/ Middle marking rope?

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routrax - on 10 Jun 2017
I've got some Beal Cobra halfs and they don't have a center mark. I'd like to mark them.as I've found this very useful on my singles.

Done a search and seen lots of conflicting opinions on posts going back a long way, is there a product I can use to mark them without compromising them?

Cheers
Steve
Oceanrower - on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

Sharpie.
HeMa on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

If thinking of a sharpie... then obviously the only thing to use is Beal rope marker... But Mammut says that it'll still weaken the rope.

I've (and numerous others) have used normal sharpies...

But both options are actually rather crap... Especially if you end up choppin' them ropes.

I'm plannin' on doing this in the future...
http://www.haukkari.net/2011/11/nonniin-nyt-olisi-luvassa-jotain.html
routrax - on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to Oceanrower:

I did think of just using a sharpie, but lack the knowledge of the chemistry behind it.

I really don't want to worry about my rope being compromised.

I guess it's just safer to mark the Beal ropes with their product.
routrax - on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to HeMa:

That idea the link seems great, especially if you need to chop off worn ends!

Any possible downsides?
Morty - on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

> That idea the link seems great, especially if you need to chop off worn ends! Any possible downsides?

It could tickle your nose when you are belaying?
gethin_allen on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

An alternative to the threading coloured string method is to thread the ends into the core at the end rather than leave them dangling out, I may give this a go tonight as I've been intending to re mark the centres on my half ropes for a while.
HeMa on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

yup, unlike a sharpie... you need to redo them.

Oh, and while technically the solvent can weaken the rope (mantle), there is quite a lot of test results ranging from battery acid to cat pee... and a crampon hammered right through the mantle & core... still the ropes were rather ok.

I'm more worried about razor sharp flakes and gritty granite aretas than the sharpie middle mark.

That said, each to their own... and indeed some rope manufacturers are rather specific to note that *sharpies are not to be used*. But then again, sharpies and stickers are not to be used on helmets either (and still some helmets, that have this note have stickers on 'em... from the factory).
gethin_allen on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to HeMa:

>"...and still some helmets, that have this note have stickers on 'em... from the factory)."
Not all stickers are equal.

HeMa on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to gethin_allen:

True, but to be honest I kind of doubt that they would use some really special glue on their stickers...

Not to mention that the pro's seem to glue stickers from others sponsors on their helmets anyway...
thebigfriendlymoose - on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

> That idea the link seems great, especially if you need to chop off worn ends! Any possible downsides?

Personally, the imagined potential damage from sticking a sharp needle through my rope worries me more than using a sharpie pen.
tjin - on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

Well Beal does make a rope marker. If the rope manufacture makes a marker, you would imagine it would be safe to use on there ropes...
routrax - on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to tjin:

Yes, my main ropes are Beal, but also have an edelrid and MAMMUT 30 & 40 for indoor / short routes.

I know I'm overthinking this, but that's pretty normal for me.

I'll get the Beal marker and just use it on all of them!
gethin_allen on 10 Jun 2017
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

> Personally, the imagined potential damage from sticking a sharp needle through my rope worries me more than using a sharpie pen.

If you can manage to stab a sewing needle trough a nylon fibre and sever it you are some sort on ninja and should be feared by your enemies. Sewing is all about putting the thread between the threads of the material you are sewing together not through otherwise all your clothes would fall apart at the seams as soon as they are made.
HeMa on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

The Ninja comment. Plus you only mess with the mantle that is not load bearing.

That said in principle the same thing holds true for a sharpie, but the solvent vapours might also affect the core.
thebigfriendlymoose - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to gethin_allen:

> If you can manage to stab a sewing needle trough a nylon fibre and sever it you are some sort on ninja...

I know, that's why I wrote "imagined potential damage" - I was noting the queasiness induced by the notion of sticking something sharp in my rope, rather than the actual level of risk (which I suspect is utterly negligible for both methods).
duchessofmalfi - on 11 Jun 2017
If you are careful you can simple weave the threads under one of the mantle threads and there is no chance of damage.

The downsides are

- eventually the threads all pull out when using the rope and you have to repeat, the last time this happened my belayer tied the thread to the rope which then created a false moving middle marker nowhere near the middle!

- people climbing the next route tend to interrupt you to tell you that there is something seriously wrong with your rope
Niblet on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to HeMa:

So what brand of battery acid should I use to mark the middle? Petzl?
gethin_allen on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

I had a go at threading bright coloured strands through a bit of rope and the results weren't great.
I chose the brightest red accessory cord i had as a source of thread and yet you can't really see it very clearly.
oldie - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to HeMa:

Many inks include some sort of binder/glue which might make cause the core/sheath stiffening and strength loss noted in several posts. Although nylon is said to be resistant to many solvents the testing might not have been done on fine filaments, such as those in a rope, which would be more affected than thicker material.
If one did choose to mark with with ink it might affect strength less if a longer but helical line marking was used as the effect of the ink might be less at any particular point?
jonnie3430 - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

Use some finger tape, just a little, as too many wraps make it thick for going through a belay plate. Easier to see finger tape than black marker, doesn't change the rope and it's easy to replace, as most folks have got finger tape kicking about.
Trangia on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

I don't see how marker ink is going to compromise the rope's core unless you really soak it in. Lightly applying it to the sheath shouldn't logically make any difference.

