/ Man Trampled to Death By Cows RIP

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.
Trangia on 15 Jun 2017
I have just learned that a man was trampled to death by a herd of cows whilst out walking alone on a public footpath on the hills at Guestling, near Hastings on Tuesday. It is believed that they were in a field with calves. The victim, aged 80, was a former Oxford Don, Professor Brian Bellhouse who lived in Winchelsea about 5 miles away. An Emeritus Fellow of Magdalen College in 1997 he became an overnight multi millionaire when he invented a device for needle free injections.

Deaths from cow tramplings are more common than people realise.

Two sensible precautions are not to take a dog with you in an area where you are likely to encounter cows. Cows will chase dogs, and dogs will try to hide from them behind you, and do not get between a cow and her calf. A couple of years ago, in the same area, another man was trampled but survived, although his dog was killed.

At least 74 people have been killed in the UK by cows since 2000, so take care out here folks.
Post edited at 07:55

Stuart en Écosse - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Well said. My work occasionally requires me to enter fields with livestock. Cows are my least favourite, most of my colleagues think my wariness of cows is quite amusing. I'm happier with a bull, at least there tens to be only one or two of them, and there are no questions about keeping an eye on them, which seems much less stressful somehow. (I'm not wild about horses either.)
Dorchester on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:
Pull the udder one....
plyometrics - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Sad to hear, but far more common than most people realise.

Cows, calves and dogs can be bad combo.

Whilst many breeds can be pretty laid back, I'm always VERY cautious around Holsteins, which seem to be the loose cannons (lunatics) of the cow world.

I've had many occasions out running where convoluted routes around fields and over walls have been a far safer prospect.
bleddynmawr - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:
A man has died. friends and family are grieving, don't be a dick, now is not the time for levity.

dread-i - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

I was out with the running club last year. Crossing a field, a group of cows with calf's charged us from about 200m away. We were no where near them, and had no dogs, yet they made good go of getting to us. From then on, I've been very wary about them. I was aware that they don't like dogs, but some of them just seem a bit twitchy. I've heard that clapping hands and making a noise, so they know you're there is a good idea. But, it might make them see you as a bigger threat.
ceri - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to plyometrics:

I would be surprised if Holsteins are the main culprits. 70% of deaths involve bulls or newly calved cows. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cows-officially-the-most-deadly-large-animals-in-brit... most dairy cattle are not run with a bull and calve indoors to allow immediate removal of the calf.
Dogs are a major factor. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/inkfish/2016/02/02/how-not-to-get-killed-by-a-cow/#.WUJHLcrTXqA

Totally avoiding cattle is often impossible. It's great if there are 2 of you as one can manage the cattle whilst the other passes with the dogs. But as they say, you should let your dog take a chance.
There are limousin cattle with calves in a field by our house, i walk through with 4 dogs at least once a week. They are calm, and rarely even look at us. One day, they must have been upset. As the cattle were some way from the path, the (3) dogs were off lead. The herd came charging up, seperating my 6 month pup and chasing him onto a broken wall, knocking over my 10 yr old dog in the process. I secured the 2 older dogs and tried to get to the pup. When I tried to move the cows they threatened me. I had to go through the next field and round to rescue the pup. I'm not inexperienced with cattle and have never been so worried by them.
Next time we went there, they were fine again.
Toccata on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

It's not about experience with cattle. I also know one farmer killed by one of his own herd.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mystery-of-why-herd-of-cows-killed-animal-loving-vet-1-2298025
andyjohnson0 - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:
> At least 74 people have been killed in the UK by cows since 2000, so take care out here folks.

Thats approximately one every three months. More than I would have expected.

Out of interest, where did you find that number? Google shows it appearing in various places but with no source. I don't disbelieve it, but I do wonder how many of the deaths were farm workers. HSE data shows an average of three fatalities among farm workers farm workers every month - which is tragic and shockingly high.
Post edited at 11:04
Matt Vigg - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ceri:

I've been chased by a herd of cows twice, once with a dog and once without, neither time did they have calves. I think on both cases it was more curiosity than aggression but it wasn't very pleasant, especially the second time as they were running down a steep hill towards me and a friend. I had visions of one of them tripping and the whole lot rolling down the hill! Both times I got to a fence and jumped over it before they reached me so not sure if they would have just stopped if they had have reached me. Always feels healthy to be wary of them.
andyjohnson0 - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

I was once "aggressively followed" for a couple of miles by a heard of cows near the upper end of Worm Gill in the Lake District. They actively moved towards me in a way that, at the time, seemed coordinated and aggressive. There were no calves, but I noticed that they seemed quite thin and in poor condition. I don't know if that was a factor, but it rather changed my perception of cattle. Not an experience I want to have again.
stevieb - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to andyjohnson0:

Ceri's link has more details - 56 farm workers, 18 general public on rights of way, of whom 17 had dogs, and 17 were either lone walkers or a couple.
Bob Kemp - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:
Thanks for the reminder. I used to be quite blasé about cows, having farming relatives and growing up wandering about their farms, but it seems ignorance was bliss.

