/ Gove as Environment Secretary

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Tony Jones - on 11 Jun 2017
So, the man who attempted to remove climate change from the school curriculum, is appointed Environment Secretary. I didn't expect the DUP's influence to be that immediate...
2
johncoxmysteriously - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

It's difficult to find the words for these people, isn't it?

jcm
2
Clint86 - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

I just object to the name. It should be minister against the environment.

Any enlightened leader would ask Caroline Lucas to be minister for the environment..
2
balmybaldwin - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer

He's not appropriate for any senior office least of all this
1
AdrianC - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

Britain will be following the US out of Paris at this rate.
Yanis Nayu - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

It's nothing to do with his suitability for the job though is it? It's May playing the political games she claims not to engage in.
1
Greasy Prusiks on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

I wish we were governed by people with some form of experience or expertise in their jobs.
earlsdonwhu - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Don't be naive.... it is a pre-requisite for politicians to relish playing political games.
keith-ratcliffe on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Clint86:
Now here is an idea. In times of unclear majority (ie now) could there be formed a cross party government of excellence. Each minister is chosen from their party's key principles. Lucas for Environment was referred to, Corbyn for Health Service & Work & Pensions, Farron for a Liberal Home Office, perhaps May could keep Business. Give the SNP Brexit - just for fun. Any more ideas?
bonebag - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

Your all just a bunch of cynics. Get a life and get on with it. Just forget all the politics stuff now. The election is over, done and dusted. How about doing some climbing or something.
43
pec on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

> I wish we were governed by people with some form of experience or expertise in their jobs. >

What, like Corbyn? Ha, ha, ha!

18
Clint86 - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Yes, wouldn't that be enlightened. As it stands, will there be ANYONE with concerns about the environment who approves of the appointment?.....and they wonder why we are cynical about politics.
pasbury on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

I fear for the invertebrates, pond life and the rest of the cabinet.
1
Tony Jones - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to pec:
> What, like Corbyn? Ha, ha, ha!

In fairness, I suspect that Corbyn would be unlikely to appoint a climate change sceptic as Environment Secretary so, in that regard, he would demonstrate greater expertise than May.
Post edited at 22:07
ads.ukclimbing.com
Greasy Prusiks on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to pec:

No. I'm thinking of a climate scientist as environment secretary or a top teacher in charge of education. Surely a doctor would have a better understanding of the NHS than Jeremy Hunt or a top diplomat would be more err diplomatic than Johnson.
birdie num num - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

Corbyn should be Minister for Scruffy Beards
1
pasbury on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to birdie num num:
I thought that was Mrs num num.
Post edited at 22:17
krikoman - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

Should he have been minister for "Sharp, pointy items to be stuck in your mates back"?
2
Postmanpat on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

Here go again. I know it's fun ignoring the facts to indulge in hate figure baiting but Gove is NOT a climate change sceptic.

"In the same way with climate change, I think it’s important that children understand the science that underpins climate change, and that’s why it’s always in the curriculum that we’ve been drawing up, and I think it’s critically important – both in science and in geography – that the impact of changing climate on our physical environment, but also on economic and other facts in our lives, has to be appreciated.

But it’s also the case, as we know and as George Osborne pointed out just last week, that man and his activities clearly have an influence on the climate, and in making sure we take appropriate steps to deal with it, we need to be guided by the science and we need to make sure that we’re hard headed but realistic.....

.....It seems to me unarguable that man has an impact on the climate. It seems to me unarguable that climate change can have a devastating and damaging impact on societies and economies that are even less developed. And therefore it seems to me unarguable that we should seek first to lessen the impact that man might have on the climate, and secondly invest appropriately in measures to mitigate and protect individuals and societies from the impact of climate change."

M.Gove March 2014.

6
pasbury on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Postmanpat:

.. by doing f*ck all about it.
3
Gerry_Doncaster - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

> It's difficult to find the words for these people, isn't it?jcm

Oh I can find the words alright, it just wouldn't be the done thing to type out those words on a public forum.
1
Postmanpat on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to pasbury:

> .. by doing f*ck all about it.

Lol, What was he supposed to do? Put up a windfarm in his back garden?!
1
Hugh J - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Postmanpat:

Stop spoiling our fun Pat. We need all the distractions we can get to alleviate the pain this shower of shite has heaped on us.
Dr.S at work - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Hugh J:

> Stop spoiling our fun Pat. We need all the distractions we can get to alleviate the pain this shower of shite has heaped on us.

