UKC

So according to Theresa, we're going to be stronger out of the EU than we were before, and she's the woman to make sure it's going to be that way.

How come she was a remainer then, or has she been to Damascus lately?

In reply to krikoman:

What do you expect her to do, put on a Scottish accent and say "We're all doomed"?
Also, it's perfectly possible to have voted Remain and realise that you have to be pragmatic about what's happened and make the best of a bad situation.
That not only applies to May, but to Corbyn if he's PM as of next week.

In reply to krikoman:

Our PM effectively had a divine revelation whilst walking in Snowdonia that told her to call a snap election, a decision that now looks as though it isn't going to deliver what she wanted*. Now which don't you trust; The PM, walking or Snowdonia?

Just a thought...

T.

* fingers crossed

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Very early on in my climbing career I discovered that not all climbers were truly great people. Many years later, thanks to Theresa May, I discover that not all keen hill walkers are that great, either. A great disappointment.

In reply to krikoman:

This is devastating:

http://musealoudblog.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/david-davis-brexit-negotiatio...

In reply to krikoman:


To be fair to the lady the Country DID vote to exit from the EU. She, being the current PM, now has to implement it.

In reply to brianjcooper:

Your timescale is wrong. She - vaguely, loosely - supported remain; when that didn't happen she changed sides and seized the opportunity for self aggrandisement by becoming PM.

Unfortunately, like Trump, she is very clearly demonstrating that she has promoted herself way beyond her capability. Her denouement and humiliations are going to be messy. And it's us that will pay.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

If her recent appearances are anything to go by, she looks like she's having a breakdown. If she wasn't so loathesome I'd feel sorry for her.

In reply to krikoman:

Whilst Corbyn will be bad for the UK, some poor eu negotiation will be bad too ..

None of it compares to the damage trump is doing or about to do... going back on climate change, his warships now parked off Korea.

I think some perspective helps a little.

In reply to krikoman:

Damascus appropriately. Brexit is, after all, a faith based thing.

In reply to brianjcooper:


At ANY cost? Is it worth implementing anything at ANY cost? Sounds like poor economics to do as such.

In reply to brianjcooper:

"To be fair to the lady the Country DID vote to exit from the EU. She, being the current PM, now has to implement it."

Well, no it didn't, and no she doesn't. A majority of the people who voted chose 'exit', not 'the country'. The referendum was not binding.

In reply to Bob Kemp:

Well, no it didn't, and no she doesn't. A majority of the people who voted chose 'exit', not 'the country'. The referendum was not binding.

Are people really still saying this almost a year later?
It's happened. You might not agree with it, but it has.

In reply to Shani:


The eu are prepared to do anything for their beloved Euro. Keeping Greece in at any cost?

In reply to FactorXXX:


The pragmatic thing for the country would be to leave the EU but stay in the EEA and accept freedom of movement. That would preserve the economy while not going directly against the referendum result. The 48% of remainers could live with it and quite a few of the 52% of leavers who expected this to be the outcome would be happy too.

The pragmatic thing for the Tory party is a hard Brexit no matter what it costs economically and adopting UKIP like policies on immigration because if they don't then UKIP will split the right wing vote and they will likely lose power in Westminster.

The Tories are pragmatically putting their party before the country and economic logic.

In reply to FactorXXX:

....and let us not forget the long and exhaustive list of what "leave" meant when the vote was held.

Oh sorry I forgot there wasn't one and now any challenge to the resultant hard brexit dogma is met with screams of "you are denying the will of the people" as if the result had actually been >75% in favour of leaving.

Rather than the 52/48 split which excluded large proportions of people (e.g. EU citizens and 16 - 17 year olds) who live in this country and are impacted by the result.

How extreme does it have to get before people start realising/reacting to the fact this is not what people actually voted for.

Enforced deportation of all non UK citizens?
Abandonment of all environmental legislation?
Imposition of WTO tariffs on all goods and services?
etc.

In reply to FactorXXX:

I'm not sure why the fact that something has happened implies that we can't talk about it afterwards. In this case, acting on the Brexit referendum will have implications for years to come so it's crucial that we keep discussing it, regardless of whether we agree with it or not. I'd like to think that Brexit supporters are still thinking through the consequences of Brexit, although there doesn't seem to be a great deal of evidence there. Certainly not from the likes of David Davis anyway...

In reply to FactorXXX:


That's all great, but maybe it might be more honest to say, "We'll strive to get the best deal to make Britain as strong as possible...blah blah blah", not "Britain will be stronger" how the f*ck does she know this and what is she basing it on.

If she really felt this she could say, "I thought we should have stayed in but looking at the figures, we can be better out of it because...blah blah blah"

I just makes her look daft.

In reply to krikoman:


This isn't actually a contradiction.

I believe we could be stronger in the EU than we were before.
I believe we could be stronger out of the EU than we were before.

To me, the critical issues affecting our future strength are largely separate to the status membership of the EU. I don't have much faith in the current political system to address these issues sufficiently.

I believe we are doomed whatever happens. Doooomed I tell ye, doooomed.

In reply to jonfun21:


Even that, poor as it is represents a serious challenge to implement, the UK doesn't currently have its own WTO schedule and getting one agreed with the 160+ other members, many of whom we're in some form of dispute with is likely to cost us dear and will absorb many years of diplomatic effort. And that's the easy 'up yours Brussels, no-deal' fallback option!
jk

In reply to krikoman:

TM is a classic completer-finisher, so will do 'the job' she has been set, hence e.g. the crazy net migration target. Never mind the consequences. I consider her a vindictive control freak who cannot delegate or consult, and alienates even her own party - just the profile we need for the Brexit negotiations. Thank heavens we have Davis, Johnson and Fox as back-up....

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

>The Tories are pragmatically putting their party before the country and economic logic.

A rather strange use of the term pragmatic as it could cost their party dear. It seems to me a lot more dogmatic than pragmatic.

In reply to wintertree:


>I believe we could be stronger in the EU than we were before

>I believe we could be stronger out of the EU than we were before.

I believe in unicorns, but it doesn't make it true (only for me), I think you'd like some figures or reasons why, if unicorns are important to our well-being.