The BMC had a piece about this last year - here:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Taking-care-around-cows
Deleted bagger - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Good advice. In the Yorkshire Dales there are increasingly more cattle on the hills. The national park has placed notices giving similar advice to dog owners. Young bullocks are a nightmar. They just charge about for fun.
Dax H - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Cows don't just charge out of biligerance.
A few of the sites I visit are in cow fields (and sheep) and often when I arrive the cows come rushing over and crowd round my van.
Basically they think I am there with feed.
Following the advise from a farmer who owned some of them I now carry an old feed sack and if they crowd my various of the gate I need to do through I wave the sack about and draw them away.
Bulls Crack - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

NFU https://www.nfuonline.com/cross-sector/farm-business/farm-safety/farm-safety-news/livestock-and-righ...

Better than 'our' watered down advice on .GOV

HSE keep a watching brief on incidents
Trangia on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to andyjohnson0:
> Out of interest, where did you find that number? Google shows it appearing in various places but with no source.

It was in the Guardian report on the death

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/professor-trampled-to-death-by-cattle-in-east-sussex
Post edited at 13:24
plyometrics - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ceri:
Wasn't suggesting they were the main culprits, just that they were the breed I was, personally, most cautious of.

Indeed, out of all of the breeds I've run past in Cumbria (where I live), they are the most fractious, by some considerable margin!
Post edited at 13:38
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to bleddynmawr:

> A man has died. friends and family are grieving, don't be a dick, now is not the time for levity.

I know. How dairy try and inject some gallows humour into a terrible event.

mrbird on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Such a shame. Mustve not herd them coming.
claire14 on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:
This is not funny! My uncle died because of cows,

He choked on a large lump of steak during an eating competition.
Post edited at 14:16
99ster - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Deleted bagger:

>....Young bullocks are a nightmar. They just charge about for fun.

Yes - they are. Experienced that a couple of times & they'll all come charging over to see you in a very excited state - but then start kicking out at each other and barging. You really would not want to be kicked even accidentally by a bullock.

Worst was mountain biking down a big hill (on a bridleway) and it cut through a big gap in a tall hedge, either side, unseen were a large herd of cows. I must have startled them & they all charged me. The ground was literally shaking. I can confidently say I would have beaten Mark Cavendish in a sprint I was that terrified - only just reach the fence at the end of the field, threw the bike over the gate & dived after it. Only just made it. I'm convinced they would have killed me.

ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to claire14:

> This is not funny! My uncle died because of cows,

> He choked on a large lump of steak during an eating competition.

What a load of bull.
purplemonkeyelephant - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> At least 74 people have been killed in the UK by cows since 2000, so take care out here folks.

Humans - 74
Cows - 44,200,000

ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

> Humans - 74

> Cows - 44,200,000

They certainly put the moo in our stew
android_lloyd - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Come on dude, you're just milking it now
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to android_lloyd:

> Come on dude, you're just milking it now

Yeah. I've already mooved on.
mrbird on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

We should really steer clear of such savage beasts.
Lusk - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

If this happens to me, I know which Led Zeppelin track I want playing at my funeral.
Lion Bakes on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to mrbird:

Maybe they had some beef with him?

Tom V - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Too right. Got any Grenfell jokes?
Trangia on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

> Too right. Got any Grenfell jokes?

Well said, but the irony of your post is way beyond the ability of these pathetic and anonymously posting cowards to comprehend.
Lusk - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Oh, I'm deadly serious.

"... pathetic and anonymously posting cowards ..."

Says someone who uses the name of an aluminium based outdoor cooking system.
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> Well said, but the irony of your post is way beyond the ability of these pathetic and anonymously posting cowards to comprehend.

Ah! Cow-ards! I see what you did there...like it!
Tom V - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Lusk:

Still don't see the funny side, myself.
If it had been a climbing accident would you have adopted the same tone?
Trangia on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Ah! Cow-ards! I see what you did there...like it!

Now that is funny, because you directed your humour in that post against me and you are disagreeing with me, but where your humour plays on the misfortune of someone you don't know, and as has already been pointed out above, whose family is grieving, it ceases to be humorous it's just nasty. The best black humour is that directed against yourself, if you can still laugh at your own misfortune.

But maybe you can't see that?
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> Now that is funny, because you directed your humour in that post against me and you are disagreeing with me, but where your humour plays on the misfortune of someone you don't know, and as has already been pointed out above, whose family is grieving, it ceases to be humorous it's just nasty. The best black humour is that directed against yourself, if you can still laugh at your own misfortune.

> But maybe you can't see that?

Well to be fair, my post was directed at the person who posted a response further down the chain, not the chap who was killed.

Maybe you can't see that...
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> Now that is funny, because you directed your humour in that post against me

I'm glad I amoosed you though.

Trangia on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

You are missing the point completely whether that's deliberate or due to a lack of empathy I don't know but you have jumped onto the nasties bandwagon more than once in this thread. You've obviously missed the irony of Tom V's post, and I'm not going to continue this discussion, it's all rather distasteful.
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:
> You are missing the point completely whether that's deliberate or due to a lack of empathy I don't know but you have jumped onto the nasties bandwagon more than once in this thread. You've obviously missed the irony of Tom V's post, and I'm not going to continue this discussion, it's all rather distasteful.

I feel terri-bull. Would you rather I remooved myself from the thread?
Post edited at 20:09
plyometrics - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Sorry to see yet another informative and interesting thread derailed.
mrbird on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to plyometrics:

Not anudder one?!?!
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to mrbird:

This cud go on for-heifer.
mrbird on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Idiots and their herd mentality.
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to mrbird:

> Idiots and their herd mentality.

