/ No gear at top of sport route

Dodgy Dave on 02 Jun 2017 - host81-154-17-186.range81-154.btcentralplus.com
I know this isn't an ideal scenario but hear me out, imagine you get to the top of a sport climb and realise you have absolutely no gear, you can't down climb to the last quickdraw, however if you can anchor yourself you can get your friend to tie gear onto to the rope and send it up to you, how do you go about getting down?
john arran - on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:
In its early days, Dominatrix at Kilnsey had no top anchor. Part of the fun of the route was summoning up the nerve to jump off after rounding the top roof, even though you couldn't see the last bolt as by then it was out of sight under the lip.

edit: typo
Post edited at 17:38
Fraser on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:

Jump.
JIMBO on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:

Use the rope and knots...
jimtitt - on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:

I´ m utterly confused, if you can anchor yourself in then lower off whatever you used to anchor yourself. Or just pull up the rope and lower it back down to collect whatever you wanted.
Alternatively top out or jump off.
WaterMonkey - on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:

What a great question and a scenario I can envisage happening. You use all your draws on the route and drop or forget your slings/krabs at the top.

I'm relatively inexperienced in climbing but I've just had a play...
Should be in the manly thread but I've just gone into my man-cave, harnessed up, tied in and placed a krab on a bolt to act as a closed mallion/chain.

Assuming you can hold on with one hand pull up a load of slack, feed the loop through the mallion, maybe even twice then back down and through your belay loop. Pull this loop up hard until you are pulled in more to the mallion then tie off using a few half hitches. You are now secured to the mallion but are still relying on your original tie in.
Get your partner to hold you here, untie the original rope, feed it back through the mallion so effectively you have a rope coming up from your partner, through the mallion (maybe twice) and down to your belay loop where it is tied on. Use your untied rope to secure further the loop you have tied to your belay loop, then get your partner to lower you.
I managed it hanging on the wall whilst also holding the other end of the rope so if your partner dies laughing at your predicament you can still lower yourself by passing the rope around your back.

I enjoyed the puzzle, doubt the above makes sense until you try it though!
Kevster - on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:

This doesn't happen often, but if your willing to lead it, you should be willing to take the fall, voluntarily may not be so easy.
splitting draws used to be common when I had no money or gear.
there's always chalk bag string or shoe laces....

Hawaii 50?
johncook - on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:

Pull rope, thread thtoigh whatever you are anchored to and ab
Not complicated, just neefs thought and effort.
Much better to read the route and take what you need, like real trad climbing,
Kevster - on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to johncook:

Real trad climbing? Lol. Made me smile.
Anonymous on 02 Jun 2017 - host81-154-17-186.range81-154.btcentralplus.com
In reply to WaterMonkey:

That's what I did, I just pulled the rope through the two points and got my belayer to send up some gear once I was anchored
PS, I'm aware that the starting out forum is probably not the place for this but it's the only place an unregistered user can post and I've forgotten my password
SenzuBean - on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to WaterMonkey:
What you've just described, as far as I can tell, is a standard anchor re-thread, except you tie the bight to your harness instead of tying a figure of 8 and clipping with a screwgate.

See the 4th diagram: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=265
(he has a cowstail as a backup in case you fall while having pulled through 2m of slack [which would be a nice fall])
Post edited at 22:46
WaterMonkey - on 02 Jun 2017
In reply to SenzuBean:

Nearly the same. If you have an anchor then you simply rethread your rope and tie back on. If you have no anchor then you thread a loop of rope and tie on in such a way that it's secure enough to lower off without re-tying.
SenzuBean - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to WaterMonkey:

> Nearly the same. If you have an anchor then you simply rethread your rope and tie back on. If you have no anchor then you thread a loop of rope and tie on in such a way that it's secure enough to lower off without re-tying.

If you have no anchor, then you can't thread or lower off anything because there's nothing there. What do you mean by anchor?
WaterMonkey - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to SenzuBean:

I assume the OP meant you had no slings or krabs to anchor yourself to the top anchor.
jimtitt - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to WaterMonkey:

The OP had already said he could "anchor " himself, how or to what or with what he doesn´ t say which is why it´ s impossible to give any useful advice.
WaterMonkey - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to jimtitt:

> The OP had already said he could "anchor " himself, how or to what or with what he doesn´ t say which is why it´ s impossible to give any useful advice.