The constant catastrophizing gets wearing after a while and is corrosive to the nation, could we have a rest for a week or two?
4
toad - on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

Consider this: Gove is now minister for outside climbing, hill walking and access protection.

pasbury on 11 Jun 2017
In reply to Dr.S at work:
Of course I'd forgotten that the Department of the Environment's main functions now are what the old Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food used to do. Easy job for Gove; free from the massive burden of generous subsidies from the CAP he'll preside over a renaissance for our plucky wellie booted agribusinessmen.
I don't think we should worry ourselves about the environmental remit of his department - I gather it's mainly concerned with the decent management of grouse moors nowadays.
Post edited at 23:24
Clint86 - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Postmanpat:

What part of the Conservative manifesto or rhetoric gives you confidence they will get to grips with the environment. Why are a lot of environmentalists alarmed on the news this morning at his appointment?
1
summo on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to birdie num num:

> Corbyn should be Minister for Scruffy Beards

Or Tweed jackets with elbow patches, a kind of industry ambassador.
1
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Bogwalloper - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Postmanpat:

> Lol, What was he supposed to do? Put up a windfarm in his back garden?!

First thing he can do is overturn the decision by the cons to overturn Lancashire county council's decision on no fracking. But he won't do will he?

Wally
1
Clint86 - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Postmanpat:

No, he wouldn't get planning permission. He should buy his electricity from a green supplier and shout about it.
GrahamD - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to pasbury:

> Of course I'd forgotten that the Department of the Environment's main functions now are what the old Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food used to do. Easy job for Gove; free from the massive burden of generous subsidies from the CAP he'll preside over a renaissance for our plucky wellie booted agribusinessmen.

Assuming he can find someone to pick the crops, now the door is being shut.
pasbury on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

Or anyone to sell them to, now the door is being shut.
Bulls Crack - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

My new boss..........

What a start to the working week
Offwidth - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Postmanpat:

Only Tony said that and its an easy mistake to make since the suggestion for curriculum change was his decision and such action hardly seems consistent with his stated views in that quote.
1
Offwidth - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Do you really think he is going to be worse than AL?
1
Bulls Crack - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Offwidth:
As a minister - maybe, maybe not but I happen to know via close friend who had dealings with him that he's every bit the odious, vicious twunt he's made out to be
Post edited at 11:19
1
Tony Jones - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

Aye, and to be honest (particularly with regard to Gove), actions speak louder than words.

As has already been said further up thread, such appointments are almost always made for political reasons rather than because of any relevant expertise the chosen candidate may have.

timjones - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

> Assuming he can find someone to pick the crops, now the door is being shut.

I'm not sure that he wants to.

One of his lines during the run up to the Brexit referendum was that it was an opportunity to import cheap food from less wealthy nations
1
Bulls Crack - on 12 Jun 2017
Jim C - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

> Now here is an idea. In times of unclear majority (ie now) could there be formed a cross party government of excellence. Each minister is chosen from their party's key principles. Lucas for Environment was referred to, Corbyn for Health Service & Work & Pensions, Farron for a Liberal Home Office, perhaps May could keep Business. Give the SNP Brexit - just for fun. Any more ideas?

If SNP are in charge of Brexit then Arlene Foster should get Environment.
1
Jim C - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> As a minister - maybe, maybe not but I happen to know via close friend who had dealings with him that he's every bit the odious, vicious twunt he's made out to be

A pussycat compared to his wife though.
toad - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

has Mark Avery's take been posted yet? Apols if it has, but it's worth a shufty

http://markavery.info/2017/06/12/secretary-state-environment-food-rural-affairs/
Yanis Nayu - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Postmanpat:

There's more to being Env Sec than denying man-made climate change though. You need to ensure farmers are using stuff that kills bees and supermarkets can still sell chickens riddled with campylobacter.
1
birdie num num - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to pasbury:

Mrs Num Num could be Labour Minister for Vegetable Double Penetration
2
Lion Bakes on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to birdie num num:

> Mrs Num Num could be Labour Minister for Vegetable Double Penetration

The VDP party could form an alliance with the SNP party
Stuart en Écosse - on 12 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

Gove as Environment Secretary. Johnson as Foreign Secretary. Fallon as Defence Secretary. May as PM.

And Diane Abbott gets all the attention.
Dave Garnett - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Stuart en Écosse:

> And Diane Abbott gets all the attention.

Not any more, but yes, that's why her incompetence was so frustrating!
jkarran - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Postmanpat:

> .....It seems to me unarguable that man has an impact on the climate. It seems to me unarguable that climate change can have a devastating and damaging impact on societies and economies that are even less developed. And therefore it seems to me unarguable that we should seek first to lessen the impact that man might have on the climate, and secondly invest appropriately in measures to mitigate and protect individuals and societies from the impact of climate change."
> M.Gove March 2014.

Nice words if still somewhat equivocal. Poor voting record but apparently he was just doing as he was told by people who knew better so that's ok.