...churning them out all night..
mrbird on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Just have to filter out the bullocks..
Big Ger - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:
Bum steer, time we mooved on, no need to keep churning it over. To quote Bart Simpson, "Don't have a ....."
Post edited at 22:16
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Big Ger:

I'm always careful to stay out of the way of cattle when I'm out walking. A bit of camoooflage always helps.
Lion Bakes on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> I'm always careful to stay out of the way of cattle when I'm out walking. A bit of camoooflage always helps.

I tried that once, I was Friesian
Dave the Rave on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

WAnchor!;)
ads.ukclimbing.com
Lion Bakes on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> WAnchor!;)

Ouch, you trying to yogHurt me?
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

> I tried that once, I was Friesian

Haha. You've raised the steaks with that one.
Lion Bakes on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Haha. You've raised the steaks with that one.

I thought it was well done
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

> I thought it was well done

And here's me thinking you were pasture prime.
Dave the Rave on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:
> Ouch, you trying to yogHurt me?

Nope. Just mooching through some old adverts.
You're clover!;)
Post edited at 22:41
ThunderCat - on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> Nope. Just mooching through some old adverts.

> You're clover!;)

That was truly offal.
Lion Bakes on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> And here's me thinking you were pasture prime.

Nope just chewing the cud
Lion Bakes on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> That was truly offal.

Let's put that one out to pasture
Dave the Rave on 15 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> That was truly offal.

I will ruminate my offering.
Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dave the Rave:
Ok, I'll try again.

Thundercat,
Lusk,
Lion Bakes,
Mr Bird
Dave the Rave and others -
can any one of you tell me why being trampled to death by cows is a joking matter , whereas being killed by a falling serac isn't?
Post edited at 00:04
Big Ger - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

> can any one of you tell me why being trampled to death by cows is a joking matter , whereas being killed by a falling serac isn't?

Depends, who said that that was the case, moove it to an udder thread?

Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Big Ger:
Teenagers killed by shrapnel at Manchester concert. Joke material?
People stabbed to death with ceramic knives in London. Joke material?
Inhabitants of tower block burned/choked to death. Joke material?
Man trampled to death by cows. Joke material?

Obviously you and I don't have the same outlook on life and death.
Post edited at 00:55
Big Ger - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

I bow to your superior mooral nature.
Dorchester on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:
Any fan of Peter Cook or Bill Hicks will attest that dark humour predated the internet, however, and none other than Sigmund Freud addressed the topic in his 1927 essay Humour (Der Humor).
In it, the father of psychoanalysis argued that sick jokes were the mechanism by which the ego "insists that it cannot be affected by the traumas of the external world".
His analysis is shared by Dr Oliver Double, an expert in comedy at the University of Kent who believes that tackling offensive subjects can be a very effective tool of satire as well as a form of therapy.
For instance, Dr Double was in the audience for Connolly's Ken Bigley routine and argues it was a carefully-argued attack on media prurience rather than the opportunistic swipe at a family's tragedy it was portrayed as in the press.

Interesting food for thought. The other factor is the subject of cows themselves; normally docile herbivores portrayed as some how peaceful unassuming creatures who would not hurt a fly. The thought of a herd perhaps rebelling on their human masters has comic potential. Also there is some distance between the victim of the cow attack the OP mentioned and those who write on here. He mentioned He had just heard about it and no personal involvement to seemed to exist. Clearly if a poster said 'my brother is a farmer and has just been killed by cows' that would be very different.
If your question is 'is everything funny?' The answer is no, under these circumstances I think there is some leeway.
Anyway back to the puns..
Post edited at 07:29
ThunderCat - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Big Ger:

> I bow to your superior mooral nature.

Don't kowtow to him mate.
Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:

Ah, now that you mention Bigley it makes me think that there must be a few good Hillsborough jokes out there.

Anyone?
Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

OK I'll go first.

What's the difference between a cow and the Hillsborough disaster?

You can only milk a cow for a limited amount of time.

Tadaaaaa!


timjones - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:


> can any one of you tell me why being trampled to death by cows is a joking matter , whereas being killed by a falling serac isn't?

Because the cow puns are already widely known?
ThunderCat - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

Knew you'd join in eventually
Trangia on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:
I don't agree with you. There is a time and a place for dark humour. My OP was posted in Hillwalking. Professor Bellhouse was very likely a walker as he was walking in the hills behind Hastings, and the chances are that his family may well be walkers too, they might even read the Hillwalking forum. You don't know do you?

The timing of your first post was, in my opinion, inappropriate given that I had identified the victim from press reports on this forum, and I agree with bleddynmawr's reproach to you. Judging from the number of "Likes" most people agree with him.

The others have just jumped on the band wagon of inappropriate comments hiding behind the mantle of "dark humour". You are right in that dark humour can be a safety valve in adversity, but isn't that prerogative of the victim's families, not total strangers, who, let's face it, are in no way emotionally affected? It's just totally insensitive on a public forum. Dark humour is laughing at your own misfortune. not ganging up with other people to continue a relentless trade of non funny jokes in spite of others having pointed out to them how distasteful their continuing with it was becoming.

Interestingly not one of them, including you, has responded to Tom V'a comment about starting "Grenfell" jokes. Is it that you all prefer to go on running the risk of upsetting the family and friends of a single unfortunate person, than incur the wrath of many? I am quite certain that if any of you attempted to crack you pathetic puns near the Grenfell Tower right now you would be lynched.

Tom V asked some very valid questions about your reactions to a climbing accident or other awful events, yet none of you have answered him.