I think you need to read it again! It reads to me like he has got to the top of a sport route and realised he has no gear with him to tie in to the anchor.
Rock to Fakey - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:
Absolutely no gear means yr in a potentially desperate situation, if u don't wanna fall that is.
A chain on the top bolts will give some relief, depending on desparateness of last moves / steepness / available foot holds.
No chain, but rings on the bolts / staple bolts, gives you some marginal good finger holds, you can use, if you choose to. So if its not too balency, u can pull enough rope, thread a bite through a ring, pull couple metres slack, + if yr dextrous enough, + calm, tie 2 or 3 half hitchs, or a clove hitch to your belay loop, or overhand knot, + stoppers, u can then get a hand above the knot too if u r scared, + shout take. U could just lower on this then, after reinforcing yr knot for confidence!
But u might just be too knackered.
U could at least pull a bight through a ring for a hand loop and ask them to very gently take, whilst u recover a little strength to then do the full knots.
Or give in + take yr scary whipper!

Getting a friend to tie gear on to a loop u lower ( after tieing yr self to a bite pulled through a ring) is only an option if the route is no more than 1/3 the length of yr rope.
Post edited at 10:23
Trangia on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to WaterMonkey:

> It reads to me like he has got to the top of a sport route and realised he has no gear with him to tie in to the anchor.

This is starting to sound like an Oscar Wilde play

"To lose one parent is tragic, to lose both is careless"

GrahamD - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to WaterMonkey:

> I think you need to read it again! It reads to me like he has got to the top of a sport route and realised he has no gear with him to tie in to the anchor.

Apart from a rope you mean. Can't people use knots ?
jimtitt - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to WaterMonkey:
> I think you need to read it again! It reads to me like he has got to the top of a sport route and realised he has no gear with him to tie in to the anchor.

"however if you can anchor yourself you can get your friend to tie gear onto to the rope and send it up to you, how do you go about getting down?"

If the OP is as confused at the top of routes as his questions appear to be I´ d recommend he only top-ropes in future anyway.
Post edited at 13:07
brianjcooper on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to Kevster:
> there's always chalk bag string or shoe laces....

Good call. It's why I always have cord on my chalk bag and not a belt. Makes a good prusik too etc.
Post edited at 13:46
Rock to Fakey - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to brianjcooper:
What would the easiest / quickest knot to tie with the bite you pull through a ring, with 1 hand?
2 x half hitches?
What is the minimum that u could safely weight, tied with one hand?
It's not easy is it? , bearing in mind u need to try tighten it up too, with one hand, maybe very careful sitting on it too to pull tightish ( but its still loose to the belayer, who no doubt has the belay locked off, but hasn't taken in slack yet).
Post edited at 14:09
brianjcooper on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

> What would the easiest / quickest knot to tie with the bite you pull through a ring, with 1 hand? 2 x half hitches? What is the minimum that u could safely weight, tied with one hand?It's not easy is it? , bearing in mind u need to try tighten it up too, with one hand, maybe very careful sitting on it too to pull tightish ( but its still loose to the belayer, who no doubt has the belay locked off, but hasn't taken in slack yet).

FFS! I was really only agreeing with Kevster that cord can be useful, and probably out of context of the OP.
My mistake for trying to be helpful.

"however if you can anchor yourself you can get your friend to tie gear onto to the rope and send it up to you, how do you go about getting down?"

I'm also confused. With what did the OP anchor himself?

GrahamD - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

Yes two half hitches taken round both strands. If it isn't strong enough (it is) you can only fall as far as the last runner allows anyway.
Rock to Fakey - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to brianjcooper:
Ffs eh?
Probably meant to reply to jt, or anyone really, regarding the climbing rope bite pulled through a ring, sensible question asked, don't get the ffs response!
For sure the cord used as a chalk bag belt has saved lives, or big falls, etc.
No mistake in trying to be helpful
Post edited at 15:59
Rock to Fakey - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to brianjcooper:
It's a sport route, so we could assume there are rings on the 2 almist adjacent belay bolts, or a chain connecting them. You pull a bite up, thread, tie off to harness.
Post edited at 16:03
springfall2008 - on 03 Jun 2017
In reply to Dodgy Dave:

I don't get it - if you can anchor yourself then you can rethread and lower off? If you can't anchor yourself then you just fall off and lower off afterwards...

But, it's very unlikely you will place your last quickdraw and then not realise you run out of draws.
andrewmc - on 05 Jun 2017
In reply to springfall2008:

> But, it's very unlikely you will place your last quickdraw and then not realise you run out of draws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nGdx1IGh48

What a punter :P