/ Epic TV, disrespectful customer service

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Kenneth - on 13 Jun 2017
I ordered two per of shoes from epictv (as I have done many times), and today I received the package with a Scarpa instinct instead of La Sportiva Skwama.

After receiving a wrong item, they made no attempts to correct problem and expected me to go through the hassle of sending the wrong product back to get a refund, and never seeing the product I purchased.

I sent pictures of received product, but they persist, that they made no mistake.

Worst part is, they made no attempt to regret the problem or offer any kind of compensation for the trouble, and basically accused med of lying.

Anyone else experience anything similar?
sensibleken - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Kenneth:

"After receiving a wrong item, they made no attempts to correct problem and expected me to go through the hassle of sending the wrong product back to get a refund"

Isn't is standard practice to send back the item to get a refund? Even if the've shipped the wrong one?
balmybaldwin - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to sensibleken:

Yes, but I think the OP's point was the response should have been, "oh we're terribly sorry, please return the shoes at no cost and we'll get the ones you actually ordered out in the first post"

Presumably they don't want to do that and risk not having the first pair of shoes returned.
La benya - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Kenneth:

its a legal requirement to pay for the return shipping of a faulty item for distance selling.
if your implying they should allow you to keep the instincts and send you the correct shoe as well, i think thats taking the piss.
alexm198 - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Kenneth:

I had a similar experience with EpicTV. Essentially they sent me the wrong item (an older model), and while they were entirely happy for me to return it, they repeatedly denied that what they had sent me was an older model, despite me having confirmation from the manufacturer that the newer model actually hadn't been released yet.

I returned them for a refund and asked them to cover postage, which they didn't. I didn't pursue it because I didn't really know my rights. The whole experience has really put me off EpicTV as a retailer.
captain paranoia - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to La benya:

> if your implying they should allow you to keep the instincts and send you the correct shoe as well, i think thats taking the piss.

He doesn't seem to be implying that at all.

"I sent pictures of received product, but they persist, that they made no mistake."

It's the complete denial of error that seems to be galling to the OP. Quite reasonably, IMHO.
Kenneth - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to captain paranoia:

> He doesn't seem to be implying that at all.

> "I sent pictures of received product, but they persist, that they made no mistake."

> It's the complete denial of error that seems to be galling to the OP. Quite reasonably, IMHO.

Yes, that is exactly my point. I find it quite disrespectful to basically be accused of lying, while at the same time having to put in time to return the shoes, and not being able to get the pair I wanted in the first place, since they were at a discount and now sold out.
bedspring on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to sensibleken:

>

> Isn't is standard practice to send back the item to get a refund? Even if the've shipped the wrong one?

With my customers I ask them to ship back if they just want to return.
If I have shipped the wrong thing which can happen, I apologise, I arrange collection and ship the correct thing, ASAP. Never mind the law, its the decent thing to do.
Jenny C on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to La benya:

Do the same rights apply when buying from outside the UK?

(Can't help thinking that this is why I prefer to buy in person from my local bricks and mortar shop instead of looking for cheap deals online.)
kevin stephens - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to Kenneth:

This is all part of the deal when you shop around for the cheapest price on the internet, brick and mortar shops are more expensive but with excellent service.

You pays your money and makes your choice
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Dave Kerr - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to kevin stephens:

> brick and mortar shops are more expensive but with excellent service.

That's totally not a given!


captain paranoia - on 13 Jun 2017
In reply to sensibleken:

> Isn't is standard practice to send back the item to get a refund? Even if the've shipped the wrong one?

It is.

But it's also standard practice for a retailer who f*cks up an order to admit they've f*cked up an order, and pay for return postage to cover their f*ck up. The customer should not have to pay for the retailer's incompetence.

Which brings us to the DSR. If the customer orders something, but, when it arrives, they decide it's not what they want, or it is the wrong size, then it is fair that they pay the return postage. That way, both parties accept some cost of the failed transaction (postage either way), but the goods are returned to the retailer.

If the retailer doesn't send what the customer orders, then it is entirely the retailer's problem that the customer isn't satisfied, and the retailer should pay for the return postage.

Is it fair if you order a rope, but the retailer sends you a bucket of shit? Should you have to pay to return the bucket of shit? No, of course not.
Post edited at 20:41
r0x0r.wolfo - on 14 Jun 2017
In reply to captain paranoia:

> It is.

> But it's also standard practice for a retailer who f*cks up an order to admit they've f*cked up an order, and pay for return postage to cover their f*ck up. The customer should not have to pay for the retailer's incompetence.

> Which brings us to the DSR. If the customer orders something, but, when it arrives, they decide it's not what they want, or it is the wrong size, then it is fair that they pay the return postage. That way, both parties accept some cost of the failed transaction (postage either way), but the goods are returned to the retailer.

> If the retailer doesn't send what the customer orders, then it is entirely the retailer's problem that the customer isn't satisfied, and the retailer should pay for the return postage.

> Is it fair if you order a rope, but the retailer sends you a bucket of shit? Should you have to pay to return the bucket of shit? No, of course not.

Exactly, was just about to post this sans bucket of shit analogy. Have returned slings of the incorrect diametre and had the postage refunded after pointing out CR Act 2015 rules.
Kenneth - on 14 Jun 2017
In reply to captain paranoia:

> It is.