PS No need for the capital "H", I may be right but I'm not divine
Post edited at 09:11
mrbird on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:

Don``t butter him up with a reply mate.
Dorchester on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> I don't agree with you. There is a time and a place for dark humour. My OP was posted in Hillwalking. Professor Bellhouse was very likely a walker as he was walking in the hills behind Hastings, and the chances are that his family may well be walkers too, they might even read the Hillwalking forum. You don't know do you?

No I don't but you have made three assumptions above;
'Very likely a walker', 'chances are his family may well be walkers too', 'might even read the hill walking forum'
The odds on a close relative reading this forum and being upset fall with each one.


> Interestingly not one of them, including you, has responded to Tom V'a comment about starting "Grenfell" jokes.

It must be blindingly obvious to all but a moron this is not a suitable subject for 'jokes'

> PS No need for the capital "H", I may be right but I'm not divine

Re spelling and grammar, ' let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. (-:

Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:
So humour me and tell me why a man being killed by cows IS a suitable subject for jokes whereas Grenfell isn't.

The man killed by cows is to my mind no more of a laughing matter than, say, Mike Hall being killed by a truck while cycling in Australia.
Post edited at 11:04
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

Have a pat on the head
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Knew you'd join in eventually

Herd mentality you see
Dorchester on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:
> So humour me and tell me why a man being killed by cows IS a suitable subject for jokes whereas Grenfell isn't.

Because not everything in life is black and white*, there is a wide spectrum of what is acceptable and this is personal.

*except certain dairy herds.
Post edited at 12:00
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Big Ger:

> Depends, who said that that was the case, moove it to an udder thread?

Yep that belongs in another field

Andy Hardy on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Truly depressing reading this thread. I thought UKC was robust but usually fairly reasonable, but there are clearly more trolls around than I thought.
Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:

Which is personal?
ThunderCat - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Just for the record, I've started to walk a little bit in the hills. I would be honoured at the thought of you all taking the piss out of me if I ever get trampled to death by cows.

mrbird on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Me too. Make sure I have the theme song from bullseye played as Im laid to rest or bundled into the blaze. Watch out for those horses tho!!! Theyre even bigger killers than the cows. Take care out there folks.
summo on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

> So humour me and tell me why a man being killed by cows IS a suitable subject for jokes whereas Grenfell isn't.
> The man killed by cows is to my mind no more of a laughing matter than, say, Mike Hall being killed by a truck while cycling in Australia.

No one is actually laughing at a person being killed, you need to turn your sensitive-o-meter down a little.

For many it's a taboo subject, but we will all die, it's a fact.
Lusk - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Me too, hence my first post in this thread (in case anyone missed the point of it).
In fact, I'm going to get my Mrs, when I shuffle off this mortal coil, to come on UKC, describe my demise and ask for suitably gallow humoured tracks to play at my funeral.
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to mrbird:

Dusty bin lives
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

We also have to question your motivations for posting about a person you don't know, being killed, and naming them. Are you going to post about random people killed by motorists next, and say don't cross the road?

Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to summo:

OK so, back to Hillsborough then.....
Trangia on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

> We also have to question your motivations for posting about a person you don't know, being killed, and naming them.

Because it happened right on my doorstep in hills and footpaths I walk regularly, so a little bit more than just a random happening. It's shocked quite a few walkers in this area.

Dorchester on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Just for the record, I've started to walk a little bit in the hills. I would be honoured at the thought of you all taking the piss out of me if I ever get trampled to death by cows.

Absolutely agree, I to would be honoured if it brought a smile to a few faces.
Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:
Can we take the piss if you get knocked off your bike and killed or if someone ahead of you on a route dislodges a fridge size boulder which sees you off...

In all fairness you will probably say yes so I'll finish with one more question: if the victim in the cow trampling had been a six year old toddler would you have carried on in the same way in your pun contest?
Post edited at 17:02
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

People die in your area all the time, you didn't know him, you have no connection. So why post it here, and why post the details you did?

Dorchester on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:
I would say yes to your first question, you can take the piss.
Your second question, what if if we're a 6 year old child.? It wasn't it was an 80 year old man (taken before his time). It's blatantly obvious the two are different.

We all have different levels of comfort with these things, but I think you need to chill out a bit.


SenzuBean - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

> People die in your area all the time, you didn't know him, you have no connection. So why post it here, and why post the details you did?

My god - people dying of heart attacks and cancer have nothing to do with hillwalking, but walking on a public footpath through farmland does. Trangia wanted people to know that cows are actually fairly dangerous, which is little known.
Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:
So, at some point where the victim is aged between 6 and 80 it's OK to joke about their accidental death.
Just so I know, for future reference, could you clue me in because it's not "blatantly obvious" to me.

As for chilling out/ recalibrating my sensitive-o-meter I've just revisited the sick joke website where I got the Hillsborough joke I posted @8.32.
Ready to play any time you want.

Unless, of course, you are of the Funny Man Alan Carr mindset which is that any subject under the sun is fair game for jokes -except Hillsborough - because with time, all tragedies undergo a healing process- except Hillsborough.....
Post edited at 18:07
mrbird on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:
Pfffft theyve seen red. olé
Post edited at 18:09
L Darren - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

They make me more nervous than anything in the hills. They even look like they're up to something sinister!