Perhaps a return to journalism would be in everyone's best interest.
jk
Dell on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

I nicked this, but here goes....


"Michael Gove's face is like someone dropped a pair of glasses onto a full English breakfast"
1
Clint86 - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Tony Jones:

I just took this post from the beekeepers site on Fakebook......

This is about neonicotinoids (neonics). These are insect nerve poisons currently used as insecticides by farmers throughout Britain (and the world). Their names are thiomethoxam, clothianidin imidacloprid etc. Three nanograms (3 thousand millionths of a gram) will kill a honey bee. You may also apply them in liquid form to your cat or dog's nape to kill fleas.
Biking through Suffolk near Peasenhall. Wonderful rolling agricultural land, good hedges and lots of trees lining the roads and in coppices. But - we heard nor saw a single songbird - no swallows swooping over the wheat, no yellow-hammers on bush-tops telling us about 'a little bit of bread and no cheeeese', no whitethroats bubbling their song in the woods, no chiff-chaffs to time our pedalling, no thrushes singing their hearts' out in the treetops.
No insects.
Birds need insects to feed their nestlings or they die.
The land is dead and deserted except for acres of wheat, rape setting its seed, barley for our beer and beet for our sugar.
Fields of beans already in flower devoid of pollinators.
Prof Goulson gives an astonishing statistic showing the 80% reduction in insect life in Germany since 1990 when neonics started. ** Is it the same here?
Am I wrong to worry? Am I the only one to fear that this Tory government will reverse the 'ban' on neonics when we leave the EU? ('Ban' in inverted commas because neonics are allowed on wind pollinnated crops like cereal and maize).
They are water soluble and remain in the soil for between 6 months and 20 years. Only 5% of seed dressings of neonics are absorbed by the plant. 95% washes off into the soil where it is dispersed into hedgerows, woods and rivers by the rain. In some circumstances of pH and temperature * etc, the 'magic' chemical groups that make these poisons specific to insects are lost. They then become more directly toxic to birds and fish. More terrifyingly they revert to become toxic nerve poisons that effect mammals. We are mammals. We take river water to supply some of our drinking water. Some treatment plants let the modified neonics through to the tap.
Have we gone completely mad?

I really don't trust Gove to sort this out.
BnB - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Clint86:

> I just took this post from the beekeepers site on Fakebook......

> This is about neonicotinoids (neonics). These are insect nerve poisons currently used as insecticides by farmers throughout Britain (and the world). Their names are thiomethoxam, clothianidin imidacloprid etc. Three nanograms (3 thousand millionths of a gram) will kill a honey bee. You may also apply them in liquid form to your cat or dog's nape to kill fleas.

> Biking through Suffolk near Peasenhall. Wonderful rolling agricultural land, good hedges and lots of trees lining the roads and in coppices. But - we heard nor saw a single songbird - no swallows swooping over the wheat, no yellow-hammers on bush-tops telling us about 'a little bit of bread and no cheeeese', no whitethroats bubbling their song in the woods, no chiff-chaffs to time our pedalling, no thrushes singing their hearts' out in the treetops.

> No insects.

> Birds need insects to feed their nestlings or they die.

> The land is dead and deserted except for acres of wheat, rape setting its seed, barley for our beer and beet for our sugar.

> Fields of beans already in flower devoid of pollinators.

> Prof Goulson gives an astonishing statistic showing the 80% reduction in insect life in Germany since 1990 when neonics started. ** Is it the same here?

> Am I wrong to worry? Am I the only one to fear that this Tory government will reverse the 'ban' on neonics when we leave the EU? ('Ban' in inverted commas because neonics are allowed on wind pollinnated crops like cereal and maize).

> They are water soluble and remain in the soil for between 6 months and 20 years. Only 5% of seed dressings of neonics are absorbed by the plant. 95% washes off into the soil where it is dispersed into hedgerows, woods and rivers by the rain. In some circumstances of pH and temperature * etc, the 'magic' chemical groups that make these poisons specific to insects are lost. They then become more directly toxic to birds and fish. More terrifyingly they revert to become toxic nerve poisons that effect mammals. We are mammals. We take river water to supply some of our drinking water. Some treatment plants let the modified neonics through to the tap.

> Have we gone completely mad?

> I really don't trust Gove to sort this out.

Given the attitude of most posters on UKC towards him I'm surprised he hasn't been blamed yet

On a more serious note, that's a horrifying read.
Ian McIntosh - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to jkarran:
Poor voting record but apparently he was just doing as he was told by people who knew better so that's ok.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-gove-environment-secretary-voting-record-green...









Clint86 - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to BnB:

Yes. I don't use Fake book very much but at least we can't say we haven't been warned.

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