> But it's also standard practice for a retailer who f*cks up an order to admit they've f*cked up an order, and pay for return postage to cover their f*ck up. The customer should not have to pay for the retailer's incompetence.

> Which brings us to the DSR. If the customer orders something, but, when it arrives, they decide it's not what they want, or it is the wrong size, then it is fair that they pay the return postage. That way, both parties accept some cost of the failed transaction (postage either way), but the goods are returned to the retailer.

> If the retailer doesn't send what the customer orders, then it is entirely the retailer's problem that the customer isn't satisfied, and the retailer should pay for the return postage.

> Is it fair if you order a rope, but the retailer sends you a bucket of shit? Should you have to pay to return the bucket of shit? No, of course not.

To be fair, it seems, they will pay the return shipment, but no mention in their correspondance of how the refund will work, just a return form and a link to their standard "return and refund" page on their site. No accepting guilt and apologising, no offer to send the correct item.

Furthermore after writing a bad review on trustpilot, it now seems that either they have some kind of trouble on their site, og they have closed my user account. Not sure it that is even legal (wandering).
Lemony - on 14 Jun 2017
In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:

> > But it's also standard practice for a retailer who f*cks up an order to admit they've f*cked up an order, and pay for return postage to cover their f*ck up. The customer should not have to pay for the retailer's incompetence.

Whilst this is true, and is exactly what we do. We reckon that something like 2/3 of the claims we get from customers saying we've shipped the wrong item turn out to be their mistake and we wind up charging them for the collection - which tends to lead to a lot of headaches.
nniff - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to alexm198:

> I had a similar experience with EpicTV. Essentially they sent me the wrong item (an older model), and while they were entirely happy for me to return it, they repeatedly denied that what they had sent me was an older model, despite me having confirmation from the manufacturer that the newer model actually hadn't been released yet.

> I returned them for a refund and asked them to cover postage, which they didn't. I didn't pursue it because I didn't really know my rights. The whole experience has really put me off EpicTV as a retailer.

How on earth did you expect Epic TV to send you an item that hadn't yet been released by the manufacturer? The model they sent you had, by definition, to be the current one because the one you were after was not yet available.

As a guess, they were selling the soon-to-be-replaced model at a discount and you jumped on it. Then you got the hump when you realised you were going to end up paying the full rate for the new one plus the return postage for the old. In what way is that their fault?
Dave Kerr - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to nniff:

> How on earth did you expect Epic TV to send you an item that hadn't yet been released by the manufacturer?

Perhaps the retailer had listed the product as the new model and the customer only found out it hadn't been released afterwards?
alexm198 - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to nniff:
As Dave has just pointed out, I only found out they hadn't been released in Europe after having made the purchase. I got in touch with the manufacturer because EpicTV refused to believe what they'd sent me wasn't the right model, even after I sent them photos.

The product in question was the new Black Diamond Stinger 2017. The EpicTV page from which I purchased it was not only entitled 'Black Diamond Stinger 2017', it also had the stock photo of the 2017 model. In fact, I've just had a cursory look and this page still seems to be available on the EpicTV site!

Hope that helps clear things up.

As an aside, the main difference on the 2017 model is the lack of a metal retaining strap on the front bail. When I pointed out to EpicTV that the crampons in my photo had this strap clearly visible, they informed me it was designed to be sawn off!
Post edited at 13:50
CurlyStevo - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Kenneth:

Does your epictv account and confirmation emails show that Skwama's were ordered?
nniff - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to alexm198:

Fair enough. I stand corrected and humbly apologise.
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captain paranoia - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> Does your epictv account and confirmation emails show that Skwama's were ordered?

I'm getting the impression that EpicTV are the sort who would claim their customers were lying about what they received, and trying to 'return' product they had bought elsewhere in order to get a better pair out of EpicTV...

I shall make a note to put away my long bargepole...
wert - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Kenneth:

I had a similar experience when they sent the wrong size rock shoes in a box with the right size on it.
They did refund, but I wouldn't use them again.
CurlyStevo - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to wert:
My opinion is that a for a net aware company they are acting incredibly stupidly. Maybe they aren't making the money on the adverts to cover the vids and the online shop isn't doing as well as hoped. Still this is not the way to break in to an already crowded market.

I imagine most others are similar to me that ukc is visited well over an order of magnitude more times than epictv.
Post edited at 21:30
Kenneth - on 25 Jun 2017
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> Does your epictv account and confirmation emails show that Skwama's were ordered?

Yes, of course. They just don't believe they could send the wrong item.
Timmd on 25 Jun 2017
In reply to Jenny C:
> Do the same rights apply when buying from outside the UK?

> (Can't help thinking that this is why I prefer to buy in person from my local bricks and mortar shop instead of looking for cheap deals online.)

It's hard not to see it as being like a race to the bottom to some degree, in that if people continue to look for the cheapest deals online, the people who know what they're doing re buying gear will be alright, but the people who don't will have to rely on who survives, with less diversity of shops to go to.

Which category I see myself in probably depends on what I'm buying, I guess. It's quite nice to spread things around a bit if possible & buy bits and pieces from several shops.
Post edited at 17:12

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