When on the Yorkshire 3 peaks I refused to go over a ladder stile into a field because there were cows and bulls on the other side. One of the guys I was with called me a sissy for backing up, so when he went over the top and got chased, the rest of us jumped over and got through while the herd was distracted. It worked out quite well actually.
Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Darren:

While on a family holiday in Northumberland I went out for an evening walk and soloed a route at Spindlestones . This landed me in a field full of English Longhorns which are generally considered docile (I later found) but their appearance doesn't tally with this.
I was seriously considering downclimbing the route but dusk gave me cover and I slunk off along a hedge bottom.
TobyA on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

I would have thought that BMC linked piece above about the IIRC fell runner being killed by highland cattle about Baslow would be connection enough for many of us climbers. It was actually mentioned at Peak BMC meeting by the Eastern Moors partnership guy that they had moved cows away from that area because of the risk. I definitely felt a bit nervous around them after reading about that, and it something you sometimes come across as a climber accessing certain cliffs.
ThunderCat - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Dorchester:

> I would say yes to your first question, you can take the piss.

> Your second question, what if if we're a 6 year old child.? It wasn't it was an 80 year old man (taken before his time). It's blatantly obvious the two are different.

> We all have different levels of comfort with these things, but I think you need to chill out a bit.

What he said.
ThunderCat - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

To be fair Tom, I've been pondering all day about the nature of dark humour and to the questions you asked . I will respond in a bit if you give me a moment. Im on the phone here and it's a bugger to type. Id rather give a full answer and the laptop is easier.

Blimey, my first post on this thread and not a single cow pun.
Lusk - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Blimey, my first post on this thread and not a single cow pun.

You're not losing your moojo, are you?
ads.ukclimbing.com
Aly - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to TobyA:
That's scary, I didn't know about that.

I used to run a lot round Baslow and Big Moor and have twice been chased by the Highland Cows on the piece of moor running between the Gardom's/Curbar crossroads and White Edge, always on the footpath. I avoid cow fields as much as I can but on a moor they can appear out of nowhere and you often have limited (or no) options to get out of their way.

Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to SenzuBean:
> My god - people dying of heart attacks and cancer have nothing to do with hillwalking, but walking on a public footpath through farmland does. Trangia wanted people to know that cows are actually fairly dangerous, which is little known.

No they are not dangerous. You have far more chance of crashing your car and dying than being trampled by cows. Are you now no longer going to drive?
Post edited at 20:12
Tom V - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Thanks.
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Don't kowtow to him mate.

Don't you mean cowtow?
wintertree - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

> No they are not dangerous. You have far more chance of crashing your car and dying than being trampled by cows. Are you now no longer going to drive?

I call abuse of statistics.

I'll wager that the number of person-hours in the UK per year spent in a car far outweighs the number spent walking in close proximity to cows in a field. Orders of magnitude difference I suspect.

An hour spent in proximity to cows in a field is I suspect far more dangerous than an hour in a car on the roads. A lower death rate due to a lower population exposure does not imply a lower danger.

Further the context you are disagreeing with is a suggestion that walkers be aware of the bovine danger. An eminently sensible suggestion, after all car deaths were vastly higher until people were educated on the risks and preventative behaviour.

I'm always surprised when I see someone not instinctively aware that cows are dangerous. Anything that size and with its own mind is. I've been run at by cows more often than I've been involved in car near misses.
Post edited at 20:23
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

You soloed a route and yet you were more worried about the cows?

FactorXXX - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

No they are not dangerous. You have far more chance of crashing your car and dying than being trampled by cows. Are you now no longer going to drive?

I think you're being disingenuous here in an attempt to justify yours and others remarks in this thread.
In certain circumstances, cows are dangerous and in particular when the person has a dog and the cows have young calves. I know this, because I got severely trampled in those very circumstances: Walking dog on lead through a field of cows with calves. They got closer and I thought as with most cows, you could stamp your feet/wave your arms and they'd move away from you. They didn't. I was jostled to the floor and trampled. I'd let the dog go at this point and luckily I only had some broken ribs and severe bruising. I expected the dog to be dead, but she'd managed to get away totally unscathed.
Before that, I thought cows were peaceful and benign animals...
As this is a website for people that are likely to encounter such situations, I think any thread that raises awareness of this is a good thing. Don't you?
As for the numerous remarks, I think it's just became a feeding frenzy aimed at pissing off the OP.
SenzuBean - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

> No they are not dangerous. You have far more chance of crashing your car and dying than being trampled by cows. Are you now no longer going to drive?

Yes - but people know this already!!! You totally missed my point - that's why I mentioned heart attacks and cancer, 2 of the biggest causes of death.
They are dangerous - look up the definition if you're confused what it means (it seems you need help with comprehension).
ThunderCat - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

> Ok, I'll try again.

> Thundercat,

> Lusk,

> Lion Bakes,

> Mr Bird

> Dave the Rave and others -

> can any one of you tell me why being trampled to death by cows is a joking matter , whereas being killed by a falling serac isn't?

Hi Tom. You've probably formed the opinion of me that I'm some tosser just out to troll and wind up you and Trangia, but I have spent a good chunk of mental airtime today trying to articulate some sort of answer to your question. (but feel free to think it of me anyway, if you wish?)

