in full any suitability report you get, paying attention to the costs section.
Also, if you or your family are investing a lot, you can negotiate the advice fees down. IFAs will make a commercial decision.
Post edited at 13:41
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In reply to bouldery bits:
Tell us more...
> In my experience they stand, nodding, winking and buying rounds of drinks. And more...
Tell us more...
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