My Mammut rope came with a black mark already in the sheath at half way point. But whoever did it in the factory got it about half a metre out from dead centre which is irritating when I coil it........
GrahamD - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

I've never been sure why no one ever suggests clothes dye for this.
Trangia on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

Interesting you should say this. Back in the early 1960s when nylon ropes were replacing hemp, they were always laid ropes and white. I used to soak my new ropes in a cold bath of clothes dye so that I could identify them. I was aware that soaking them in boiling water and dye might be harmful, but never considered that the ropes would be weakened by a cold dying process in my bath.
phil456 on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

> Personally, the imagined potential damage from sticking a sharp needle through my rope worries me more than using a sharpie pen.
Buy a curved needle from a sewing shop and carefully just pick up some of the braid , no need to go anywhere near the core
I do mine so there are bits of donated threads close together
Sometimes really spooks a partner when they think the rope is damaged.

MischaHY - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

Personally I just thread from both ends every time I need to find the middle. A very slight increase in faff but worthwhile in my opinion, and saves messing about with multiple sharpie marks etc especially considering that you will likely cut a rope several times.
HeMa on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to MischaHY:
For coilin' the center mark is indeed not needed.

But for rappelling (on single rope), it can be handy (still not needed, though see coiling).

But for checkin' how much rope has gone, well then it's nice (for sport, can you still be safely lowered down, and in the mountains or other long routes, how many meters still left). That said, havin' additional marks like 10-5m before the end is rather nice to boot (5m left).


Oh and the thing about a few strains from a auxilary cord, and a needle will make a nice (and movable) center and 5m til the end marks... That are easily redone, when you end up choppin' the rope...
Post edited at 13:56
jonnie3430 - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to MischaHY:

Try a wrap of finger tape, you can also move it as required.
krikoman - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to HeMa:

> I'm plannin' on doing this in the future...


I've done that and it works great, it looks a bit weird, some frayed bits of stuff hanging out you rope, but it's been fine.
Martin Bennett - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> I used to soak my new ropes in a cold bath of clothes dye so that I could identify them..

I did that too, but with our first ever double (half) kernmantel rope, bought as a 300 foot length of 9mm Edelrid in about 1967 (?). Stuck half of it in a bucket of water with 2 x little tins of Dylon red nylon dye. It never even occurred to me any damage might ensue. I still have a metre or so of the reddened half kept for old time's sake.
We kept it one piece for the first Alpine trip as it obviates the "knot got stuck" syndrome in abseiling. Pretty soon after we chopped it into two having realised the downsides of the concept: (a) all rope has to be carried by one bloke; (b) a 300 foot clusterf*ck is not just twice as bad as a 150 foot one!
starbug - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to routrax:

I had the same thought and have Mammut ropes. On enquiry with Mammut I got the following back:

"For all of our ropes do we recommend Edding 3000, we have tested it and it is 100 % safe to use.

http://www.edding.com/organising-and-marking-at-home/products/edding-3000-permanent-marker/"

From what I can see on the Hazard Sheets for the products
Sharpie pens use a combination of Butanol, Propanol, Diacetone Alcohol and Ethanol
Edding use a propanol and ethanol mix
Beal Rope marker is a hydroalcoholic medium, containing a large percentage of water.

Take from that what you will and mark your rope with your choice of cotton thread, pen, ink etc.
starbug - on 14:07 Fri
In reply to starbug:

Following the response from Mammut below is the reply from Beal:

"BEAL rope marker has been approved by a lot of rope manufacturers. The other manufacturers are listed on the back of the head card of the product. I have to check again, but as far as I remember Mammut approved the rope marker.
There are no decrease of strength due to the rope marker."

As above take from that what you will and mark your rope with your choice.
routrax - on 14:56 Fri
In reply to starbug:

Perfect, I'll pick up beal and use for all my ropes

Thanks
Steve
CurlyStevo - on 16:08 Fri
In reply to HeMa:
> Oh, and while technically the solvent can weaken the rope (mantle), there is quite a lot of test results ranging from battery acid to cat pee... and a crampon hammered right through the mantle & core... still the ropes were rather ok.

Are you trying to move with times or something and embrace the post factual era? Battery acid is definitely not ok!
Post edited at 16:10
HeMa on 16:47 Fri
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Search for the actual Test and data and them make your opinions. The results were quite surpricing.

That said, Even If the data says otherwise. I'd still not use a battery acid soaked rope. But my point being that the ropes are a lot more resilient than people think.
Dan Middleton, BMC - on 19:39 Fri
In reply to HeMa:

> Search for the actual Test and data and them make your opinions. The results were quite surpricing.

I think if you're going to make controversial statements, the onus is on you to provide the data to back it up!

Some links to counter your statement:

http://theuiaa.org/documents/safety/About_Ageing_of_Climbing_Ropes.pdf

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/media/files/Gear/TCM13_01%20Broken_rope.pdf

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcNews/media/u_content/File/equipment_advice/Technical_reports/tcm05_01.pd...

Ropes are amazing pieces of equipment, but sharp edges and acids will break them.
CurlyStevo - on 08:09 Sat
rocky57 - on 20:25 Sun
In reply to HeMa:

> I'm plannin' on doing this in the future...


I've been using this method for ten years now. It is easy to do and works a treat. Although it does raise a few eyebrows when people see it and assume the rope is fraying.

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