I'll admit, it's not easy - I think we all 'know' instincively what is allowed, what is taboo, what is beyond the pale, what is risque, what is approaching the line and what is downright offensive and way over that line - but actually formulating it and coming up with a distinct set of rules is quite difficult. The best I can come up with is 'you just know'. In exactly the same way as I can tell you what type of music I like. I can't tell you why...'I just know'

I have a very dark sense of humour which can veer between the fairly intelligent (sometimes) to the (more often) completely puerile and stupid. Where that stems from, I have no idea. I know that one thing that has always annoyed me growing up is that my family have always had a deep seated, morbid fear of death....talking about death is completely taboo. Relatives get ill, and you hush it up, pretend it's not happening and you never discuss the actual possibility of dying. When relatives die, you grieve in private. Can you believe that my family was so repressed that even talking about life insurance was frowned upon, as if it somehow 'invited' death? And if you ever said things like 'cancer' in the house, it was pretty much a stoning offence. When I moved out, I found myself actively trying to overcompensate a little bit to undo that bad programming. If I got an ache, I would say "Meh, probably cancer" just to get a (hopefully) dark laugh. After twenty years, it's finally starting to work and my mum now just frowns when I do it, rather than making the sign of the evil eye at me. So, progress in a way.

But I'm digressing a little.

I didn't find it particularly funny to find out that a man had died. I found something amusing about the situation. I'd had a conversation a little while back with a friend at work about death and made a comment about 'heroic deaths' - how the thought of a noble death (saving a bus load of children from going over a bridge but dying in the process etc) was one thing, but how I'd probably have some sort of silly death like being killed by a sheep or a cow. So there was a resonance here.

And I'm a sucker for puns. Cow's are an immediate pun magnet. As is cheese. I can cheddar few tears telling cheese puns.

And I find something deeply amusing about cows in general. Once more, I do not know why.

I have no wish to offend friends or family of the deceased - the puns were related to the nature of the incident. Not the chap

I laughed at a joke about Stephen Hawking doing a sample on Radiohead's "Ok Computer" album but being unable to perform on MTV Unplugged. That was me laughing at the situation. I wasn't laughing at Motor Neuron disease.

I laughed at a joke about Jesus being resurrected and trying to catch a smartie in his hands (holes in hands, etc etc etc). It doesn't mean I find the agonising death of crucifixion funny.

There are routines I've heard which have made me shake my head and wrinkle my nose in distaste. Frankie Boyle joking about Downes Syndrome kids. I switched over. Beyond the pale. Someone on a stag do cracked a Madelaine Mccann joke. I put the headphones in. Unacceptable. But who was I to criticise, when I know that I've told jokes that others would find offensive?

Different strokes I guess.

You heard of Terry Schiavo? A horrendous and very divisive case. Did it stop Family Guy doing a comedy number on it? Did it bollocks. "Terry Schiavo, is kind of alive-oh". Massively offensive. But I watched it, and I smiled at the pure shiteness of the situation. Because sometimes it helps to have a dark laugh to take the sting out of a situation. Find it offensive? Switch over.

Would it be funny if a two year old was trampled to death by cows? In my opinion "absolutely not", but that's just my opinion. There will be thousands who will disagree and joke about it. If I was offended, I would leave the forum / room

Would it be funny to crack jokes about the Grenfell Towers fire? I wouldn't. But there will be thousands of people who currently are. I would find it offensive and leave the room.

It's just where my line in the sand is. Different to yours, different to theirs, different to everyone elses. I can't really give a hard and fast rule about "at what age does a person being trampled by cows become funny....10? 20? 37? 75?" Because that's not how it works

Everyone's line in the sand is different. Everyone does something that other people find offensive and in an open, public world like the internet I'm personally trying to let offence and slights wash over me without getting too stressed about it because it's a big place, and it will wear me out otherwise.

As an aside, there's a common turn of conversation that happens in the real world conversations and on forum discussions sometimes, that I find particularly distasteful. It usually starts with some story about a guy getting caught for a crime, and getting sent down for a couple of years, and usually ends with someone saying "hahaha, hope he doesn't drop the soap in the showers", to which everyone else pipes in about "not being able to sit down for a while" and there is much sniggering and nudging of elbows.

It's happened on this forum numerous times, and no one bats an eyelid. Jokes about male rape. When did they become acceptable currency? Jokes about female rape - bad, jokes about male rape, good? Really? REALLY? Massively offensive. But I shrug my shoulders because to criticise someone else poor taste and lack of sensitivity would be to make a hypocrite of myself. So I let it slide.

No one seems to have batted an eyelid about jokes an innuendos concerning male rape, yet a silly serious of puns about cows have kicked up quite a stink.

And breath, Thundercat....

Quite an epic ramble there Tom, I'm sorry. I sat down at the laptop with some nebulous set of thoughts and responses in my head and a real hope that they would coalesce into some sort of reasonable post once I'd started to type, but a long day at work and a few glasses of red wine didn't really help pull it all together.

Suppose I could summarise it by saying that I have a set of values that tells me where the boundary of what is allowed and what isn't is drawn, but that boundary line is arbitrary, hard to define and different to everyone elses. Some people are REALLY f*cking sick with MUCH different boundary lines

But let he who is without sin cast the first stone, eh?

And when did Trangia get his phd and become the world's authority on dark humour and morality?

Ok, that's really just me thinking out loud and typing. You probably think I'm even more of an arse than you did when you first start replying...but I thought I would at least try to give a reasonable and honest response rather than do the usual UKC thing of flinging insults around and starting a flame war. It's probably not answered any of your questions. If you would like to ask a more direct one (or to repeat a previous one) I'll be up for a little while longer...thought getting steadily more drunkerer.

Christ, that's a second post without a cow pun....
ThunderCat - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to FactorXXX:

> As for the numerous remarks, I think it's just became a feeding frenzy aimed at pissing off the OP.

I'll admit, there was a "tiny" bit of that from my point of view - but Trangia has that effect on me.

I'm going to bow out of this thread now - my post of a few seconds ago has used all my internet posting points for the next three months...
Big Ger - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Just for the record, I've started to walk a little bit in the hills. I would be honoured at the thought of you all taking the piss out of me if I ever get trampled to death by cows.

Yes, we'll all come to see you, in the shade of that old oak tree, as they lay you neath the green, green grass of home.
Jim Hamilton - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> At least 74 people have been killed in the UK by cows since 2000, so take care out here folks.

apparently 56 were farm workers, presumably working with stock in confined places.
Pilo - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Cows in Britain have been used and abused for too long. Time for revenge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03lKjJwUPqM
Big Ger - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:
In case anyone is unaware of it; http://www.darwinawards.com/
Post edited at 23:53
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to SenzuBean:

Only person confused is you, you must have mad cow disease

Lusk - on 16 Jun 2017
Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

Yep, out of the general public and the millions who walk through fields with cows every year only 1 person a year dies. Hardly speaks of a great danger does it.

Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to FactorXXX:

Nope you are so far wide of the mark that you are in a different valley, let alone field.

Lion Bakes on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to Lusk:

> I've been spooked by flocks of sheep in the past, those eyes ...


Sheep have been pulling the wool over our eyes for years. Not to be trusted. Look away for a moment and they'll be in your rucksack nicking your sandwiches.
Big Ger - on 16 Jun 2017
birdie num num - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Thuddercat
You're just milking this whole thread

Tom V - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:
Thanks for the most thought out reply to any post I've seen on UKC.
We'll just have to agree to differ.

Some of the cow puns were quite witty but let's not forget that they were brought about by a post concerning the death of an innocent rambler.

For my own part, I found a joke which had a jibe at the Liverpudlians' propensity to wallow in grief ( to paraphrase Boris) and make the most of it but , since it involved cows, I thought it fairly appropriate though utterly tasteless.

All square then. Seriously.
Post edited at 00:54
FactorXXX - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:
Nope you are so far wide of the mark that you are in a different valley, let alone field.

Wide of the mark in what respect?
As far as I can tell, you've offered nothing to this thread but dreary witticisms. You've totally ignored the thread topic and gone straight to telling cow jokes for no other reason than other people are doing it and why not add your own.

What is your opinion on the thread topic?
Is it a valid point? I think so, do you?
Post edited at 01:30
Darren Jackson - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to The Thread :

Good grief...
Dogwatch - on 17 Jun 2017

> It's just where my line in the sand is.

Irrelevant. People who lose loved ones may come and read these threads. That has positively happened in the past. Your personal sense of humour is neither here nor there. What matters is the possible reaction of friends and family who stumble on a thread like this.
ThunderCat - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Dogwatch:

> Irrelevant. People who lose loved ones may come and read these threads. That has positively happened in the past. Your personal sense of humour is neither here nor there. What matters is the possible reaction of friends and family who stumble on a thread like this.

Tom asked for an explanation. I gave it. It seemed rude to ignore him.
Mi|es on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Does nobody respond to cows running at them by running towards them, waving arms and shouting? I must have done this between 5-10 times over the years and it always results in the cows turning and running off to the side.
mack - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Just for the record, I've started to walk a little bit in the hills. I would be honoured at the thought of you all taking the piss out of me if I ever get trampled to death by cows.

An ode to TC...

Here lies TC
His face you'll see ne'er see ag'in
One fine day he went for a walk
And was a trampled in tha' Glen.
Tom V - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Mi|es:

I suspect a lot of the deaths are due to people trying to protect their dogs rather than letting them run away.
ThunderCat - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to mack:

> An ode to TC...

> Here lies TC

> His face you'll see ne'er see ag'in

> One fine day he went for a walk

> And was a trampled in tha' Glen.



I'm touched!

mack - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

You're welcome =)
Second verse..

And as a hundred cloven hooves
stomped him into the earth
He knew he'd get a write up
full of wit and mirth

RIP (rest in pieces) =)
FactorXXX - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Mi|es:

Does nobody respond to cows running at them by running towards them, waving arms and shouting? I must have done this between 5-10 times over the years and it always results in the cows turning and running off to the side.

I used to think that, but have a look at my post at 2043 last night for how I learnt otherwise...
Lion Bakes on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to mack:

Thunder Cat lived up to his name and went out to the thunderous applause of a 1,000 passing cows turning the earth like ploughs.

Lion Bakes on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Dogwatch:

In which case it would had been better had Trangia not named the victim or linked to the Guardian article.

Tom V - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

I disagree with Dogwatch in that I believe that if your sense of humour dictates that you can take the piss out of someone's death then you should be able to do it with a clear conscience whether or not the bereaved relatives are listening/ following the discussion.
If it's a fit subject for jokes it's fit for jokes.


Except Hillsborough.
Dorchester on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:
Great post above, I would like to write more but wine prevents it.
Lion Bakes on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:
No one is taking the piss out of the guys death but I guess you are not wordly wise enough to understand that I guess.
Post edited at 21:40
Dave the Rave on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

> No one is taking the piss out of the guys death but I guess you are not wordly wise enough to understand that I guess.

Correct. I did suggest to my own dad whose a bit blasé about advice and has been chased by cows in the past, that he didn't walk through fields of cows any longer. He said 'no, me and the dog can't run anymore'.
Thanks for the post Trangia, at least I know my dad doesn't walk through the cows anymore.
Perhaps the banter that has gone on is due to the incessant bad news and deaths recently.
This doesn't cheapen the blokes life that was trampled. It's just a human response to bad news after bad news.
mack - on 17 Jun 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Stampeding cows are bad but it could be worse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI

=)
Tom V - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:
So I'll ask again: would you have reacted with the same "banter" to the accidental trampling to death of a six year old child?
And if a similar opportunity for puns arises when a climber's death is next reported on here, will you start the ball rolling?

Post edited at 09:17
Lion Bakes on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

Yes of course, silly question. What Trangia should not have done is named the bloke and provided the details he did. He was just rubbernecking in effect.
Tom V - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

You have (cleverly in your opinion, I'm sure) sidestepped my question.
Just answer it.
Lion Bakes on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:

Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word yes. seems to me you are the one avoiding the answer. Will you promise not to post here naming any individual by name or provide details that could identify them?

mbh - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

Nonsense. The identity of the dead man and the details of the incident had been widely reported in the press. Trangia's post was welcome and useful since it highlighted the fact that this sort of thing can and does happen. Many of us face cows frequently as we walk/run through the countryside and might not imagine that they could kill us. I have been chased a few times, and yesterday backed off from entering a large field, faced with about 20 young cows crowded around the the gate.
Tom V - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Lion Bakes:

I'll make that promise when you post under your real name. Mine is always available.
ThunderCat - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to mbh:
> I have been chased a few times, and yesterday backed off from entering a large field, faced with about 20 young cows crowded around the the gate.

Totally unbidden, an image of 20 young delinquent and threatening cows, smoking ciggies and wearing leather jackets (*) sprang to mind.

(* which I suppose they were)
Post edited at 18:09
Tom V - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

(*) See, there you go again, this time upsetting the vegans.
How did your walk go?
Next time you're in that neck of the woods let me know.
Post edited at 18:21
ThunderCat - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Tom V:
> (*) See, there you go again, this time upsetting the vegans.

> How did your walk go?

> Next time you're in that neck of the woods let me know.

In terms of the walk...I got as far as greenfields, had to call in a pub for a pee and obviously felt obliged to buy a pint....which became four.

You from this neck of the woods?



Edited. Just recounted and it's actually five
Post edited at 19:09
Lusk - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

You do the drinking after the walking and get the Mrs to pick you up.
The Rams Head is a good pick up joint.
ThunderCat - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Lusk:

To be fair, dovestones is three miles from my house. Hardly worth getting in the car for
Lusk - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Here's a little number you can have a go at ...
https://gb.mapometer.com/walking/route_4034141.html
ThunderCat - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Lusk:
Actually, point 4 on that map is the pretty close to where I encountered my first peat bog. Waist deep, panicked and screamed a bit but managed to get myself out. Awesome.


Chew reservoir. It's a lovely part of the world.
Post edited at 19:35
Lusk - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Aye, I remember you saying. 4 to 5 could be well dodgy in the mist if you didn't know the route.
We got lost on the 10min walk to the road from Standing Stones in the mist once. Spent about two hours going around in circles.
You've moved out from Wythenshawe out there? Envious, me?
ThunderCat - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Lusk:

> Aye, I remember you saying. 4 to 5 could be well dodgy in the mist if you didn't know the route.

> We got lost on the 10min walk to the road from Standing Stones in the mist once. Spent about two hours going around in circles.

> You've moved out from Wythenshawe out there? Envious, me?

We did. we love it. loads of exploring to do ... Must not get sidetracked by nice pubs.....give us a yell if your in the areas...
Lusk - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

> Must not get sidetracked by nice pubs....

Haha, you're f*cked there chief, best get yourself some bigger trousers.
ThunderCat - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to Lusk:

> Haha, you're f*cked there chief, best get yourself some bigger trousers.

They're my one weakness...
Lion Bakes on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to ThunderCat:

Lucky you didn't get stoned

iusedtoclimb - on 16:37 Mon
In reply to Tom V:

I had a scary encounter in Anglesey with some cows and my 7 year old.

We were camping and went for a walk with the dog. On our way back a herd of cows blocked our way and came for us. We had to climb through a barbed wire hedge. It was scary as there was no way my daughter would be able to out run them. Luckily we were by a gap in the hedge!
Interestingly the dog didn’t hesitate to leg it. So much for protecting his master!!!
TobyA on 17:18 Mon
In reply to iusedtoclimb:

Someone hurt by cows yesterday while marshalling a fell race in the Peak. Edale MRT were called out, it was on their Facebook. A dog involved again it seems.
Dave the Rave on 17:29 Mon
In reply to iusedtoclimb:

> I had a scary encounter in Anglesey with some cows and my 7 year old.


> Interestingly the dog didn’t hesitate to leg it. So much for protecting his master!!!
The poor dog possibly saved your lives.

Ridge - on 19:33 Mon
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> The poor dog possibly saved your lives.

Yep. My lurcher is smart enough to leg it and quick enough to fairly easily outrun the herd. The last thing you want is a dog 'defending' you with cows about.

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.